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Impressions from the Preseason Opener: Portland 110, Sacramento 81

* I will not talk about Spencer Hawes. I will not talk about Spencer Hawes. It's only preseason. I will not talk about Spencer Hawes. I will not talk about Spencer Hawes.

* Shelden Williams was an active, energetic force, for the most part. His offense might possibly never develop beyond the garbage-type role he has shown Sacramento so far -- I really don't like watching him take 15-footers, this offense should be able to get better looks than that -- but his defense is solid at worst, and he's the best rebounder on the team for now. If that 15-footer improves, and were he a step faster in transition, he could be a poor man's Udonis Haslem. Given the team's other deficiencies, that's not good enough to start. But as a first big off the bench a la Joel Pryzbilla, it could work. Unfortunately, that $4.3 million salary for '09-10 is a little too high for that type of player.

* Through three quarters, Donté Greene had me cautiously optimistic: he did a few neat things, like the early putback and an elbow three and some quick rotations on defense ... but he also spent his time out around the perimeter, despite being possibly the most athletic King, and one who can get higher than anyone else around the rim. Drawing 10 FTAs in the fourth, though ... that will get a thumbs up from me. Greene finished with 18 points on 11 FGAs in 24 minutes. What a freaking firestarter.

* Beno Udrih attacked the rim, as I had hoped he would. In retrospect, Portland is probably one of the two or three teams in the NBA where that's not the best idea.

* Francisco Garcia looked good, ready to start the regular season. John Salmons did not.

* Simply woeful offense once Portland ratcheted up its (frightening) defense. From the late second quarter until well into the fourth, the Kings settled almost every time down. Kevin Martin and Brad Miller, those absences matter a lot. But still: Udrih, Garcia and Salmons should be able to get to comfortable spots and work it out to get some buckets. Pretty discouraging offense stretch there.

* I had completely forgotten that Portland has Ike Diogu and Nicolas Batum on its roster. Completely not fair, guys. Completely not fair.

* Four factors:

Pace Eff eFG FT/FG OREB% TOr
SAC 93.0 87.1 31.6% 43.4 24.0 14.0
POR 118.3 55.2% 32.5 25.0 11.8

That's some baaad shooting for the Kings. Against Portland, you have to create turnovers ... and they'll usually be more than happy to give them up. Only five steals for the Kings, and two of those were from Kenny Thomas.

* We need to see a lot more Jason Thompson and Bobby Brown before making sweeping judgments. However, Thompson's defense and transition speed were encouraging. I look forward to seeing some more of these offensive skills we have heard so much about.

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Visiting from Blazersedge...

I know we’re without Blake, but are we noted to be that bad of a turnover team?

Against Portland, you have to create turnovers … and they’ll usually be more than happy to give them up.

In any case, you had to appreciate the oops from Sergio, Rudy, and the guys. Those were some sick passes those guys were dropping, and Martell Webster and company were all to happy to put ’em through the hoop.

He who laughs last thinks slowest.

by prezofdeath on Oct 8, 2008 7:17 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

That stuck out to me as well

Being very young, but having guys who give up very few turnovers, is one of the keys last year…

Maybe, since we played at a slower pace, we gave up a high percentage of turnovers per possession, but not for an overall game? Ziller would notice something like that, which would likely be a more accurate assessment of how turnover prone we are…

But yeah, I’ve never ever thought of us as a young turnover team, since all the principals take care of the ball so well. Roy, LMA, Blake, etc, never quick to cough up the ball.

Small nitpick, only mentioning it cause you noticed it as well Prez!

Mortimer

by Mortimer on Oct 8, 2008 8:35 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

You're right

You guys are right: Portland was a top 10 team in turnovers last season. My mistake.

by Ziller on Oct 8, 2008 10:36 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Oyyyy

you are right as well. Just check out the boxscore to last night’s game against the Warriors.

Bayless 5 turnovers
Sergio 6 turnovers
Rudy 6 turnovers.

ouch.

He who laughs last thinks slowest.

by prezofdeath on Oct 9, 2008 3:53 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

how about rudy?

he was freaking awesome. wonder what percentage of suns front office wanted to commit suicide after watching that game.

by cwebb on Oct 8, 2008 7:34 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Yeah we at Blazers edge have

decided to pitch in and send sarver the biggest “Thank you” card we could find.

To make it better not only did we get Rudy from them but also one of the best 3pt shooters in the league last year (even though he left for bigger $ in Mia) for $3mill and a fricken trade exception.

THANKS ROBERT!!

The season cannot get here soon enough.

by SpyderRyder on Oct 8, 2008 1:39 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ok, I will

Spencer was terrrible. He looked like he’d worked on regressing his game in the offseason. Not fair, I realize, to make sweeping judgments based on one game, but, as a Hawes supporter, I was very, very, very disapointed in his outing. Not so much his shooting, which I don’t expect to be consistent at this point in the season despite having the natural ability, but his decision-making. Finally, and perhaps most importantly, was his inability to get position inside – in fact, much of the time he was just out of position (i.e. it wasn’t the Portland guys pushing him out of the way; he just wasn’t where he should have been.)

Beno and Garcia looked fine. Salmons shot terribly though he did have some beautiful drives to the hoop. Still pounding the ball way too much. Too early to make predictions, but JT looks like a nice pick-up. Nice all-around game and athleticism. Hope to see a lot more from him.

by Kusian on Oct 8, 2008 8:32 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

We keep hearing

that Spencer has all these great post moves inside, yet I don’t believe they went to him more than one time on the deep block last night. If Shawes is going to be relegated to a high post center (ala Brad Miller) shooting 18+ footers all game, that is not going to be best for him or the team. One of the only baskets he made was a nice hook from about 10 feet. The Kings need a post threat. Based on last night, Shawes looked pretty bad, but to be (a bit) fair, he was forced to play on the perimiter which I don’t think is his best asset considering the Kings don’t have any low post threat. It’s useless to have center play the high post if there is nobody in the paint to spread the floor. In fact, one time last night, Shawes was on the 3-point line, passing it in to Greene. I sure hope that isn’t what his role is going to be.

