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Jhericurl jerrymandering, circle jerks, lawyer locker-room(ing), and other fabolous thing ama jigs

It's not often young niggas get a chance to enjoy riches in legitimate fashion So many of us say fuck it get a bucket and run up in something and keep smashing It's all about survival but jealous rivals make it hard for us to do this So everybody got a gun but when we was younger our only weapon was our two fists Now who missed the first lesson in life don't be no punk If you a man have heart be a savage whether you sober or drunk I seen niggas in the pen getting their ass dug out over some hop or a pack of Kamels But that's the game home boy and every move you make is a gamble Them squares don't under stand so it takes niggas like me to explain it I show vengeance violence and hatred because underneath it's so much pain I aint no sissy or punk so don't trip when you see me crying A nigga just hella mad his partners is dead and his folks keep on dying My enemys feel the same way they want me dead they think I'm the nigga that put they partner 6 feet under and left his son with no father figure I live day by day not giving a fuck and when they ask me why I pause for a minute then I reply because lifes a bitch and then you die

I apologize for the long lyrics, but I think in many ways it sorta describes what I'm writing in this hopefully shorter than it will probably will end up being. Oh wellzies.

I've had an interesting month. I got hired for a new job, got fired 4 days after starting, started school with a refresher algebra course, that I missed the whole first week due to the new job that I got canned from, quit and returned to my old job, and I'm feeling good about understanding distributive properties. The victory is sort of in the small things realm. Or as the saying can be said," Tasteful in small things is tasteful in all things." Probably not though. I'm not sure I'm tasteful, but I'm pretty sure I'm a fat crude loudmouth blow. At least I don't love shooting Communists. (Dick Cheney here I come! I'm kidding that was an accident. Wink!) That's my consolation prize. But this isn't about me. This is about Reggie Theus. So pay attention from here on out.

When Reggie Theus went to UNLV it might have been considered a mistake by some. (I'd love to find proof, but I wasn't alive in the mid 70's, and it really doesn't matter in the end.) UNLV wasn't a major program, at that time in the mid 70's, and Reggie's success with UNLV (including a Final 4 appearance in 1977) helped laid the groundwork for his leaving the program in 1978 as a Junior. (Yes, he left early. I didn't know that either.) So, by the time he's in Chicago, and has played for, SEVEN, coaches in 6 years, before he's traded, and ends up in KC and Sactown eventually. Ever look up Reggie's career sometime? It's rather interesting. His durability, his scoring, his passing all stack up with many of the games best. The only thing he didn't do on the NBA level was win games. And I ask, and this is a rather important question, how many All-Stars did he play with over the years? Well, to my recollection, he played with a couple at the least. He played with Dominique Wilkins in Atlanta. He played with Artis Gilmore in Chicago. And that's pretty much it. He left Sacramento before Danny Ainge came around. Reggie has pretty much and seen or heard it all. I think given all his experience it might not be worth saying he's on thin ice when all he has to do is steer a team with a lot of young talent and no real enviable position beyond seeing Spencer Hawes, Jason Thompson, Donte Greene, Beno Udrih and Kevin Martin work together as a strong core. Throw Garcia in that mix, and maybe Shelden Williams, or somebody like that, and pretty much you have a young team full of young talent that if it meshes, and that's a big if, you got a wide array talent of abilities.

When Reggie played most of the time the franchise's he played on lacked stability. Atlanta was the most stable of all the teams, and even then that was for only one year. This Kings team is the first time in Reggie's coaching/playing career where the most drama might be coming from his curly hair and his pouty lips. In other words, if Theus sticks to quality, but fairly colorless sound bites, he will do much better than he did with say, Sam Amick and Jim Crandell. But, and this is a major but, Theus also managed to sugar coat a major issue which some have forgotten almost entirely (in this context anyway) now. Nobody gives Theus credit for keeping together a fracture unit together. That's very hard. Some say the Kings team had no offensive semblance, but I ask this, and this is a rather major but, but how do you do this with a 1 on 1 ball hog like Ron Artest around? I love Reggie's trying to adopt a version of the triangle. (There are a few, but the long & short of it is, if you don't know who invented the triangle, i'll give you a hint: Pete Newell. I'm not saying Tex Winter is a chump, because he isn't, but Winter and Newell both used and adopted/introduced different methods. Winter just stuck around coaching longer than Newell did.) Either way I like that Theus wants to teach young players, and players who have seen a new system, in say Kevin Martin's case, 4 times now in 4 years, and isn't embarrassed by it. I hope it continues.

