Poll of the Indeterminate Time Period
by Ziller on Dec 15, 2008 9:46 AM PST
in Free Agency/Trades
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Hell Fucking Mother of God Yes do I approve of this trade
And I Shawn Marion as much as vfettke does. One of the most overrated players in all of NBA history, And I repeate: Hell Fucking Mother of God Yes do I approve of this deal. Brad Miller must go, yes, he must go.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
by pookeyguru on Dec 15, 2008 9:58 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
I hate Shawn Marion as much as vfettke does^
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
by pookeyguru on Dec 15, 2008 9:58 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Where is the dotted line?
I need a dotted line to sign on… Walking around signing random pieces of paper isn’t getting the trade finalized. Where is said dotted line!
Wait....Why is everybody clapping? Everyone around me is clapping.... I guess I should be clapping too... GO LAKERS!!! I hate living in So Cal
by 27freethrows on Dec 15, 2008 10:06 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Where is the flotsam? Where is the jetsam?
Where can I find the jet stream to send him to Miami in the next 5 secs? I mean cmon TZ! (Think I believe Brad should be gone? You betcha sirree bob.)
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
by pookeyguru on Dec 15, 2008 10:08 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Caveat
No, I do not like Marion per se. I do like the flexibility he would bring our lineup while the young players develop. Pair that with cap flexibility and the banishment of K9, and I’m in.
Wait....Why is everybody clapping? Everyone around me is clapping.... I guess I should be clapping too... GO LAKERS!!! I hate living in So Cal
by 27freethrows on Dec 15, 2008 10:09 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes please
"Don't sweat the petty stuff and don't pet the sweaty stuff." - My Dad, confusing me at a very young age.
by otis29 on Dec 15, 2008 10:08 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Best of all, Hoopsworld has never been wrong about anything
by nbrans on Dec 15, 2008 10:09 AM PST reply actions 4 recs
Rec'd
I like my snark full strength on Mondays. Well done.
by Ziller on Dec 15, 2008 10:15 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe...
I think that Miller and Thomas are going to be valuable as trade bait this off-season/ 2009/10 trade deadline. I don’t see Marion as a long term fix, mostly because I don’t think he will resign and he isn’t exactly a spring chicken. The Kings might be able to go after someone this off-season with the new cash windfall but the crop thinned out when Deng and Smith re-upped. I need an accurate ETO list because I keep seeing different names being mentioned.
Hot dogs, get your hot dogs.
by jjham15 on Dec 15, 2008 10:12 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Keep in mind
With Miller/K9 off the books, the Kings would be under the cap, and could still make a trade for a high-salaried player, which would be even MORE enticing because they wouldn’t have to send large salaries back.
Add to that the fact that Marion is a good prospect for a S&T, and there might be something additional coming back in the end.
In other words, this deal gives GP more options, without giving up the current ones.
by smgmatt on Dec 15, 2008 10:15 AM PST up reply actions 2 recs
Great point
I don’t know about the Marion S&T cuz that means other teams have to have cap space, but that could be done too I suppose. The cap space is what I’m interested in. Whose out there? Better question. But those are names are attainable.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
by pookeyguru on Dec 15, 2008 10:17 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
You sure about that?
If a team had cap space they wouldn’t need to do a S&T, they could just sign him.
S&T would be for teams without cap space.
I’m not saying I’d count on this as part of the deal (at all), just that it’s a possibility.
by smgmatt on Dec 15, 2008 10:20 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Yea I'm positive
Because that S&T player becomes BYC the moment say (the KIngs) sign Marion to that contract. That team, as you know, needs to have cap space in order to absorb that hit. (That’s as simple as it gets SMG. Sorry. I’m kinda flustered with the Reggie firing. I think I need to fire up the 1140 radio machine too.)
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
by pookeyguru on Dec 15, 2008 10:22 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
And btw when you're doing a S&T
What happens is say, the KIngs, want to trade Marion, to say, Milwaukee (picking a team that wouldn’t want Marion to start a stupid rumor—or I hope Mil doesn’t) and Milwaukee has the cap room. He becomes BYC for trading purposes, and say Mil negotiates that 15 million contract, Millwaukee can only trade 7.5 mil back (as you know smg), and Sacramento can take up to 15 million back in salary. That’s really how this works. So therefore, Milwaukee needs to have at least half the total cap room to make a S&T really work. And that’s without cap holds or anything like that (and cap holds eat up a shit ton of space I might add).
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
by pookeyguru on Dec 15, 2008 10:24 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe I'm mistaken
I can’t get Larry Coon’s site to load right now so I can’t check, but I thought that BYC was only when a player’s salary raised more than 20% from the previous year (or something along those lines).
by smgmatt on Dec 15, 2008 10:39 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Yep you're right on that
But a S&T automatically makes anybody BYC. I’ll look myself.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
by pookeyguru on Dec 15, 2008 10:41 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Here you go smg
Warning: for everyone else that isn’t TZ: Read all of the blurb here, if you want to understand more of what I"m saying. (Larry Coon’s FAQ is the best lament terms source for the CBA. And I don’t understand legalese.)
