Choose Your Own Nugget(s)
If Denver wants Ron Artest -- and why wouldn't they? -- there are really two ways a potential trade could go. (Sam Amick touches on them both here.)
You can go big, secure your power forward position with a fellow who dunks like a madman, can defend Tim Duncan fairly well in the post, has a contract through 2012, threatens the luxury tax, and might start chemotherapy treatment soon after a malignant tumor was removed from his testicle.
Or you can play it safe, taking on an expiring contract and a young swingman, barely affecting your cap space, shedding a current problem but adding another log to the small forward dam, pushing the search for a power forward to the summer and beyond.
Either could be likely, for both teams' points of view. Geoff Petrie is known to have loved Nene. George Karl is one of few coaches who'd love to try to prove he can make Artest sane. Linas Kleiza is and will always be trapped behind Carmelo Anthony. Eduardo Najera isn't a major cog this year. Petrie loves big fellows (Kleiza's 6'8) who can shoot (Kleiza's TS% is up around .579).
I think Petrie could squeeze a first-round pick out of either deal, but it'd be more likely in the Kleiza/Najera package. The Kleiza/Najera trade could probably happen the second Carmelo Anthony returns from injury, which should be any day. The Nene deal might need to wait until Nene can get back on the court, which will likely be much closer to the trade deadline, if then.
Poll on the right. Your comments below.
UPDATE: An interpretation of how this conservation between the actual actors involved might have went.
0 recs |
78 comments
Comments
No for me on Nene
by otis29 on Jan 31, 2008 9:57 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Draft Time!
A decent Lottery Pick and an additional #1 could mean an even better Lottery Pick, and that could mean Michael Beasley. Minnestoa doesn't need a Power Forward and Miami needs another scorer and...Beasley will be gone long before Sacto drafts... but we all have dreams...
by rbiegler on Jan 31, 2008 10:10 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
dude...
by iashwash on Jan 31, 2008 10:17 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Kleiza-Najera and a Pick Could Work
Najera would be a decent compliment to our front line, but he is not a post-up guy, more of hustle and get offensive boards kind of guy. Like Harpring, he can also play the hack man role.
Najera is similar in talent to Mikki, and similar also in age at 31, but is a better passer and is a little less turnover prone.
If you are complaining about Artest shooting too much, you won't be happy with Kleiza. Averages a little more than an assist per game, while Ron averages more than 4 a game. But he's a better outside shooter, better free throw shooter and, perhaps surprisingly, is a slightly better rebounder. He's also a little less turnover prone. He's also only 23.
If they throw in first-rounder for 2009, it's probably a decent deal. Then, if you can deal Bibby for another big man and a competent point guard, you probably have a decent core group to go forward with.
Mention of this deal might get the other teams that are interested in Ron on the horn, and maybe we can get something better.
by coolcatreportdotcom on Jan 31, 2008 10:20 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
2009 Pick
by coolcatreportdotcom on Jan 31, 2008 10:22 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Do the Nuggets have a first round pick?
Nene's health concerns and I don't just mean the testicular cancer issues scare me. Nene still isn't fully healed from the major knee injury he suffered 2 years ago. I fear that he could really do a Ralph Sampson type number on the Kings franchise if he can't play again.
I guess sometimes you have to role the dice and try to make something happen, I just don't know if Nene is the right guy to gamble on.
by jjham15 on Jan 31, 2008 10:23 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Agree on Nene
by otis29 on Jan 31, 2008 10:38 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Deal with Dallas and the Nets
by coolcatreportdotcom on Jan 31, 2008 10:36 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Or Maybe Not
by coolcatreportdotcom on Jan 31, 2008 10:43 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Can't Say I Like This
But it works.
Dallas gets Kidd.
New Jersey gets Miller and Bibby.
The Kings get Harris, Stackhouse, Bass and Dampier.
I like Harris and Bass, but the other two only make sense if you can then package them in another trade.
Can you imagine Harris and Martin racing down the court? Could be a lot of fun.
by coolcatreportdotcom on Jan 31, 2008 10:58 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Well This is Interesting
Dallas gets Kidd.
