Trade Proposal
by pookeyguru on Nov 17, 2008 1:03 PM PST
114 comments
After the jump, read em & weep. Cuz this will make you cry. And you know what? Fuck 'em. That's my opinion anyway.
Bottom line is that this team needs a different make up of perimeter players to make this team work. So here is my trade proposal: Mike Conley Jr, and Marko Jaric, for Beno Udrih and Kenny Thomas and the Kings 1st round pick next season. I realize there is a lot at stake in this scenario so let's go through it.
I like Conley myself, and I'm not sold the Kings can get Ricky Rubio next draft (provided he comes out) or 2010 or whenever. For the record here is the visual text of Ricky Rubio and "when" he can declare for the draft:
A player who is eligible for a draft must be at least 19 during the calendar year of that draft, and if a U.S. player, at least one year removed from high school.The other part of this is that an int'l player also has "other" qualifications. They are: The player is an international player for whom at least one of the following is true:
* Is 22 during the calendar year of the draft * Has played as a professional in the U.S. but outside the NBA * Has declared himself an "Early Entry" player.
Okay, so that's the Ricky Rubio argument. Personally, I think Conley's available, and offers everything this team needs. He's long, and is very strong for a guy 6'1" without shoes. He's young (only 20), and doesn't really fit in with the system that Memphis is running. Additionally, Jaric is the main poison pill the Kings would have to swallow along with a draft pick (I would mandate that it would be top 5 protected) that would be high enough to satisfy Memphis.
Do I think it's a wonderful deal? Hmmm, that's a good question. I think it removes Beno out of the equation. I'm not sure the Kings can get much better than a lower playoff seed with Beno. Additionally, removing Jaric out of the situation allows the Grizzlies to move forward with either Crittenton, or Lowery as another backcourt mate to pair with Mayo, which would include after this deal Beno. Jaric's contract is currently a poison pill with few teams willing to take it on. By the Grizzlies taking away Kenny Thomas, it makes it a somewhat reasonable deal for the Kings to pursue. Because by the summer of 2010 Jaric will be easy to trade as an expiring contract, or at least easier, and the Kings will know what they have with Conley by that time.
The risks are great. The upside is you remove Beno's long term money, but add Jaric's with a year less on the contract. You take away Kenny Thomas, but you lose a potentially top 10 draft pick in the process unless you get lucky enough with ping pong balls. There is give & take on both sides, and of course, the only reason the Kings won't do this deal is because of the draft pick or Jaric's money I would think. I think they would have nothing to lose by trying to integrate Conley with this group. Personally at this point, I think rolling the dice on Conley as opposed to winning the lottery, is the way to go here. If you win the lottery, and the Rubio sweepstakes provided he does declare, is that you now have 2 young quality PG's. And if one turns out to be a superstar, and one a very good young player, you can trade the very good player to upgrade other positions or gain financial flexibility, or something. It's at least a less risky proposition than asking Beno to galvanize this team enough to bring it together appropriately. If the only thing that is holding up a trade like this is Beno ( you can't trade a Free Agent 3 months after signing him, or December 15th, WHICHEVER COMES LATER) can't be traded before December 15th, then that's plenty of time to get a better feel for how Beno fits in with this group. I would like to see this team get more athletic in the backcourt, and take the roll of a dice on a blue chip prospect, and perhaps, if you get lucky, another.
(This is a FanPost from a member of the Sactown Royalty community. The views expressed come from the member, and not Sactown Royalty staff.)
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No, for two reasons
The draft pick
Too much time on his (Jaric) contract (3 yrs)
I don’t know that Conley is an upgrade or not.
Why would Memphis want another PG back?
OK, that was more than two reasons.
Cisco? Cisco? CISCO!!!! #*$!%! !
by lietothegirls on Nov 17, 2008 1:15 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Thinking
and maybe . . . .
Still don’t know why Memphis would want a PG back with 5yrs on is contract or why ANYONE would want k-9 for one years salary relief. Jaric does contribute.
Maybe Houston’s 1st rd pick . . . .
Maybe
Cisco? Cisco? CISCO!!!! #*$!%! !
by lietothegirls on Nov 17, 2008 1:29 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
I Likey...
I like the idea Pookey….I loved Conley at Ohio St. and he seems to be improving at the NBA level with every game I watch. He still needs to develope his shot a bit more and improve his strength a bit to reach that “next level.” However, he seems to have the pedigree, vision and speed to enter the group of top-tier PGs in the next few years. He and Martin would be damn fun to watch.
My only issue would be trading our way out of acquiring a potential stud PG in the draft next year. Dont get it twisted people, Rubio is NICE but there are plenty of talented PG’s in amateur ball (Europe included). I dont see this PG draft class as being dependent on Rubio…..The idea of shedding K-9’s fur and getting rid of Beno in exchange for an up and coming PG would be too good to pass up. (Especially if the 1st rounder you speak of is Houstons)
by Hoops916 on Nov 17, 2008 1:48 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Not sure Memphis goes for it
I don’t think they take a PG with a long expensive contract back for Conley. I like the kid though. Jaric’s contract isn’t THAT bad when you think about it since he’ll be tradeable as an expiring the year we want cap space. Plus, his girlfriend’s hot. I really don’t want to give up a lottery pick. If we could give them the Rox pick then I’d be all for it.
Still not sure Memphis goes for it. Might need to throw in something to sweeten the deal.
Kevin Martin, line 1 holding for you. Your destiny is calling. - Section214
by vfettke on Nov 17, 2008 2:13 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
I say definitely no,
right now.
I would wait with this, however, until the draft. Then we can see a)the development of Beno and/or Conley, b) whom can Kings potentially pick or b2) whom will Kings actually pick
I think there is no reason why this should hurry and why the deal could not be done just in June. Then, either we will get a top-tier PG, or if it will be clear we won’t, we can trade a pick to Memphis, or we can draft whomever and then speculate about trading with Memphis.
If Houston’s pick is at the question, then yes, do it.
A good idea anyway
by KingsFanfromCentralEurope on Nov 17, 2008 2:18 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
a lot better than the lame Nowitski post
no offense (whoever)
Cisco? Cisco? CISCO!!!! #*$!%! !
by lietothegirls on Nov 17, 2008 2:34 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Ehh...
