Free Agency or Trade?

by HardRockTroy on Jan 30, 2008 10:58 AM PST

Been a fan of this board for a long time. Seen a lot of trade proposals recently...most of them centering around expiring contracts with the hope of acquiring a top-level free agent. One problem with that. Will a top-level free agent really want to sign with the Kings?

Unfortunately, these aren't the Kings of old and the league knows it. Players used to be willing to overlook the franchise's flaws. They wanted to play for the Maloofs...to play for a winner...to play in Adelman's offense with pass-friendly bigs. Now? The Kings have a coach who has been praised around the league but not so much in his own locer room, an aging arena with horrendous player facilities, and a team that's stuck in the quandry of "we're not good enough for the playoffs but not bad enough for a high lottery pick". Throw in the fact that Sac isn't exactly the most appealing destination to young NBA millionaires and you've got a bit of a problem.

So what does Petrie do? In my opinion, he has to look at trades in one of the following ways: target a young-ish fading star who has the chance to rebound in a new environment (ie. Webber) or find raw talent with unlimited YET unreached potential (ie. Gerald Wallace). My suggestion:

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=25~61~312~434~138~2393~497&teams=12~12 ~23~23~26~23~26&te=&cash=

End Result...

Kings Get:
Kirilenko
Livingston
Hart

Clippers Get:
Artest
Bibby

Jazz Get:
Maggette
Cassell

This accomplishes both goals in a single trade. Gets the Kings a freakish big and a young pass-first point guard. Lineup next year would be:

Livingston/Beno (resigned at MLE)
Martin/Cisco
Salmons/Cisco
Kirilenko/Moore
Miller/Hawes

Hiccups to the deal? The Jazz have been hot since acquiring Korver. Would they want to make a deal? It's not a secret Kirilenko is playing out of position and that they have long coveted Maggette (Clippers matched Jazz offer sheet). Plus Cassell gives them the Derek Fisher backup they've been missing since last year. Maybe a stretch but not impossible.

For the Clippers, are they willing to throw in the towel on Livingston? The trade actually gives them a formidable lineup when healthy: Bibby, Mobley, Artest, Brand, Kaman. But they'd have to resign Bibby, Artest, and Brand in the next two years. As someone who lives in SoCal and witnesses the genius of Donald Stirling on a daily basis though...I wouldn't put it past him.

Hoping to sign a free agent at the end of the year or trading for someone like Gooden, Varajeo, or Haslem isn't going to turn the Kings into a legit playoff team. Petrie has to get talent in return and the only way to do that is by taking a risk. He's not getting equal value on paper for Artest and Bibby...just not going to happen.

(This is a FanPost from a member of the Sactown Royalty community. The views expressed come from the member, and not Sactown Royalty staff.)

Tweet Comment 37 comments | 0 recs |

Do you like this story?

Comments

AK-47

Is not the freakish big I'd want, especially not for 13 million for the next 4. Plus, Jason Hart can get waived for all I care, and Shaun Lvingston is never going to amount to what people thought he'd be (when people put on you the expectation to be Magic Johnson, the pressure is insane).

Look at the Francisco Garcia vs Doug Christie post, that trade at least holds some water (even though it'l never happen).
Two trades (the first one intiated by kangsfan) will leave us with line-ups of:

Beno/Garcia
K-mart/Salmons/Douby
Odom/Balkman/Jones
Lee/Mikki/Scola
Miller/Shawes

Odom-Lee-Balkman-Scola is much better value for artest-and-bibby-and-pick.

All this talk, of course, doesn't mattter, because it'll never happen. Jazz aren't rolling the dice now, Clippers might want to wait-and-see with Brand.

by iashwash on Jan 30, 2008 12:55 PM PST reply actions

Don't ever say my trade idea's were stupid

That's all I ask. I live outside of La-La land.

I am the stone that the builder refused I am the visual, the inspiration That made Lady Sing the Blues..I'm the spark that makes your idea bright...

by pookeyguru on Jan 30, 2008 2:11 PM PST reply actions

Speedy Claxton. Enough said.