I didn't like the Spencer Hawes episode. I don't think anyone here did for that matter. Besides making fun of Shawes for being a Republican (something I could do for days and will choose to refrain at this time for a variety of reasons), and pointing out his tact was as subtle as dropping a bomb on a daycare in Iraq, one could be disappointed that the kid talked about "creating" a solution when one was already presented. I was also disappointed that not a single person mentioned Theus with the notable exception of not having power in that particular "situation". But, and this is of course bad grammar and form and all that sorta nit picky editor bullshit, Shawes ending up doing it anyway. I think this is so for 3 reasons:

1) Because Geoff Petrie didn't back the power play and it ended there 2) Because Kevin Martin chose to become a leader and say something to Reggie, as opposed to going to Geoff and being pissed off that Shawes went around Reggie in the same way Kevin could have done, but chose not to 3) Shawes had to put up & shutup and just do the damn thing.

Now, the first point. One of the things that irritates me about all the Billy Beane "love" is that he isn't the best GM of this decade. He isn't really a top 5 GM of the decade. I don't really give a crap how much money the team had to spend, and all that sorta nonsense, but the Twins have every problem the A's do and put out better teams overall throughout the decade than the A's have. Why doesn't anybody mention Terry Ryan (even though he's no longer the GM in Minny now) as the best GM of the decade? Because Moneyball wasn't written that's why. That stupid ass book (and so many pointless points being made to boot) have permeated much analysis of the A's since. Which is a shame. Because all the Billy Beane critics could just point out that the farm system of the decade has been a mess. Starting with the "Moneyball" draft and the firing of Grady Fuson. That is my side A's point.

The real point is that Geoff does not run the team. He is in charge of the whole bubblepath that is Kings mania. The job of running the team day to day is Reggie Theus'. That's part of the job description. It goes with the territory and the like. That's just the way it is. Geoff knows it, and I suspect Shawes may not make that same mistake again. I seriously doubt this will teach him to change his approach, but if he keeps getting rebuffed, and I don't want to speculate much here because I think it's based on too many what "ifs", but this is a potential major problem. My hope is that Shawes mistake was one of youth, as opposed to one of arrogance right wingerism. Well, being a right winger is being an arrogant fool, but that's another story. Ugh, I made fun of Republicans again! How dare I? (Well, I'll even it out. Democrats have no backbone, and no ability to create headway with the American public. No willingness to point out Welfare is pointless for instance, well that is if companies would actually invest in employee health care, another issue all together, So there, I've made fun of the Dem's and Repub's. They all suck. For posterity I'm a registered Dem who holds his head in shame at the very thought of it. Still voting for Obama though, and I'm not particularly thrilled about that either. Oui vey. This just keeps getting worse.)

If Reggie Theus did anything right, and he did many times over, he kept talking about basketball. He criticized Donte Greene for not being up to standards defensively. Good! He told Martin his adjustment won't be easy. And all the rest. He did those things because coaches have to do that. Rather than not adopting a system for a ground of players, especially many who were picked because of their abilities to fit in a particular type of system I suspect, then Reggie is doing the right thing by not saying anything in return. And being that I'm in the Theus corner at this moment, if for no other reason because I think the guy deserves the benefit of a doubt for coming into a franchise in major transition, I think pointing out how little power he has is a moot point. As long as he is a head coach he has power. I think Scott Skiles as a lame duck last December proved this point eloquently.

About the only thing I agree with people, who believe Reggie Theus is not the right coach for this team moving forward, is that I think a coach with an agenda, or the wrong fit for this team could damage the development of the young talent in this group. I don't see any real evidence, yet, of Reggie doing that. Or having done so in the past for that matter. Which brings me to the rap of "he doesn't play young players."

