Nuggets to acquire Billups in agreed-to Iverson trade
Billups and McDyess to Denver for Iverson? If this is true, did the West just get better?
over 3 years ago
spragueito
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That's a bizare trade
Billups is still good, but he’s 32 and has 4 years left on his contract. AI is expiring. Denver is now locked into salary cap hell for the foreseeable future. It’s interesting from Detroit’s perspective. It could work and worst case AI comes off the books.
Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott
yea...
nuggets are stupid. They had such a fat expiring deal ready to be used next season, but instead made a rash decision that they’ll be paying for for quite a few years to come. On the other hand, I think the Pistons just got a hell of a lot better in the long-term, because Iverson can mentor Stuckey this year and then hand over the starting position to him next year. Wonder who they’ll pursue with all this money next year.
Bring Chris Bosh to California!!!
Allen Iverson, Mentor
LOL, cmon lets get real, Iverson wasnt someone who beat you with smarts, he beat you with quickness. No amount of mentoring teaches quickness.
by passionforPERPS on Nov 3, 2008 2:53 PM PST up reply actions
Actually
AI makes $20 mil this year. Billups makes $11 and McDyess makes $7. McDyess will probably be bought out as he’d rather retire than be traded.
Kevin Martin, line 1 holding for you. Your destiny is calling. - Section214
And
AI’s 20 would come off the books, but Billups’ will not and McDyess’ will not. So this deal will up their salary next season by 16 or so(11+ buy out/2) and by 11 for 2 more years after that.
Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott
by Kfan in Korea on Nov 3, 2008 12:52 PM PST up reply actions
I think vfettke is right
McDyess declared no will to play for anyone except of Detroit and he would perhaps retire or will be bought out, is the buyout then counted against the salary cap?
by KingsFanfromCentralEurope on Nov 3, 2008 1:12 PM PST up reply actions
Only the amount of the dollars the Nuggest pay Dice
will count against the cap KFfCE (that’’s your new name for me—I ain’t writing that all out bro). So in otherwords, let’s say Dice has a 7 million contract, and agree’s for Denver to only pay 5 million of it. If he re-signs with Detroit again, for say 1 million, Denver is only on the hook 5 million minus whatever amount gets deducted for Dice signing with Detroit (there is a percentage of it but I’m not exactly sure what that number is—it either lowers what Dice gets paid from Denver, or it decreases something for Denver on what they owe the salary cap. It’s something like that. Read Larry Coon’s FAQ to figure it all out.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
Yes
the buyout would be divided over the remaining years of the contract. Figure 10 mil buyout divided by 2 years. Reference here.
Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott
by Kfan in Korea on Nov 3, 2008 1:19 PM PST up reply actions
Wow thank you for finding that
That is so perfectly explained. (For those who can understand it.)
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
No
But at this point Iverson can also choose a championship contender and contribute to them. He doesn’t need the money. He, and his family, are set for life Carl. If you’re Iverson, wouldn’t you consider the Garnett route a reasonable and useful way to at least be a meaningful part of a championship team?
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
Yeah that'd be my guess
Whether he’s actually going to help a championship-level team is another matter.
Shut up and Coach
Several things initially (I'm going to post more detailed thoughts on Pickaxe & Roll)
One is that while Detroit will be perceived as a winner, it means that Denver was really looking to deal Camby off their roster (a pretty good move all things considered), and it’s really interesting they were willing to take Billups deal on.
People will end up focusing on this season, but the Billups and Melo incarnation hasn’t worked, and perhaps Billups needs a fresh start. Certainly Billups style could mesh with Karl as well as Karl did have, if you remember, Gary Payton and they had similarish styles.
Far far more detailed thoughts on the Pickaxe and Roll. (I think it’s a move with more upside for Denver long term.)
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
My comment at Pickaxe and Roll (and the thread for those wishing to comment there)
can be found here. These are my detailed thoughts. Enjoy.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
i think this easily benefits denver
the nuggets needed a PG, and they got one of the best in the league. now the nuggets’ starting lineup contains two guys who can drill the 3-ball. billups is also good at pushing the ball in transition, which fits the nuggets.
Nuggs just got Pistoned (or is it Denver got the rod?)