"Oh, boy! This website is very good. Hey, let's talk about the Raiders!" - "Peaches" Napier

by dalt99 on Oct 8, 2008 8:34 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I thought Spencer played well!

Ok, but to be fair, Oden is a tough matchup for Hawes and it IS just the first pre-season game. If ya like Hawes, I wouldn’t worry too much.

Mortimer

by Mortimer on Oct 8, 2008 9:44 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

But...

This was Oden’s first game ever at the NBA level and Hawes has an entire year under his belt. Hawes looks years behind Oden physically and defensively. Obviously Oden was the first pick in the draft and is loaded with talent but I had no idea that the gap between he and Hawes was so dramatic.

Hot dogs, get your hot dogs.

by jjham15 on Oct 8, 2008 10:16 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well, I can't say I am a Hawes fan

Ya gotta remember, we’ve known Greg Oden since he was in 8th grade. He’s been coming for a while. He’s had Lebron level hype.

Has anyone that universally accepted as “going to be dominant” ever not been?

He’s just too big, too strong, too fast, and his hands too good. It was his first game, so it’ll only get better.

Spencer Hawes could become a good NBA big man, but it’s not fair to him to compare him with Greg “Freaking” Oden. Greg Oden has been GREG ODEN for many years now, and is going to be a really good big man.

Spencer Hawes is still very young and shouldn’t be judged too harshly just yet. I’d be more worried about the “conditioning test” whining he was doing, than how he played (though while neither are encouraging, just too early to be damning).

But yeah, if one thought Hawes had a chance to be a GREAT big man, I could see someone being disappointed. I foresee Brad Miller status for Hawes— GOOD, but annoying.

I liked how Jason Thompson looked though! I trust Geoff Petrie too, so I’m biased in favor of a “reach” pick like that since I think Petrie knows what he is doing. I didn’t think Thompson was going to be so perimeter based, but he can shoot and move well and should become a good player.

I would not expect Hawes to become an Allstar, or anything like that, if that is what you were expecting. Again, not necessarily a good marker to compare him with Oden, first game or not, what with Oden being Oden AND it being the first game in a sold out Rose Garden in front of a frenzied crowd who would murder their first born to ensure Oden is healthy.

Hawes will always be waaay behind Oden physically, so he shouldn’t be judged there either. How does he compare with “normal” NBA big men? Hawes has good length and height, so that’s a start, and we’ll just have to wait and see for the rest.

As a Blazer homer who enjoys the Kings, I can’t say I am a Hawes EXPERT, but how good do you guys think he could be? DID people think he could be at Oden’s level? Maybe he is, it’s way early for both, but I didn’t think that was expected…

Mortimer

by Mortimer on Oct 8, 2008 10:46 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

There is a huge difference betweeen same level and same league.

Oden went out and added 30 lbs of muscle so he could dominate at the NBA level. Its not like he played at 285 in college. Hawes had the same opportunity to bulk up, albeit while playing an NBA season and he has yet to take advantage. If I were to compare Hawes to another NBA player last night on skills alone, it certainly wouldn’t be Oden, it would have been more like Robert Swift which for Kings fans is pretty depressing.

Hot dogs, get your hot dogs.

by jjham15 on Oct 8, 2008 10:54 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hawes = Miller

I think the Hawes and Miller comparison is a good one. Spencer plays away from the basket too much though, and I HATE watching him shoot threes. Sometimes I see Hawes wandering into Raef Lafrentz territory, which is not what we need.

Shut up and Coach

by Carl on Oct 8, 2008 11:28 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Though Raef's a nice guy

I don’t know that I’d want anyone wandering into his territory if they were on my team.
ZING!!!

by Montavilla Steve on Oct 8, 2008 2:08 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Bulking up isn't always good

You brought up Swift, who has had a myriad of injuries, some even coming because he got TOO bulked up!

Now, both Oden and Hawes have had microfracture, and putting weight that their frame isn’t made to handle isn’t wise. Oden will have to get lighter, but he has a frame and body type that can automatically create and CARRY a lotta’ muscle. Hawes has a more slender frame that can get a lot stronger, but shouldn’t get much bigger.

If Hawes hasn’t been working on adding good strength without adding bulk, then yeah, I’d be disappointed too.

Oden obviously had a lot more time to work out with the weights, but he also has the genetics and body to get really strong. Hawes doesn’t look that way to me.

Each have to get their bodies as strong as their frames can handle. 30lbs of muscle doesn’t do anyone any good if their knee can’t hold it. Oden can handle a lot more than Hawes can, and always will be able to, but bulking up isn’t always the answer.

I wouldn’t be surprised if Hawes is just paranoid about putting weight on his knee and that’s why he hasn’t gotten stronger (if he truly hasn’t).

Mortimer

by Mortimer on Oct 8, 2008 12:42 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

On the 30 lbs...