New Jersey gets Miller and Bibby.
The Kings get McGrady, Harris and Bass.
Houston gets Stackhouse and Dampier.
Not sure Houston is interested it this unless a pick is thrown in, or maybe someone like Sean Williams, and they probably would want a different piece than Dampier since they have Yao.
It also leaves the Kings without a true center. In other words, the same thing we have now. Or maybe we start giving Hawes and Justin Williams more burn. Actually, that's not a bad thought.
by coolcatreportdotcom on Jan 31, 2008 11:16 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
The problem here
Artest.
You remember, the head case Kobe wannabe who is opting out at the end of the season if he's still here...
Any trade scenario you come up with that doesn't include Artest gone by the deadline (3 weeks from today) is a non-starter.
I'm not saying Bibby and Miller aren't tradeable, but they probably have more value to our team than they do out in the open market. Personally, I'd like to see us keep Miller as long as he's going to play the way he has been. And Bibby has been playing more like a point guard since his return, and you won't find a better in trade.
As for Nene, I've never been a fan, he seems fragile, and his contract is a nightmare. So if we're voting, count me as a solid NO.
by LeaguePassAddict on Jan 31, 2008 11:29 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Nope
That would mean we dump Miller, Bibby and Artest and end up with:
- C - Hawes, Williams.
- PF - Moore, Bass, Najera.
- SF - McGrady, Kleiza, Garcia.
- SG - Martin, Salmons, Garcia, Douby, Jones.
- PG - Harris, Udrih, Douby.
by coolcatreportdotcom on Jan 31, 2008 11:39 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Still
And I'm not big on the addition of TMac, either. He's an often-injured small 3 who needs a lot of shots.
Najera is a banger, but he can only play limited minutes and isn't really big enough to guard any elite-level 4's.
And would you really be comfortable starting Hawes and having his only back-up be Williams?
I'm not.
by LeaguePassAddict on Jan 31, 2008 11:55 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Center Backup and TMac
We'd be a pretty dynamic lineup with Tmac and have a good supporting cast for when he is injured.
by coolcatreportdotcom on Jan 31, 2008 12:09 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Why
And how could you possibly imagine Mikki or Hawes being able to stop any of the elite PFs or Centers?
Your line-up doesn't solve any of our problems, it just makes the ones we already have worse.
It's trading for the sake of trading, and while the Maloofs might occasionally push for that, Petrie would rather join Brad for a can of Skoal than make moves that didn't make sense.
And I can't remember Artest EVER being the biggest guy on the floor.
by LeaguePassAddict on Jan 31, 2008 12:26 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Knicks Game
When he had to cover Eddy Curry. And did a pretty admirable job of it, I might add. I think Brad and Mikki had both fouled out.
by coolcatreportdotcom on Jan 31, 2008 1:01 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Difference of Opinion
You add a perennial All-Star in McGrady and basically trade Miller for Bass and Najera.
You end up with a Denver draft pick and keep your own pick.
You give Spencer some valuable playing time.
You get rid of three guys who aren't part of the future picture.
You probably have a more tradable commodity in McGrady than the three guys we have now.
And you have a possible sleeper in Bass.
by coolcatreportdotcom on Jan 31, 2008 1:14 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Ick
by section214 on Jan 31, 2008 1:25 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
If by spine you mean vagina.
by jjham15 on Jan 31, 2008 1:33 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
You reply to your own post quite frequently.
by jjham15 on Jan 31, 2008 1:27 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Naysayer
Feel free to post something constructive. Maybe even your own whack trades or an improvement on what I threw out there.
I am not saying the trade makes total sense, but it beats your contribution to this thread. Not that that's very hard to do.
by coolcatreportdotcom on Jan 31, 2008 1:36 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Was that a line from "Bring it On"?
by jjham15 on Jan 31, 2008 1:39 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
And you think I'm a divisive prick JJ
by pookeyguru on Jan 31, 2008 1:43 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Pookey, coolcat is your antithesis.
by jjham15 on Jan 31, 2008 1:47 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I was just being amusing for my own reasons
As far as undervaluing talent I don't really do that either. I just know Bibby doesn't have as much as value as I'm sure you would like. THERE is a large difference, and I'm not arguing the point either, which is all I care about pointing out.
