Enjoy the Undercarriage of a Bus, Orien

by Ziller on Nov 6, 2007 7:34 AM PST in Commentary Comment 20 comments

I'm not one of these yahoos who will sit around and yell about how "NBA players don't respond to criticism! You've got to coddle them!" There's no generalization to be made about motivating people -- grown men, impressionable youths, little girls, prison inmates; if we knew a fool-proof cure for motivation, there'd be no such thing as FreeCell, blogs, or coffee breaks. We'd all be under the effects of some government gassing which forced us into a subconscience persistent productive state.

But Reggie Theus' print attack on Orien Greene seems entirely misplaced.

Coach Reggie Theus said he provided free-agent guard Orien Greene an opportunity to run the team, and it wasn't embraced.

"The real side of that was I gave him the ball, and I didn't think he embraced it," Theus said of Green, who started the first two games. "I didn't see that burning desire. I know if it was me, I'd have been slobbering at the mouth. I'd have been like a rabid dog, and I didn't see that."

I hesitate to call two six-minute stints to open games an opportunity. Even if you do, look at the first half of the only winnable game on the trip: The Kings outscored New Orleans 21-16 in nine first-half minutes with Greene was in the game, and were outscored 41-21 in 15 first-half minutes with Greene on the bench. Offense is a problem for this team, yes. Defense is a problem for this team, also. Is there any freaking question -- especially after The J.J. Barea Experience -- Greene isn't the best choice on defense for the point guard position? (82games.com says the defense is 20 points per 48 minutes better when Greene's on the floor.) And he's not killing the offense (he doesn't shoot when he shouldn't and hasn't turned it over much); it's clearly the front court which has dragged this down by failing to convert deep, failing to grab any offensive rebounds or hold onto the ball, and... just failing in general.

If you're going to start Francisco Garcia because he holds more value to the franchise and you think he gives you a better chance to outscore the Sonics, say that. Blaming a rabid PG (whose weakness is running an offense) for being patient and calm on offense, looking for the right play instead of the first play is ridiculous. We know Greene can play rabid defense. His concern is not making mistakes on offense. Do you really want your point guards to feel as if they need to be deranged on offense? Really?

This lack of logic and/or common sense does not bode well. I love Francisco and hope he keeps gunning away... but Theus hasn't given Greene a chance.

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Re: Enjoy the Undercarriage of a Bus, Orien

I agree with your statements and it hard to argue with numbers. The kid really has had a short leash. I can only think that perhaps in practice Mr. Green isn't giving Reggie whatever it is he is obviously looking for from Orien. I feel bad for him but I feel good that Cisco will be getting the minutes instead (if that is the case).

by Mityt on Nov 6, 2007 7:43 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

Re: Enjoy the Undercarriage of a Bus, Orien

I think what Reggie is saying is that in the NBA, you can't be a scared (read patient) point guard and succeed. In Reggie's mind that is. Reggie was a 20 point, 10 assist guy. He took the ball and did something with it. That's what he wants and expects from his PG. Right or wrong, that's what he wants. Orien may not be that type of PG but Reggie wants to see him try. He doesn't want a passive PG on offense. He wants a Steve Nash, Tony Parker type. Is Greene that type? No, but I think Reggie is saying that he didn't even try to be.

That's my take.

He can shoot, and he looks great in a suit. Hey, everybody - It's REGGIE TIME!

by dalt99 on Nov 6, 2007 8:20 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

Re: Enjoy the Undercarriage of a Bus, Orien

Countdown to team mutiny in 10, 9, 8...

by Carl on Nov 6, 2007 8:31 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

comments like that scream 'college coach'

Unfortunately the Kings aren't stocked with rookie contract players, otherwise that stuff may work.

http://www.blogabull.com

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Nov 6, 2007 8:38 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

Re: Enjoy the Undercarriage of a Bus, Orien

Whethee Orien gave him what he was looking for or not I would have preferred to heear him say, "I started Francisco because I can't remember the last time three Kings starters scored 20+ points in one game." Or even, "Flaco started because he's done the due dilligence to deserve a shot at running this team." Common now Hang Time, show some love.

by NYCFan on Nov 6, 2007 8:52 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

Re: Enjoy the Undercarriage of a Bus, Orien

There was a significant amount of risk involved in starting an inexperienced player like Greene. Summer leaguer play, pre-season games and pracrice sessions do not equate to success in a regular season game.