Well, and I gotta say this in Reggie's defense, and yet not another single person mentioned it in the Shelden Williams discussion, but a relationship is a 2 way start. Perhaps one reason Shelden didn't play more because Reggie didn't have a good feel for Shelden, and because Shelden wasn't doing everything he could to get Reggie to understand, who had his own share of problems by March I realize, where he stood on things in the "feel" department as well. It takes 2 to tango, and Reggie wasn't tango'n with Shelden in April when there was no reason not to play him. Or maybe he was a bit wasn't he? 24 mins vs Houston and Williams had decent production. (Made both FT's, and grabbed 6 boards. I've seen much worse lines.) 11 mins vs the Clippers. 19 mins 2 days later vs Denver. 22 mins a night later vs the Lakers. Overall, he averaged nearly 24 points a night for Theus in April. I don't think the lack of production for Shelden was just on Shelden himself given he had only a few weeks to play for Reggie up to that point, but if you look at Shelden's whole year it's really hard to find a high point. And anybody choosing one is focusing on something like steal's or assists. Because he had a few "notable" games, like he made an outside contribution, but in a blowout game does that mean much for his confidence? I don't think Shelden's bad play is entirely on Reggie last year, but I do think it's up to Reggie to give Shelden a clean slate this season. I hope Shelden and Reggie work together. Because I believe SW can fill a badly needed physical enforcer type void this team needs. (Similar to Scot Pollard without the stupid hair do's and dumb clown comments.)

I don't think it's fair to say Reggie didn't play his young players. Spencer Hawes claimed he didn't want to hurt his knee running end to end as he believed that's where some of his problems came last year. (I doubt that, but I'm a cynical fat prick. This doesn't help matters either.) What young player was Reggie supposed to play? John Salmons? Francisco Garcia? Kevin Martin?!?! Beno Udrih? Kenny "Woofer" Thomas? If Reggie Theus doesn't have a young team, and he really didn't this past season, than how can he play young players, particularly when the youngest member missed almost all of training camp due to a knee surgery on knee's he's had operated on several times since he was a YOUNG TEENAGER. Clearly, and I don't think I'm alone in this, but some of the slack Reggie deserves I think is being pushed by cynicism that Reggie will make winning the priority. Sorry, not to be contrarian with things I've said in the past, such as losing Artest doesn't matter ultimately because the team isn't winning anyway, and this is one of many examples, but it's Reggie's job as Head Coach of the mighty Kings TO WIN! That's his job. That's what he's there for. To prepare the 12 players on the active roster to WIN! This isn't a college fight song where most of the words are complete propaganda like crap. The name of the game in the pro's is to win. That's what he gets paid the big bucks for. That's why the players get paid lot's of money. They are not there to sit around and wander about a career clipping a poodle's toe-nail's. That's for Lou Diamond Phillips to do. I think Reggie's LAST job is to "develop" the young talent. That is there job. To develop, to pay attention, and to learn.

"You gentleman, have one job here. That is to listen, and that is to learn." "Sergeant, isn't all of this stuff just a bunch of bullshit?" "When I was in Vietnam I had a friend, and he was taking a smoke break, like you and me here, and he was smoking when he was shot. The sniper could see his cherry of his cigarette and that's how he shot him." That is development of youth. That is making a point to disillusioned youth, or some such. (I'm talking about the movie Tigerland btw. Quotes might not be exactly accurate, but they're close enough. I don't feel like sorting through the movie and 20 minutes to get them completely perfect.) Reggie's job is to prepare the whole team, young players too, to help them and to push them in a position to win as many games. If he wasn't doing that, and I'd take exception to it, then he deserves to be fired. If he's pushing this team to win all the games it can, then he should be commended. Because this team will guarantee to increase the amount of gray in his hair already. I wouldn't even be surprised to see him go bald by the end of this season if he sticks around. Why? Well, why do you think? Coaches are obsessive. Reggie is a bit that way too. It's probably why he coaches.

I personally am a fan of what Reggie has done, outside of the Amick/Crandell interview, which was in excellent contrast to the Peachosaurux Rex/Fat Boy Fake Laugh interview, and the incessant harping of Artest to be necessary, the whole cell phone brouhaha, and the John Salmons/Mikki Moore fines, I think Theus has done quite well for himself. You keep a fractured team together and see how you do. Did anybody around here care? No, we are all bitching and moaning and whining about the low draft pick. On draft day many of us, myself to a degree included, were moaning about losing on Jerryd Bayless. And, you know what? I'm glad. Bayless is not a player the Kings need. They already have one combo guard they can't get on the court with Quincy Douby, and even then his flaws are such that getting him on the court without a real PG is an actual problem. In otherwords, the Kings went big with an unusual pick, but a nice roll of the dice given what they had to work with.