Instead of giving up a 1st round pick (probably in the top 8) just to “get rid of” K9’s contract, we could just wait another year and suddenly K9’s expiring contract has huge value.
Currently, Udrih and K9’s contracts hold negative value, so you throw in the draft pick to level it out.
Conley’s contract has positive value. Jaric’s current contract holds negative value, so it balances out.
In my honest opinion, throwing in the Kings’ first round pick is too much. This isn’t just the Rubio draft. There’s also Jrue Holiday and Brendon Jennings. I think it would be a fair trade if the Kings threw in Houston’s pick, but not their own.
I also think you’re jumping the gun a bit on this one. Udrih hasn’t played many games and you can’t base his entire career off of one slump at the very beginning of the season.
Sorry, I think that kind of trade at this point in the season is just way too much.
by CloudyEyes on Nov 17, 2008 4:11 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
I agree
Except of that I think that Beno’s contract has not such a negative value, and as the Houston’s pick does not have such a positive value, it would really fit into the equation.
Again, I like Pookey’s idea, but not at this point
by KingsFanfromCentralEurope on Nov 17, 2008 4:19 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I would rather throw in the Houston pick
But I fear that wouldn’t be enough for Memphis to do the deal as I proposed it. Why I said what I did. But if Petrie could swing that, I would be very happy. (I think people are also ignoring the OJ Mayo/Beno Udrih end of this deal, and that perhaps could be another aspect of all this the Kings could get by giving up the Houston pick—I think Udrih and Mayo would fit better together in the type of system Iavaroni wants to run as opposed to the current Conley and Mayo pairing.)
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
by pookeyguru on Nov 17, 2008 4:39 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Right!
Memphis would want the Kings pick because they know it’s going to be very high.
We’ll take Conley Jr. off their hands and develop him into something close to a Chris Paul.
MC Jr. has that potential, guys. The only way this team is going to get back to being a legit NBA title contender is by swinging for the fences a few times. Sorry, but Beno Udrih is not gonna get us to the Promised Land.
"When the going gets Weird, the Weird turn professional."
(Hunter Thompson)
by Mucho Moss on Nov 17, 2008 6:20 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The Problem with 'Value' of K-9 expiring
is that I’m not convinced it has any. Maybe, maybe not. It assumes that we want to take back a player we covet, who has a fairly large contract, that runs for several years past Kenny’s.
Cisco? Cisco? CISCO!!!! #*$!%! !
by lietothegirls on Nov 18, 2008 7:42 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Excellent trade idea, pookey.
Man, I would do that deal in a heartbeat!
Conley Jr. has the potential to be a great point guard, (and by that I mean a game changer).
Beno, on the other hand, is a yeoman, a marginal NBA starter and he always will be. Let’s just put it bluntly: the Kings will never play in the NBA finals wih Beno Udrih starting at the point.
Yes, our #1 in 2009 is gonna worth a lot next year, but Conley would be a very intriguing bird in hand with lots of upside. We’d also be moving some ugly salary off the books by this deal, and we still own the Rockets first round pick next year anyway.
Make it happen, pookey!
"When the going gets Weird, the Weird turn professional."
(Hunter Thompson)
by Mucho Moss on Nov 17, 2008 5:01 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Cloudy Eyes makes a good point
about how valuable K9’s contract will be in 2010. We’ll have a combined $27.4 million coming off the books with Thomas, Miller, and Moore, which I think we need to fully utilize. Conley could definitely be our PG of the future if we cant get Rubio. How about Salmons/Udrih/Rox 1st for Jaric/Conley. Beno is a downgrade over Conley, but they have bunch of serviceable PGs already. Salmons is a definite upgrade for them. His contract is the same length as Jaric’s but he’s a few million cheaper. His quality may make up for the length of the deal and persuade them to do it for the Rox pick rather than ours.
Kevin Martin, line 1 holding for you. Your destiny is calling. - Section214
by vfettke on Nov 17, 2008 5:11 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Only reason Memphis would consider dealing Conley
is because he is struggling badly in Memphis with Mayo.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
by pookeyguru on Nov 17, 2008 5:22 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I'd rather not deal away Salmons right now
But, that could work too I suppose.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
by pookeyguru on Nov 17, 2008 5:23 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Salmons? Who do they bench?
They already have the 2 & 3 locked up with OJ Mayo and Rudy Gay . . . who do they sit for Salmons, because he doesn’t play well off the bench.
Now you’re proposing that we trade 2 starters & a 1st Rounder for a high-upside guy and another bad contract.
With everything else that’s up in the air right now (see: Theus, Reggie), this might be too drastic of a move at our current juncture.
by smgmatt on Nov 18, 2008 7:11 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Like it, but no draft pick
If the draft pick is left out, I love the deal.
It’s risky, because I think Beno is more of a known quantity. You may not have an all-star, but you have a pretty good idea of his ceiling and his floor. And it’s respectable (mostly). Conley is more of a gamble, but with a much higher ceiling. And “gambles with a high ceiling” is the M.O. of this team.
But I fear that the draft pick would be necessary in order for Memphis to take the deal. I’ve heard a lot about Conley being available, but I still struggle to understand why Memphis wants to unload him. Sure, he might not fit the coaches system, but we’ve all seen how coaches play musical chairs around this league. I’d like to add him, but not at the expense of a draft pick.
Never forget: I am a complete idiot
by Exhibit G on Nov 17, 2008 5:13 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
It's because of the fit with Oj Mayo
Why am I repeating myself this 800 times? Because it bears repeating. Memphis thinks Mayo is more valuable, and if they’re going to pick one, it’s going to be OJ Mayo.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
by pookeyguru on Nov 17, 2008 5:24 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
we need to make their problem
our answer.
Swoop in there and get a talent that we couldn’t have touched otherwise!
"When the going gets Weird, the Weird turn professional."
