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12 months ago Loofie_tiny Ziller 28 comments 0 recs  | 

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Not to be a schmuck ...

… but seriously, this is as good landing a stud draft pick. All the worry over post-Petrie Sacramento is gone. Our front office has a farm system.

by Ziller on Nov 25, 2008 8:03 PM PST reply actions   1 recs

*YAWN*

No offense, but this isn’t even close to as good as landing a stud lottery pick – I hope you were being facetious.

Hypothetically, would you trade Thompson, Martin, or even Hawes for Levien? I wouldn’t.

That said, does anyone really know enough about this guy to get excited? Or are you just excited because Whiz isn’t the heir apparent now?

by cabz on Nov 25, 2008 9:59 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

OK

Think about the Kings hiring Isiah Thomas instead. Now are you excited?

SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Nov 25, 2008 10:04 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Hmm

I was going to make a point about good drafting, but that’s the one thing that Isiah was actually good at. Regardless, here goes….

Why a good GM is as valuable as a stud draft pick: a good GM will make the most of low draft picks

These are the players that fill out a roster as complimentary/tradable pieces. It’s easy to draft Oden/Durant/Rose/Beasley/LBJ at the top of the draft, but it’s not easy to nab the Wallaces, Hedos, Martins, etc late in the first round.

Who would you rather have:

  • Jason Thompson, Brandon Rush (next player selected), or Anthony Randolph (the next big selected)?
  • Spencer Hawes, Acie Law (the next player selected) or Julian Wright (the next big taken)?
  • Quincy Douby, or . . . ok, I’ll give you that one.
  • Francisco Garcia or Luther Head (the next player & guard selected)?
  • Kevin Martin or Saša Vujačić (the next player & guard selected)?

Granted, with hindsight there are players we might rather have that were drafted lower (Maxiell/Lee over Garcia?), but almost all of these picks were at least a little bit of head-scratchers at the time.

Take a walk with me . . . to a time just after the glory years, in an alternate reality where GP left when the rebuilding started. Peja walks for nothing (no Greene, no Houston #1), no Martin, no Thompson?

Obviously we don’t know what would have happened, but the point that I think that TZ is making is that now we probably won’t have to play the “what if” game, because GP has used the same foresight and talent evaluation in “drafting” our next GM.

I don’t think that anyone would “trade Thompson, Martin, or even Hawes for Levien” . . . but we didn’t have to. To modify the hypothetical: Would you trade the Kings’ draft history for the Clippers’ draft history? What about [insert just about ANY other team here]’s draft history? Considering the picks GP’s had to work with, the Kings roster is looking pretty good (in comparison, Portland had #4 & #1 overall picks in consecutive years, and also traded for a #2 – thanks Isiah!).

And let’s not forget where the franchise was before GP either. Just sayin’.

by smgmatt on Nov 26, 2008 8:18 AM PST up reply actions   4 recs

Nice

You said what I couldn’t. The last graf is the kicker. Rec’d.

by Ziller on Nov 26, 2008 8:57 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Rec'd

And 1, smgmatt. Sometimes the player drafted before our pick is as telling. I can’t look it up right now, but I’m betting the guys that went just before Garcia, Martin have not fared as well, which points out the foibles of other GM’s that passed on these players.

SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Nov 26, 2008 12:06 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Perhaps it might...

2005:
21. Nate Robinson (PHX – traded to NYK)
22. Jarrett Jack (DEN – traded to POR)
23. Francisco Garcia (SAC)
I’m not sure who made the 21 & 22 decisions (e.g. did Isiah ask for Robinson before/after he was picked).

2004:
24. Delonte West (BOS)
25. Tony Allen (BOS)
26. Kevin Martin (SAC)
Boston passed on Martin twice, and this was the draft that they picked up Al Jefferson at #15 . . . can you imagine getting Jefferson & Martin in the same draft?!? I can’t help but think GP would have killed in this draft with those 3 picks . . . then again, if he had Martin high enough, he might have taken him at #15 just to be sure (and it still would have been a good pick).

by smgmatt on Nov 26, 2008 12:49 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Interesting thought...
I can’t help but think GP would have killed in this draft with those 3 picks . . . then again, if he had Martin high enough, he might have taken him at #15 just to be sure (and it still would have been a good pick).

I imagine the reaction would have been similar to the Thompson pick (at 26, and coming off a good year, it obviously wasn’t a big deal):

“Noooooo!”
“WTF?!?!”
“WHO THE HELL IS KEVIN MARTIN?!”

by cabz on Nov 26, 2008 2:23 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

In those years I never payed attention to the draft

I’m glad I do now.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on

by pookeyguru on Nov 26, 2008 2:26 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Why would you have?

2004: Kevin Martin (who?)
2003: No pick
2002: Dan Dickau (traded to Atlanta)
2001: Gerald Wallace (wish they could have at least traded him)

There were MUCH more interesting things to be following with the Kings in those years than the draft.

by smgmatt on Nov 26, 2008 2:37 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Well it was a particular thing in general I didn't do (pay attention after the season literally ended)

I didn’t even realize Chris Webber wasn’t going to come back from microfracture surgery until far too late.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on

by pookeyguru on Nov 26, 2008 2:48 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Good post, and good points.