As far as upselling deals I just rolled my eyes at coolcat. I already called him Don Quixote for saying keep Artest and trade Martin.
(Side Note JJ: Do you know how to post diaries on AN?--This intro diary thing is kicking my ass--and no I'm not posting anything on AN.)
by pookeyguru on Jan 31, 2008 2:10 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
sorry dude, I am computer challenged.
by jjham15 on Jan 31, 2008 2:40 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Hawes
by Kusian on Jan 31, 2008 2:29 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Najera
by coolcatreportdotcom on Jan 31, 2008 12:11 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Gotta be honest
by pookeyguru on Jan 31, 2008 1:04 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Kind of wish he would keep that shit under his hat
by jjham15 on Jan 31, 2008 1:30 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
No Nene
I'd take the Artest for Najera/Kleiza deal in a minute - 1st round pick or not. Not that I'm high on either guy, but it gets rid of Artest before the inevitable blowup.
by Carl on Jan 31, 2008 1:06 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Lesser of two evils
It looks like Najera comes off the books at the end of the year and Kleiza is dirt cheap, so maybe it assures you the ability to re-sign Udrih even if you can't/don't move Bibby. But it flies in the face of Petrie's notion that you don't trade a more talented player for a less talented player.
Nene is a career 11 and 6 guy and barely blocks a shot a game. Petrie loves him so I'll defer to him as the expert, but I'm just not seeing it.
Too bad Camby isn't part of the equation. He makes $8 million next year and $7.7 million the year after that, and for that you get 14 boards and 4 blocks per game. That would look pretty nice playing alongside Brad.
Oh, and be sure and click on the update that TZ added. Very funny stuff.
by section214 on Jan 31, 2008 1:33 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
You can do backflips?
by LeaguePassAddict on Jan 31, 2008 1:57 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I have no spine
by section214 on Jan 31, 2008 2:09 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
So you were Slinky in Toy Story?
by pookeyguru on Jan 31, 2008 2:11 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes,
by section214 on Jan 31, 2008 2:16 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
No wonder everybody likes you
by pookeyguru on Jan 31, 2008 7:08 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think Denver would be a totally
I think as far as Denver goes for them Najera & Kleiza would be ideal as a trade partner. That 1st round pick might be a sticking point if only because the Nuggest are cheap. They may not feel Artest is the type they should be dealing for.
If I'm the Kings I don't take excessive salary for Artest in return. Only if I can dump his salary starting next season is he even worth trading to Denver for.
by pookeyguru on Jan 31, 2008 1:34 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
I think Denvedr wil dance but I'm with you on
by jjham15 on Jan 31, 2008 1:44 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Devin Harris/Brandon Bass
I don't think T-Mac is a great fit in Sacramento, but when you try to get involved in a Jason Kidd trade with Houston as a trading partner, that's the likely name to pop up.
You guys are saying we wouldn't want T-Mac. I just think Houston may be coming to that conclusion as well.
My real interest is in Devin Harris, because it looks like he is going to be available and he is a star point guard on the rise. He's better than Bibby, who is probably going to be dealt, and he's better than Udrih, who can still be a nice backup. Harris can also play some 2 guard.
I also like what I have seen of Brandon Bass. Dallas has given him increasing playing time and he has responded well. I'm not saying he's the second coming of Dwight Howard, but he's a lot more productive than Mikki Moore and a lot cheaper and younger.
If we pick up Kleiza, Francisco or someone of our wings including Bibby is going to be trade bait.