(Hunter Thompson)
by Mucho Moss on Nov 17, 2008 6:13 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
My only problem with this deal is
our #1. That makes the trade essentially Conley for Beno and JT or Beno and Hawes. And that’s if we end up picking in the 10-12 range. If it was the Rocket’s #1 I’d do it, or make it our #1 lottery protected this season, top 5 protected next season no protection after that.
Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott
by Kfan in Korea on Nov 17, 2008 5:43 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
A great NBA point guard
is like a gold nugget. Very rare and very valuable.
We’re talking about a kid with world class skills, tremendous athletic ability and a great attitude who just turned 21 years old. He was the #4 pick in the draft. That kind of upside at this crucial position doesn’t grow on trees. Look at it this way: If the Kings end up with a Top 5 pick next year what position will they most likely be trying to fill with that pick? I think the answer is point guard. And whoever the Kings get (whatever their position) will be at least as big a gamble as Conley Jr.
Addressing your example, Kfan, I would absolutely deal Beno and the 2009 equivalent of Spencer Hawes in exchange for Conley Jr. plus the other considerations the Kings would get in pookey’s trade scenario (i.e. salary cap relief).
Meanwhile, Jaric would make for a servicable guy off the bench, and though he’s a little overpaid his contract wouldn’t stifle the Kings chances of signing a top free agent.
pookey has a great idea here!
"When the going gets Weird, the Weird turn professional."
(Hunter Thompson)
by Mucho Moss on Nov 17, 2008 6:11 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I hear what you're saying
I’m not sure Conley is all that you say he is, but I haven’t seen him play much, so you may be right. His stats sure don’t show much(career 41-30 shooting 4 ast), but PG is often a position that takes a few years to develop so I’ll reserve judgment on that.
I still don’t like having our #1 unprotected in this deal. Protect it, or make it Houston’s #1 or give them the option to swap drafting positions. Then I could be on board.
Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott
by Kfan in Korea on Nov 17, 2008 6:57 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
As you say
63 games is too small of a sample size. But I definitely like the idea of giving them the option to swap.
by furious.d on Nov 17, 2008 7:06 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I said protect if for the top 5 picks Kfan
That is what I said. I didn’t say unprotect it totally.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
by pookeyguru on Nov 18, 2008 5:22 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah I saw that
I would just rather it be more protected. In my original post in this mini-thread I said lottery protected this season, but now that seems kind of silly to me. Just make it next year’s pick top 5 protected, I’d be ok with that.
Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott
by Kfan in Korea on Nov 18, 2008 2:53 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Memphis has to be willing to do this deal
But the Kings have to be willing to make sure they get what they want too. Give & take in all this. When people make comments, it’s hard for me to tell exactly what they read & didn’t. If I overreacted a tad strong, it’s partially because I’ve seen as much crap thrown out here in this single thread than I have anywhere around here for awhile.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
by pookeyguru on Nov 18, 2008 3:00 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Nothing wrong with your comments.
I was just trying to make my thoughts clear. You may be right, I may be asking for too much. I just really hesitate to part with this year’s #1, because I think it will be pretty high and I’m hoping we’ll be competing within 2-3 years and that’s far enough out that this year’s pick would be able to contribute on that team.
Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott
by Kfan in Korea on Nov 18, 2008 3:14 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
True
I have no problem with what you’re saying. (That was a comment made for everyone else who was coming up with these crazy idea’s. Salmons in Memphis? Why?) It’s a risk, but anytime you make a change, it’s a risk.The Kings right now are not a playoff team. There is nothing but risks to take to get to the top.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
by pookeyguru on Nov 18, 2008 3:19 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
we started the off season with no point guard
Sean Singletary was our back up. The Kings then, with some signs of desperation, over pay for Beno. They are then fortunate enough to pick up the man from Cal Sate Fullerton. Bobby Brown has been good and getting better. I agree that if Mike Conley, Jr passes Kings office scrutiny (GP, SS etc) as Grade A Prime you take the sure thing over the maybe. But, use the Houston pick. If I am Memphis, I don’t do this deal unless the Kings do their own #1. Also, this does not happen under the radar. If this deal does not go through or goes through extended negotiations and then fails you have one very p.o.-ed Beno. Not sure I want that either.
by betweentheeyes on Nov 17, 2008 6:33 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
No Deal, Pookster.
Salmons is playing exceptionally well, and Beno’s game is picking up steam quickly. I see no net gain here in the short term, and a possible loss long term.
Let's go home.-Kevin Martin
by LeaguePassAddict on Nov 17, 2008 6:55 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Love it
I’m not totally convinced that Memphis would want to make the deal, but I also wasn’t aware of a chemistry/fit problem with Mayo and Conley Jr. Regardless, I think that Conley Jr. has absolutely all of the raw materials necessary to become a superstar and it would be idiotic to shrug at an opportunity to get a player of his potential.
If Memphis was interested and we could get a top-five restriction, I would pull the trigger in a second. We’ll still have a late first rounder (and we all love to rhapsodize about the wonders that GP can do with those), and – as Mucho pointed out – we’ll be getting a guy with at least as good of a risk/reward ratio as anybody we could draft and who is two years farther along in the process of learning the most demanding position in the NBA.
by furious.d on Nov 17, 2008 6:56 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
GP no likey
Conley has not proven that he can shoot. 41% lifetime NBA, less than 30% from three (completely agreed that this is a small sample size – 63 games at 26 minutes per). The big man in the front office likes his PG’s to be able to score the basketball. I’m not sure that Conley is that guy.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
by section214 on Nov 17, 2008 9:45 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
I'm sorry Section
But that isn’t a fair argument. I know he likes shooters, but what about Doug Christie? He wasn’t a great shooter. You need a lot of things on this team ,and shooting isn’t the main thing this team is lacking minus Beno.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
by pookeyguru on Nov 18, 2008 5:24 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Think he's talking about PG's
And Dougie Fresh did learn to hit the three ball pretty well during the last few years of his Kings tenure. He’s not the guy you’d give the ball to with the clock winding down though…
Kevin Pritchard has Chuck Norris tied up in the trunk of his car.
by otis29 on Nov 18, 2008 6:09 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, but Conley provides things Martin can't
And Martin is a shooter. It’s why I suppose I really disagree with the “great” need to become a shooter. It would be nice if Conley got better at it though.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
by pookeyguru on Nov 18, 2008 6:19 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
i like this trade
…even with the #1 pick thrown in. as many have stated, we would probably use that pick to grab a PG. so, instead of picking up a rookie PG out of college, we grab another young PG who has already played some pro ball.
this is the same mike conley jr. who really performed very well for his team in the NCAA tournament. i can understand how he has struggled, since he was playing on a team that was rotating himself, lowry, and crittenton, trying to see who fit. heck if conley were to come out of this years college class, we would probably target him with our pick…
by sactoreg on Nov 18, 2008 5:48 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Yup that's my thinking
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
by pookeyguru on Nov 18, 2008 5:50 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree.
