Spencer Hawes' Knee Has a Mind of Its Own
Amick with a discouraging report from Day 1 of training camp:
The second-year center [Spencer Hawes] has made it clear to the Kings that he won't make the same mistake twice, as he has refused to take part in the conditioning test the organization deemed mandatory.
The test, which Kings coach Reggie Theus said is conducted by "a lot of teams" in the NBA, lasts approximately 10 minutes and consists of extended sprints up and down the floor commonly known as suicides. Players must finish within a predetermined time period based on which position they play. Players also had the option of working out at the team's practice facility for two weeks before training camp and spending three days conditioning with strength coach Daniel Shapiro as a way of avoiding the test.
So, Hawes won't take the mandatory test he could have avoided by showing up in Sacramento two weeks early ... because he blames it for his knee injury last year. Not to call the man an exaggerator, but he was limping before training camp began last year (on media day). He hurt it in a pre-camp scrimmage. Maybe the sprints made it worse, but he was already injured. You can't blame the sprints for the injury.
This is completely the wrong way to deal with this. If you know going in you can't or don't want to do the sprints, then you take the alternate program (coming in early). Second-year players aren't allowed to be prima donnas. No one on this roster should be a prima donna.
Luckily, not everyone is insane.
Although the reasons varied, Hawes wasn't alone in his protesting of the test. Theus acknowledged that numerous players initially complained. Theus, who said he had considered skipping the test altogether before the griping began, said fifth-year shooting guard Kevin Martin implored him to hold the entire team accountable.
Outside of Hawes, all but John Salmons have completed it. The swingman has a slight groin injury and has been allowed to delay taking the test.
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41 comments
Comments
The test
More demanding on the knees than mixing it up with Shaq & Amare, or Bynum & Pau?
Come on Spence!
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
by section214 on Oct 1, 2008 8:05 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I have no problem with this
There are a multitude of cardiovascular tests that could replace this particular test that have less impact on a player’s knees. This isn’t freaking high school or a fraternity pledge. If a player’s request is reasonable and a reasonable accommodation can be found, then the parties should work together to find a solution. I will only have a problem with this if an alternative of a similar cardiovascular nature is not found or is refused by Spencer. After reading the article, I do not believe for one second that Spencer is being a prima donna or trying to weasel his way out of a tough drill. He sounds genuinely concerned – and given the monetary and career stakes, he ought to be.
Regarding TZ’s point about showing up two weeks early, I don’t know enough about Spencer’s schedule to respond. Was he still in school? If not, that is a tougher objection to overcome than the former.
by Kusian on Oct 1, 2008 8:31 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I Agree
As long as the team has Spencer do something else to “test” himself then i am OK with him not doing the sprints. If Shareef would have been able to play, I am sure that he would have not had to do the test either. That being said, it’s a bit worrisome that Hawes can’t do the test for fear of hurting himself. Is it just a matter of having a phobia about the sprints that he felt hurt him last year or is he just being a baby of sorts. Time will tell. I sure hope he really isn’t that fragile though.
He can shoot, and he looks great in a suit. Hey, everybody - It's REGGIE TIME!
by dalt99 on Oct 1, 2008 8:36 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bull
This test is a mandatory requirment from the team. There were also alternatives given to the player to avoid having to take the test. As long as the Kings are his employer (and paying him in excess of $2 million this season), I think they have a right to expect him to follow the rules.
Take the test or go with one of the alternatives Spencer…quit f-ing crying about it.
