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All These Rumors Bogus?

RotoRob thinks so.

First of all, with Minnesota in a clear rebuilding mode following the Kevin Garnett trade, and the Clippers losing Elton Brand, Sacramento has a very good opportunity to make a run for the playoffs next year, so contrary to what most believe, the Kings are not absolutely in a rebuilding mode.

Having said that, if they were to be tempted into a full-scale rebuilding program, J-Will wouldn't exactly be the prize that would make them head in that direction. The reported offers from the Knicks (that involve expiring contracts in return for Artest) similarly wouldn't make the Kings budge.


There are two problems with this argument.
  1. Neither Minnesota nor the Clippers made the playoffs last year. They both finished ahead of Sacramento, and the resulting trades/injuries should drop them below Sacramento. But that doesn't really make the Kings -- who won 33 games, for Pete Chilcutt's sake -- any closer to postseason glory.
  2. The Kings are in rebuilding mode. Geoff Petrie has said so. I think the relevant quote would be: ""If we want to get into the situation here where you have real (salary) room, you have to curtail some of the team's spending and gather enough contracts expiring to create that room. ... Potentially, on a two-year horizon, we can naturally arrive there." Petrie is rebuilding, and he's said he'll use expiring contracts -- internal and external -- to get there.
It does look like Bibby and Artest will get to hang out come October. But it won't be because Petrie doesn't want to trade one or both. It will be because nothing offered really works out in Petrie's plan.

(Some would argue Petrie doesn't really have a plan right now, but I don't buy it.)

0 recs  |  Comment 34 comments

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Re: All These Rumors Bogus?
The other dead giveaway that this is off-season smoke-without-fire reporting is that these rumours are being started by the local papers in Miami and New York; the Sacramento Bee - which offers very fine coverage and definitely stays on top of all team happenings - isn't legitimizing these rumours with any coverage. That tells me they know this is bogus.
Ummm, call me cynical but who knows what goes on in Lord Geoff's brain? Does anybody know when he's about to make a trade?

As far as rotorob who knows where that statement is true. It looks like Artest/Bibby are here until Petrie can get what he WANTS for each. And who knows what that is.

And if Petrie turned down Haslem/Williams for Bibby and Jones/Dickau/Balkman for Artest he would be stupid. That's good trade value that allows you to move forward quickly without sacrificing any cap room down the road.

DISCLAIMER: EQUAL TRADE VALUE DOESN'T EXIST.

I am the stone that the builder refused I am the visual, the inspiration That made Lady Sing the Blues..I'm the spark that makes your idea bright...

by pookeyguru on Aug 20, 2007 8:47 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: All These Rumors Bogus?
I got an addendum to this. Trading Bibby for Williams Doleac and Wright seems to make better sense as all 3 expire (Wright is a restricted FA) in 08.
I am the stone that the builder refused I am the visual, the inspiration That made Lady Sing the Blues..I'm the spark that makes your idea bright...

by pookeyguru on Aug 20, 2007 8:49 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: All These Rumors Bogus?
Here's the thing. Bibby becomes even more valuable next year as an expiring contract, providing he doesn't have another year like last year. Since Petrie has already said the big move takes place in a couple of years, getting out from under Bibby's contract this year really does not do anything for the Kings. And whatever Bibby's value is today, it will be much greater come the trade deadline, providing he is playing reasonably well. I think that is when contending teams will be offering young talent and draft picks, which is what we really want and need.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Aug 20, 2007 9:01 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: All These Rumors Bogus?
Yep it's hard to argue BUT let me throw some things out there. The longer you wait to trade a player the harder it can be particularily when teams know they can ream you on a deal. Remember when Iverson got traded and the speculation was that Philly didn't get ENOUGH back? The idea that you can get more based upon a deadline is something of a farce as I've observed that very argument over the years. I remember when that argument was applied to Gary Payton being traded to Milwaukee in 2003. I don't think Seattle won that trade even with the 1st rounder coming back.
I am the stone that the builder refused I am the visual, the inspiration That made Lady Sing the Blues..I'm the spark that makes your idea bright...

by pookeyguru on Aug 20, 2007 9:08 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: All These Rumors Bogus?
Agreed, though your examples are a little different in as much as Iverson and Payton flat had to go, while Bibby has made no trade demands and has really not been a distraction off the court. I just wonder if Petrie is looking at next year's free agent market and thinking that Bibby's contract would come in handy on a sign and trade (Gilbert Arenas, anyone?). If Theo Ratliff had value in getting the Garnett deal done, what would Bibby's worth be? By the way, I would prefer that Artest and Bibby be gone and let's get the rebuilding process going. I'm just trying to understand Petrie's mind set
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Aug 20, 2007 9:16 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: All These Rumors Bogus?
You're right the example was stretched a tad thin. My point is that teams will deal for what they want to deal for. Either they'll deal or they won't for a player depending on what they perceive that value to be. And everything I've said could be whatever level of truth it actually is.

