Would You Trade JT for Amare?
by PhutureKings on Dec 11, 2008 12:02 PM PST
Email
PrintDISCLOSURE: This deal might be a pipe-dream, but it's maily intended to create food for thought.
Obviously, this deal could not be done straight-up (JT for Amare), but would you trade for Amare if JT was part of the package? I hesitate, because I think that JT's future is very bright, but at this point, you'd be crazy not to, right?
I only ask because it is well-known that Amare is not happy in PHX right now, and PHX risks losing him for nothing in the summer of 2010, so they MIGHT be open to a deal. If the Kings dealt w/ the Suns, however, I believe that the Suns would demand a package that includes JT & a 1st round draft pick, along with expiring contracts and someone to help them with their current title aspirations. After yesterday's trade, the Suns are below the league roster requirements, and would also want some cheap bench-warmers thrown in.
For Sac fans, many of us would hate to see JT go (I know I'd be pretty upset), but acquiring Amare now puts the Kings in a better position to obtain another star-player in 2010 (like D-Wade, given our needs in the backcourt). A deal could work without JT, which obviously would be preferable for Kings Nation, but you have to think that PHX would not swing a deal without JT included (or maybe Hawes instead).
A deal without JT looks like this:
PHX gets - Shelden Williams, Brad Miller, B-Jax, about 1.5 mil from our Artest/Bibby trade exceptions, and probably our first-round draft pick (hopefully, the one from Houston, but more likely, our draft pick).
SAC gets - Amare, Dragic.
PHX probably does not make this deal. But, here's why each team might do it: It's obvious why SAC would swing this deal. The Suns MIGHT do this for a few reasons, namely cap relief & help in the running-game. PHX just acquired J-Rich, which signals a move back to the running game. Miller could be moved to the 4 spot when Shaq plays, or at the 5 to help rest the Diesel. Miller would pair excellently with Shaq, as he has the mid-range game and distributes better than any big man in the game. This would open up the floor for scoring. B-Jax provides some back-up for Nash and brings his toughness/leadership/experience to the squad. Plus, the expiring contracts give the Suns some cap relief.
A starting unit of Nash, J-Rich, Barnes, Miller & Shaq is pretty good. For the Kings, it would be Udrih, Martin, Salmons, Amare & Hawes (w/ Brown, Garcia, JT & Greene waiting to come off the bench) which sounds down-right awesome!
But, you have to think that PHX demands JT in the trade, so do you still pull the trigger, knowing that JT is probably going to be a big-time baller? Amare is only 26. And, using Amare as a lure for a star free-agent cannot be underestimated. The draw of playing on a team with Martin, Amare & Hawes could make the difference between landing a D-Wade in 2010. Otherwise, without another significant talent on the squad, we might be lucky to get Chris Duhon.
So, does anyone think that a deal could be struck and would you approve? Again, it would most likely look like this:
SAC gets: Amare, Dragic
PHX gets: Miller, Williams, B-Jax, JT & a 1st round pick.
It seems like giving up a bunch of cap room, JT & a 1st rounder is a lot, but that's what it would take to land a baller like Amare. The deal becomes much more palatable for Kings fans if we get to keep JT and our lottery pick. I'd gladly substitute Douby for JT & the Houston pick for the lottery pick, but that's obvious, and it makes the deal less likely to happen.
What do you guys think?
(This is a FanPost from a member of the Sactown Royalty community. The views expressed come from the member, and not Sactown Royalty staff.)
25 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
I don't think the Suns would make this deal...
Like I said, it’s more just food for thought, but the reason I was motivated to ask the question is for two reasons: 1) after reading a chat on ESPN today, the subject of Amare’s availability came up, and; 2) I wonder what Kings fans would be willing to give up in order to get him.
Again, the Suns MIGHT do it, if Amare demands a trade and the situation gets ugly in PHX…I mean, huge cap relief for 2010 (which every team in the league covets right now), a 1st round pick, a versatile big man (Miller) & a future potential star (JT), is a decent (although, probably not sufficient) offer for a malcontent.
by PhutureKings on Dec 11, 2008 1:40 PM PST up reply actions
Just to play along...
- There wouldn’t be a 2010 FA if the Kings acquired Amare, because they’d still have to resign him and that would eat up the cap space needed to sign a FA.
- Would the Trade Exception you mention completely cover Dragic’s contract? If not, it cannot be used (note: I haven’t looked).