Bottom line in my opinion: we need to improve at the 1, 3, 4 and 5 positions to be more competitive in the West. We have some chips (Miller, Bibby, Artest, extra wings) to offer to make that happen, but Petrie needs to pull the trigger. Not just to make a trade, but to make a difference in this team's future.
by coolcatreportdotcom on Jan 31, 2008 2:08 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Ay, senor
We do need to improve the 1,3,4 and 5. But we do that by getting solid pieces we can depend on for the future at those positions who can grow into legitimate contributions. One might argue we have Shawes for the five, so what we're looking for when we trade Bibby or Artest is a 1, a 3 or a 4 - or oppurtunities to get one of them via the draft. Whilst Nene is high-risk, he could be high-reward and is there for the next 5 (which is bad if he's not good, but if Petrie likes him, I like him - Petrie is pretty good with the whole "eye-for-talent" thing), plus he matches up pretty nice athletically next to Shawes, and has energy.
Nene being the possible failed expectation, the Kleiza-Najera is another offer that's very intriguing. Kleiza is a sick shooter, cheap, and would be the outside-sharp-shooter everyone needs (plus he gets trained by Thorpe - the guy who helps Kmart and Cisco, so you know he's getting better).
Thogh, no one has yet to explain to me why the Nuggets would want this trade. I mean, they're pretty good defensively, Melo is a great three, and I'm not sure how great Iverson, Melo, and Artest would be together on the floor - they all need the ball to score. Throw in JR Smith, and reduce them to a Kenyon-Camby combo or take out the outside-help from Kleiza, and I'll be at a loss for how the team would operate. I'm sure Karl's got ideas, but holy bejeezles - this would be a big (physical stature) line-up:
Iverson
Melo
Artest
Martin
Camby
And they'll all be fast enough to kill small-ballers. Actually, never mind. I understand now. I think with Artest, the Nuggets beat the Spurs. They beat the Suns. They pound the Mavericks. And then they look East.
So, question self-answered.
by iashwash on Jan 31, 2008 3:11 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Nasty Reaction
T-Mac, of course, could hurt you because of being injury-prone. Kind of the Nene argument. In those trades I bandied about, it's probably still a wash because Bibby, Artest and Miller are not exactly "solid pieces we can depend on for the future." And these guys aren't exactly injury-free either.
Dumping Miller officially puts you into rebuild mode. But giving Spencer Hawes more playing time is how he's going to improve. I don't think he's going to do it four minutes at a time.
by coolcatreportdotcom on Jan 31, 2008 3:25 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Oh it does
I could be wrong with this, but I think everyone reading this thread was responding to that little nugget (sadly, pun intended) that Amick threw our way, and now extending it to the possibilities (because lets face it: dreaming up trades are fun, you know).
We lost track of the question, it seems. Is Nene or Kleiza+Najera good enough? Do you think Petrie considers it seriously? Can we milk anything more out of it?
I like Kleiza (reasons listed below), I like that Najera expires and we can turn that into Beno-for-a-while, and I like the idea that we should get a 2009 pick rather than a 2008. If we get those three items, I say go for it. Would Petrie do that? Not sure, he's giving up a load of talent for not a lot of return - and the Maloofs wouldn't like the forces-us-into-rebuilding-result TZ discussed. Plus, we'll be sooo wing-heavy, that trading Bibby has to come hand-in-hand with this trade, so I don't think this gets pulled off unless Petrie sees the other coming. Can Petrie get anything more out of this? I dunno, give 'em Justin Williams/Douby and we take back JR? Who knows.
by iashwash on Jan 31, 2008 4:03 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
FOR THOSE WHO NEED CONVINCING ABOUT Kleiza
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-29-73/Linas-Kleiza-s-Big-Night-is-No-Fluke.html
by iashwash on Jan 31, 2008 3:14 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
oh yeah,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_VWnKHMcIQ
"Top10" from 06-07. Two of them against your Sacramento Kings.
by iashwash on Jan 31, 2008 3:45 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
View from a Nuggets Fan
I never thought I would endorse a trade for Ron Artest, but this is how disappointing the Nuggets have been this season. I would trade Kleiza and Najera for Artest, but there is no way I would throw in a first round pick as part of the deal. The Nuggets traded for AI to win a title and this team as constituted will not do that. They still probably wouldn't with Artest on board, but they have a much better shot.