StR- Where Pookey is long, Otis is short and Section brings down the house.

by jjham15 @ Sactown Royalty on Jan 30, 2008 2:22 PM PST up reply actions

At least it had a factual background

It's not like Speedy is the worse guy I ever came up with. You don't like him for your reasons. That aint my fault. And if Speedy had microfracture surgery the way he had it in Atlanta you could have gotten that cap room much earlier, and at a cheaper price overall than what you would have paid Bibby in total for this season & next. You know it I know it. Your ego believes Bibby , in my opinion, is better than he is. You know that I know that. Diatribe over.

I am the stone that the builder refused I am the visual, the inspiration That made Lady Sing the Blues..I'm the spark that makes your idea bright...

by pookeyguru on Jan 30, 2008 2:29 PM PST up reply actions

I agree with the sentiment

I think the idea trading for a 'dented' star is a good premise to work from; as you said, the free agent pool is difficult enough with the other issues the franchise has (location, underwhelming talent base).

You all forget Kirilenko's better years, like when he led an otherwise terrible 2003-04 Utah team to 42 wins and the #14 defense. He was bad last year because a) Sloan was trying to break him, and b) he's not a small forward. But he's been great this year; shooting has been more efficient than even Salmons, great shotblocker, good rebounder, insanely good passer (though offers some nutty turnovers).

Livingston is intriguing; he's a restricted FA this summer, and if he doesn't come back before then (which would be likely, I think, if he were to get traded), you could keep him for one year at the qualifying offer to judge his post-injury athleticism. He's 22 years old for goodness sake. And AK's only 26.

On salaries, it'd be a push this year and hurt the Kings a bit next season if they got Livingston at the Q.O. and couldn't move a Hydra. Mikki might be movable this summer if he keeps it up; he's practically expiring in 2009, which is a big free agent summer. If you managed to move him (or Miller or either of the other two old PFs for mostly expirings), and you could keep Beno for $3.5 million a year, you could conceivably stay away from the luxury tax.

That depth chart again, with 2008-09 ages included:
Livingston (23)/Udrih (26)
Martin (25)/Douby (24)
Salmons (29)/Garcia (27)
Kirilenko (27)/HYDRAS FOR DAYS (∞)
Miller (32)/Hawes (20)

With the 2008 draft pick in there, too. Depending on Hawes' progression and who you pick, this might be a nice little team, no?

(I'm sorry, I just adore Kirilenko's game and style. I could watch him play all day. This is the best trade creation ever on StR.)

by Tom Ziller on Jan 30, 2008 3:13 PM PST reply actions

If I was GM I'd sign off on that trade in

a heartbeat. I don't get why Utah would. I also don't get why LA would want Bibby & Artest. Call me insane. Maggette and the touches he gets is an issue in LA. How wouldn't that be the same for Artest? Plus, Utah has been severely reluctant to part with Kirilenko. Petrie pulls this off and I'm happy. Very very happy.

I am the stone that the builder refused I am the visual, the inspiration That made Lady Sing the Blues..I'm the spark that makes your idea bright...

by pookeyguru on Jan 30, 2008 3:21 PM PST up reply actions

Utah...

The thought all summer was that Kirilenko was practically untradeable given his big contract and suffering play. They could trade him for two expiring contracts, who also happen to be a) one long-lusted scorer and b) a veteran point guard. And they save about $17 million next year, which is big considering they need to extend Deron Williams to an $80 million deal this summer.

Sterling thinks the Clippers are still in it, for whatever reason. And they need some offense, badly. Bibby'd help. Artest is a great player, and while LAC is worse now than SAC was when Peja-for-Artest went down, that can't be too far beyond their consciousness. LA'd be better with Bibby and Artest than with Maggs and Cassell. And they aren't damaging the cap situation since Bibby comes off in 2009 at the latest (which is when, ahem, Kobe can opt out). I'm not aware how enamored Sterling or Baylor or Dunleavy still is with Livingston, but I'm guessing less than pre-injury. He'd be the stopping point if there were one for LA.

