The Kings really need to commit to the rebuilding process and trade [Brad] Miller and Mikki Moore (two professionals with a lot still to contribute) before their trade value falls any lower. Playing them isn't going to raise it much.
over 3 years ago
Tom Ziller
47 comments
0 recs |
Email
PrintComments
Not sure I agree on Brad
But I guess it depends on the length of our “rebuilding”. Today’s Brad Miller is the kind of guy you’d love to have as part of your finished product (as long as you have strong defenders at your other frontline spots), because of his ability to run the offense. Brad Miller makes his teammates better.
Problem is, if our actual rebuild is looking at three years down the road, Brad is 35. If he stays in shape, I think that might be ok, as he’s not as reliant on his athleticism as many players. If not (as we saw two years ago), he’s not nearly as effective.
But even in that down year two years ago, I believe Brad’s plus/minus was still nearly as good as anyone else on the roster.
Ultimately, it depends on what we get for him…cap space? Draft picks?
Kevin Pritchard has Chuck Norris tied up in the trunk of his car.
by otis29 on Nov 12, 2008 7:46 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
I couldn't agree with
KD more on this. I’ve been saying for the past 3-4 years that we need to trade Brad Miller. Before I rode Martins ass, I rode Brad’s.
by Fire Stern Now! on Nov 12, 2008 3:22 PM PST up reply actions
That because you know nothing
about basketball nna/stinky
Cisco? Cisco? CISCO!!!! #*$!%! !
by lietothegirls on Nov 12, 2008 4:29 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Difference between Brad and Mikki
Brad still brings an offensive ability (passing and creating) that the other bigs lack. Other than taking a charge, I’m not sure what Mikki brings that Thompson and Williams couldn’t provide. Moore could go now, but Brad could probably stick around a while longer.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
by section214 on Nov 12, 2008 7:49 AM PST reply actions 2 recs
i love what
brad miller does for kevin martin. i watched that kings/warriors game and bmiller sets up kevin martin for 3-5 easy buckets a game.
they just have to much chemistry. unless we get somthing good in return i say we hold onto to miller. we are rebuilding but at the same time, why not be competitive? make the games atleast fun to watch with miller there :)
Your 2002 Western Conference Champions the Sacramentoooooooo KINGS!!!
by Raiders19494 on Nov 12, 2008 8:04 AM PST up reply actions
Agreed
No more slary dumps. I don’t want to trade Brad unless I get a really good draft pick, or a young solid at a position we need. You want to have two players at each position and right now we only really have two true centers.
"Shut up and Coach!"
Vfettke
Rec'd for being right
Miller needs to stay until at least the end of this season. Mikki should be playing off the bench by December 1.
Shut up and Coach
agreed agreed
BThriller is a net positive while he’s with us and a big boost when his salary comes off the books. Let’s keep him and keep things relatively stable this season to give our young core the structure they need to develop.
Life is every mammal's journey from very very wet to very very dry.
Brad
I think that Brad’s passing and ability to spread the floor are vital for our offense as currently constructed. Some plays that he facilitates are beautiful. Having said that I really think that Brad is the whiniest player I have ever seen play. How many times (including last night) have we seen him get frustrated and let that affect his play to the detriment of the team. He gets his super-weak drive and shot easily blocked (while looking for the foulcall to bail him out). Then when no foul is called, he’ll flailingly attack the nearest opposing player. He did it twice last night! Remember the warriors game when he head-threw Anthony Randolph? I think he’s a poor sport and I doubt he is a good influence on the younger players.
I very much look forward to seeing him gone. I think it will be difficult to make up for his playmaking abilities, but we will be better for it.
Not a good influence?
He’s been with the team the duration of Kevin and Francisco’s tenure. I don’t see those guys emulating Brad’s occasional bad behavior on the court.
I agree, it’s frustrating to watch Brad when he’s in whine mode, but that’s part of the overall package. My guess is the team respects the guy, and can deal with his occasional lapses in judgement.