It may have been embarrassing enough to Greene to be pulled out so quickly but to be criticized publically was totally unfair.

In the back of their minds I think players appreciate the fact that their coach has NBA experience. However, I don't believe they like hearing about it from the coach. Players will stick together in most instances. They observe how teammates are treated and it doesn't set well with them when someone is "called out." So, I hope Reggie will learn something from this mistake.

by aspen on Nov 6, 2007 8:55 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

Re: Enjoy the Undercarriage of a Bus, Orien

i agree with everybody's perspective, theus made it seem like he was handing the ball to a blue-chip point guard of the future on a team with an established offense. instead of realizing he was giving it to a defensive-minded journeyman on a team with possibly the most non team-oriented offense in the nba.

Whether your dominating the playground, the last one to leave the gym, or your big time like Mike Bibby...

by CrownUs93 on Nov 6, 2007 9:08 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

Re: Enjoy the Undercarriage of a Bus, Orien

Two things struck me about this incident:

Reggie's earlier comments about his PG being "an extension of me." So, I think Dalt's comments are germane to this discussion.
Reggie's enjoyment of hearing himself speak, and the obvious admiration he has for himself. I think this will not be the last time that Reggie chooses his words poorly.

Reggie reminds me of another Reggie that I used watch hit home runs when I was little kid.

by Kusian on Nov 6, 2007 9:50 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

Re: Enjoy the Undercarriage of a Bus, Orien

The real issue here is Reggie's love of Reggie. In this very young season, how many times have we heard him tout his play while disparaging the team's? Great that he's so self confident, but until he suits up and gives us the 20 and the 10, he'd better think of a different way to motivate his players.

by Snakes in the Trees on Nov 6, 2007 10:10 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

Re: Enjoy the Undercarriage of a Bus, Orien

... if we knew a fool-proof cure for motivation, there'd be no such thing as FreeCell, blogs, or coffee breaks.

I don't know of anything more motivating than watching 52 cards swept away with a satisfying shuffling sound.

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by jgurney on Nov 6, 2007 10:14 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

Re: Enjoy the Undercarriage of a Bus, Orien

I have liked everything that Theus has done thus far. I think the criticism of Greene is fair but I would not have spoken to the media about it. The Kings have two positions that are yielding them absolutely nothing. Greene has kind of gotten off the hook with us as a community because Kenny Thomas and Mikki Moore; more proven veterans, have been so bad that we have no choice but to scream.

Greene has scored a total of 4 points, he has 2 rebounds and 2 assists through 3 games averaging 14 minutes per. He has more turnovers (5) and fouls (7) than points. Sure, Greene is a defensive player but let's be real. The Kings are the worst team in the NBA so far this season. The first two games of the season their stating point guard and power forward positions combined for 4 points (total). Kenny Thomas has already lost his job and last time I checked Greene is getting payed for a job.

I think we were all hoping that Greene would be a defensive stopper off the bench and a fun guy in the mold of Maurice Evans but so far he has been a disappointment overall. With Beno coming in Greene's days appear to be numbered. Maybe that will light a fire under his ass but Theus is right, Greene just got handed a starting point guard position in the NBA; what better motivation could you have.

I hope Theus is fair about this and tells the press how bad Mikki Moore, Kenny Thomas and Quincy Douby have been. But I think maybe Theus is picking on a guy with a non-guaranteed contract so when Greene doesn't respond he will be made an example for the others when he is waived.

We are slipping into the NBA abyss.

by jjham15 on Nov 6, 2007 10:24 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

Re: Enjoy the Undercarriage of a Bus, Orien

i agree. theus has the right idea, but chose a really poor execution. he should not have said it to the media.

however, Orien really didn't embrace it. he was limited in his minutes due to fouls and turnovers. i think Theus wanted him to embrace it by being aggressive, which he really wasn't. maybe on defense, but he ended up fouling too much. i don't want a point guard who is afraid. i know he's not a great offensive player, but he needs to at least try so that he can develop some confidence. these first 7 games are a chance to make some dumb mistakes and learn from them. no one's really expecting many wins with Bibby and Artest out. this is the time for Greene to go balls out and show what he is or isn't capable of and how he can make up for it.