Here's what I think Reggie has in his favor this time around. Kevin Martin likes him. Which is a big plus. Because Geoff Petrie likes Kevin too. Which is another big plus. Reggie and Beno understand each other. Petrie is satisfied with Beno. Okay, so Shawes hate's Reggie's ass, but you can't win them all. If Reggie is successful at integrating Jason Thompson over the course of say, 3 months, into the regular rotation I'll be pleased. The kid doesn't have to morph into a regular redneck by Halloween. April will do just fine. The best thing about this roster is that there aren't any major moaning & groaning types on this roster with any real power (Shawes & Greene have much time to develop this trait). That makes it easier too. I think, as I said earlier, Reggie is doing the right thing by installing a set offense. Phil Jackson has said that it takes 3 years to learn the whole intricacy's of the whole triangle. I don't think Reggie has any control over a few things. Health of course being the big thing. Another is the perception of how people inside the franchise are perceiving the job, and whether he's doing the type of job they think makes him worth retaining.

My feeling is simple. If Reggie gets this team to 35 wins, helps Thompson, and perhaps Greene to a small extent, and see's Shawes expand his role, this is perhaps a dangerous team next season. Reggie is about being competitive. He knows first hand how much apathy and frustration come with constant losing. He also knows he's probably not getting this team into the playoffs. (That, of course, is not to say he still shouldn't try.) My feeling is that this team will over achieve again as it did last year. Some food for thought: The pythagoreon theorem for the following seasons. 2004-05: Pythag: 48-34 Actual Record: 50-32 Coach: Rick Adelman 2005-06: Pythag: 46-36 Actual Record: 44-38 Coach: Rick Adelman 2006-07: Pythag: 35-47 Actual Record: 33-49 Coach: Eric Musselman 2007-08: Pythag: 33-49 Actual Record: 38-44 Coach: Reggie Theus

I'm not a total fan of any one metric for a variety of reasons. As I said to somebody earlier today, it's like just about any tool you choose. You mis-appropriate the use of the tool, and it isn't worth much of anything except, or this is usually the case anyway, destroy something. A Hammer is a great example. It's great at keeping something together, but it's terrible at being worthwhile otherwise. It's use is putting two things together by inserting an object by holding it together. A coach can't afford to be that clear cut or black & white though. Nobody can in real life. It isn't that simple. Part of the hammer analogy was to point out that some metrics are useful, but up to the point that they're useful, and no more. Part of the hammer analogy was to point out that Reggie as a coach has to choose when to be a hammer and a flower child. He's got to pick and choose which method works best. And with a mediocre, veteran laden, poorly mish mashed group to work with as a rookie coach, it's not exactly the way to kick off a coaching career. After all, particularly after a playing career that couldn't have been more dis-jointed if he was Vlade Divac's conditioning routine, it's understandable that Reggie was defensive in April about the way he defended Artest. He was doing, as a coach, what he should have done. He never did, in fact, criticize Kevin Martin. It was far more subtle than that. He was illustrating how difficult a rock & a place is for anyone, and the more Kevin Martin kept the pressure on, and the more he kept his mouth shut, the more it became obvious that Reggie will end up coaching the players in the Evil Cowtown. Because that's the only choice he has.

I believe Reggie had an underrated pro career as a player. I don't think his college career gets as much respect as it should either. I think his route into coaching was strange, but so was Phil Jackson's. There isn't any one way, but simply the one that makes it work for you. As TZ stated many times during the coaching search of last year, the very pick is as much a crapshoot as anything. The team wanted a different coach, but in Stan Van Gundy's defense, the moment Orlando says "Yes", you come running faster than Michael Johnson hopped up on speed, crystal meth, and crack put together. You go and you don't care if you run over little old ladies, school children, special needs people, and the like. You just go. And you don't care what feelings were hurt. With Reggie, and Brian Shaw, in all likelihood the most viable 2 candidates of the remaining 3 the Kings were looking at, I think the Kings didn't really have a choice with Reggie. At least Reggie wasn't bad mouthing the Kings. (I'm not sure he ever bad mouthed Sacramento the way somebody like Chris Webber did in fact. Ever.) I think because Reggie came into a seriously flawed mediocre team on the cusp of making major roster changes, with more to come certainly this season, then what you're asking for the coach is to do the impossible. And the more you ask him to do the impossible (I suppose a woman could do this job, but I'm not really sure it would be worth it to a woman. Wouldn't being Pat Summit be worth it? For crying out loud, there are alot of guys who would love to be as good a coach as Summit is. I'm just saying. A heavyweight is a heavyweight. Still not sure why a woman would want to coach a male pro league), or worse demand that the impossible be attainable, which is the worse thing the Maloof's could do at this point, what you want a coach who is willing to do the best he can with what he got. Which is why all the crap about Reggie's particular warts, and what not, along with the idea that a head coach's job is about developing young talent, which is a major reason why there are assistants in the first place, or lovingly referred to as the army of 3 piece suits, a stupid 20 year old kid not paying attention to anything but himself mouths off, and a bunch of neurotic fans are pining to make Reggie into something he's not. Leave the pretty boy alone and do his job. That is if you're making hollow criticisms. Any examples of this? "He doesn't coach defense." Riiiiiight.