Conley scorched the Kings tonight for a game high 7 assists in 25 minutes. He has a great feel for the game and if his jump shot isn’t as strong as you’d like right now (and remember he is barely 21 years old), he can still use his quickness to take it to the hole.
Good defender, savvy player, more athletic than 90% of the guys he’ll face… He could really help this franchise for a long time.
"When the going gets Weird, the Weird turn professional."
(Hunter Thompson)
by Mucho Moss on Nov 19, 2008 3:04 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Conley may indeed be a fine player
But never, ever make a player personnel decision based on how that player looks while playing against the Kings. This is known as the “Derek Smith Rule.”
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
by section214 on Nov 19, 2008 7:38 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Always wise advice to partake
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
by pookeyguru on Nov 19, 2008 7:41 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
isn't that also the "Mikki Moore Rule"
Donte? Donte'! Donté?!?!
'spect da 'xtra E'
by iashwash on Nov 19, 2008 12:27 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
That's only when you claim your
driveway is too icy to back out of the driveway.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
by pookeyguru on Nov 19, 2008 6:11 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I still don't know why Memphis does this
It makes them pay a PG for 4-5 yrs when they have two other options already.
Now, a straight Lowry for QD, or Jaric and Lowry for QD and MM or SheldonW
I could maybe see them going for that.
I just think K9 is toxic.
Cisco? Cisco? CISCO!!!! #*$!%! !
by lietothegirls on Nov 18, 2008 10:40 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
I think we can keep the pick
But offer Salmons, Douby, Thomas for Conley, Jaric, and Darrell Arthur. That gives them some vets and we get 2 decent young guys. And if all that youth doesn’t gel they their potential will still be valuable in trades. Also, we can keep Beno, and have him play 2 or even 3 at times with Conley on the floor as well. Garcia and Greene and even Arthur maybe split Salmon’s PT.
That is a youth movement!
by Ice_9ine on Nov 18, 2008 12:27 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
This is the problem I have with most fans
Most people in this group are fucking greedy. And don’t get the situation to boot. If Memphis isn’t willing to do this there is no point in talking to them. What makes you think they want to give up Arthur when they consider him to be a part of their future?
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
by pookeyguru on Nov 18, 2008 12:44 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I think we can fool Memphis.
Offer them a tough veteran like Salmons and and good young player in Douby and tell them they can make the playoffs, because they have a chance to do that this year, and we don’t. I dont actually believe that but I think you can sell them.
Its not like Memphis has a good track record when it comes to trades.
I think you can offer that, and if they balk at it then offer the Rockets #1 and maybe a second round in ’10.
by Ice_9ine on Nov 18, 2008 12:49 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Look
If you don’t think Memphis doesn’t know the Kings have lost confidence in Douby, then you’ve lost your mind. The NBA is a very small world, with very few secrets even available. But keep believing this if you want.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
by pookeyguru on Nov 18, 2008 12:54 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
My take
heres my deal with this proposition. first off the pick would have to be top 10 protected. i dont know if conley is worth a top 10 pick right now. he hasnt done much since coming into the nba and granted he is playing the PG i understand it takes a while to learn the position.
but with the knowledge i saw some people up there comparing conley jr to CHRIS PAUL!!
CHRIS PAUL WAS A STUD in his rookie year. chris paul is in a league of his own. i dont even think conley is on deron williams level. personally i love conley jr i wanted him when he came out. i rmr in hte mockdraft some people had him sliding down the draft board and right into the kings hands so i cant say i didnt want him.
at the same time folks id rather hold onto our top 10 pick this year and fill some more needs. give them houstons pick along with beno and one more piece to sweeten the deal. and despite what people think nobody is taking on K-9.
good idea pookey id love to see it happen if it was houstons pick. just dont go all crazy and compare him to chris paul. thats not fair to cp3 or conley jr.
Your 2002 Western Conference Champions the Sacramentoooooooo KINGS!!!
by Raiders19494 on Nov 18, 2008 12:34 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
I didnt compare him to Chris Paul
He’s bigger & stronger & taller than Paul is. I’m not comparing anybody to Chris Paul unless that guy is Isiah Thomas.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
by pookeyguru on Nov 18, 2008 12:45 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
k good
you think memphis is willing to deal conley for the crap we are offering though? lol. nobody wants to give up this years draft pick unless its like top 10 protected. whatd u think would they do it?
Your 2002 Western Conference Champions the Sacramentoooooooo KINGS!!!
by Raiders19494 on Nov 18, 2008 12:48 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I said top 5 protected in the original wording
That makes it more enticing to Memphis. There is also no guarantee that the Kings would get the 1st pick next season anyway.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
by pookeyguru on Nov 18, 2008 12:55 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Or, actually
That Ricky Rubio declares next draft is what I meant to say. (It’s a given I think that the Kings won’t automatically get a #1 overall pick.)