by vfettke on Nov 6, 2007 10:34 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Enjoy the Undercarriage of a Bus, Orien

I think what Theus failed to realize is that motivation and experience have no connection whatsoever. Motivation without experience could actually be counterproductive.

by kingsfaninjapan on Nov 6, 2007 10:31 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

Re: Enjoy the Undercarriage of a Bus, Orien

Did Reggie go about his dis-satisfaction wrong? Yes, he did. Is Reggie desperate to prove he's got strong chops making this team better? I think so. He clearly thinks he's the missing link to this team getting better. Right now I think his college motivation is misplaced if only because of Orien Greene being who and what he is. The question of this season was not whether the team would improve upon the dis-satisfying 2006-07 season but whether the adjustment of various players could be made and foreshadowed in the long haul. I have a feeling this isn't the last of Reggie's diatribes.

I am the stone that the builder refused I am the visual, the inspiration That made Lady Sing the Blues..I'm the spark that makes your idea bright...

by pookeyguru on Nov 6, 2007 1:23 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Re: Enjoy the Undercarriage of a Bus, Orien

Orien Greene may not be the cure, but he sure as hell ain't the problem. You must be at least 6'7" to be the problem(s) on this team. Besides, the phrase "cower guard" just does not work.

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by section214 on Nov 6, 2007 1:29 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Re: Enjoy the Undercarriage of a Bus, Orien

How about Point Tuard?

by Kfan in Korea on Nov 6, 2007 2:38 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Enjoy the Undercarriage of a Bus, Orien

This could be a long season... Orien hasn't been Steve Nash, but when I have a feeling that I could get more balls into the hoop from the PF position then K9 (I am 6'-0" and can't jump) I really don't think its fair to yell at a D-Leaguer.

by moproblemz on Nov 6, 2007 1:36 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Re: Enjoy the Undercarriage of a Bus, Orien

To todays players, most have not concept of what there coaches were like as players, and when they here them drone on about what it was like when they played, they will start to tune him out

I feel bad for Greene, he wants to make the most of his shot, he knows the window is small, if he is to aggressive, thats bad and if he is to passive and tries to be too careful thats bad too as any mistake and you end up on the bench. I think thats what has happened. Mix that in with a poor performing team and he is in a tough - no win situation

by Murf on Nov 6, 2007 1:44 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Re: Enjoy the Undercarriage of a Bus, Orien

I think this is a lesson learned by Reggie. He probably now knows how the media will pick up one off comment and go nuts with it only because it hurts someone. I see him being much more careful and diplomatic in the future.

BTW, I was a vocal supporter for Greene getting the shot at starting PG but Theus basically summed up my feelings on him now. I know Greene is kicking himself now because he was given a golden opportunity and pissed it off with timid play.

Theus made the correct decision in starting Garcia instead. Good for Cisco in making good on the opportunity. His stock has increased greatly.

by KingsFan on Nov 6, 2007 1:48 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

On Orien Greene

TZ,

Definitely in agreement with you on your point regarding Theus -- it certainly appears from the statistics you provide that his comments don't make a ton of sense. As a Celts diehard, though, I certainly have my own reservations about Greene.

Admittedly, I haven't watched much of the Kings this year, and if he has improved, more power to him. But for the large quantity of minutes he received in Boston during the miserable 33-win campaign of 2005-06, there was absolutely no progress made. He was a complete black hole offensively who was billed as a defensive stopper who couldn't harness his energy will enough to play focused defense. Watching him regularly was awful enough that I've referred to him at times since as the worst pro ball player I've seen play the game. When his career in Boston ended after he wound up in some trouble for doing 90 on a city street, there weren't too many tears shed among the faithful.

All the same, he was a rookie then and the fact that he could have grown as a player since then isn't something to rule out. Your description of him as an offensive liability who makes the team much better defensively sounds exactly like what the Celtics thought they were getting when they drafted him in the first place. However, it's my contention that this would be his ceiling. So far as I can tell, he doesn't have any of the skills needed to become an adequate starting point guard in this league.

But I've been wrong before, and I'll be wrong again, so who knows? As someone who watched the man play more times than I'll ever care to remember two seasons ago, guess I just wanted to put my two cents in.

Thanks for the time, and I'm looking forward to reading more here.
-sw

by Steve Weinman on Nov 7, 2007 9:23 AM PST reply actions 0 recs