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The Beno kool-aid

I think we can all agree that Beno's producing about 70-80% of what Bibby would be, and for a significantly cheaper price. It makes sense then, if our season is going nowhere by the trade deadline, to trade Bibby on the cheap for whatever you can get. (Hey, that Miami #1 and J-Will doesn't look too bad right now, right?)

But Udrih's not a long-term solution by any means. I know we have a really small sample size this year (he's only played in 14 games and only started in 12) but he's posting a 15/3.5/4 this year in 35 minutes per game. I'd like those numbers from a shooting guard maybe, but not a point. It's pretty difficult to have a winning team when your point guard is only having 4 assists a game. Hell, Ron "I'll take any shot" Artest is leading the team in assists. Not a real good sign.

Do I think he's a good player? Yeah. But we're going to need a better passer at the point to bring our team to the next level. The obvious choice would be to take Rose/Mayo in the lottery but I don't think we'll be that bad. Maybe we could even get a stopgap point guard who passes better. There's even one that would be available who has 5.6 assists per game over 33 minutes per game. Not fantastic, but better than what we've got. We could even have a little change of pace - Udrih to score, and this guy to feed the big guys and K-Mart.

Who, you ask? Well...as I said, J-Will and that Miami #1 doesn't look so bad right now.

(This is a FanPost from a member of the Sactown Royalty community. The views expressed come from the member, and not Sactown Royalty staff.)

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Beno Is a Decent Passer
Actually, I think that Beno IS a better passer than his stats indicate. Even though he is the PG, most of the offense is run through post-ups and isolations by Artest and Salmons. That is why Artest has so many assists. When Beno does penetrate and dish, many times it's to Artest or Salmons on the perimeter. They then procede to try and go one-on-one instead of shoot the three or long two. Also the Kings don't play a wide open offense that teams like Denver, Phoenix and Golden State run. If Beno was on those teams and playing 35 minutes a game he would be averaging near 7 assists a game most likely.
He can shoot, and he looks great in a suit. Hey, everybody - It's REGGIE TIME!

by dalt99 on Dec 12, 2007 8:51 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

true, but
still, he's not even in the top 50 in the NBA in APG. I understand that our offense tends to stagnate at times (a lot of isolation, big men stalling at the top of the key, etc.) but I think a more effective passer would help to open the offense up and take the opporunities that are there.

by coachtheus on Dec 12, 2007 9:39 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

But...
I have not seen enough of Beno yet to determine whether his assist numbers are low because of him or because of the type of offense that The Kings employ. There is an awful lot of one on one play in our offense, and that's not always a bad thing when it's Kevin or Salmons taking his man off the dribble. But it seems that our overall offensive sets are formulated to run through Brad and Ron, and as a result they get a decent portion of our assist numbers. Put another way, we just don't run our offense like Utah or New Orleans or New Jersey or Phoenix, where the point guards handle the ball a ton more per offensive set. If there were a way to break down assists per seconds with the ball pehaps Beno would fare a little better statistically.

This is not to say that he is the long term answer at point guard. I'm just not ready to rule out the possibility yet. That said, if Rose or Mayo were available you'd have to grab them. But as I mentioned in an earlier thread, Udrih is probably good enough that you don't have to reach for Jarreyd Bayless, Darren Collison or Ty Lawson. Keep Beno and draft a big instead.

SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Dec 12, 2007 8:57 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

For crying out loud, dalt!
You could have posted a minute faster and then I could have just said "ditto."
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Dec 12, 2007 8:58 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Sorry
Well, I did at least let you add the second paragraph which I did NOT cover in my post. So, to that second paragraph, I will say "ditto"!
He can shoot, and he looks great in a suit. Hey, everybody - It's REGGIE TIME!

by dalt99 on Dec 12, 2007 9:11 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I think...
Even if we are in playoff contention we should ship Bibby to Cleveland or Miami for a package that includes Drew Gooden or Udonis Haslem and a no. 1.

I think Drew is the perfect complement with Brad along with Mikki coming off the bench.

Eric Snow, Damnon Jones, Drew Gooden and Ira Newble + #1 pick for Bibby, Kenny Thomas anyone?

I'd do that deal.

The Sacramento Kings: Where Amazing Happens!

by kingme18 on Dec 12, 2007 9:00 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

70-80%?
I'd argue that Beno gives us closer to 100% of what Bibby would, maybe more.

Let compare Bibby last season with Beno this year:

Bibby: 34 mins, 5.7-14.2 FG, .404 FG%, .360 3P%, 1.1 STL, 2.4 TO, 4.7 AST, 17.1 PTS.

Beno: 35 mins, 5.7-12.6 FG, .455 FG%, .382 3P%, 1.3 STL, 2.4 TO, 4.1 AST, 14.9 PTS.

Pretty similar.

You might argue that Bibby just had an off year, but I see it as more of a continuation of a downward trend over the last few seasons.

But Bibby was coming off a preseason injury, as is Beno. Beno is also learning a new system and new teammates, so I'd expect his play to improve as the season goes on.