Blazer fan here. I was directed to check this site out by Dave (the MAN at the portland SBN site), and I always do what Dave tells me.
The 30 lbs. was not gained to play at the NBA level. Oden was actually discouraged from adding that bulk. Problem is, if you’re an athletic specimen and can’t run or do much of anything cardiovascularly (just pretend it’s a word), you’re pretty much limited to the weights if you get your frustration out and the endorphins pumpin’.
We’re (Blazer fans) hoping he gets the weight down a bit more and regains some agility and wind as the season progresses.

by Montavilla Steve on Oct 8, 2008 2:15 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

He will, with as much running

as the typical NBA player gets in a season. I remember that J-Will went from 190 to 168 by the end of his rookie season.

"Personally, I'd rather give an elephant a prostate exam on Chili Day." --Dave on rooting for the Lakers or Celtics

by MiledAnimal on Oct 9, 2008 11:45 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hawes was not matched up with Oden

Hawes wasn’t matched up with Oden for almost any of the game. Mikki Moore, Shelden Williams and Kenny Thomas played D against Oden.

Shut up and Coach

by Carl on Oct 8, 2008 10:38 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hawes picked up 3 quick fouls

In, like, 3 minutes guarding Oden.

So, he was matched up, but it didn’t last long. That’s my recollection anywho.

Mortimer

by Mortimer on Oct 8, 2008 10:47 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Correct me if I'm wrong

But Hawes wasn’t matched up with Oden at all for the next 45 minutes.

Shut up and Coach

by Carl on Oct 8, 2008 11:32 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well

Because it was a tough matchup for the kid, which is the basic point I’m making, ALTHOUGH they were matched up on offense— Oden guarded Hawes. Hawes’ quick fouls and horrible shots came against mostly Oden, and it is not ever going to be a favorable matchup for Hawes when he plays the Blazers.

Hawes was matched up with Oden as little as they could, since he picked up the quick fouls, and couldn’t body up Oden on offense to get any sort of position.

They were intended to be matched up, and were, until Hawes couldn’t guard Oden.

Of course, I am not sure how much of Oden’s 19 minutes were technically against Hawes, but when they WERE matched up (and they were), it wasn’t a fair fight.

Mortimer

by Mortimer on Oct 8, 2008 11:43 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't disagree

I’m not trying to defend Hawes, just making the observation that they didn’t play against one another much.

Shut up and Coach

by Carl on Oct 8, 2008 11:45 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I hear ya

With Oden only playing 19 minutes and it being a first pre-season game, any of the negatives on either side gotta be taken with a tablespoon of salt.

I don’t think the Kings will challenge for a playoff spot, but I don’t think they’ll be an easy win for opponents either. Without Artest, they don’t match up with the Blazers well at ALL, so they should hopefully do better against other non-huge western teams.

I can’t honestly say how much Oden was up against Hawes, but you are right— it wasn’t long. Just memorable!

Hawes has the size to live on the block (just not against Oden). Whenever I have watched him he is shooting jumpers. Why is this?

I know he only got like 5 rebs a game in his one year of college; does he just not like banging?

To hang with the bangers with a lot more muscle mass that Hawes can’t or won’t get, he’s gotta bring out the tricks.

Mortimer

by Mortimer on Oct 8, 2008 11:52 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hawes has the size to live on the block (just not against Oden). Whenever I have watched him he is shooting jumpers. Why is this?

I’ll let you know as soon as I figure it out. ;-) That being said, Hawes is only 20 and has all kinds of time to figure out how to play. I think he’s a smart guy, and he’ll eventually figure out where he’s most effective, which is not out near the 3 point line.

Shut up and Coach

by Carl on Oct 8, 2008 12:25 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sometime I question

whether Hawes is a smart guy. Look at the 4th quarter ( i think ). Hawes is out at the wing and his man in at the low post. Greene’ had the ball and was trapped by his man and Hawes man at the baseline. So, what does Hawes do, he feeds the ball back to Greene who’s already double teamed. And, we end up losing the ball.

I’m just not sure about Hawes’ basketball IQ.

"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom

by HighTops on Oct 8, 2008 7:56 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Early

Oden tagged Hawes with three fouls in three minutes.

by Ziller on Oct 8, 2008 10:48 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hawes got schooled by Oden in the first couple of minutes...

and was taken out for Williams. When Hawes was in, he did play against Oden and got manhandled. Hawes looked completely lost whenever he was on him.

by Genesis336 on Oct 8, 2008 10:48 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Donte Greene

The one guarantee I feel comfortable making after last night is that Greene will be the 2008 draft’s Monte Ellis or Leon Powe. Every year we see at least a couple of players, due to concerns about maturity, conditioning, basketball IQ, fall unfairly in the draft. Greene was a consensus late lottery pick coming in to March, but the Orangemen missed the tourney, struggled in the NIT and Greene opted to leave a roster that, had he stayed, would have been well regarded in November. The fact that Donte probably should have remained in school doesn’t also mean he’s not NBA ready. He can shoot and draws contact. Assuming he subverts his selfishness (and I always thought he was in a no win situation in Syracuse, where he was leaned on offensively but, the moment they lost, was lambasted for being a ball hog and/or not being Carmelo Anthony) I think Greene is at worst JR Smith with a potential low-post game or a less erratic Al Harrington. And if neither of those sound all that appealing remember we were so sick of Artest last year we were talking ourselves into Kleiza being adequate compensation.

by rbiegler on Oct 8, 2008 8:43 AM PDT reply actions   1 recs

You think Rice was a stud?

"Personally, I'd rather give an elephant a prostate exam on Chili Day." --Dave on rooting for the Lakers or Celtics

by MiledAnimal on Oct 9, 2008 11:46 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

lol

wasn’t he good? Its been to long since he played, but i just remember him as a sweet shooting guard that i liked.

by In Walks Rudy on Oct 9, 2008 6:44 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'll take one of these...