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
by pookeyguru on Nov 18, 2008 12:55 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
conley is more of a pure point. i dont think that style can mesh well with OJ mayo, who i see as a player who need needs the ball in his hands more often…kinda reminds me of mcgrady in that respect.
udrih is more of a scoring point, one that can play off the ball well, as evidenced by his play alongside martin, artest, and miller for the kings. he can shoot the 3-ball fairly well, which allows him to space the floor for mayo to operate, or for gasol to go to work inside.
so memphis does the deal because they get a PG with starter experience, who can play off the ball well, shoot from deep, and has potential to score 20+ on a given night, and allows the other young PGs (lowry, crittenton) to develop with less pressure; or even use them as further trade assets. plus they get what will likely amount to a high pick.
we do this to not only shed a contract we’ve been trying to move for a long time in thomas, but we swap a scoring PG (on a team of scorers in martin, salmons, et al), who wasn’t certain to be our PG of the future anyways, for a young PG who more resembles a traditional floor general.
sounds good here =)
by sactoreg on Nov 18, 2008 1:00 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Gee somebody who read my take
Thank you sacto.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
by pookeyguru on Nov 18, 2008 1:10 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Actually, I said
he had the potential to develop into something close to Chris Paul.
Sure, Paul is the better player, but he’s also surrounded by talent in New Orleans, and has been given more of a chance to succeed than Conley Jr. thus far in his career.
But never mind Chris Paul. Hell, I’d “settle” for a Top 5 NBA point guard within two years, and Conley certainly has the kind of talent that could allow him to reach that level.
"When the going gets Weird, the Weird turn professional."
(Hunter Thompson)
by Mucho Moss on Nov 19, 2008 3:12 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
CP3 is an elite
As we saw last night. He gets a lot of assists though, not just because of his talent but also because that is a team full of ‘catch and shoot’ guys (maybe too many?), easy assist chances.
I have no idea whether Conley can be great – though Pookey sure has a mancrush.
Cisco? Cisco? CISCO!!!! #*$!%! !
by lietothegirls on Nov 20, 2008 10:22 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
No not really
That’s reserved for Ricky Rubio homeskillet.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
by pookeyguru on Nov 20, 2008 11:45 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I think I had one of those for breakfast once . . . .
Cisco? Cisco? CISCO!!!! #*$!%! !
by lietothegirls on Nov 20, 2008 1:07 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Dont give up on Rubio!
The hype isn’t! I say run young now, and either our kids get really really good or we lose and get a chance at a once-in-lifetime player like Rubio.
by Ice_9ine on Nov 18, 2008 12:35 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Conley is 20 years old
How in the world does that make him old? I’ve got snot older than that.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
by pookeyguru on Nov 18, 2008 12:46 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I like Conley too,
but Rubio is better. I think you should try Conley now, hope for Ricky later.
by Ice_9ine on Nov 18, 2008 12:51 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Did you read a single thing I wrote up top?
Did you not read what I wrote up top? Did you not read what I wrote up top? Did you not……………….
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
by pookeyguru on Nov 18, 2008 12:56 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah just agreeing.
I like your idea. Just chill.
Is it too much to offer Miller, Salmons, and Douby for Conley, Arthur, Milicic and Jaric?
I really think this is a rebuilding year anyway. Ah, maybe that is too much though. Probalby could keep all our picks though. Maybe get one back too.
by Ice_9ine on Nov 18, 2008 12:59 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
he didnt talk about miller salmons and douby
he was talking about beno and k9 and possibly a first rounder for jaric and conley
Your 2002 Western Conference Champions the Sacramentoooooooo KINGS!!!
by Raiders19494 on Nov 18, 2008 1:03 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
If Memphis thinks they can win now
they will make a deal.
So give them Miller Salmons Douby and take Conley, Arthur, Jaric, Milicic.
by Ice_9ine on Nov 18, 2008 1:09 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
No one takes k9
not this year – or maybe ever. I’d swap him straight up for jaric if they want and accept the extra year (maybe), as i think Jaric is at least a tradable piece who can fill a role.
Cisco? Cisco? CISCO!!!! #*$!%! !
by lietothegirls on Nov 18, 2008 1:14 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
ORLANDO
I think the trade GP`s waiting for is Hedo.Kind of like a Artest deal,expiring contracts,draft pick & Douby.
by hudson101 on Nov 18, 2008 1:19 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Our problems
Don’t lie at the point guard position.
Let's go home.-Kevin Martin
by LeaguePassAddict on Nov 19, 2008 8:10 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Well I disagree
Long term they very much do. I don’t see Beno as anything more than a stopgap. And he works fine for that respect in the next couple of years, but after that, I want more.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
by pookeyguru on Nov 19, 2008 8:13 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Stopgap?
What, exactly, are you expecting from the point guard position? He’s a good shooter, he finishes at the hoop and draws fouls, makes his freethrows, and his assists are decent. If anyone on the team could shoot, his assist numbers would be great. His turnovers are high, but you have to expect that when he’s passing to rookies.
I’ll grant that the first few games this season were horrible, but KMart was just as bad and I don’t hear anybody calling him a stopgap.
I’ll even grant that Beno’s not an elite-level point guard, but there aren’t that many of them around. And there’s no guarantee that any of the trade prospects will be able to do any better with the current crop of youth than Beno.
Let's go home.-Kevin Martin
by LeaguePassAddict on Nov 19, 2008 8:26 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Keep in mind, because I'm picking, but with a purpose, that I am picking
Look I want to see the Kings win a ring before, say, one of us turns, 60? That a good # for you? I realize all of what you say. If Reggie Theus is saying publicly that he wants Beno consatntly on the attack, and with the chance to stay that way, and Beno isn’t, where exactly is that Beno’s fault? I don’t blame Beno for any of this, and I don’t blame Reggie for wanting Beno to be aggressive. When he plays lights out, he’s damn impressive.
But Beno isn’t long, and as far as defense is concerned, would be better off wearing a red cape. He isn’t particularly long, or incredibly strong, and he isn’t young. He’s 26, and unless he becomes Steve Nash very shortly, he isn’t going to be much better than he is. The truth is LPA, I think Beno & OJ Mayo would be a good fit together. Mayo needs the ball in his hands a lot, and Beno needs the ball in his hands SOME. Conley and Mayo aren’t working together, and sometimes, that’s the way things work out.
I like Conley, and have liked him for a long time. Getting a quality young PG is the first step, in my view, to get this team to an upper echelon level, and while I’m always happy in the respect that I was wrong in that Beno can make an impact, I don’t think he can make an impact for the Kings in respect to winning a championship. In fact I know he can’t. But I believe Conley can do that, if patience and time is adopted with him, and I figure why string this type of thing out? Let’s roll Conley out with this group and see what they can do. It will get ugly at times, but in rebuilding years, that’s what that usually means. I say fuck it, and go for the whole enchilada.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
by pookeyguru on Nov 19, 2008 8:37 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Both LPA and you are correct.