Kevin Pritchard has Chuck Norris tied up in the trunk of his car.
by otis29 on Oct 1, 2008 8:46 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yep
I have no problem with him saying that he doesn’t want to do the suicides because he feels it puts too much stress on his knees. But failing to take part in the alternative program comes off as completely self-absorbed. He’s a pro basketball player; he needs to step up and do the work that the organization assigns him. If that means a B- in his stupid class at UW, so be it. Hopefully Thompson can take some PT away from Shawes and light a fire under his belly.
by furious.d on Oct 1, 2008 8:53 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thank You for saying what I think Furious
Because you sum it all up nicely.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
by pookeyguru on Oct 1, 2008 12:14 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That is not sarcasm btw
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
by pookeyguru on Oct 1, 2008 12:15 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hawes could just run laps
What puts strain on the knees is stopping in mid sprint to touch the lines, then sprinting back. They could just make him run laps at a quicker pace to offset that.
by CloudyEyes on Oct 1, 2008 4:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Bee clarified later in the day - it's NOT suicides
He has to run four sets of 10 full court sprints. Each set must be run in under 62 seconds. Running all four sets takes about 10 minutes. The pressure on the knee from this is much less than it would be if he were running suicides.
Shut up and Coach
by Carl on Oct 1, 2008 8:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
agreed
“Take the test or go with one of the alternatives Spencer…quit f-ing crying about it.”
I agree. No crying. Take an alternative test.
by Kusian on Oct 1, 2008 8:51 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Bullshit
This is bullshit. If Hawes can’t do suicides for 10 minutes without hurting his knee, how is he going to run repeated fast breaks against Denver, Phoenix (when Shaq is out) or the Knicks? His position is essentially “too much running might hurt my knee.” If that’s the case, the Kings have a very, very serious problem with their second year center.
Shut up and Coach
by Carl on Oct 1, 2008 9:07 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Only a minute
The Bee’s stories from two years back are dead links now, but when Musselman tested the guys, I think big men had to finish the sprints in something like 58 seconds. It’s a freaking minute of sprints.
by Ziller on Oct 1, 2008 10:15 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
really!!! ???
If it is only 60 seconds then I might be forced to take back everything I said and slowly back away from the post embarrassed.
Please confirm if possible.
by Kusian on Oct 1, 2008 10:25 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
here is what the article says
“The test, which Kings coach Reggie Theus said is conducted by "a lot of teams” in the NBA, lasts approximately 10 minutes and consists of extended sprints up and down the floor commonly known as suicides."
by Kusian on Oct 1, 2008 10:30 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well
… there you go. This is obviously different from the old test, which Potapenko didn’t complete until mid-Nov.
by Ziller on Oct 1, 2008 1:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Those were the days...
E Muss and V Pot.
Napear: "Going in to the final timeout what did the coach tell you?"
Bibby: "I asked the coach if I should go and he said, I don't really know what he said."
by kangsfan on Oct 1, 2008 1:26 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
even 60 seconds
Is really, really hard. Look how exhausted most Olympic sprinters are after 10 seconds – these guys are going all out for 60 seconds. It’s not easy. Try running as fast as you possibly can for as long as you possibly can. If you go more than 30 seconds at full speed, your healthier than 99.9% of America.
Donte? Donte'! Donté?!?!
'spect da 'xtra E'
by iashwash on Oct 1, 2008 4:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
respectfully disagree
While I can see your point – and as a former coach for several years understand how difficult it is to single people out for unique treatment – I just can’t see how this particular drill is similar to game-type basketball situations. Players don’t run for 10 minutes straight and bend down and touch lines in a basketball game.
Players are unique; situations are unique. There has to be some reasonable flexibility. I simply will never embrace the Bear Bryant circa 1955 view of coaching and the coach/player relationship. These are grown men and professionals. As a coach, you have to trust them until they prove themselves untrustworthy. If Spencer begins a streak of whining about his knees and a stream of similar incidents ensue, then I think the coach and management can reasonably suspend their trust. Until then, they have to give him the benefit of the doubt and find a reasonable alternative.
I suspect that this is exactly what they will do.
by Kusian on Oct 1, 2008 10:23 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I understand
I understand your position as well, and I recognize that it’s a valid position to hold. My problem is less about making an exception than about what this says about Hawes physical health and/or mental makeup.