It just seems like a lame reason to get rid of him, when all statistical and anecdotal evidence points to him being the most important player on the court offensively at any given time.
Kevin Pritchard has Chuck Norris tied up in the trunk of his car.
Good points
I realize that Brad is the most important cog in the offense. I believe its a case of being too (offensively) dependant on a player who has major weaknesses elsewhere. Also, I believe that Brad will not be a part of the next good Kings team, so why not move on? The team is dependant on Brad, and that might be the best reason to get rid of him…
Yep, that's the question
We disagree on whether Brad can be a part of the next good Kings team. I think he can…depending on the time frame we are talking about.
Clearly, we have something special in JT and Spencer. We know Kevin Martin is damn good…if Beno plays adequately and Bobby Brown turns into a solid player, then you are really only addressing the bench at that point. Cisco’s already there, I think we’d just have to add a few pieces…
I feel we are closer to being “rebuilt” now than I did before the season. And if it’s next year or the year after, I think Brad Miller can be an integral part of the finished product.
Kevin Pritchard has Chuck Norris tied up in the trunk of his car.
The important part of that Otis, to me anyway,
Is that Brad can play off the bench, or he can play reduced mins and play Spencer off the bench for most of the game. Either way, and I don’t really think it matters, I think Brad can play 10-15 mins, but the only question I have about this team now is about Donte Greene. I think Reggie made a MAJOR MAJOR tactical error in not playing Greene any mins.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
Look at my PLAYOFF ABILITY post for my thoughts
He is invaluable right now and we wouldn’t get enough anyway. I’d love to re-sign him at the right price to run our second team for several more years.
Cisco? Cisco? CISCO!!!! #*$!%! !
Miller needs to stay
We need Hawes to really observe and learn from Miller when it comes to the offensive end of the game. Hawes needs to learn to look for Martin on all those cuts and make those passes. He has the ability, he just needs to learn. Miller brings a lot to the table and needs to be utilized correctly. I do agree that he needs to be traded, but not any time soon. I think he needs to see fewer minutes to make room for Spence. Then, he needs to be traded next year near the deadline. He’ll be a pretty nice sized expiring deal for a team that wants to get in on the Class of ’03 sweepstakes. We could get some youngsters/draft picks for him quite easily, or just let his contract expire so that we can sign a big name. Plain and simple: Miller stays. Mikki on the other hand…
Kevin Martin, line 1 holding for you. Your destiny is calling. - Section214
Seems I need to make a Mikki destination post
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
Red Lobster. Long John Silvers, Joe Crab's Shack, Mrs. Paul's
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
by section214 on Nov 12, 2008 12:37 PM PST up reply actions 9 recs
LOL!!!!!
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
Nice
but you forgot Gorton’s!
Oh, and rec’d even though it’s already green.
Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott
by Kfan in Korea on Nov 13, 2008 5:03 AM PST up reply actions
Brad
I agree that Mikki either should come off the bench for energy and his veteran lobster claws leadership, or he could be traded. His value probably won’t rise or fall too much.
Miller’s value actually will increase as Brad Miller goes all Mighty Morphin’ Power Ranger on us and turns into Brad Miller’s Expiring Contract. If he can play at an above average level (which I believe he is more than capable of) and has an expiring contract, he could be a very sought-after piece by many teams looks for cap space or a rental player to get over the hump in a championship run.
Never forget: I am a complete idiot
by Exhibit G on Nov 12, 2008 12:11 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
aren't we a team looking for cap space for 2010??
Life is every mammal's journey from very very wet to very very dry.
Assume
We assume that’s the plan. But when has Petrie ever been forthcoming with his plans? He could very easily be positioning himself to acquire guys under the radar. Even if we are planning on trying to have cap space in 2010, that becomes yet another reason that it wouldn’t make sense to trade Miller away.
Never forget: I am a complete idiot
Rec'd
I agree with your take. I’d take anything that doesn’t hurt our flexibility for Mikki, but it would take a pretty sweet deal to pry Brad away at this time.
Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott
by Kfan in Korea on Nov 13, 2008 5:06 AM PST up reply actions
Only thing I'd like to point out about KD's comments
Is he has said that for a year. And the comments have stayed consistent. He thinks the team is trying to reach for something it can’t attain, and is wasting it’s time being deliberate in the return for Moore/Miller.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
but is he paying attention this year?
I think our rebuild might move forward a year
Cisco? Cisco? CISCO!!!! #*$!%! !
by lietothegirls on Nov 12, 2008 4:32 PM PST up reply actions
He pays attention
It’s just that his point of view is different from the majority of this blog.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
Trade Brad - No Keep Brad
Brad does so many things for our offense. He’s not the player he once was but he’s not far off. His game doesn’t rely on athleticism and there’s no reason to think we are going to see a rapid decline from where he is now. I can see him being valuable for at least 3 – 5 more years coming off the bench. It all depends what his next contract is going to cost. I don’t know if he wants to play for a team closer to home or not but I would have to think that he would want to finish out his career here. As always, it comes down to what he’s worth to the Kings versus what he’s worth to to another team.
I see little value in trading him for expiring contracts that only help us dump salary. His contract comes off the books at the end of the 09/10 season so if we are looking to free up cap space for the the 2010 we won’t have to trade expiring contracts. If we can use his expiring to improve the team then do it. If not, let his contract as a King expire, see if we can re sign him to a contract that makes sense, if not let him go.
If your argument is that we wouldn’t get anything for his expiring contract, my counter argument is that it’s rare to see expiring contracts bring much value. You end up getting other expiring contracts and players that aren’t part of your plans most of the time.
As for Mikki, I love the guy, just not his game. I think he’ll be gone by the trade deadline or sooner, maybe we can pick up Keith Van Horn’s expiring contract in return.
"We are in the business of kicking butt and business is very, very good." - Charles Barkley
His contract already expired didn't it?
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
Brad last night
Brad had a tough time last night because Martin was not there cutting to the rim – which also leads to the free throw count being so far off last night. There is no doubt the kings do best when the offense runs through Brad, but take Martin and Garcia out of the mix and no one cuts for the bounce pass at the rim. Look back to how many times this was run with Peja and Christie for a quick n easy layup. The question is… how fast can Spencer learn to be the ball distributor and make quick decisive accurate passes? Last night Brad was forced too many times – because no one cut to the rim – to make his own move to the rim… which was slow and disastrous. Spencer can make his own moves, but his ball distribution is not there yet.
Mikki is a great teammate and veteran to have in the locker room. But he has bad hands and costs the kings 6-8 points per game on bobbled or missed passes in the paint. He has to regroup with two hands then go up to the rim, where he is either blocked, fouled or misses completely. Sit Mikki, bring him off the bench and let Jason or Spencer get the start at PF.
by STH114 on Nov 12, 2008 1:05 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Brad does actually rely on his (subpar) athleticism
Back in the early 90s, I was a Washington Bullets Season Ticket holder, and Georghe Muresan, our 7 ft 6 giant, was then one of the most improved players in the League. The GM, John Nash, anticipated he’d be a reliable contributor for years, joking: “He doesn’t need to jump and he can’t get any slower.” About 18 months later, after struggling with nagging injuries and lack of conditioning, he was out of the League. Turns out he could get slower, and once he did, he was gone. The thing about Muresan then and BThriller now is that they do rely on their athleticism. The fact that they have very very little natural athleticism doesn’t mean the little they have isn’t absolutely essential to their ability to contribute in a business as competitive and difficult as the NBA. Look at Brad of two years ago. A bit less conditioning, a bit less focus (a bit more ganja?), and suddenly he was a shell of his former self.
Point is, he’s got very little margin for error. Once he loses a bit of his quickness, a bit of his conditioning, he’ll be useless. And that point is coming soon.
Life is every mammal's journey from very very wet to very very dry.
Mmmm
Not sure you can compare a guy like Muresan to Miller. Brad has exceptional basketball skills. Muresan was a space eater.