I agree about figuring out Petrie's mindset. The problem is trying to do so is sort of like kicking yourself in the ass 800 times. After awhile all you got is a sore ass and not much else. This is all speculation and opinion at this point (obviously) but I don't see how the Kings lose, particularily when you talk about the speculation of what they could get in future deals which is often bullshit, with making either deal I mentioned. I'm not a believer of making a deal to make a deal but I definitely am a believer that making a deal is not entirely dependent on the "player" you get back.

I am the stone that the builder refused I am the visual, the inspiration That made Lady Sing the Blues..I'm the spark that makes your idea bright...

by pookeyguru on Aug 20, 2007 9:53 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: All These Rumors Bogus?
I don't buy the mid season value argument a bit.  A lot of folks thought those same players were going to be gone LAST season at the deadline, and nothing happened.

These guys are worth what they're worth.  Waiting around for two years isn't going to make a better deal magically appear.

Geoff's WORDS have said he's rebuilding, but his ACTIONS say he's still trying to work out that incident with the super glue, his thumb and his butt.

by Carl on Aug 20, 2007 9:16 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: All These Rumors Bogus?
I respect your opinion, Carl, but the Petrie visual will haunt me for the balance of the morning.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Aug 20, 2007 9:36 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: All These Rumors Bogus?
section214 - You may well be right, and I hope you are.  I've just seen so little activity out of the Kings front office that I won't believe they're doing something right until actually I see it happen.

by Carl on Aug 20, 2007 11:25 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: All These Rumors Bogus?
Damn it.  I wish I could edit my posts because of the damned tyops.

by Carl on Aug 20, 2007 11:26 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: All These Rumors Bogus?
Comment editing might be a part of the next edition of StR. I know I advocated it.

by Ziller on Aug 20, 2007 12:51 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: All These Rumors Bogus?
I need it because half my posts suck and have no coherence or point to them by the time I finish. Or I remember something I left out and you get the point. Please pretty please lobby harder to get it added.
I am the stone that the builder refused I am the visual, the inspiration That made Lady Sing the Blues..I'm the spark that makes your idea bright...

by pookeyguru on Aug 20, 2007 1:56 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: All These Rumors Bogus?
A few teams want Bibby right now.  Teams often try to deal for expiring contracts near the trade deadline.  It stands to reason that Bibby's value will increase, especially if he bounces back from last season.  As far as not getting enough back, I'd just like to say that there is a reason Geoff hasn't made any deals yet, and that it because he doesn't make deals just to make deals.  He won't pull the trigger if he's not getting enough back.  A trade right now would certainly give the Bee something to write about, and something for us to argue about, but a trade should ultimately be about improving the team.  Until the right deal comes along, standing pat seems like a good idea.  As any Niners fan knows, sometimes you have to suck for a few seasons before you can rebuild.
In Geoff we trust...

by Exhibit G on Aug 20, 2007 9:33 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: All These Rumors Bogus?
I think it is worth noting that although the Kings may not get more/better players at the trade deadline, teams who are looking for a big boost are always willing to mortgage their futures and add picks to the mix. If the Cavs could have come up with a first rounder last year, Mike Bibby would have made it to the finals. I
 
We are slipping into the NBA abyss.

by jjham15 on Aug 20, 2007 9:54 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: All These Rumors Bogus?
I have ROFLMAO at the claim about the

"Sacramento Bee - which offers very fine coverage and definitely stays on top of all team happenings - isn't legitimizing these rumours with any coverage. That tells me they know this is bogus."

Uhm... no offense but the sacbee's coverage has always been very detailed. We've been left for about a week and a half without any sort/kind of coverage on the team.