The guy who'd hesitate in my mind is Petrie. Why? Because he'd essentially being rebuilding his team right now. You bring in Kirilenko, and this is basically your core, Martin and Kirilenko. You can tinker around the edges with Miller (maybe), Moore (maybe), even Garcia or Salmons. If Livingston doesn't work out, you have to go get a PG (in the draft or via trades), unless Beno becomes a championship-level PG (doubtful).

As a sort of molotov cocktail, I'll toss this creation in and walk away.

by Tom Ziller on Jan 30, 2008 3:42 PM PST up reply actions

RASHO NESTEROVIC???

Oh, wait...expiring contract. OK, not bad, though I sure would miss John Salmons.

SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Jan 30, 2008 3:49 PM PST up reply actions

Yeah

Rasho has a player option for 2008-09, which he'd be insane to reject. But hey! He's Beno's countryman!

Kings' salary would stay even this year, but would be a serious luxury tax threat for the next two. The Maloofs don't want to pay it, but if Petrie could convince them TJ/Martin/Garcia/AK/Miller could contend, they might spring for the extra $8 million or so. Especially if the arena situation perks up.

Highly unlikely trade -- too many moving parts, for one, and there's little indication Toronto's ready to give up Ford (no matter they could use the cap space, a solid player like Salmons and a bench big). But it avoids the whole Livingston landmine (which makes the Clippers more viable) and seriously rebuilds this team.

by Tom Ziller on Jan 30, 2008 4:02 PM PST up reply actions

I would do LIvingston in a heartbeat

It's a win win situation. You have the guy for a year & a half. Not that big of a deal. He & Douby, on paper, seem to be a terrific fit too. You move Artest & Bibby. The only negative is the salary you receive back. I wonder if Hart can be moved easily though with an expiring deal. My bet is yes. I'd be happy with either deal, but that's me.

I am the stone that the builder refused I am the visual, the inspiration That made Lady Sing the Blues..I'm the spark that makes your idea bright...

by pookeyguru on Jan 30, 2008 4:12 PM PST up reply actions

You seem to love point guards with knee injuries.

StR- Where Pookey is long, Otis is short and Section brings down the house.

by jjham15 @ Sactown Royalty on Jan 30, 2008 5:33 PM PST up reply actions

If Petrie hesitated he should be fired

On this molotov cocktail you done lost your mind. I like it though. I think Beno & TJ would be a terrific combo. Clearly TJ's history is scary, but if you're going to push the ball you want 2 pass first guys don't you? And if TJ goes down you're protected if you keep Beno. As I said I like it. The only problem is could you re-sign Beno for the MLE? And would the Maloof's pay luxury tax to do this? Another question to ask in all this. But if it was me, and I wrote the checks, I'm all for it. I think Rasho would be very easy to dump.

I am the stone that the builder refused I am the visual, the inspiration That made Lady Sing the Blues..I'm the spark that makes your idea bright...

by pookeyguru on Jan 30, 2008 3:51 PM PST up reply actions

Plus

I think people forget Kyle Korver is a versatile player who plays 2 positions. You can still play Korver with AK at the same time while keeping your big 3 for Utah on the court. Ronnie Brewer is becoming a player for note there as well and I'm not sure they would be hot to trot for Maggette the way they once were.

I am the stone that the builder refused I am the visual, the inspiration That made Lady Sing the Blues..I'm the spark that makes your idea bright...

by pookeyguru on Jan 30, 2008 3:23 PM PST up reply actions

Hmmm -

I like the deal for the Kings except for the fact that AK47 is due $15.1/16.5/17.8 after this year - kinda pricy. That said, it does give Theus a very interesting team to play with.

If Elton Brand has a voice in things I could reach on the Clipper end of this deal, as Brand loves Artest. This deal probably works for them only if they keep Artest, as Bibby alone added to the remaining Clips does not make them all that great.

I think that Utah makes this deal only if Sloan has absolutely had it with Kirilenko.

SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Jan 30, 2008 3:41 PM PST reply actions

And 1

Great trade scenario, though. Definitely a new spin, which is saying something given the number of pseudo trades that we've thrown around here.

SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Jan 30, 2008 3:42 PM PST up reply actions

Far-Fetchedness

I don't want Kirilenko in Sacramento.

Instead, here's another long-shot deal...