Glen Rice

SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Oct 9, 2008 7:15 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

thats him

Everything i’ve seen of Greene makes me think of Rice. Smooth is the best word to descibe him.

by In Walks Rudy on Oct 9, 2008 9:34 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Does Theus not make these guys practice in the post?

Why is it our designated “post” players are rarely inside compared to the post players of other teams? Why are our guys known for their jump shot, or lack there of, instead of offensive rebounds, put-backs, and thunder-dunks?

Theus, put miller, moore, hawes, jt in the paint, and shackle their legs to the ground for 48 hours. Don’t let them move. Keep them there, give enough slack on the chain so that they can jump for rebounds, and pivot to spin around defenders. Other then that, KEEP THEM IN THE PAINT, TELL THEM IT IS THEIR OBLIGATION AND RESPONSIBILITY TO CONTROL THE PAINT.

That is all, ugh this is frustrating.

by dkons21 on Oct 8, 2008 8:47 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I generally agree but I don’t think Miller or Moore should be posting up on offense. They don’t have back to the basket games. However, Spencer, Williams and even JT do need to camp down there a LOT more imo. If you can’t establish a low post game, then the defenders will just smother the perimiter, making it very hard to get open shots.

"Oh, boy! This website is very good. Hey, let's talk about the Raiders!" - "Peaches" Napier

by dalt99 on Oct 8, 2008 9:08 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hate to bring it up

but this is the area where only Artest showed much of a presence last year. Somebody has to fill that gap.

We could all see how difficult it was to score the basketball last night in the second half. We needed an inside presence for some higher percentage, easier looks but simply did not have it.

No team can stay hot from the outside for 4 quarters. If we don’t find some sort of inside presence, we are in for a very, very long and inconsistent season offensively.

by Kusian on Oct 8, 2008 9:25 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sort of ...

The one thing about Artest’s game that’s different than what I want to see from Hawes, Williams and Thompson: Artest almost always immediately faced up into the triple threat position. Look at the benefits of an Oden, who does his damage with his back to the basket. That double then has to come from the perimeter — so it’s less effective (there’s still only one guy between him and the basket) and it opens up the easy spot-up three. We have guys (Martin, Garcia, Douby, Udrih, apparently Greene) who can hit the spot-up three on the elbow.

When the post player immediately faces up, a potential double comes from the sides or the front. A gifted passer might be able to thread a pass to the open man (assuming slow rotations), but it’s a much harder play than Oden’s kick-out.

So while Artest’s post offense will be missed, I’d prefer some traditional post play from the bigs rather than an attempt of replicating what Artest did. My favorite play last night was the Thompson kick-out to Greene in the second quarter.

by Ziller on Oct 8, 2008 10:47 AM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Agreed

I think (hope) that Spencer and/or JT can become a low post threat. Not on the level of an Oden (power player) but more of a Pau Gasol, Chris Webber, Karl Malone type. I see a lot of CWebb in JT actually. Similar jump shot, athleticism and running style. Good passer. Not as strong or good of a rebounder though. Not as crafty it seems. Won’t become as good as CWebb I doubt but I will take a poor man’s Webber.

"Oh, boy! This website is very good. Hey, let's talk about the Raiders!" - "Peaches" Napier

by dalt99 on Oct 8, 2008 11:16 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

How is he at calling late timeouts?

"Personally, I'd rather give an elephant a prostate exam on Chili Day." --Dave on rooting for the Lakers or Celtics

by MiledAnimal on Oct 8, 2008 11:55 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Also cheap, as in shot

At this point it’s more of a joke about the fact that people still bring it up. I haven’t been to C-Web’s website, but I’ve heard he keeps a counter there with a running total of the number of times people still ask him about the timeout.

"Personally, I'd rather give an elephant a prostate exam on Chili Day." --Dave on rooting for the Lakers or Celtics

by MiledAnimal on Oct 9, 2008 11:41 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm rec'd that post

Because I didn’t see the game, but I agree with everything said there to a T. (Best basketball talk I’ve seen around here in some time too today.)

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on

by pookeyguru on Oct 8, 2008 12:32 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not having...

Speed Racer and B52 really makes things tough to assess. I like Greene although I think he takes way to many 3’s. Noone played particularly well tonight…I guess the Blazers getting into camp early really helped.

by Ultrakingsfan on Oct 8, 2008 9:30 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

not too worried

what happened with our post play probably should’ve been expected. not only were JT, hawes, et al. playing against (what i consider, right now) a better front court in aldridge, oden, and przybilla, they were doing so (presumably) under a new offensive system.

i wouldnt worry too much about the play of last night…similarly to how i wouldnt be overly excited if we played extremely well.

by sactoreg on Oct 8, 2008 10:11 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Like I tried to point out in the game thread

The wheels came off when K-9 entered the game. Till then the youngsters were having fun and playing decently. I think K-9’s sour demeanor basically killed the chemistry.

by KingsFan on Oct 8, 2008 10:27 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Does this mean we can stop with the posts about “give K-9 a break, aside from the salary he’s not hurting anything”? Please?

Never forget: I am a complete idiot

by Exhibit G on Oct 8, 2008 10:52 AM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

K-9?

Who’s that? I don’t know what you’re talking about.

by Ziller on Oct 8, 2008 10:49 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Isn't he

the 6’7" PF guarding Oden and Przybilla while the 7’ Moore and Hawes guard the PF.

"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom

by HighTops on Oct 8, 2008 4:34 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

He was guarding somebody?

SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Oct 8, 2008 4:41 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Cute

maybe you should work up a stand up routine and go into entertainment. Ha Ha

But the answer to your question is Yes. He was guarding Oden when he got the first of his two steals.