If he hangs himself than he does. But if you set the noose to the expectation of something that doesn't exist, like seeing Justin Thompson morph into an All-Star by next season, then you might realize the guy does the best he can with what he has. And that, despite his winning titles with a female point on TV, is the hallmark of any quality coach on the pro level. Not dumb comments about other places, or how about the spirit of chi is essential to maintaining the integration of self in crucial moments or whatever stupid bullshit Phil Poopy Mouth is spouting today. Reggie Theus doesn't have to be hippie Phil. Reggie Theus has to be Reggie Theus and be comfortable with it. Which I imagine he is. It would be nice if the rest of us joined a discussion that didn't start with "he doesn't do this or that", and leave the actual coaching to those who do it. I'm not saying fans can't be critical, and all that. Hell, I say fuck that. That's one of the points of a blog right? What would be nice if Reggie got fired on the merits of doing a poor job, as opposed to the merits of an opinion of owners who've chosen to make decisions that the team is paying now. It would be nice, for a change, that squawking about concepts is a thing of the past, and that doing them is the standard. What, in essence, the point is, is that rather than pre-determining what a coach's role is, let's participate in a more difficult, but in the long run more useful, task of judging Reggie's success or failure as the head coach of our beloved neurotic basketball titans, on what he's actually succeeded or failed at. Not at what we would like him to be. Personally, and hopefully I'm not alone, judging Reggie's time here on the merit's of his actual coaching and actual usefulness is far more important than hoping he plays a young player. It would be really nice, if nothing else, that Reggie gets a chance to hold an interview without having to cater to 5 sides all at once. Because doing the rubiks cube while talking, chewing gum, emailing Bill, shooting some elk to hang at the club, watching not so idle threats from your remaining near all-star on the roster, hearing how you failed on a job that simply standing was a success to begin with, and doing it with the belief you did what you could, then hell I guess Reggie sucks. On the other hand if Hippie Phil could have won 42 games with that bunch last season he might have earned his 10 million dollars. And the 9 championship rings. And all the other accolades he's gotten. For once, rather than sticking Reggie in this poorly designed cardboard box that is wet, and ready to crumble any second, I say give him a modest oak box to work with. After that there are no more excuses. Reggie it's time to go to work. I hope the six shooter was a good time. Because it's likely an Evil Cowtown isn't pining for you to get there. In some ways Reggie has come full circle. I say it's time for a beginning of a new circle. And for a new criticism of coaching that starts with common sense. YOU CAN DO IT!

My name is Barack Obama, and I support this message.

(This is a FanPost from a member of the Sactown Royalty community. The views expressed come from the member, and not Sactown Royalty staff.)

7 recs | Comment 24 comments

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A few issues here...

First and foremost. A female coach in the NBA? Didn’t you ever see the movie “Eddie”? It’s doomed from the start. Mostly because of the involvement of Whoopi Goldberg and Greg Ostertag, but still…

On a more serious note, I’m deeply offended here pookey. How can you claim to be basketball fan, and at the same time talk about how this season’s efforts will lead to a potentially good/great season the following year? As a basketball fan, you’re not allowed to look beyond the current season. Absolutely not. If we all start doing that, then we’ll end up with a ton of really well thought-out observations and opinions, like the rambling masterpiece above.

Rec’d fo sho.

Never forget: I am a complete idiot

by Exhibit G on Oct 6, 2008 10:02 PM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

What's up with that?

No pre-season post to work the kinks out? You’ve gone right to mid-season form.