Trade Machine

To NJ - Bibby and Desmond Mason
To Mil - Douby and Abdur-Rahim
To Sac - Jason Kidd and Michael Ruffin

Remaining Roster:

1- Kidd, Udrih
2- Martin, Garcia, Jones
3- Artest, Salmons
4- Moore, Williams, Thomas
5- Miller, Hawes, Ruffin

by sroufe on Jan 30, 2008 3:51 PM PST reply actions

Wait

You don't want a 26-year-old power forward making $15 million, but you'll take a 34-year-old point guard making $20 million? Does not compute.

by Tom Ziller on Jan 30, 2008 4:04 PM PST up reply actions

Either...

Either Does AK-47 crying (literally) after not getting the opportunities he wants. (in the playoffs nonetheless)

I'm not saying I agree or disagree with the trade mentioned above.. But seriously....really AK-47, did you really wimper in front of the National Media cause Sloan wasnt being nice enough to you...

No thanks.. Talk about a negtive (and depressing) locker room presence!!

by Hoops916 on Jan 30, 2008 6:46 PM PST up reply actions

Re: Wait

There are 3 years on AK's deal after this one, but only 1 year left on Kidd's. The deal still allows the Kings major cap room for Summer 2009, and rids them of SAR's contract earlier.

Kirilenko has been a major headache in SLC for 2-3 seasons now. What makes anyone think he'd be different in Sactown? Artest and Kirilenko would make for double the babysitting and Kirilenko would likely become bored/jealous of Speed Racer the same way he has of Williams and Boozer.

I live in Salt Lake, Larry Miller is obviously sick of AK, plus he's no power forward: he averages less than 6 rpg!

by sroufe on Jan 30, 2008 4:19 PM PST reply actions

Well..

His rebound rate as a small forward (which has been his position two years) is similar to Mikki Moore's as a 7-foot power forward/center.

He's a very good SF rebounder, and a good/average PF rebounder. And he'd be the second best shotblocking PF in the league behind Josh Smith (though that might depend on who you classify as a C or as a PF).

All the trades mentioned would move Artest. Furthermore, Theus has been nowhere near as restricting an offensive coach as Sloan is. I mean, Theus rarely has control of his offense. Sloan always has control of his offense. And Reggie certainly wouldn't argue when AK said he'd rather play inside.

Again, I know it's a risky move because you're rebuilding right now instead of clearing the space to rebuild in a few years. But I think AK right now might be better than what you could get with space in a few years, as was the premise of HrdRockTroy's diary.

by Tom Ziller on Jan 30, 2008 4:34 PM PST up reply actions

This all sounds familiar

darknight - circa 1998:
Webber has been a major headache in WAS for 2-3 seasons now. What makes anyone think he'd be different in Sactown?

Just sayin'... ;-)

by Carl on Jan 30, 2008 10:10 PM PST up reply actions

Good Points TZ

I understand the idea that AK would likely be better than any PF you could buy in the long-term with cap relief (and light-years beyond Mikki) and I realize this is all just fun fan speculation. (But I still wouldn't enjoy trading Artest and Bibby within the division.)

Also, I realize AK would be a major improvement at the 4, but his natural position would still be at the 3, at least defensively. Did you see him on T-Mac the other night? He's obviously a tremendous shot-blocker (on and off the ball), but I wouldn't want him to be our primary 4 and have to guard Al Jefferson or Boozer in the paint over the next few years.

by sroufe on Jan 30, 2008 4:58 PM PST reply actions

Other Artest Scenarios

Artest Trades:

To Memphis for Kyle Lowry, Stromile Swift and a Future Draft Pick

To Milwaukee for Charlie Villanueva, Desmond Mason and a Future Draft Pick

by sroufe on Jan 30, 2008 5:01 PM PST reply actions

Artest trades

I like the Memphis trade! How about Artest & Moore to Charlotte for Okafor (sign & trade) & ? expirings, picks.

by busybe on Jan 30, 2008 11:00 PM PST up reply actions

Other Bibby Scenarios

To Denver for Nene and J.R. Smith

And I couldn't resist the ridiculous...