"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom

by HighTops on Oct 8, 2008 5:08 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

You can't stop him

You can only hope to contain him. Two steals is 1/3 of his entire production for last year, so he is well on his way.

Nothing ha ha about that…

SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Oct 8, 2008 5:12 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Brilliant post Carl

Why I rec’d it.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on

by pookeyguru on Oct 8, 2008 12:55 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Nice

observations. Rec’d.

Regarding Spencer, and this is not in response to you Carl. Just my thoughts. Is it a problem for a developing young center, when the veteran starter is a high-post perimeter center?

Here’s what I mean. For the starting unit, there are no plays for Brad in the post, so when Spencer comes in he seems to be playing Brad’s position. I think there needs to be a significant effort to develop a post game for Spencer and JT. Just because Brad and Mikki can’t post up doesn’t mean that we want the youngin’s to follow their career paths. Reggie needs to put in the plays, even if they are only for use by the second unit.

Now I realize Spencer doesn’t have the strength to hold position at this time, but I’d rather have him trying to get down there and getting beat up than shooting 3 pointers for the rest of his career. As for the strength, Hawes needs to be doing some serious remedial lower body strength work with the trainer. Dude should be doing massive squats and leg-presses after practice 3 times a week. Lower body strength would really help him out down low.

Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott

by Kfan in Korea on Oct 8, 2008 1:03 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

I'm rec'd this solely for the 2nd paragraph

(Why is today such a brilliant day for StR? Such questions need not be answered, but embraced I do say.)

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on

by pookeyguru on Oct 8, 2008 1:10 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Coaches fault as much as it is Spencer's

I agree that it’s not just Spencer’s fault and that there’s a predisposition to play Hawes the same way you play Miller. I don’t think they should break the offense to suit Hawes, but I do see that the Kings are a bad rebounding team with no post game. Hawes has skills in the post area and the team will rebound better with Hawes close to the basket than 17-24 feet away. I don’t claim to be an expert in basketball strategy, but I do think the Kings can make better use of Hawes skills by at least trying to play him closer to the basket.

Shut up and Coach

by Carl on Oct 8, 2008 1:36 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm not apologizing for Reggie on that one because I think it's an area that needs work so I agree with it up to a point

But that is where I stop agreeing with it. Spencer can only play where his body allows him to, and up to a point, and I say up to a point, Spencer either needs to bulk up to play down there, or Reggie needs to make it an issue of playing time if he doesn’t. Spencer has no business jacking up 17 footers with the other players the KIngs have on the roster.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on

by pookeyguru on Oct 8, 2008 2:15 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I realize I said something similar to what Carl said but I'll back it up with this

Even though Durant was slight and probably wouldn’t have benefitted as much as he did by playing the two last season, he also was not playing a position he ever played and the only thing it probably helped him, if at all, was to gain perspective on what he needed to work on defensively.

With Spencer, Reggie’s between a rock & a hard place. All the work is up to Spencer, but some of that blame falls on Reggie’s shoulder’s because he is the head coach. If Spencer isn’t doing the work in the off-season to bulk up in the lower body area, then Reggie needs to be the enforcer and not give minutes to Spencer. This is a lose-lose area for Reggie that needs monitoring, but towards Reggie’s future job status, as well as Spencer’s work ethic toward the future.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on

by pookeyguru on Oct 8, 2008 2:18 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Shawes

I’m fine with him missing some shots. And I understand that he’s going to have a hard time with offensive rebounding if he’s consistently playing outside 15 feet. What frustrated me was his defense (I know, I’m not the first to bring this up). He didn’t seem able to defend his position, and I don’t think that it was a result of the coaching staff’s scheme. He just looked soft. I’m not expecting him to be Dikembe Mutombo or anything, but his offensive skill seems far from sufficient to make up for his liability as a defender. I really hope that I’m misjudging the guy and that his knee is preventing his toughness from manifesting itself, but right now he doesn’t look ready to play in the NBA, let alone start.

by furious.d on Oct 8, 2008 3:59 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Just one game, and he's young

Remember that this is just one game. I think the potential we saw last year is still there. Also remember that Hawes is only 20. There are a combination of issues here:

  • Hawes is playing too far from the basket.
  • Oden is a beast, and there aren’t a lot of guys in the league who could do much with him even in his first NBA game. Hawes just isn’t strong enough to guard Oden.
  • Aldridge is a power forward with small forward skills. Hawes just isn’t athletic enough to keep up with him.
  • The entire team’s defense broke down, which makes the interior defense worse than it already is.

This sounds like an indictment of Spencer, when it’s really a compliment to the players the Blazers have. Hawes had a bad, bad game. But the Blazers frontline is going to be amazing. I too have serious doubts about Spencer’s defense and rebounding. But, like Brad Miller, Spencer will eventually be able to give the Kings enough offense to (somewhat) make up for his other deficiencies.

Shut up and Coach

by Carl on Oct 8, 2008 4:12 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

True

But don’t be too easy on him. Moore put up a better effort defending Oden than Hawes did and Moores’ no heavy weight. The fact that most of the bigs played out of position the entire first half tells me it had to do with Reggie’s decision and not player rotation.

After Hawes 3rd foul Moore is the only player even close to being a center that played that position. When Hawes returned with 5:23 left in the half, he defended the PF and Thomas defended Oden.

By the way, for all of those that would like to blame K9 for the lose of the lead at the end of the half, don’t consider the fact that he was defending Oden. And, don’t look at the poor exterior defense that gave up all the threes.

"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom

by HighTops on Oct 8, 2008 4:54 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I substantiate this claim please?
Someone ought to buy Steve Blake a cushion for his seat on the bench, because he’s going to be spending a lot of time there this season.