My only beef is in regards to the hollow criticisms. If my criticisms cannot be hollow, you leave me with nothing.

Rec’d

SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Oct 6, 2008 10:45 PM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

originally I was going to only read the first paragraph or two

and then go back to the massive workload I have. Instead, I read the whole damn thing. And it’s all your fault.

Rec’d, not merely because cursing you out for a good read would only make me look even more ridiculous, but mostly because this is some great, original opines on the Theus topic.

You drew me in with that first paragraph, hooked me like a fish and kept reeling me in. You crazy, and apparently fat, bastard.

Donte? Donte'! Donté?!?!
'spect da 'xtra E'

by iashwash on Oct 7, 2008 3:21 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

To everyone

This had been a long time coming. The first piece had “Limellight” by Rush, but that was before the Spencer Hawes incident, and well I deleted that thing. Oh well That’s the way these things go sometimes.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on

by pookeyguru on Oct 7, 2008 6:28 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Shooting communists

is God’s work, Pookie. Embrace it!

by Kusian on Oct 7, 2008 1:04 PM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I guess im SOL Kusian

I don’t believe in god (or religion) so that’s that. (Not a religious statement. Those who believe go to it. Don’t care if you do or don’t. Your business. This blurb is now finished thank the lord.) Mwahahahahahahahahahaha

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on

by pookeyguru on Oct 7, 2008 1:22 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

he's been doing it since the draft.

Shows how much we needlessly loved Justin Williams.

Donte? Donte'! Donté?!?!
'spect da 'xtra E'

by iashwash on Oct 7, 2008 8:18 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yeah I will admit I do make that mistake sometimes

I try not to, but somewhere in my sub conscious I’m still yearning for a bit of 3-wil.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on

by pookeyguru on Oct 8, 2008 4:40 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I am not in season shape

and cannot get through all that.

eternal skeptical optimist

by lietothegirls on Oct 8, 2008 7:54 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Then don't

Nobody is forcing you to read a 4000 essay on your treatment of Reggie Theus.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on

by pookeyguru on Oct 8, 2008 11:42 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

A 4000 word essay^

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on

by pookeyguru on Oct 8, 2008 11:43 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Research
Now, the first point. One of the things that irritates me about all the Billy Beane “love” is that he isn’t the best GM of this decade. He isn’t really a top 5 GM of the decade. I don’t really give a crap how much money the team had to spend, and all that sorta nonsense, but the Twins have every problem the A’s do and put out better teams overall throughout the decade than the A’s have.

Seriously man. If you’re going to spend the time to write a post this long, at least spend the couple minutes to do some research before posting incorrect information.

Year Team Wins Losses
2000 Athletics 91 70
2001 Athletics 102 60
2002 Athletics 103 59
2003 Athletics 96 66
2004 Athletics 91 71
2005 Athletics 88 74
2006 Athletics 93 69
2007 Athletics 76 86
2008 Athletics 75 86
Total Athletics 815 641

Year Team Wins Losses
2000 Twins 69 93
2001 Twins 85 77
2002 Twins 94 67
2003 Twins 90 72
2004 Twins 92 70
2005 Twins 83 79
2006 Twins 96 66
2007 Twins 79 83
2008 Twins 88 75
Total Twins 776 682

And to top it off, the Twins have yet to have a team as good as those early 2002-2003 A’s teams, and the A’s haven’t had a team as bad as that 2000 team.

by chri5 on Oct 9, 2008 5:15 PM PDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

it was a small side point

Apparently you missed the overall point too. Leave it to an A’s fan to an argue a hollow point.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on

by pookeyguru on Oct 9, 2008 10:38 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I’m not going to waste my time reading through that overly wordy post. Learn to make points more succinctly. It may even help you in remedial math class.

by chri5 on Oct 12, 2008 8:27 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Sure thing boss

Whatever you say Massah. You knowz all Missah Clown.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on

by pookeyguru on Oct 13, 2008 3:13 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

If I wanted to make points more succinctly Mr. Clown

I would do so. I choose to make them lengthy, and unbearable. Oh, and have a good day fucking yourself.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on

by pookeyguru on Oct 13, 2008 3:16 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Just a Quick Comment

I know it was a side point (and is now probably way off topic), but from what I’ve noticed in your Beane comments, Pookey, it seems that you are undervaluing him in response to the fact that most people overvalue him.