I also think Beno gives us more on the defensive end, if for no other reason than he has younger legs.

Is he our future, I don't know. Should we trade Bibby? Yes. I say move Bibby for any one or more of the following, Prospect, Cap space, draft picks.

I don't disagree with your diary, just wanted to add some punch to the Kool-Aid.

by Kfan in Korea on Dec 13, 2007 4:23 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Agree, Agree, Agree
Well said, Kfan.  Beno is giving us (IMO) in excess of what Bibby did, if you figure the defensive end into the equation.  

I like the ability Beno has to break down the defense off the dribble - it may not be showing up currently in the assist numbers, but I have a feeling it will once this team feels more comfortable in Theus' offense.

The one stat that stands out to me?  The field goal percentage. It's nice to have a PG that goes to the hole and actually finishes, even amongst the tall timber.

And Beno is four years younger than Bibby, and should only get better as he gets more PT.

Is Beno the long-term solution? My guess is yes, if we can resign him.

by otis29 on Dec 13, 2007 6:40 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Agreeing with Otis?
I Agree, Agree, Agree to your a Agree, Agree, Agree. Beno certainly makes Bibby expendable. Before the season started a lot of folks here at StR wanted a Bibby trade and the Kings to give Garcia and Salmons a chance at the point. I argued that Garcia and Salmons were not the answer which I believe has been proven. Beno possesses the point guard skill set that the Kings need to move forward. Salmons and Garcia are valuable as 2's and 3's. It took 2 games for Garcia to lose his starting spot to Beno and now they are both finding their niche on the team.
We are slipping into the NBA abyss.

by jjham15 on Dec 13, 2007 8:34 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

You deserve credit on that
It's true you deserve props for saying Salmons/Garcia could run this team (if at all). But the bigger point was not to see if they were the answer but to move on from Bibby which the team has yet to do.

Beno possesses the point guard skill set that the Kings need to move forward. Salmons and Garcia are valuable as 2's and 3's. It took 2 games for Garcia to lose his starting spot to Beno and now they are both finding their niche on the team.
Well said as it's true. But it's also equally true that the Kings need to move Artest as well for similar reasons (although they need to get a higher return for him than Bibby).
I am the stone that the builder refused I am the visual, the inspiration That made Lady Sing the Blues..I'm the spark that makes your idea bright...

by pookeyguru on Dec 13, 2007 8:46 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Beno Koolaid
I think it's evident the Kings should look to move Bibby. For what kind of return that remains to be seen. However, that being said Beno remains a large reason why. Whether the Kings should hope to get Derrick Rose in the lottery, and they should, it's still obvious Beno has something to bring to the table regardless of who you draft. It is conceivable that Rose takes a year or two to make an adjustment before realizing his own talent. In the meantime you still have to try and win games I would think.

One of the positives is that Beno is scoring at a more efficent rate and with less shots. I don't think it's a coincidence other players scoring have gone up with Beno. He simply has gotten the ball to the other players in better spots than Bibby has in the past.

I am the stone that the builder refused I am the visual, the inspiration That made Lady Sing the Blues..I'm the spark that makes your idea bright...

by pookeyguru on Dec 13, 2007 7:15 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Another thing that's helping matters
is that Artest & Bibby can't be fighting for control of the team. I think that's one reason the team lost so many close games at the end last season.
I am the stone that the builder refused I am the visual, the inspiration That made Lady Sing the Blues..I'm the spark that makes your idea bright...

by pookeyguru on Dec 13, 2007 7:41 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Fighting for control...
The last four games have been miserable to watch without Martin. Some one needs to step up and tell Artest to pass the f#$%ing ball. Ron is 25-75 from the field and a whopping 1-18 from behind the arc during this stretch. He is trying to do way to much and costing the Kings any chance to win.
We are slipping into the NBA abyss.

by jjham15 on Dec 13, 2007 8:45 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

As compelling as this team is
Artest and Bibby don't rank in the top 10 in the category for most compelling reasons to watch this team. While most are aware of my disaffection for the Bibbster, it's also true that I've never been a big fan of Artest either. That being said before the season if there were 10 reasons to compel me to watch this team Ron would be one of them. Hell I would have said that 3 weeks ago (it's in fact partly why I bought League Pass). No longer.
I am the stone that the builder refused I am the visual, the inspiration That made Lady Sing the Blues..I'm the spark that makes your idea bright...

by pookeyguru on Dec 13, 2007 8:48 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Unfortunately
I agree with you.  Artest is falling back into the pattern he had last year. My guess is that even after Kevin comes back it will always be a fight to get Ron-Ron to control himself within the confines of the offense.

by otis29 on Dec 13, 2007 9:16 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

And when I say "unfortunately"
That's no swipe at you. :)

It was more wishful thinking that Artest could harness his ego enough to allow his immense talent to shine in this offense.

by otis29 on Dec 13, 2007 9:17 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