I really like your idea of swapping Beno for Conley. You’ve made a strong case why it would be good for us, but it may cost us too much when there’s a chance of picking up a better PG in the draft. If the price is right, yes make the deal.
Now, LPA makes a good point.
What, exactly, are you expecting from the point guard position? He’s a good shooter, he finishes at the hoop and draws fouls, makes his freethrows, and his assists are decent. If anyone on the team could shoot, his assist numbers would be great. His turnovers are high, but you have to expect that when he’s passing to rookies.
With the players we have (ones that put the ball on the floor to get their shot) , and with the type of offense we run ( hi post passing through the center/bigs) we don’t need a traditional dishing type PG. Because of our poot interior defense, we do need a PG that can play through the picks & screens, and stay in front of his man.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
by HighTops on Nov 19, 2008 3:20 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
It would be nice...
to have the perfect PG. Everybody’s looking for one, and few have them. Conley could be good, but he sure isn’t even close, yet. Awfully tough to say he’ll be CP3 or D Williams.
Beno is has good and bad qualities. Was Bibby better? In some ways, but he really sucks as a defender and watching his FG% slide every year was painful. Beno helps the team, not hurts the team.
The team needs another star-quality player like K Mart, and 2 other high quality starters (at any position) to be be great again. Maybe they’re on the team now (not QD), but haven’t developed yet. It doesn’t have to be the PG that’s great. Rajon Rondo isn’t even a good PG, nor was J Will for Miami. Either commit to developing the young guys you have, or get a big time free agent. The choice of Conley is still banking on potential, not on production. Even as a #4, he’s hardly shown anything but potential yet.
by StepUp on Nov 19, 2008 3:37 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Out of curiosity...
Could you elaborate?
by smgmatt on Nov 19, 2008 8:23 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
You ask & shall receive
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
by pookeyguru on Nov 19, 2008 8:32 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Top ten problems the Kings have lost so many games
1. Injuries
2. Lack of a starter-quality Power Forward
3. Three guys on the roster who will never help you win a game (K9, Douby, Williams)
4. Inconsistent desire to play defense
5. Inexperienced players making (to be expected) rookie mistakes
6. A coach who doesn’t seem to know how to finish a game
7. Owners publicly dissing the coach
8. BMiller’s 5-game suspension
9. A lack of identity and fire (again, point to coaching here)
10. Starting the season on the road.
Let's go home.-Kevin Martin
by LeaguePassAddict on Nov 19, 2008 8:35 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Disagree with 2, 3, 6, and 9
Good points though. Even if I disagree with some of them.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
by pookeyguru on Nov 19, 2008 8:39 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Hmm
I was thinking more along the lines of long-term (solvable) problems . . . but that’s still a pretty good list.
Here are my thoughts:
1. Can’t do much about it.
2. Might have that in JT, or at least as close as we’ve been since Webber got hurt.
3. All will be gone in the next year or so
4. What can you do about “desire”? The only solutions that come to mind are (a) bringing in better defenders, or (b) finding a coach (assistant or head) that can bring that out of the existing group.
5. Expected (as noted), and not worth worrying about unless they don’t go away.
6. Closing games is something that will need to be addressed before the Kings can be considered Title Contenders. If it does, in fact, lie entirely with the coach, than either Reggie needs to learn how to close, or he needs to be replaced with someone who does.
7. This is never good, but it’s nothing new here, and there isn’t much that can be done about it.
8. Already a non-issue.
9. I think this needs more time to know if it will be a long-term problem, or if it will resolve itself over the course of the season.
10. Again, a non-issue, and will be rewarded with more home games later.
by smgmatt on Nov 19, 2008 9:48 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
But the subject line of the post
Is why the Kings have lost so many games this season. You have to admit that 8 & 10 were big factors there.
And Pookey, who do you think we have on our roster that ANY other western conference team would be comfortable starting at the PF spot?
Let's go home.-Kevin Martin
by LeaguePassAddict on Nov 19, 2008 12:49 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Hmmmmm
SeattleOKC, The Clippers maybe, Memphis would have to be in play since they’re rebuilding too, and of course I would hope Minnesota would be comfortable with JT. Comfortable, or could use him? Who knows? That’s a mythical question I couldn’t answer.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
by pookeyguru on Nov 19, 2008 12:55 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
We have a lot of problems
but point guard is definitely one of them. If, that is, we’re talking about putting together a team that can compete for the NBA title, rather than just compete for a lower seed playoff slot. (Which obviously we’re not even close to doing at this point).
Beno is fine if the goal is just to get back to “respectability”, but he doesn’t have the court vision, the athleticism, the passing skills or the decision making abilities of a Rajon Rondo, much less a Chris Paul, Deron Williams, Derrick Rose, Chauncey Billups, etc.
Also, Beno is often a liability on defense, an area where the Kings are basically pathetic.
To become legit contenders the Kings are eventually going to need to roll the dice at point guard, either through trade (and I like this idea) or the draft. Pick your poison.
"When the going gets Weird, the Weird turn professional."
(Hunter Thompson)
by Mucho Moss on Nov 19, 2008 12:19 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Well said Mucho (and for that reason I'm rec'd it)
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
by pookeyguru on Nov 19, 2008 12:44 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Beno
The guy with four steals last night is the defensive liability?
Let's go home.-Kevin Martin
by LeaguePassAddict on Nov 19, 2008 12:50 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Having 4 steals doesn't make him a liability
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
by pookeyguru on Nov 19, 2008 12:55 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Asset?
Beno’s pretty far down the list on D Player of the Year. Gambling for steals (see AI) doesn’t exactly make you even a decent defender. Staying in front of your man, rotating and playing help D get’s you into the conversation of being a good D player. Beno’s not the glaring laibility on this team full of D problems – slow-rotating big men and lack of consistent effort are some of the biggest problems. At times, Hawes and JT show flashes of shot-blocking, rebounding and effort, but they just haven’t figured out how to do it all of the time. MM puts out effort for the most part, but is cream puff soft and can’t get off the floor. BM plays like a BM on defense.