Epic Deal to Houston

by sroufe on Jan 30, 2008 5:28 PM PST reply actions

More feasible....

Take out San Antonio and move around a couple of dudes and I think your epic might be on to something.

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=2429~2381~2435~788~61~532~3018&teams=2 3~10~23~10~10~4~4&te=&cash=

Sorry, I don't know how to do links.

StR- Where Pookey is long, Otis is short and Section brings down the house.

by jjham15 @ Sactown Royalty on Jan 30, 2008 5:44 PM PST up reply actions

A cancer free Nene, maybe but not now.

Nene is owed way too much with his health issues and Smith is a nightmare.

StR- Where Pookey is long, Otis is short and Section brings down the house.

by jjham15 @ Sactown Royalty on Jan 30, 2008 5:46 PM PST up reply actions

Off topic

But can I change my username to "HYDRA FOR DAYS"?

Brilliant

by melee on Jan 30, 2008 5:57 PM PST reply actions

Re: More feasible

Of course, that "epic" would depend upon the Bulls' willingness to move Deng (due to his unwillingness to resign) and/or Deng committing to a deal similar to Martin's in Sacramento.

I recognize Smith is a disaster waiting to happen, but his deal is up at the end of the season.

by sroufe on Jan 30, 2008 6:02 PM PST reply actions

Spencer and Bibby for 3 Sonics

I posted this on tonight's game thread and thought it might fit better in this discussion.

Since Seattle is crap they might as well be young crap. They have a glut of power forwards and should move one to get Jeff Green more playing time. Maybe we can give them the hometown Seattle boy Hawes and Bibby for Watson, Wilcox and Delonte West, who is riding the pine for some reason. Trade works, too, and helps our front line while giving us more speed at the point guard position.

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=61~3211~1027~2422~1731&teams=25~25~23~ 23~23&te=&cash=

by coolcatreportdotcom on Jan 30, 2008 10:23 PM PST reply actions

Wouldn't this just extend the Bibby contract?

Taking on Wilcox for 2 yrs and Watson for 3 is probably not part of Petries' "rebuilding" philosophy. I like Wilcox but he is inconsistent and Watson has had plenty of opportunity to prove he is a starter in the NBA but failed to do so. You are basically asking to relive the Webber deal, 3 smaller contracts that hopefully can be moved for 1 more year of Mike Bibby at a high rate.

I say no!

StR- Where Pookey is long, Otis is short and Section brings down the house.

by jjham15 @ Sactown Royalty on Jan 30, 2008 11:35 PM PST up reply actions

Don't ever say I didn't agree with you JJ

I am the stone that the builder refused I am the visual, the inspiration That made Lady Sing the Blues..I'm the spark that makes your idea bright...

by pookeyguru on Jan 30, 2008 11:39 PM PST up reply actions

Just Wilcox then

Would you rather have Wilcox or Mikki? Or do you think Wilcox would help address Kings poor upfront situation?

by coolcatreportdotcom on Jan 31, 2008 12:15 AM PST up reply actions

Definately Wilcox.

StR- Where Pookey is long, Otis is short and Section brings down the house.

by jjham15 @ Sactown Royalty on Jan 31, 2008 1:52 PM PST up reply actions

4s and 5s

Ran some quick numbers using Hollinger's PERs and found seven team with at least four big men with PERs of at least 10. The teams are Dallas, Phoenix, Portland, Seattle, Chicago, the Lakers and Miami. So these teams might be able to part with one of those bigs for one of our excess wings.

by coolcatreportdotcom on Jan 30, 2008 10:33 PM PST reply actions

I like Biedrins

He shut down David West tonight in crunch time and they are giving him no love with the signing of Webber. Dude had 26 rebounds the other night, blocks shots and has a mellow personality when he's not dunking. Not a great free throw shooter.

by coolcatreportdotcom on Jan 31, 2008 12:12 AM PST reply actions

Biedrins would be fantastic with Kevin

Unfortunately probably will never happen. Teams don't usually give up on young bigs who can block, rebound, and finish. Well, unless your name's Nene...

by Kingsfan banished to AZ on Jan 31, 2008 9:45 AM PST up reply actions