Also, after sampling that you tube video I think someone needs to update Kleiza's top ten plays. I remember a shot he had at Arco earlier this season...
by Jeremy on Jan 31, 2008 4:15 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Ouch
Why don't you just mention Robert Horry while you're here? :)
by otis29 on Jan 31, 2008 4:23 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
It was only a meaningless regular season game...
Besides it will help you guys get a better draft pick.
by Jeremy on Jan 31, 2008 4:25 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
View from a Kings fan stuck in Colorado
by Exhibit G on Jan 31, 2008 5:06 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
How about
GP "Isiah, I hear your still interested in Artest."
Isiah "Well, I've got to do something to save my job. But I'm not giving up Lee."
GP "Right, right. That guy you never play more than twenty minutes a night.What I was actually wondering is if you're looking at picking up anyone else?"
Isiah "You mean like for some kind of three team deal."
GP "Something like that. I've already talked to McHale and I've got his wish list."
Isiah spouts off a dozen big name players with huge contracts. GP writes furiously.
Isiah "Stay in touch man. And let me know what happens."
GP hangs up the phone and finished crossing the names Isiah gave him off a list of possible trade options. Interestingly enough, most of them are on McHale's list too.
GP "Well at least I won't screw up too bad."
by SavageBeast on Jan 31, 2008 5:43 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Kleiza pls
by kingme on Jan 31, 2008 6:15 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Every once in awhile
Unfortunately the link to the article has expired. Oui.
by pookeyguru on Jan 31, 2008 7:45 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Hilarious
Then, I read the quote on the bottom, and started laughing becuase it was the same quote in your post.
I'm an idiot.
by iashwash on Jan 31, 2008 10:23 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
A trade idea......
The Bulls definitely need some inside punch and Artest may still be welcome in Chi town. Kings get the best of both worlds, a young power and 2 expiring contracts. This deal would help both teams in the short term, Artest might be willing to stick it out in Chicago or go to NY via sign and trade since the Knicks and Bulls have such a good trade relationship. The Kings free up the space to sign Udrih and if Thomas doesn't develop the Kings can cut ties quickly.
by jjham15 on Jan 31, 2008 10:05 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
wow.
by iashwash on Jan 31, 2008 10:17 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
A trade idea...
The other thing is the Bulls might want to hold on to every player they have signed for less than the MLE as they will have to contend with Gordon and Deng's contracts next year (did they already extend Nocioni?).
All in all, if the Bulls wanted to make this deal I probably like it better than the Denver deals, as Thomas is less than half the price of Nene and he is not another 3 like Klieza.
by section214 on Jan 31, 2008 10:31 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Artest would be a nice back-up plan.
The Bulls play in the East which means they have another month or two to get things going.
by jjham15 on Jan 31, 2008 11:09 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Ummm
by pookeyguru on Jan 31, 2008 11:35 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Griffin is pretty much a non-factor in the trade.
by jjham15 on Jan 31, 2008 11:48 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
There's no doubt about that in any way
by pookeyguru on Jan 31, 2008 11:53 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Just trying to think of a way to get a cheap...
by jjham15 on Feb 1, 2008 12:07 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
It will be tough
by pookeyguru on Feb 1, 2008 12:41 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
That's a thought
by LeaguePassAddict on Feb 1, 2008 9:59 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
It's essentially 7 per over the next 3 seasons
by pookeyguru on Feb 1, 2008 1:49 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Thomas
by coolcatreportdotcom on Feb 1, 2008 12:51 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Noah plays solid basketball
Now, that being said, Tyrus Thomas is a beast.
by iashwash on Feb 1, 2008 9:48 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Artest and Ben
by coolcatreportdotcom on Feb 1, 2008 10:06 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Nene a serious No-No
The other trade though (including a first rounder) is cool with me. In Petrie I (frighteningly) trust.
by 27freethrows on Jan 31, 2008 10:38 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
please no!!!!
by Travis Mays Hayes on Jan 31, 2008 11:38 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

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