It’s Brad’s skills that made him an All-Star and an Olympian, not his size or athleticism. I think you are on the wrong track comparing the two.
Indeed, he needs to keep himself in good shape, but I don’t see his game going over a cliff in two or three years IF he is keeping fit.
Kevin Pritchard has Chuck Norris tied up in the trunk of his car.
Brad is much more skilled than "My Giant", but...
…where you will see his productivity suffer is in rebounding and scoring. He will get so few boards, we’ll be screaming for him to be benched, and his inability to drive will allow defenses to get in his face, which in turn, will hurt his ability to create. He’s no Georghe, true, but I think he’s perilously close to ineffectiveness…
Life is every mammal's journey from very very wet to very very dry.
Much props on adding that Kings logo in the avatar
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
And right now
he looks fitter than I’ve ever seen him.
Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott
by Kfan in Korea on Nov 13, 2008 5:12 AM PST up reply actions
I'd probably compare Georghe M. to Shawn Bradley rather than Brad
"We are in the business of kicking butt and business is very, very good." - Charles Barkley
Chas Barkley on Brad two years ago
“The Kings need a guy who works the boards like Elton Brand…not Elton John.”
Life is every mammal's journey from very very wet to very very dry.
something in return.
It’d be good to see Moore get traded soon, yeah he’s a nice guy but he’s also a waste of a MLE. The case with Brad is more sensitive because we don’t have any other pure Cs apart from Spence, plus as you all said he could teach him a few things on creating offense (Hawes is already better in almost everything else). Ideally he should stay until February.
The thing is we should get something in return.. Maybe a couple of high draft picks? Or a promising youngster like ie. Noah, Boone, MgGee or even Tyrus Thomas why not? He always ends up in the coach’s doghouse. Maybe that could change in a high basketball IQ environment like the Kings locker room the past years.
Brad Miller
From what I see (and it’s, unfortunately, less than what I wish, as having to watch Kings games at 3am of the local time), Miller’s progress appears to have still more of Vlade Divac, perhaps worse low-post defense and better shooting. I remember Vlade’s quote from about 4 years ago, saying something like ‘Well, I can’t run, I can’t jump, all I can do is passing the ball to those guys’ (explaining why he had an average of more than 5 asists per game). I loved him, really.
Yes, probably keep Brad for now and trade him in due course (or not). There’s no point for trading him now.
by KingsFanfromCentralEurope on Nov 12, 2008 2:02 PM PST reply actions
Beware - small sample size!
(Yes, that’s what she said):
http://www.82games.com/0809/0809SAC.HTM
Check it out – the team is at +22.2 points when Brad is on-court vs. off-court. His Roland Rating is 2nd highest on the team, behind only Bobby Brown.
And last night’s game, in which Brad shot horrendously:
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/boxscore?gid=2008111123
Brad’s plus/minus was not good, but look at Spencer. Looking at Spencer’s line (19 points, 6 boards, nice shooting), you’d think his plus/minus would be much higher.
Again, this is small sample size, but it’s no different than what you get from Brad year-in, year-out. The guy is a damned good basketball player, and the Kings are a better team with him on it than off it. Just looking at a stat line, or viewing him as an undersized, unathletic center doesn’t really tell the whole story.
Kevin Pritchard has Chuck Norris tied up in the trunk of his car.
Until people understand Roland Ratings Otis
People miss how tremendously valuable Brad is at doing the little things. Mikki Moore, well that’s a different story. I got something about that in a minute.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
I'm waiting
"We are in the business of kicking butt and business is very, very good." - Charles Barkley
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
In Association With
Ball Don't Lie - NBA - Yahoo! Sport
- Chris Paul is recruiting J.R. Smith to the Clippers
- Video: ‘Where in the World is Nikola Pekovic?’
- Jeremy Lin’s teammate snaps a picture of his famous couch
- Dwight Howard picks a strange time to ask for more fourth-quarter shots
- Spike Lee texts to thank the coach that cut Jeremy Lin before seeing him play
Certain photos copyright © 2012 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