However, the question I posed (perhaps not very well), isn’t whether it would be wise to trade one of those players for GP (I most likely would… depending on who are current GM was) – it’s whether or not it would be wise to do the same for Levien?

I think that’s an entirely different questions because we really don’t know much about Levien’s ability to either a) do the job he was hired for or b) be a successful GM in this league. By all accounts he was GP’s hire, so that bodes well for him (and for us fans), but even GP isn’t perfect. To modify the hypothetical yet again – would you have sent away next year’s number one pick to a team for compensation if Levien had been working for another front office and he was the guy GP wanted (somewhat like NFL coaches moving around for draft picks)? I think that’s more fitting for TZ’s statement.

I’ll stop there, because I think I took TZ’s comment way too literally. I too am excited that GP was able to put another exec. in place who (seemingly) has as good a shot as anyone to replace him eventually. The alternative ‘what ifs’, especially the recent whispers about Whiz, are no longer as worrisome.

by cabz on Nov 26, 2008 12:28 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Interesting

I think that for most people, it would not be worth it to trade a pick for Levien for the simple fact that we don’t really know anything about him yet . . . but that doesn’t mean he wouldn’t be worth it.

For an example from a draft pick standpoint, see: Thompson, Jason. How many people thought it would be wise to use the #12 pick on him before (or even during!) the draft? Not many, but I think he’s proven worth it.

by smgmatt on Nov 26, 2008 12:54 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed

Shut up and Coach

by Carl on Nov 25, 2008 11:42 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Well

I guess I’ll wait to be proven right in five years. I’m telling you, look at the long-term. You want to be Golden State, or the Clippers? Front office continuity/acumen is the most important thing next to a star player or three.

by Ziller on Nov 26, 2008 5:32 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I just made my points about the Levien hire

In my crappy fanpost. (I would put them in the comments, but there is too many of them to put in a thread like this.)

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on

by pookeyguru on Nov 26, 2008 6:27 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

My lil point up top being said

I think it’s more important. Star’s can’t trade themselves, and players don’t find talent at the 12th overall pick. Regardless of how good Webber, Divac, Stojakovic, Bibby and others were for this franchise, Geoff Petrie meant more because he built the foundation for that success, and quite a few others with the Kings. Without Geoff Petrie I’m convinced the Kings would be in Nashville right now.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on

by pookeyguru on Nov 26, 2008 6:28 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

and unlike Webber, Divac, Stojakovic, etc.

GP’s career stretches a whole lot longer…

Life is every mammal's journey from very very wet to very very dry.

by Holmdel on Nov 26, 2008 11:12 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Yup Yup

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on

by pookeyguru on Nov 26, 2008 11:42 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Good point

But it still isn’t exciting.

Shut up and Coach

by Carl on Nov 26, 2008 2:54 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

A good GM

Is better than a stud lottery pick, in most cases. Look at Petrie’s influence on this franchise over the years – where do you think we’d have been without him? I doubt we’d even be able to bitch about Robert Horry today.

Now that being said, who knows how good this guy can be? I think there is something to him being “not-Whiz”. But if Petrie sees something in his abilities/philosophy that makes him a good heir apparent, that’s good enough for me.

"Don't sweat the petty stuff and don't pet the sweaty stuff." - My Dad, confusing me at a very young age.

by otis29 on Nov 26, 2008 6:11 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Excellent point

About the farm system that is. It also eliminates any long term concern that this franchise doesn’t have quality basketball looming. Good move all around.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on

by pookeyguru on Nov 26, 2008 2:03 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Like this farm system?

(caveat- I’m still trying to figure out how to embed youtube videos, so if it doesn’t work, cut and paste, then take pity on me and tell me how to do it right.)

Let's go home.-Kevin Martin

by LeaguePassAddict on Nov 25, 2008 8:18 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Tempered enthusiasm

I mean, the guy can’t even spell “Levine,” for crying out loud.

SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Nov 25, 2008 8:24 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Big Ups

I see your excitement, and raise it

by betweentheeyes on Nov 25, 2008 10:24 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

also

he went to Pomona College, so I automatically approve.

by coachtheus on Nov 25, 2008 10:28 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Tom Thibodeaux

May be misspelling the guy’s name, but back last June, when he was being credited with Boston’s championship, I was telling people: teams agonize over how to land the stud free agent or win the draft lottery when guys like Tom Thibodeaux are sitting there to be had for a couple hundred thousand in salary and you don’t have to win the lottery or navigate the salary cap to get him. He’s just waiting by the phone.

Levien isn’t going to be met by 1000 screaming fans at the airport when he flies in, but TZ is right, this could be a big, big deal.

And as far as I’m concerned, this is another reason to be grateful for GP. People like Levien consider changing careers and coming to a small market like Sacto because they want to learn from GP, and respect his chess-playing.

Life is every mammal's journey from very very wet to very very dry.

by Holmdel on Nov 26, 2008 10:56 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

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