If Spencer Hawes knee can’t survive 10 minutes of suicides at 20 years old, there is no way in the world he’s going to survive an 82 game NBA season, plus camp, preseason and practice. We’re expecting a guy who can’t do 10 minutes of suicides to have a long NBA career? The article indicates that even oft-injured, 32 (going on 38) year-old Brad Miller completed the test.
Shut up and Coach
by Carl on Oct 1, 2008 1:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree
The 82 game season is rough enough as it is with the amount of games; the amount of sprints Hawes will accumulate helping to defend or running a fast break won’t help his knees feel any better. This incident doesn’t seem to bode well for extended minutes on the floor. I still feel Thompson will take minutes from this kid because he’s come into the situation and seems to be doing everything right; talking about his stay Sacramento the past two months to work with coaching staff, studying his notes on plays, and just arriving with the attitude that he’s going to work hard for everything. If his minutes are shortened, I hope Hawes doesn’t complain about them during the season because this whole sprinting situation or just his creaky knees in general could possibly be used as justification if the time comes (who knows?).
by kingsfan300 on Oct 1, 2008 2:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Should we really be surprised ...
… that a pro-lifer would object to suicides?
(from BallHype)
by jgurney on Oct 1, 2008 10:12 AM PDT reply actions 3 recs
Good point
Nice one, Jason. I had never considered the possibility of an ideological opposition to wind sprints.
by Ziller on Oct 1, 2008 10:15 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
What I don't understand
is how a story like this makes the news. Not that the story isn’t newsworthy, but how did the Bee get the story? It should be handled in house. I think this hurts Hawes, what a wuss. I love hearing about Kmart pushing for everybody to do it, that’s what team leaders are supposed to do. If Hawes can’t do suicides for 10 minutes his NBA career is going to short. The league is fast and getting faster and if he has trouble running at 19/20 what’s he bringing when he’s 27 or B Miller’s age? He knew he two options and he doesn’t want to do either. Reggie better run this prep star attitude right out of him.
"We are in the business of kicking butt and business is very, very good." - Charles Barkley
by Bluejohn on Oct 1, 2008 11:12 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
What I don't understand
Is how someone can’t understand how ANY story makes the news these days. The days of the media keeping quiet on the character flaws of our sports heroes are long over.
Kevin Pritchard has Chuck Norris tied up in the trunk of his car.
by otis29 on Oct 1, 2008 11:53 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe Blue John didn't get the memo Otis
You, in fact, do never know.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
by pookeyguru on Oct 1, 2008 12:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
To me there is another story buried in there.
Does anyone else have any concern about SHawes going over the top of the coach and speaking to GP about it? This seems like an early sign that Reggie may not have complete control of the team. Hopefully I am wrong but I just don’t feel too good about Reggie’s long term chances when these issues keep popping up every few weeks.
“I talked to Geoff, and we kind of got on the same page. Hopefully we can figure out something else, do something that’s not going to put so much stress on the knees.”
Napear: "Going in to the final timeout what did the coach tell you?"
Bibby: "I asked the coach if I should go and he said, I don't really know what he said."
by kangsfan on Oct 1, 2008 12:00 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I love that quote Kangs
It sums up Bibby nicely. (Totally off-topic, but it sums up much of what I always so heavily disliked about the Bibbster.)
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
by pookeyguru on Oct 1, 2008 12:18 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hadn't really noticed that
But that’s a very interesting point.
Kevin Pritchard has Chuck Norris tied up in the trunk of his car.
by otis29 on Oct 1, 2008 2:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have an alternative
He has to play defense on the layup lines. Everyone dribbles in for a layup and he has to get to blocking. If he blocks a predetermined amount then he passes.
Anyone else think he’s just scared to lose to Brad during suicides?
Kevin Martin, line 1 holding for you. Your destiny is calling. - Section214
by vfettke on Oct 1, 2008 12:25 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Couple of things
First, Damn TZ what’s with the title to this article? Nearly gave me a heart attack. I thought he’d blown his knee out or something.
Second, when you read the entire Bee article I don’t think Hawes is being a “prima donna”.