The PG needs to be at least an adequate defender. Beno’s not. At least he’s a good scorer, decent passer and has a funny name to say.
by StepUp on Nov 19, 2008 1:32 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Don't get me wrong,
I’m not saying Beno doesn’t belong on an NBA roster, or that he can’t help a team in the right situations.
Yes, Beno does have some gifts, mainly as a shooter. And sure, making some steals is nice, but how about having the athleticism to keep the guy you’re guarding from getting past you?
This team has to get a lot better on defense (and I mean a *lot*) before we even sniff the playoffs. No offense, but anybody who thinks this team could get past round one with Beno Udrih as the starting point guard is beyond merely optimistic.
"When the going gets Weird, the Weird turn professional."
(Hunter Thompson)
by Mucho Moss on Nov 19, 2008 3:49 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Point is mute!
NEVER would Memphis give up a high draft pick, making 1/3 the money for some low draft pick, w/ 1/2 the upside,whom also got torched last night by Conley!
They need a PF,asking price for Conley would be Thompson.
That`s like asking us to do a sign & trade w/ them JT for Hakim Warrick(w/ a Beno like contract).
Would you do it?
by hudson101 on Nov 19, 2008 9:30 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
As I've said
I don’t think Memphis would make this deal – but you never know, thats not much of a brain trust they have there.
And its spelled ‘moot’
Cisco? Cisco? CISCO!!!! #*$!%! !
by lietothegirls on Nov 20, 2008 10:30 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Nuh-uh
“Its” spelled i-t-s. M-o-o-t spells “moot.”
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
by section214 on Nov 20, 2008 12:23 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Missing apostrophe
Its= belongs to it
It’s= it is
Let's go home.-Kevin Martin
by LeaguePassAddict on Nov 23, 2008 1:14 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I was trying to be kind
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
by section214 on Nov 23, 2008 1:48 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry
The uncharacteristic forebearance caught me off guard.
Let's go home.-Kevin Martin
by LeaguePassAddict on Nov 23, 2008 4:01 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
If they need a power forward include Shelden
I really would like to see the Kings make PT for some our young bigs. I really think Memphis would take Miller, Williams, Salmons, Douby for Conley, Arthur, Jaric, Darko. They get skilled vets and we get their extra talent.
by Ice_9ine on Nov 20, 2008 12:31 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Hoopsworld
Writer suggested CHI trade for Miller W/ T.Thomas & filler.Looked at lineup only fillers are D.Gooden or L.Hughes.Don`t bash me just thinking about a bigman future of Spence,JT & Tyrus.
So either, Miller for Thomas & Gooden,They would add 500,00 might not work out for LUXTAX.
Miller & Douby for Thomas & Gooden & Sepolfoa.is almost exact in money.
Miller & S.Williams & Douby for Thomas & Hughes(12mil 2yrs same as brad) & Gray is almost exact in money.
In any case Gooden(has played C all yr.) is a filler & expiring contract.
It would allow Hawes and JT to start !
have.
by hudson101 on Nov 20, 2008 2:51 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Too much filler...
Right now, BM, MM, JT and Shock & Hawes are fine. Next year, starting roles are switched, with BM and MM as backups. This offseason, look for another 4 or 5 with of the 1st rounders. In 2 years, no more BM, MM is on his last year, and this upcoming pick would have had 1 year with JT and Shock & Hawes as established starters getting most of the minutes. That gives 3 establiched players plus a newbie. There would be a need for another body like Shelden or K9, but neither will be here by then.
T Thomas has mediocre written all over him. With CHI’s desperation to have a big man take over, he’s had his chances and failed. D Gooden’s on the down side and we have enough Sepholosha’s on this team.
If we’re gonna make a splash in the trade or free agent markets, I think we’d be better off getting an up and coming defensive/rebounding 4 or 5 to complement JT and Shock & Hawes and/or a proven PG with better D and less TO’s.
by StepUp on Nov 20, 2008 3:10 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
A couple of things...
Moore’s contract ends at the same time as Miller’s, and can be bought out a year sooner (for $2M?) . . . so I don’t know why you list him as an ending contract “in 2 years”.
Also, I thought the Shock & Hawes nickname was amended in that JT was now the “SHOCK” portion, such that they could be referred to together. Was it you or I that missed the final memo? Can I get an official ruling on that? Anyone? Bueller?
by smgmatt on Nov 20, 2008 3:31 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
In Box is too full - memo is missing
I actually don’t mind MM as a backup, considering he does provide energy and rebounds every now and then. So, stick with the plan, draft a 4/5 this coming year, look for a free agent up and comer.
by StepUp on Nov 20, 2008 3:46 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Not enough meat
I really like everything you said. MM is a third thumb. Interesting to look at but not useful enough to replace what you already have. Plus I think he is all thumbs.
I had hoped the Shelden would be that defensive/rebounding 4 or 5, but if he doesn’t improve by the end of the year than we need to let him go and look elsewhere. Until then we can hope that JT’s defense improves with his extended PT. It did for Hawes.
Getting a PROVEN PG with better D and less TO’s, seems impossible. Unless your willing to trade Cisco or Salmons, the likelyhood of a team giving up a talented PG for our rejects ( MM, Douby,or Shelden) is unlikely. KT is an albatrose & will be with us until his contract expires, & BJax is an expiring but would only be valuable to a team over the Luxury Tax. I don’t think we can trade our expiring without picking us more bad contracts, so there’s no point. Just let them expire and use the cap space.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
by HighTops on Nov 20, 2008 4:19 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Cisco or Salmons for a proven PG?
In a heartbeat. Finding guys like them at the 2/3 isn’t that hard. Finding an impact PG is alot harder. I love those guys (except for the fact Salmons can’t cope with coming off the bench), but the team comes first.
by StepUp on Nov 21, 2008 10:15 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Correct but not yet
Jt at the 3 didn’t work well, and Greene’s going to need time. Martin isn’t big enough to play the 3 against most big 3’s, so if we trade either Cisco or Salmons we have no real backup. And, if anyone else gets hurt we would be dead.