Time to blow 'em up, boyz.

by kingme18 on Aug 20, 2007 9:57 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: All These Rumors Bogus?
Msybe that's where you should give TZ props. He finds ways to make news when there is little.
I am the stone that the builder refused I am the visual, the inspiration That made Lady Sing the Blues..I'm the spark that makes your idea bright...

by pookeyguru on Aug 20, 2007 10:01 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: All These Rumors Bogus?
Agreed, props to TZ
In Geoff we trust...

by Exhibit G on Aug 20, 2007 10:15 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: All These Rumors Bogus?
Yes, TZ is a great blogger but this was about something moronic about what roto Rob mentioned.
Time to blow 'em up, boyz.

by kingme18 on Aug 20, 2007 10:17 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: All These Rumors Bogus?
The difference between August and November I suppose.
I am the stone that the builder refused I am the visual, the inspiration That made Lady Sing the Blues..I'm the spark that makes your idea bright...

by pookeyguru on Aug 20, 2007 10:31 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: All These Rumors Bogus?
TZ is a well spring of information. DRINK DEEP FROM THE CHALICE THAT IS TZ!!!  Too much?
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Aug 20, 2007 11:09 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: All These Rumors Bogus?
That is creepy. Let me know when it's possible to erase your mind of such a comment.
I am the stone that the builder refused I am the visual, the inspiration That made Lady Sing the Blues..I'm the spark that makes your idea bright...

by pookeyguru on Aug 20, 2007 11:24 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: All These Rumors Bogus?
My cup had a cigarette butt in it.

by otis29 on Aug 20, 2007 1:06 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I thought about writing a diary but im lazy
Here's the thing that bothers me. If you're keeping Bibby and Artest because the value you want doesn't exist ,yet the prez of BBOP is saying you need contracts that expire in 2 years, that makes me go huh? Let me explain deeper.

I have a conspiracy theory that Geoff wants to drag the Ron-Ron/MB10 drama out to make the Maloof's recoil even further in their dismay and public embarrassment. If he somehow did get expiring's for Bibby/Artest (which would make sense even if you didn't use any cap room next offseason) then he might have a different fear. That creating that cap room for the 08 offseason allows meddling rather than the reality check of what happens when you try to stay ahead of the losing curve.

It's not that I don't think Geoff has control of the franchise for the most part because I think that. It's not that I'm particularily concerned if the Maloof's meddling continues. (They either will ,or they won't, and crossing that bridge is probably best crossed when crossing it.) I'm just curious as to why 2 expiring contracts, albeit small one's, wouldn't have value in allowing the team to at least pursue a younger cheaper core in the time being until the real cap room of the next 3 offseason's really comes into play. I'm curious how gaining some cap flexibility in 2008 is not reasonable trade value for Mike Bibby to begin with.

Unfortunately I've had a gut feeling that this whole summer has been an extended power play that has carried over from spring. Wish it wasn't so, and I'm even more tired talking about the dumm dumm'z, but it seems to be lurking in every comment by Petrie. Here's exactly my point:

""If we want to get into the situation here where you have real (salary) room, you have to curtail some of the team's spending and gather enough contracts expiring to create that room. ... Potentially, on a two-year horizon, we can naturally arrive there."
Wait a minute. You're telling me that this team can't dump salary for 08? That it doesn't help this team both from a financial/player perspective? That it won't allow the team the kind of flexibility to do whatever it wants from 08 forward? My question is why not pursue cap flexibility as quickly as possible? What do you have to lose? I don't ever remember Charlotte losing cap room over the course of the 06 07 season because they didn't use it (with the noted exception of getting over the minimum threshold which they did have to make trades in order to do). Atlanta hasn't lost cap space when they haven't used it. This isn't a cell phone bill. There are no use em or lose em minutes here. Cap room can be carried over for years if that's the choice. I don't get this in any way shape or form. Geoff Petrie isn't Jerry Krause where he was "perceived" to insult Michael Jordan turning off other younger players.

Something stinks in Denmark and I'd like to know what. My guess is by Sept 1st ,at the earliest and Oct 1st at the latest, we'll have that answer.

I am the stone that the builder refused I am the visual, the inspiration That made Lady Sing the Blues..I'm the spark that makes your idea bright...

by pookeyguru on Aug 20, 2007 1:11 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: I thought about writing a diary but im lazy
I think you might be going too deep here. My feeling is that Petrie and the Maloofs are playing out a delicate balancing act between rebuilding and staying just competitive enough to justify the current ticket prices.

You, TZ and others here might understand the nuances of the game enough to handle a serious clunker of a season, but the average fan? They think Bibby's an all-star caliber PG, and the best player on the team.  Why spend the money to watch a team that gets rid of it's best player?

by otis29 on Aug 20, 2007 1:58 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: I thought about writing a diary but im lazy
Good point on the average fan. Hadn't really thought about them but there alot out there. And many Kings fans still think highly of Mike Bibby. Your point is valid about fans not wanting to watch the team but attendance started to decline a year ago with that 'best player' on the team. When teams aren't very good most fans won't stick around to watch them on a game to game basis.