There are so many ways to invalidate this I dont know where to begin. I’ll just say this, if Blake had been healthy (he pulled a hammy the poor baby) he would have started.. then end.

Sophia

"Feminism encourages women to leave their husbands, kill their children, practice witchcreaft, destroy capitalism, and become lesbians. [speech at GOP Presidential Convention 1992] Rev. Pat Robertson

by BlazerFan1 on Oct 8, 2008 4:18 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think

it was meant more as a compliment to who was playing as opposed to a slam against the guy in street clothes who has averaged 7 pts. and 4 asts. for his career. Just guessing.

Warning – responding to this post will invalidate your “then end” comment.

SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Oct 8, 2008 4:47 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Eh...

I think what she meant by “then end” is that if Blake would have been healthy, he would have started the game… and then ended it. Sergio would have been the one stapled to the bench.

…Which I partially agree with. This is preseason, after all.

Jerryd Bayless has two emotions: Kill and Win.

"I think it’s going to be very beautiful game next year."
-Nicolas Batum

NorrisHopper30: "someone injure pubert jones"

by rockingharder on Oct 8, 2008 5:01 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Substantiation

Sergio Rodriguez is better than Steve Blake.

then end.

Shut up and Coach

by Carl on Oct 8, 2008 5:01 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Kings grades for the first game

Just on last night’s performance:
Jason Thompson (B) He showed some good things on offense and defense. Made some mistakes and fouled way too much but for his first game he showed a lot of promise.
Beno Udrih (B-) I would have liked to see more playmaking. His scoring was solid and he made some nice defensive deflections as well.
Donte’ Greene (B-) He chucked up some ill advised shots and he looked a bit lost at times but overall he did score 18 points (leading scorer of both teams) and had a very nice offensive tip in His defense needs work though but overall I was impressed.
Francisco Garcia (B) In the first half he played very well but faded fast in the second half. He needs to put it together for all 4 quarters. I liked his rebounding.
Spencer Hawes (D-) It was a bad night for Shawes. His rebounding was the only thing he did to so-so level.
John Salmons (D-) Almost as much as Spencer, I was really disappointed with how he played. 1-9 shooting with no steals or assists. Very poor. I’m sure it was just a bad night.
Mikki Moore (C+) I thought he did a pretty good job keeping in the mix and he did score 8 points in 14 minutes. One rebound though? That’s NOT good. His defense was also, just average.
Sheldon Williams (B-) Seven points, six rebounds in 20 minutes is very good for Sheldon. Shooting 1-7 however, is not going to work. He did get 4 offensive rebounds though. He played decent defense as well.
Bobby Jackson © Nothing special, nothing terrible. 3 assists led the team which is bad for the Kings but not bad for Bobby.
Bobby Brown (C+) Showed some ability to get to the basket and finish. Also was able to find the open man a couple times on the fast break. Needs to get much better on defense and on working the half court offense.
Kenny Thomas (D-) I almost gave him an F, but he DID get 2 steals…

"Oh, boy! This website is very good. Hey, let's talk about the Raiders!" - "Peaches" Napier

by dalt99 on Oct 8, 2008 11:48 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Pick a playmaker

You gave Beno a B- for insufficient playmaking, but even when he was in, Garcia was bringing up the ball at least half the time.

And someone needs to tell Hawes that if he gets passed the ball by the point guard to get out of a trap while bringing the ball up the court, he needs to give the ball back to the freakin’ point guard instead of passing it to the other team.

Hawes was atrocious last night. He played the same way he did in summer league, but against an actual defense. He needs to play closer to the hoop and leave the ball handling to those who can actually direct the play.

Let's go home.-Kevin Martin

by LeaguePassAddict on Oct 8, 2008 5:22 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

One observation of Spencer in the Summer League that I think has carried over into the Preseason

I will admit, though, I didn’t get to see the game last night. I think Spencer has consistently tried to show everything in his repertoire. Rather than just isolate a few aspects of his game, and work on his body too I suppose, he almost seems if he’s trying to do it all at the same time which never works well. Once he figures out to do one thing well, then move onto another thing well, I imagine he won’t look so overmatched consistently. The only question is how long it takes at this point.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on

by pookeyguru on Oct 8, 2008 12:54 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

He is hot.

Photobucket

"Feminism encourages women to leave their husbands, kill their children, practice witchcreaft, destroy capitalism, and become lesbians. [speech at GOP Presidential Convention 1992] Rev. Pat Robertson

by BlazerFan1 on Oct 8, 2008 4:21 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

You may be confused

but this is a King’s Blog. You should post this stuff on a Blazer’s Blog.

Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott

by Kfan in Korea on Oct 8, 2008 5:06 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Um...

Around here, we tend to analyze players on their abilities, and not their hunkiness.

Appreciate that you’re a passionate fan and all, but really, keep the lust out of the discussion if you want to be taken seriously.

Let's go home.-Kevin Martin

by LeaguePassAddict on Oct 8, 2008 5:25 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think handsomeness

Is an underrated ability!

And neither of you addressed the real issue: Nicolas Batum, Hot or Not?

OF COURSE HE IS HOT, everyone knows that, and it is the story of the Blazers 08-09 season!

Mortimer

by Mortimer on Oct 8, 2008 5:58 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Again

This would be better discussed on A Blazer’s Blog. I find your post and the pic above disrespectful.

Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott

by Kfan in Korea on Oct 8, 2008 6:12 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

...

…huh?

I wasn’t disrespectful, I was funnin’. I apologize for briefly discussing something not-really-off-topic about the game we are discussing, in a “just funnin’” way. I am profusely sorry for talking about a basketball player.