So, I don’t see anything like that happening before the trade deadline.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
by HighTops on Nov 22, 2008 2:27 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
If Conley is in play,
and I think it’s way too early for that, my bet is that Portland could fiugure out a way to better our deal and reunite him with Oden.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
by section214 on Nov 22, 2008 10:33 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
I think the same problems apply
Blazers fans would disagree with that though. Either, Roy plays without the Ball or Conley does. Kevin Martin does that already. Why I think it’s a terrific fit.
Section, this is sidebar. I’m going to assume in your near 50 years, that you understand this, but I’m going to state it anyway: You can’t just put 5 all-stars on the floor together and expect it to flourish. It’s more complicated than that.
You say Portland can offer a better package. Yes, that’s true. But why? Blake is a type of player who fits in with the type of system that Portland can run. IF you acquire Conley, does that mean you’re no longer interested in Bayless? I just don’t see how Conley wouldn’t struggle in Portland the same way he is in Memphis at the moment. Memphis fans don’t want to acknowledge it because 2 high picks were used on Mayo and Conley, but one will have to go, and I’m willing to bet it will be Conley. The Kings need everything Conley can provide, and they need a guy who can stop penetration and cover the perimeter equally as well. Conley is a much better fit here than what Portland needs. I didn’t just conjure Conley to this team out of thin air. I didn’t use Beno as a reason to get subjected to criticism. I have no particular problems with Beno, other than the obvious, and that’s something that isn’t really fixable. I think Beno would fit in much better with Memphis’ style, and the only drawback is the KIngs giving up a 5-10 range pick in my scenario. Hey, if you do my Sean Williams/Stromile Swift for Mikki Moore/Quincy Douby deal, and leave Brad Miller out of it altogether, it’d piss Matt off, but oh well , and what I think is the makings of a young team that could gel together and be something special.
Mostly, I think people are afraid. And at this point, I say why? What’s there to be afraid of? If the KIngs miss out on Ricky Rubio, hey with their luck it’s all but guaranteed right?!?!?, may the ghost of Ricky Berry haunt us forever, then so what? I really think people are missing the long term point of a deal like this, but whatever, that’s everyone’s prerogative.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
by pookeyguru on Nov 22, 2008 10:49 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Why I think Conley works in Portland
He doesn’t need to be a scorer, as they have plenty of punch already.
Roy does not need to handle to be effective, as he showed last night.
Conley and Oden have played together before.
Conley and Oden have the same agent, Mike Conley, Sr., and agents make the world go ’round.
Portland has much more to offer than we do (Bayless and picks with no overpriced or long term obligations, for example).
Last night’s game notwithstanding, I don’t think that Portland looks at Steve Blake as a long term solution at point guard.
All of this is not to say that Conley wouldn’t work here or that I don’t like your proposal. But given his skill set, I don’t see how he does not work in Portland.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
by section214 on Nov 22, 2008 11:02 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Hmm
But last night I think was against the norm for Roy, in large part because the Kings lacked a ton of punch without Garcia and Martin around. The Kings came in trying to fight fire with marshmellows, and it worked for most of the 1st half. That is until LMA’s 11 pt binge in the late 2nd. But Roy didn’t make much of an imprint. He didn’t really try to, and the Blazers knowing how valuable he is, were glad he was able to take the night off. Most nights for the Blazers to win that isn’t the case. Roy is at his best having the ball, which is something Conley needs to have. I think the Kings would need Conley more, and it would be in their best interest to entice the Grizzlies to get something back for Conley. The Blazers could give up Bayless, but not maybe not the chance to take Jaric (although I wouldn’t doubt it) and give up as high a 1st round pick and what not.
That being said, I understand your points, I just disagree. I think the Kings can offer a player who fits in better with Mayo, and a player who is older so it gives the Grizzlies a greater chance to compete today. I’m not sold Bayless can handle the ball the way he should be able to, and that’s got to be a big selling point. Mostly, I think the Blazers need other things than what Conley gives, and the Kings BADLY need what Conley’s skill set’s bring.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
by pookeyguru on Nov 22, 2008 11:23 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
What about backup?
Pook, do you think the Kings need to offer BB a contract extention. He could opt out of the 2nd year of his contract and become a free agent. And, with BJax’s contract expiring we’d be down to only one PG unless we draft another. Then we’d use both our 1st rounders for PG. And have to make some other move to beef up our interior defense.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
by HighTops on Nov 22, 2008 2:41 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Hadn't heard he could opt out of the 2nd y ear
I thought he was locked into that sucker tight as a glove.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
by pookeyguru on Nov 22, 2008 2:51 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Umm as far as the other stuff
You gotta let B-Jax walk just cuz he’s too old. It’s fine he’s on the team now, but my gut tells me he’s not going to get mins when Kevin and Francisco are back full time. It’s just that right now; Reggie needs him badly.
As far as interior defense, I proposed this earlier today in the Blog A Bull 3 way trade (of Brad Miller to the Bulls) thread: Sean Williams/Stromile Swift (New Jersey) for Mikki Moore and Quincy Douby. Williams can block a few shots and all that. Tell me whatcha think.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
by pookeyguru on Nov 22, 2008 2:53 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm apprehensive
First, the Bee has BB as signed for 08/09 with a player option for 09/10. So, I think we need to resign him. His numbers are equal to Beno’s and he’s really only played PG for one year. I really like his upside.
As far as the trade, I love the fact that we free up cap space for 09. But, I must admit that I know little about Williams. But, I’m less apprehensive about another 22yr old down low than I am about giving away our backup SG with the injury plagued roster we have.
Does Williams have better low post skills or potential then say Roy Hibbert?
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
by HighTops on Nov 22, 2008 5:09 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
According to DX
It’s the same thing, so you are correct. Thanks for the heads up HT. Yeah, this is a major issue. Bobby will be a great battle ground for teams looking for a quality backup PG. The Kings included. So that’s a great question with no easy answer. This might be a TZ deal to answer.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
by pookeyguru on Nov 22, 2008 10:03 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
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