What happened to clearing cap!?!? This is a perfect picture of the disfuction that is the Denver organization. AI and his massive contract were one foot out the door, along with the gift-wrapping of Camby. At this time next year you could have a (younger) major player alongside Melo.
On the other hand, Dumars just showed what GM has the real “nuggs.” He now has massive expiring contracts (AI and Sheed) to parlay into major talent to go along with a solid youth and veteran core (Stucky, Maxiell, A. Johnson, Prince, etc.). Kudos to Dumars. Take note Petrie and Maloof, Joe is giving lessons.
Funny you say this Citadel
Jeremy dis-agree’s with you. I do too, but what do I know? I’m a long winded piece of shit.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
the way i see it the nuggets decided to opt for being a better team (probably playoff team) now instead of clearing space….can’t really fault them for that ;)
Especially since they weren't going to have much cap space (or any)
to begin with the next 3 off-seasons.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
I agree they're going all in
but I think that kind of move would’ve made more sense had they not given Camby away, unless Camby is really similar to K9 in ability, and they were just clearing a bad contract.
Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott
by Kfan in Korea on Nov 3, 2008 1:24 PM PST up reply actions
I disagree with that for several reasons
Camby wouldn’t have done much for Billups, and Denver was able to do this because they were able to clear Camby out of the table financially. Also with Samb coming on board, that’s a cheaper more viable option for the next 2 seasons that the Nuggest could potentially get more out of in the long run. So, since one area for the Nuggets was to decrease salary to decrease as much luxury tax as possible, this was a perfect deal for them. They aren’t giving away cap space, because even with Camby, they weren’t even remotely close to being under the cap.
The bottom line is that most people think Camby was worth far more to the Nuggets than he really was to those who closely observed the team. (I didn’t, but Jeremy and Kelly Dwyer did, and I do trust them a good deal when it comes to observations and analysis. A because Dwyer is that good & committed along with being a total junkie, and B because it’s Jeremy’s team and he blogs about the Nuggets daily for SBN.)
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
I agree
Most Nuggets fans I know think that they will be better off with a Martin/Nene frontline. Especially defensively. (although those same people argued vehemently in Camby’s favour when he was about to be crowned dpoy two years ago, so…well…take it for what it’s worth, I guess)
Fight indifference! Or don't.
It's a fair point and thoughtful criticism.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
I think this is a sound move for Detroit
They get to make one last run with veteran guys, and then rebuild with their cap space in the next 2 off-seasons. I’ve heard of many worse plans than that.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
Don't know what to think
I’m not sure what to think about this deal. Billups is only 28 and still productive. He’ll be 32 at the end of his deal and should still be a good player through the contract. However, I don’t think this really makes Denver any better (or much better anyway). I guess it is better than losing Iverson for nothing. I don’t see Iverson helping Detroit. I think it was essentially a salary dump on a team that’s going to rebuild in the next year or two.
Anyone else think Iverson is going to hold out for way too much money this offseason and end up having to take a three year MLE deal?
Shut up and Coach
Don't like correcting you but Billups is definitely not 28 years old
He’s 32 having been born on Sept 25 1976. Via basketball reference.com.
That’s a great question about Iverson Carl. What is he going to do? (Not something I’m worried about, but it could change the balance of power no question.)
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
This is for Carl's comment above mine (which will have replys but oh well)
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
It's simple.
Detroit got a legend and a one last chance to win it all. If they fail, they let AI leave, start rebuilding right away with plenty of cap room and already a lot of good young players (Maxiell, Amir, Stuckey, Affalo). There’s no bad side for them, only good.
Denver finally got a very good PG. TH=hat’s the the good news but I don’t think that makes them a contender. The bad news are that he still has 4 years of contract and he’s already 32. Unless they add some good players soon, they’re locked in mediocrity for the next few seasons.
Man.. as I’m thinking all this I realize that the Kings are in a really difficult position. All we have is Martin and some question marks. :S
Actually
3 years left after this season, and only 2 are guaranteed. So I guess 4 is true, but for this season, I don’t really think it makes a difference to Denver since this is saving them quite a bit of money.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
Denver is setting a ceiling, Detriot is setting a floor
What I mean by the title is that Denver has (in a relatively short time) shipped off 2 major peices for what? cap space (camby) and anti-cap space (billups). Lets not discount Camby too much, he was relatively healthy the last couple years, and easily a top 10 5-man with excellent defensive and under-rated offensive skills. I suspect (although its obviously just us shouting into the wind and I’ve been wrong before) that Billups will do fine, but Denver wont be any better off than when AI (a bonified superstar) was there.