Excuse me all to hell, please.

So, let’s get back to only talking about the Kings in regards to a Kings/Blazers game people! You heard Kfan in Korea! No offtopic talking about basketball, we only talk about basketball here!

Obviously I am not a regular here, but none of this hurt anything. “Disrespectful” is silly.

Mortimer

by Mortimer on Oct 8, 2008 6:17 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Coming to a

another team’s Blog to trash talk is disrespectful, and I think posting pictures of a player from your team on another team’s Blog to “rub in a loss” is IMO a form of trash talking and therefor disrespectful.

I posted in a very nice way that it might be better on the Blazer’s Blog and you blew it off and threw in some trash, which I found disrespectful. I have no authority here, and you can do whatever you want. I just stated my opinion.

Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott

by Kfan in Korea on Oct 8, 2008 6:37 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Who was talkin' trash?

She was just posting a pic in fun, because Batum is mentioned in the recap.

Who is rubbing in a loss/win? I could care less that we won the game and I’ve been talkin’ Kings since I got here.

I didn’t throw it in a trash, nor blow you off, I responded that I think it is silly to get in a twist over it and it was all in good fun. I’m not feeling victorious over a pre-season win and wanting to make anyone feel bad, especially not Kings fans.

I felt it was a petty thing to get upset by, and then I was petty by not ignoring it. I know you are a regular here though, so it is “your place” and all, but it’s not as if ANYONE was belittling the Kings, or being off topic.

There was and is no problem.

Mortimer

by Mortimer on Oct 8, 2008 6:43 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Anywho

I ain’t mad or nothing, just found it strange.

I hope the Kings do really well and I’ll always root for ’em for 78 to 79 games out of the year!

Take care,
Mortimer

by Mortimer on Oct 8, 2008 6:52 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Just my opinion
everyone knows that, and it is the story of the Blazers 08-09 season!

Looks like trash talk to me.

Wasn’t a big deal, still isn’t.

Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott

by Kfan in Korea on Oct 8, 2008 7:05 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Mortimer

Since I know who you are since I’ve spent some time over at BE I know you’re not a troublemaker or a shit talker. That’s fine with me if you were. But you weren’t. The problem was, I suspect, was what was the purpose of posting a picture about Nicolas Batum? That was Kfan’s issue. But there is another problem at work I’ve seen a bit before with Blazer fans.

Sometimes you take for granted how nice Blazer’s Edge is, and don’t realize that all communities are not that way. StR is not. It’s a strong, and interesting community, but it’s nothing like Blazer’s Edge in style or anything like that. Which is fine with me as a Kings fan. You guys post millions & billions of tidbits on just about everything. There isn’t a single aspect of the Blazers that ISN’T discussed on BE, but there are some aspects of Kings Land many aren’t really interested in tackling at this point.

Part of a Kings fan psyche too, is that after enduring many painful years, something most Blazers fans can’t really claim, the Kings spent alot of time being awful before they were even respectful let alone in the upper echelon. That pain still lingers in many I suspect, and find it irritating, even when it’s harmless, something that doesn’t further the community’s thought is posted. That’s why I think you got the reaction you did. BE is among many thoughtful communites about the Blazers, It’s probably the best out there, but it isn’t the only quality one. StR is one of the few quality sources of information on the Kings, and that’s something not everyone realizes. Most information is found out by accident, or by omission from the franchise. What isn’t being said is probably a strong likelihood. So I suspect people tend to react strongly, when they shouldn’t perhaps, to something that is fairly innocuous and totally pointless in general.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on

by pookeyguru on Oct 9, 2008 12:14 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

lolll

+1

He who laughs last thinks slowest.

by prezofdeath on Oct 9, 2008 3:57 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Shaq all over again

Oden got star calls the hole first half. One of the calls Hawes got of the 1st 3 was legit the other two were ticky tack. Later, with Thomas blocking out Oden, Oden goes around Thomas and right over the top of Moore and no penalty is called. Later, Thomas goes up for a rebound and gets called for hitting Oden in the stomach with the back of his head. You can even hear Reggie yelling at the ref, and Reynolds comments on how Reggie asks the ref for a clarifacation on the rules.

As Carl pointed out the only players that guarded Oden after Hawes’ 3rd foul were Williams, Moore & Thomas. While Shelden was in the game during the 1st half , Portland got zero points out of the center position. After Moore took over for Shelden at center Oden & Przybilla got a few baskets but Moore isn’t in their weight class. Thomas came in @ 7:24 and ended up playing the CENTER with Moore on the PF and later at 5:23 when Hawes came in for Moore, Thomas still defended the center.

So, for almost the entire first half the Kings had a 6’9" & 6’7" PF defending the Center.

Biggest disappointment Defense. Players not staying with their man especially the 3pt shoots they gave up. BJax left his man so often it was hard to know who he was guarding. Beno backing away from the man with the ball past the 3pt line to defend the pass inside only to eventually give up the 3. Garcia cheating in the paint and giving up a 3 pt from the corner. And, Greene’ losing Outlaw under the basket, where Williams makes a great block to prevent an easy basket.

Biggest successes: Shelden getting over to alter Aldridges shot, which allowed JT to recover and block it. Bobby Brown driving to the basket. Cisco & Greene’ scoring. Beno’s everything. Turnovers, if they hadn’t shoot so poorly their assist to turnover ration might not have been too bad.

Observations: Shooting was poor but not to be unexpected for first game. Vets shoot selection not bad, but can’t say the same for the rookies. Salmons moved the ball, 3 passes in first possession(I think), but took the ball to the hole at the end of the half for much needed points. Rebounding will pose a problem with Moore, Hawes and possibly JT.