I don't know if I went too deep but I certainly didn't factor your point into the shuffle so that is certainly an error. Most of the time I ignore average fans because most of them know less than the pimple on my ass. It's not their fault but some of the questions I've heard on 1140 are so bad that they make me cringe. And I know they're coming. That's the whole problem with the fan base sometimes. You get the smart fans, and there are plenty, and you get some who know some things and the basic stuff, and then you get the ones who don't care and are only there for social reasons. Unfortunately though those are the fans the Maloof's got in the Arena in the better years and now they're paying the price. Jim Thomas deserves some blame here for he started the trend.

I am the stone that the builder refused I am the visual, the inspiration That made Lady Sing the Blues..I'm the spark that makes your idea bright...

by pookeyguru on Aug 20, 2007 2:13 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: I thought about writing a diary but im lazy
You make a good point about the average fan.  I think Sacramento's fans are a little different.   I think we'll tolerate losing if we've got young guys with promise, they try hard, and we think we'll get better.

Look how long Kings fans tolerated mediocrity in the 80's and 90's.  So, while I think your read on what the Kings front office is right, I think the front office's read on the fans is wrong.

Personally, I'd much rather watch five Justin Williams turnovers and dunks a game than Brad Miller running eight feet behind everyone else because he's hurt, out of shape and doesn't care, or Kenny Thomas shooting bullets at the rim from three feet away.  If the Kings lose more games playing Justin Williams or Garcia or Douby, I'm FINE with that, because it's more entertaining than winning 35 games with a bunch of overpaid, over the hill vets who don't try.

by Carl on Aug 21, 2007 12:05 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

uhmmmm.....how about this?
Why not wait to trade either Mike bibby or Ron Artest until after the season starts and they play better than last season so they seem more desirable to other teams who then would offer  more of the value Petrie wishes to get in exchange for them?Is that too simple of an explanation as to what's going on in Geoff's brain?Then at least I get a starting rotation for version 3 of my song before I start version 4.

http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/rhondda

by Rhondda Nunes on Aug 20, 2007 1:40 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: uhmmmm.....how about this?
Petrie can expect any kind of value he wants. It doesn't mean that there is any kind of value that would be increased by each player improving their 'stats' that would make a team want them that much more. That's another argument I don't buy. Bibby is what he is. As is Artest. Most teams know that and will know what if Bibby is dishing 10 dimes over a 10 game stretch there might be a reasonable explanation why and it's not just his passing picked up. Just one example.
I am the stone that the builder refused I am the visual, the inspiration That made Lady Sing the Blues..I'm the spark that makes your idea bright...

by pookeyguru on Aug 20, 2007 1:48 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: uhmmmm.....how about this?
Most teams know that and will know what if Bibby is dishing 10 dimes over a 10 game stretch there might be a reasonable explanation why and it's not just his passing picked up.
I need to take better editing class.

Most teams know that and will know if Bibby is passing better during a certain clip. For example if he's dishing 10 dimes over a 10 game stretch they might figure it's an abberation rather than him raising his play to get himself traded.

I am the stone that the builder refused I am the visual, the inspiration That made Lady Sing the Blues..I'm the spark that makes your idea bright...

by pookeyguru on Aug 20, 2007 1:51 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Perhaps....
But if I were a gm of an opposing team, I'd be more interested in giving more to get the MB10 of say....2005 if that's what I saw at the beginning of this season as opposed to the MB10 of last season.

http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/rhondda

by Rhondda Nunes on Aug 20, 2007 4:10 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Perhaps....
I dont think GM's perceive value in play at the moment. They probably look at a median value and say can this guy consistently give us this? And that's the way I'd approach Mike for the next 2 years.
I am the stone that the builder refused I am the visual, the inspiration That made Lady Sing the Blues..I'm the spark that makes your idea bright...

by pookeyguru on Aug 20, 2007 6:01 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: All These Rumors Bogus?
Of course Petrie has a plan. The Kings are a multi-million company, everything is planned and organized. The thing is that they work long-term so our eyes can't tell what's going right now. We are going down right now, as low as we can, so we can get picks and cap. We're going to climb up again in probably 2-3 years. It's gonna be fun :P

by Z3nBall3r on Aug 21, 2007 1:02 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: All These Rumors Bogus?
I think history proves you need a future hall of famer to win an NBA Championship. Even with a future Hall of Famer you may not. San Antonio, Dallas, Phoenix, Miami, Cleveland, maybe not Detroit, but the Lakers, Wizards, Nets. All teams with future Hall of Famers. How do you get those type of players? $$$$$$$$$ and draft picks. Is Petrie trying to position the team to get one of those players without gutting his whole supporting cast? I don't know. I can't tell. Can anyone else?

by NYCFan on Aug 21, 2007 7:10 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

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