- You make a contradictory comment in saying that PHX would want pieces that would help them win a title NOW and that they’d demand JT (i.e a future piece). I’m not saying that both aren’t true, but it muddied up your argument a little because those two comments contradict each other.
- Don’t forget, Nash & Shaq will also be off the books in 2010 along with Amare (J-Rich has until 2011). If Amare’s gone, then they’re basically starting over.
I like that you thought it through, and that you’re realistic about the chances of this happening (see: Pipe-Dream disclosure). Also, a trade machine link would have been good, to show that the deal is possible. That said, I don’t think that this deal would get done for multiple reasons, but it was an entertaining read (especially for trade junkies). Thanks for the post!
No smg the trade exceptions wouldn't cover Dragic
The problem is most people don’t know you can’t combine trade exceptions to cover a player (like the Artest & Bibby trade exceptions basically add up to Dragic’s salary, or just short by a 100K, but it wouldn’t work cuz you can’t combine the trade exceptions basically).
Here’s Larry Coon’s answer to that very question if you choose to read on.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
Yeah
I understood it, and was just pointing it out (although not nearly as thoroughly . . . thanks for adding the Larry Coon link).
Yeah I figured you did
I probably should have replied (myself) to Phuture’s point about using an exception to get Dragic.
I’m not too keen on a JT for Amare deal straight up if money wasn’t an issue, let alone the fact that it is.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
Thanks for the Feedback...
A few retorts:
***Kings could still have cap room in 2010, because they’ll have around $35M coming off the books over the next 2 years (given increased cap & Garcia’s extension). If we unload Miller, B-Jax & Williams to PHX, that still leaves K9, Douby & Moore’s contracts to come off the books at around $16.5M.
…but then I forgot about having to resign Hawes, JT, Greene & Brown in 2 years. Salmons contract would come off the books to help clear room for resigning the young guys, but not nearly enough…UGH! This gets so complicated!
I’ve been thinking this whole time that the Kings will have enough to sign 2 star free agents in 2010, which is key. But, after Hawes, JT & Co. get their extensions, we’ll probably only have enough for 1.
***Sorry about not including the link. It was my first post on this site, and I’ll be sure to include in the future.
***I went back to Trade Machine & looked at the Suns’ expiring contracts. If we made this deal with them, it’d give them an additional $20M in expiring k’s over the next 2 years, added to Nash & Shaq’s $35M. They are over the cap by about $20M, but it still would give them the $35M in 2010 to out-bid the Kings, which is shooting ourselves in the foot, I suppose. …But, we’d have Amare :)
- questions: what trades, if any, do you all seeing being a possibility for the Kings (or some you’d like to see), and anyone know exactly how much money we’ll have to go shopping in 2010 (and who should we target)?
Endless possibilities
You should probably read thru past thread, as you’ll find unlimited comments on needs and potential trades.
My short list current needs : Starting PF, starting PG, backup SG
Future needs (unless Miller is resigned in 2010 for MLE)
Backup Center, starting SF (unless Salmon is extended in 09; can opt out in 2010 because of ETO)
Numerous trades have been discussed, but I like the ones that trade Miller for a 09 expiring such as Marian. I like the idea of GP having cap space next summer along with 2 first round draft choices. It gives him more flexability to make a trade or to enter the 09 FA market, based on where we end up in the lottory.
SAR’s retirement this year, BJax, Williams, & Douby’s expiring contract next year, & Moore’s $2M buy out next year offer opportunities for major roster changes next summer. We still need time to see how our 3 rookies develop ( JT, Greene,Brown) before we really have a good ideo of our future needs. Until then there’s no urgency, so we don’t need to make any marginal trades. We certainly don’t need to acquire any big long term contracts just to dump someone even K9. Trades that return 1st round draft picks or the chance to move up in the draft where you have a better chance at acquiring a future star, is better than picking up another role player.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
Reef isn't eligible
To be traded this year. You can’t trade a guy’s medical retirement to another team looking for cap relief. That loophole was closed in the 2005 cba.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
Did say trade:
I just pointed out that we will have 5 available roster spots available to fill. Giving GP the chance to make an unequal trade (5 players for 3 for example) or to add additional role player with 09 cap space.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
Nash
I don’t think the Suns trade Amare because he should be the focus of the francise going forward. A much more likely scenario for the Kings would be trading for Steve Nash. He would really keep the team moving at a fast pace and would help make everyone else better. He is getting older and is really unhappy right now in Phoenix. How about this:
Bmill, Douby, and Donte for Nash and Hill
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=3365923000556&teams=23232121&te=3432:21-3234&cash=
No way
that deal goes down.