"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom

by HighTops on Oct 8, 2008 4:27 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Oden is a beast, calls were bad

I saw the same poor officiating as you did, but two things.
1. Oden is a beast. Based on last night, anyone not named Dwight Howard, Shaq or Yao Ming is going to have a tough time dealing with him.
2. If Oden is going to get superstar calls in his first preseason game, we might as well just drop it now, because he’s going to get the same calls every year from now until 2023.

Shut up and Coach

by Carl on Oct 8, 2008 5:06 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm not so sure

that “based on last night” is a fair qualification for the claim you make in your first point. I don’t think that Oden is going to be able to have his way on offense like he did with the Kings last night against the rest of the league. I think it was our superbly bad defense that made Oden look so good. Defensively, he’ll be great; offensively, his game’s not even close to as polished as Yao’s and he doesn’t have the explosive athleticism that Dwight Howard relies on. I know you’re not saying he’s already on that level, Carl, I’m just pointing out that we made Oden look like an allstar last night and it won’t be that easy in the regular season.

by furious.d on Oct 8, 2008 6:07 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hawes ain't a good defender...

But most of the league is more Hawes’s size (or smaller), and not Oden’s size.

Just the ability to be BIGGER than everyone and have nice hands will enable the Blazers to go into him for easy buckets, ala last night. He’s also out of shape and coming off of knee surgery, and will only get quicker.

True, it wasn’t a real test, but it was a good start and is not all the Kings fault.

He’s just a lot bigger than everyone, and very quick for being out of shape.

Mortimer

by Mortimer on Oct 8, 2008 6:19 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree that it remains to be seen.

The Kings interior defense is pretty bad, but that first quarter was absolutely dominating. We’ll see.

Shut up and Coach

by Carl on Oct 8, 2008 8:38 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Rec'd, agreed.

Shut up and Coach

by Carl on Oct 8, 2008 5:03 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm also rec'ing this

even though it seems to have been a mistake

by furious.d on Oct 8, 2008 5:52 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Heh! I thought it was on purpose.

And an effective argument.

Shut up and Coach

by Carl on Oct 8, 2008 8:39 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Same here

He who laughs last thinks slowest.

by prezofdeath on Oct 9, 2008 3:58 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

oops...

1. The young guys showed their potential. Green still chucks up shots, but if he would just improve his shot selection he could a monster. He doesn’t have the highest basketball IQ, so that explains it. He also needs go inside more since he has crazy atleticism. His defense needs major work also. But he played his heart out and he’s really going to be a fun player to watch.

2. Thompson wasn’t the best, but he did show promise which was all I was expecting. He was hustling and playing hard, which was really all I wanted to see. He’s a hard worker, so he’s got nowhere to go but up. He made some mistakes, but so do most rookies. He’s going to be great on both sides of the floor when he comes into his own.

3. I have to say though, Shelden Williams impressed me. Just for the simple fact that he was the most active I’ve ever seen of him for the most part. He didn’t shoot well with going 2-8 (then again, nobody did), but there were a few times where he slid right by Oden and got to the FT line. He’s the only big that played anything remotely similar to interior D (I thought he matched up the best with Oden) and he’s the best rebounder on the team. He’s not very good offensively, but if he works on his jumper and keeps playing “garbage-man”, I could live with him getting more minutes. He just needs to say active and work on his shot/FTs. Especially when our starting PF only grabs 1 rebound…

It’s these three I’m interested in watching…

by Genesis336 on Oct 8, 2008 5:10 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Anybody interested

in a Zach Randolf for K9 & Mikki Moore trade?

Maybe by the time Randolf’s contract is over, Hawes will have learned to player center.

"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom

by HighTops on Oct 8, 2008 7:01 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

No.

Shut up and Coach

by Carl on Oct 8, 2008 8:40 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Reconsidering....HELL NO.

We just got rid of Ron Artest. Why bring in another knucklehead?

Shut up and Coach

by Carl on Oct 8, 2008 8:41 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

GET RANDOLPH

look what he did to the blazers. We got him, and just a few years later you get a number one draft pick. It’s magical!

He who laughs last thinks slowest.

by prezofdeath on Oct 9, 2008 3:59 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

So maybe we give Hawes another chance.

"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom

by HighTops on Oct 9, 2008 10:09 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think Hawes

has at least 3 more years of chances. Can’t speak for others, but I’m just a little frustrated that he’s seemed to regress from his play towards the end of last season. I just want to see him continue to improve.

Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott

by Kfan in Korea on Oct 9, 2008 10:23 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

That may be a greater issue Kfan

After all, it’s probably more prudent to see how he progresses with a different team direction now, as opposed to using it in contrast to how he finished the last season with more veterans around him.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on

by pookeyguru on Oct 9, 2008 10:56 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Beno is hurt already

It’s probably not serious, but Beno is already hurt and may not play Friday.
http://www.sacbee.com/static/weblogs/sports/kings/archives/015986.html

Shut up and Coach

by Carl on Oct 8, 2008 8:43 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

More pt for Brown

Yea, I can live with that.
If QD is still nursing that ankle that should mean more pt for Greene’ which is also ok.
I hope Brad is back, because I’d like to see what Shelden can do playing PF.
I’d also like to see who Reggie has playing along side Brad. JT or Williams

If I never again see a front court consisting of Moore & K9 I could die a happy man.
In fact if I never again saw a front court with Moore or K9 that would be ok too.

"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom

by HighTops on Oct 8, 2008 10:32 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

It's pre-season

Hangnails are considered injuries.

Let's go home.-Kevin Martin

by LeaguePassAddict on Oct 9, 2008 10:25 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

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