We are all in agreement...
I think we hoped Salmons could step in a the Kings might be ok without Martin but dude only got 8 shots last night. You want to pull for Artest but he just frustrates you every time he is given a big opportunity. The ego is a funny thing. Theus has a battle on his hands.
We are slipping into the NBA abyss.

by jjham15 on Dec 13, 2007 9:35 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

more beno
the more good players you have the better, and the more versitile is even more valuable, assuming you have a coach who can get those skills on the floor.  All players have differing skill sets, its not like they are cookie cutter players, in that there are very few players who can do everything well.  I read one of Tommie Heinsons books years ago and he was talking about Jo Jo White (if memory serves me), he was a two guard who was a great rebounder and defender but couldn't shoot, but as coach he needed to put him in a position to help the team win.  In some ways in the Kings can play well (which they seem to of late, and win with Beno not racking up huge assist numbers who cares

by Murf on Dec 13, 2007 12:13 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Tommy was a good coach
but I wonder who it was ghost written by.
I am the stone that the builder refused I am the visual, the inspiration That made Lady Sing the Blues..I'm the spark that makes your idea bright...

by pookeyguru on Dec 13, 2007 1:54 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Beno's love in
Beno is the second coming of Jesus...I know, but what if he goes down? There still is no viable backup at PG if Beno is proven to be a starter. Please don't tell me Douby or Garcia as they are not PGs. I suppose it is always easy enough to give guys like Orien a shot but we have had a revolving door lately at the backup point. Quite honestly I think we have solved that problem and his name is Beno Udrih. Now if we can only get a starter. I personally hope Mike comes back and tears it up (not too hopefull sniff sniff). Alternatively I would like to see him traded for J-Will and a pick. Either situation nets us a starting PG and, I think, will make Beno a stronger commodity off of the bench. Then, when Bib or JW gets injured (like they BOTH will gauranteed) he can come in and give servicable minutes.

by Mityt on Dec 13, 2007 1:59 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Beno ! Beno! Beno
Beno is quickly making Quincy Douby expendable in the backup spot. If some team were looking to beef up that position with scoring I would take a look at the kid. Personal opinion.
I am the stone that the builder refused I am the visual, the inspiration That made Lady Sing the Blues..I'm the spark that makes your idea bright...

by pookeyguru on Dec 13, 2007 2:03 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Are you talking about NBDL teams or Euro teams?
Douby is just not NBA talent. Comparing Martins' numbers or Cisco's numbers doesn't make any sense. Both Martin and Garcia have NBA bodies and natural positions. Douby has neither. Not everyone makes it, hell you and I both Pookey would give up our left nut to play one NBA game (as long as we got the game check). I don't see QD getting another contract after this.
We are slipping into the NBA abyss.

by jjham15 on Dec 13, 2007 3:31 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

He's a NBA talent
Just not necessarily the right fit for this team at the moment.
I am the stone that the builder refused I am the visual, the inspiration That made Lady Sing the Blues..I'm the spark that makes your idea bright...

by pookeyguru on Dec 13, 2007 3:43 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Douby
Dude has 620 NBA minutes under his belt, the equivalent of 15.5 games at 40 minutes per. I'm not ready to pass judgment yet.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Dec 13, 2007 7:24 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

That's especially true because he plays
with so many passing challenged players.
I am the stone that the builder refused I am the visual, the inspiration That made Lady Sing the Blues..I'm the spark that makes your idea bright...

by pookeyguru on Dec 13, 2007 7:29 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

no surprise
The Spurs drafted Beno. That should be an indicator about how good this guy is. If you take a look at some of the Spurs previous drafts, starting with Beno and going back, you come across some straight ballers. And most were late first round picks too! Here's the list:

Beno Udrih
Leandro Barbosa
John Salmons(yup!)
Luis Scola
Tony Parker
Manu Ginobili

The Spurs know what they're doing! So I say stay with Beno, the Spur draft pick.

by kingsfaninjapan on Dec 13, 2007 3:34 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Those are the highlights
Salmons was wanted by Philly; as was Barbosa by the Suns. Scottie Pippen was drafted by the Sonics. Does that mean that Seattle has had a great draft history?
I am the stone that the builder refused I am the visual, the inspiration That made Lady Sing the Blues..I'm the spark that makes your idea bright...

by pookeyguru on Dec 13, 2007 3:44 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

okay
So reduce the list to:

Udrih
Scola
Parker
Ginobili

and you have a two time all star, a finals mvp, and another all star. The point is the Spurs know talent and they always seem to get it with late first round picks. We all know Parker and Ginobili are up their on the list at their positions. Scola's still new to the NBA, and now Udrih is an early candidate for MIP.

by kingsfaninjapan on Dec 13, 2007 3:56 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

The spurs organization is great
Was that up for debate?
I am the stone that the builder refused I am the visual, the inspiration That made Lady Sing the Blues..I'm the spark that makes your idea bright...

by pookeyguru on Dec 13, 2007 4:28 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Nope.
Whether Beno is a legit long term starter is the debate. Just stating that the great Spurs organization saw something in him, which should give him some more credibility.

by kingsfaninjapan on Dec 13, 2007 4:52 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

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