The Suns still think they are contenders. Why are they going to take on that hodgepodge? Sell me.
by coolcatreportdotcom on Dec 11, 2008 8:20 PM PST up reply actions
Just a thought
Didn’t Shaq take a swing at Miller years ago in a Lakers-Bulls matchup? Realistically, if I were Steve Kerr I could/would not (take your pick) add a player that could potentially interfere with the team synergy right now because the Suns are/should be a playoff team. If Miller and Shaq could get along that could be a great deal for both parties especially if Amare keeps complaining about his involvement in Terry Porter’s offense.
However
if it went down, i would accept it right away. i believe amari is young still. Only three years older than thompson so it would be a dream trade for us
Wack To Mack With The General and The Back. (J-Mac and D-Mac)
I don't like Amare
And think he’s one of the most overrated players in the NBA in the last 5 years, and that’s ignoring the microfracture surgery which he did well just to overcome, and hence earn’s props.
He’s not a good enough rebounder, or defender, to really help offset the Kings total problems in the paint, and I don’t think he and Spencer would fit well enough together, and of course, that discounts any potential injury Amare would have.
Unless you’re positively sure JT won’t become a star, or just a Buck Williams type at the very least, you don’t move him for Amare, no matter how good he looks against the Kings every year.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
JT
will be a star. Don’t put my hopes down
Wack To Mack With The General and The Back. (J-Mac and D-Mac)
Who has a spare point guard
but needs a big man like Miller to complement a moose down low?
by coolcatreportdotcom on Dec 11, 2008 10:24 PM PST reply actions
Hmmm
Charlotte – Augustin making Felton expendable.
Wow – that’s about it. I thought that I’d be able to find more than that. I must be missing at least a couple of opportunities.
Felton and Nazr Mohammed for Miller? The issue here would be the $6.9 million due to Naz in 2010.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
I saw that
I just don’t know if any of those teams would have much of an interest in Miller.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
I think that's the real problem
Not too many folks have an interest in a stiff making more than $11 million a season who isn’t expiring this year. Besides that, it’s hard to package $11 million on most teams without using 4-5 players.
by coolcatreportdotcom on Dec 11, 2008 11:09 PM PST up reply actions
Agreed
There are two different issues at play here – what we need and who needs Miller. Miller would be a nice addition for Orlando (for example), but they really don’t have the needed contractual pieces to make a deal work that would benefit the Kings. Enter the multi-team deal, but it’s damn hard to construct deals where all three or four teams get what they want out of a deal.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
Section, my questions are:
- Given his salary for this season and next, do you think there are any teams out there who would give you value for Brad now? I don’t think he’s a stiff but obviously not the player he was.
- Do you think the Brad will be more valuable next year as an expiring contract?
- Isn’t Mikki the contract we hope GP is focused on trading?
"We are in the business of kicking butt and business is very, very good." - Charles Barkley
Answers (these answers have 0-100% chance of being correct) -
I think that there could be teams that view Miller as an important piece at the trade deadline. For example, he would be a perfect fit with Dwight Howard and Hedo (or Lewis) on Orlando’s front line. The Bulls would be another example. But you’re right. If he does not begin to show more flashes of last year, he will have no more than Bibby value.
Miller might have more value as expiring, but we’ll still have K9(woof!), so if a deal has to be negotiated using expiring contract, we can always access the kennel.
Moore is not expensive this year and he has a cheap (relatively speaking) buyout next year. I think the desire to move Mikki has more to do with the fan’s desire not to have him sucking up JT’s potential minutes. If/when that becomes a concern to GP, he’ll sit down with Theus.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
In Association With
Ball Don't Lie - NBA - Yahoo! Sport
- Behind the Box Score, where the Heat grabbed control behind LeBron James’ amazing afternoon
- Behind the Box Score, where the Oklahoma City Thunder dominated the fourth quarter. Again
- Kevin Durant’s game-winner beats the Lakers in Game 4 (VIDEO)
- Behind the Box Score, where the Los Angeles Lakers answered at home
- Pau Gasol wins the 2011-2012 J. Walter Kennedy Citizenship Award