I have to say that it’s tough not to put Beane in the list for Top 5 GMs for the decade, and I’ll also say that I have no problem with anyone who says that Terry Ryan is also in the Top 5 (nor do I have an issue with anyone saying he’s better). Both have made the most of their teams’ financial limitations.

The Twins used a similar “buy low” technique as the A’s, but also took a page from the 90’s Indians and locked up their young talent. I think this is what puts them slightly ahead of the A’s, in general.

As a Giants fan, I’d put Beane significantly ahead of Sabean, and the Giants almost won it all on his watch. If you want to compare farm systems, you have to look at the San Francisco’s of the league as well as the Minnesota’s.

Sorry for the off-topic comment long after the discussion was had . . . I just thought I’d add my two cents.

In on-topic related news, great post. Rec’d.

by smgmatt on Oct 21, 2008 8:01 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

It's not that smg

It’s not that at all. The team’s farm system is so bad they’ve traded every “young” talent they had in the earlier part of this decade to re-stock the farm system and improve itself for the future. The reason the White Sox gave up talented young players is because they’re developing more talent in their farm than the A’s are. The A’s are awful at developing their own young talent. Utterly, and fantastically, awful at it.

But, and this is a major but, the biggest news to date is that very few people recognize that Beane isn’t running the team anymore.

I agree Beane had his moments that made him top 5, but he hasn’t been there for some time. I say that’s fine and it is what it is. I should be able to criticize Beane any way I want though. Some A’s fan shouldn’t have to come here and post some absurdly record post (I knew the A’s had some better records sheesh) among other things to bash Terry Ryan and his equally difficult time in Minny. Either way, it’s just one of those htings. The Billy Beane bashers who don’t criticize him for being a me first Moneyball writer guy are just one of those things. I thought Moneyball had only one kind of value, which was to give a brief basic explanation of how Bill James see’s sabermetrics. After that, it’s mostly Billy Beane cock blowing and propaganda for the most part.

Other than that, thanks for reading my Reggie Theus post smg. And have a good day. :)

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on

by pookeyguru on Oct 21, 2008 8:48 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Agreed

I agree completely that nobody should be above criticism, and as a fan you are free to criticize as you will.

As for Moneyball, if you can step back from the Beane-specifics of it, there’s a good underlying theme there about shopping for undervalued skills and getting the most value for your payroll dollars. In the case study in the book, those skills also happen to be some of the most important (and yet overlooked for DECADES) skills in the game of baseball. The idea that a major market team would use these same concepts is scary (and has since started happening). One of the specific examples given was that Beane tried to acquire Kevin Youkilis from the Red Sox as a throw-in player. I think it was Theo Epstein that said it almost happened, too. That’s the kind of thing that can happen if you are looking for undervalued skills when everyone else is looking for the hot topic.

If you liked anything about Moneyball, you might like The Blindside (also by Michael Lewis). In general, it’s about the evolution of the Left Tackle position in the NFL, and there’s some good bits about LT as well as Bill Walsh. The “Billy Beane” lead role is played by Michael Oher, LT for Ole Miss. I don’t want to ruin it for anyone who wants to read it, but he got some help from Sean Touhy, the voice of the Memphis Grizzlies. It’s a light read just like Moneyball was, but I enjoyed it.

The connection I make with The Blindside and Moneyball is that the underlying theme of The Blindside is that lineman used to be considered interchangeable, and were paid as such . . . until NFL players were granted free agency. After that, the LT was almost instantly one of the highest paid players on every team.

Oh, don’t feel bad about the farm system for Oakland . . . the Giants’ farm is much worse.

by smgmatt on Oct 21, 2008 9:48 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Since the Giants moved to the Bay and Oakland followed 10 years later

Oakland has been far more successful. That’s all I’m going to say. And all that needs to be said. And that is not by any way a slap in the face to those who are Giants fans here as there are many.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on

by pookeyguru on Oct 21, 2008 5:28 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

50 years...

…on the West Coast and zero Championships. I think that says enough.

by smgmatt on Oct 22, 2008 7:43 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

The Giants have a farm system?

SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Oct 21, 2008 7:31 PM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yeah

They have chickens and cows and everything.

Maybe that’s why they can’t bring up a solid position player.

by smgmatt on Oct 22, 2008 7:40 AM PDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

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