Should he have come in early and done the alternative option if he didn’t want to do the sprint test? Yes. Does this make me worry a bit about the state of his knee and his viable long term future in the league? Yes. Am I happy that Kevin took a leadership role on this? Yes. Do I think they will come up with an alternative and this won’t be a big deal? Yes.
Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott
by Kfan in Korea on Oct 1, 2008 2:11 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Old ways never die
This whole suicide sprints seems so reminiscent of “Full Metal Jacket”. So Neanderthal, an old fashion way of building team moral or administering punishment. In this day and age, is this the best way we can come up with to test stamina and building team unity?
Suicides are a 1 mile run with 80 starts and stops in 10 minutes. There’s no time when a center will put that much strain on his knees in an actual game. If all they really wanted to do was check stamina they should be able to find a way to compromise.
And, even if he takes the test it doesn’t prove his knees are good. And, if he’s right why take a chance with him getting hurt. Actually, it shouldn’t be up to the player, coach, or gm, it should be up to the medical staff.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
by HighTops on Oct 1, 2008 4:21 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
True
But it’s almost beside the point. It’s a team rule, and one that can be alternatively addressed by coming in two weeks early. You don’t like the law? Change the law. But until then, abide by the law. Hawes could have avoided all of this by simply coming in early…or by coming to an agreement with the coaching staff prior to this becoming an issue.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
by section214 on Oct 1, 2008 5:31 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Section
Once people understand that most of us have issue with how Spencer handled the whole issue, as opposed to not wanting to run those types of things to help protect his knees, something many of us can understand, then I think this will go away.
I’m annoyed that he didn’t address it knowing it would happen. I’m also annoyed that he didn’t mention about attempting a resolution with Reggie Theus or anybody on the staff first. Not one single mention, and while I’m at it, it’s a bit foreshadowing for a piece I’ve been working on with regards to Reggie, of this by Reggie today in the news. I’m happy to see that Theus is taking more of the high road here.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
by pookeyguru on Oct 1, 2008 10:14 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Clarified
The test is NOT suicides. It consists of sets of 10 full court sprints. Each set must be done in less than 62 seconds and the four sets are done in about 10 minutes. It ends up being about 7 tenths of a mile with 40 starts and stops. I don’t see how this is different from changing ends of the court multiple times in a fast-paced game.
Shut up and Coach
by Carl on Oct 1, 2008 8:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
What????
These are professional athletes run the sprints or find another profession.
by Beagle12 on Oct 1, 2008 5:35 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
As an update
Amick clarifies the conditioning test:
As it turns out, they aren’t suicides (which entail running in intermittent lengths on the floor back and forth). For big men like Hawes, they are required to run the full length of the court 10 times in 62 seconds (The time is reduced for other positions). That counts as one set, and they are required to do four sets with a short rest in between each one. Thus, the entire exercise takes 10 minutes or so. And, yes, you have to complete each set by the timeline in order to pass the test.
by Ziller on Oct 1, 2008 7:52 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
God Bless Amick
He’s rarely one to stir up fake drama. And this isn’t fake drama. This is Spencer being the politician he thinks he can be.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
by pookeyguru on Oct 1, 2008 9:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Section
Once people understand that most of us have issue with how Spencer handled the whole issue, as opposed to not wanting to run those types of things to help protect his knees, something many of us can understand, then I think this will go away.
I’m annoyed that he didn’t address it knowing it would happen. I’m also annoyed that he didn’t mention about attempting a resolution with Reggie Theus or anybody on the staff first. Not one single mention, and while I’m at it, it’s a bit foreshadowing for a piece I’ve been working on with regards to Reggie, of this by Reggie today in the news. I’m happy to see that Theus is taking more of the high road here.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
by pookeyguru on Oct 1, 2008 10:14 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ignore this---accidental post (sbn 2.0 I shake my fist at you)!
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
by pookeyguru on Oct 1, 2008 10:15 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

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