Detroit on the other hand, similarly makes somewhat of a lateral move talent-wise, giving up billups (and his contract) and loose change for the chance to grab a big gun and make room for some up and coming stars (Stuck-o and MaxAmirus Prime)
Detroit was in that position
Denver had to do something to make use of the talent they already had on hand, and were unlikely to shed the next 2 years. This helps this year, and maybe several years down the road. I realize that most people don’t understand that, but this is a great deal if Billups can recover his mojo and stay healthy at the Mile High. I’m sure playing in his hometown can’t hurt that end either.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
I agree, Billups is a grate fit in Denver.
AI and Melo were a bad match from the beginning. Denver, like Atlanta has had an issue filling the point guard position for a long time and Billups gives them the natural fit to go with a nice group of scorers and a defensive specialists. AI is purely a salary dump for Dumars and the Pistons- clearing a lot of cash off the books and accelerating a rebuilding process. Good trade all around.
Hot dogs, get your hot dogs.
Yeah that is the other part
It’s easy to see what Detroit gets out of this, but people are missing Denver’s point of view in this, which is not something I’m quite understanding why JJ. (I think a lot of it is that most people think the Nuggs got worse by dealing Camby, and because I’m probably in the extreme minority of outsiders who doesn’t think it’s a difference that makes any real point. But it’s still on the minds of many, and many still aren’t getting the point. That would be my guess.)
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
If I was a Denver fan
I’d be gunning for the heads of Denver’s front office. First passing up Artest, because they didn’t want to give up Kleiza, and then opting out of Kleiza’s contract??? Giving up Camby for free… And then trading off the best player on your team for an “above average” player and his bloated contract?
They’re really destroying that team.
Kleiza is in his 4th year
What they didn’t do was offer him an extension that would have kept him from entering the market as a restricted FA.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
I read that Detroit extended Rip for an additional 3 years at about $11m a year which makes zero sense to me. I’m not sure why you’d want someone like him locked up until he’s 36 at that price-tag but hey, whatever!
for their sake
let’s hope that this is just a precursor for another trade, where the other team wanted more long-term security. Or maybe they wanted to make sure that they still present a winning environment to their potential newcomers. Both, imho, make less sense than just letting Rip expire, but who am I to pass judgment…
Fight indifference! Or don't.
Funny
I’ve read about fifty quotes from Iverson about the trade, I’ve read a few from Melo, some from Joe Dumars, but not a single one from Chauncey.
Does anyone know how Chauncey feels about getting traded?
Donte? Donte'! Donté?!?!
'spect da 'xtra E'
MIght be one definition of a conundrum
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
Billups is a soldier
Gave the bullsit response – “It’s always been my dream to compete with Denver”… everyone who’s anyone knows that’s PC crap, but I respect his game, and respect his resolve.
I’m sure he’ll do well in the WC – he’s a big point guard, and I’m also sure CP3, Nash, Parker and Deron aren’t happy they’re going have to deal with him twice as often. Hell, Beno, Sergio, Blake, Monta… they’re all going to have their hands full.
Maybe I could sorta see the sense of this trade.
Donte? Donte'! Donté?!?!
'spect da 'xtra E'
You do know Chauncey is from Denver right?
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
what?
No, had no clue. Interesting… dropped the ball on that one.
Donte? Donte'! Donté?!?!
'spect da 'xtra E'
Your comment smacked of not being aware of it
It’s why I pointed it out. Chauncey didn’t want to leave Detroit I knew that, but he wanted to pick his words carefully, and get over his hurt of being traded, especially when it was in his own hometown. (That’s all my point was.)
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
hmm
r they rebuilding? r they reloading? looks to me like the nuggets front office is similar to that of the raiders in the nfl…a bunch of random different things going on at once. god it sucks to be a raider fan these days. BUT HEY ATLEAST MY KINGS LOOK TO HAVE SOME PROMISE!!
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