One complication with sign-and-trade deals is that the signed player can immediately become a BYC player (see question number 73 for more information on BYC), so the player’s BYC value must be used when determining whether the trade is allowed.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
by pookeyguru on Dec 15, 2008 10:52 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
So Technically SMG
You were very right. Although, Marion is in line for a bigger contract, and might actually receive one. He’s one of the players who received an old contract under the older CBA, so extending him to more money (unlikely) is possible I believe. The numbers, though, I"m not sure about. I don’t know enough to speculate.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
by pookeyguru on Dec 15, 2008 10:55 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
At almost $18M...
I think it’s safe to say he won’t be seeing a 20% raise next year.
by smgmatt on Dec 15, 2008 11:12 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah but that's at the end of the contract dude
You have to consider his total average salary, and then raise it. (Look on Patricia Bender’s website. She has all his salary info.)
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
by pookeyguru on Dec 15, 2008 11:18 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Even so...
I doubt he sees a 20% raise. That’s franchise money for a non-franchise guy.
by smgmatt on Dec 15, 2008 11:25 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
No question
I wont argue the point smg. And good call on calling me out. (I would have went on thinking he would have been BYC, but in fact, he probably won’t be.)
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
by pookeyguru on Dec 15, 2008 11:27 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Great point, I didn't think of that.
Hot dogs, get your hot dogs.
by jjham15 on Dec 15, 2008 10:20 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Amazingly
We may have found the one issue most of StR would agree upon.
"Don't sweat the petty stuff and don't pet the sweaty stuff." - My Dad, confusing me at a very young age.
by otis29 on Dec 15, 2008 10:14 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
I don't care about cap space Otis
I ain’t going to lie dude. I care about getting Miller away, and jettisoning K9, hell yeah. That’s just as good as having a draft pick if you ask me. It opens up a roster spot.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
by pookeyguru on Dec 15, 2008 10:16 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
It just amazes me
That Miami is hot on this deal. Any word on how Marion’s attitude has been in Miami?
"Don't sweat the petty stuff and don't pet the sweaty stuff." - My Dad, confusing me at a very young age.
by otis29 on Dec 15, 2008 10:18 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
No roster spot!
Mia has no roster spots open.So it would have to be player for player or a 2 for 3 like this to open a spot for Starbury for them.
by hudson101 on Dec 15, 2008 10:28 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Or
they just waive Jamaal Magloire, who is making about $1 million and is currently their 3rd string center – that’s 3rd string before Miller arrives.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
by section214 on Dec 15, 2008 10:39 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Pretty much
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
by pookeyguru on Dec 15, 2008 10:41 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
But why?
would we need two open roster spots?Why wouldn`t we just take on Magloire & a young guy?Besides adding Magloire would give us a true backup C.Don`t even call Moore or Williams a C.
by hudson101 on Dec 15, 2008 10:51 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Doesn't matter to me
I was just responding to Miami’s need to create a roster spot. Certainly it would make more sense for them to trade Magloire, as that way they don’t have to eat the remaining contract. As far as Wright or Cook, I wouldn’t need either of those guys to sweeten this deal.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
by section214 on Dec 15, 2008 11:53 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Wasn`t really trying to sweeten it, just make the money around the same.It doesn`t matter to me either,nobody or two others whatever.
by hudson101 on Dec 15, 2008 12:14 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
What about Marion/Magloire
For Thomas/Miller? That works too. (It’s not like the Kings are taking on a bucketload of Greenies to do that either. Most of Magloire’s salary is paid by the NBA.)
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
by pookeyguru on Dec 15, 2008 12:26 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah I get about 1.1 mill
But, again, good call.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
by pookeyguru on Dec 15, 2008 12:37 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah that's the part I'm worried about
However, and you gotta keep this in mind, that they’re probably not due to the fact that the league is paying a portion of Magloire’s salary. They’re just under the lux tax I think.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
by pookeyguru on Dec 15, 2008 1:12 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Trade machine says
they`re $348,301 over but that might not be right.
This would put them and us under LUXTAX & could get them to make deal by getting rid of Banks.
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=556849304021653196498510&teams=14141423232323&te=&cash=
by hudson101 on Dec 15, 2008 1:18 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
We are already under lux tax hudson
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
by pookeyguru on Dec 15, 2008 1:19 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
This would bring us up to $1400 from LUXTAX
while putting them under it.
We would take on 808,600.
We are 809,000 under as of now,I understand.
by hudson101 on Dec 15, 2008 1:26 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
That's without Shareef's salary
Which will be taken off at least half, I suspect, by the NBA due to his medical retirement.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
by pookeyguru on Dec 15, 2008 1:29 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Nobody seems to know the rules on SAR,ANYBODY?
Can somebody explain the rule for a retired player such as SAR or Cuttino concerning roster spots & cap relief?
by hudson101 on Dec 15, 2008 1:36 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
It's a matter of lots of stuff
He has to be ruled medically eligible to retire. (He has already cleared that hurdle.) The Kings just then need to apply for cap relief. (They haven’t done that officially yet as anyone knows.) A year also has to transpire before the application can be submitted, or sometihng like that. The KIngs couldn’t get this relief before December or January I bet.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
by pookeyguru on Dec 15, 2008 2:01 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Either way
I`m sure the luxtax is applyed after season,so we should be fine.
by hudson101 on Dec 15, 2008 2:06 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah it is done after the season
But everything I’d seen was that the KIngs were roughly around 760 K below the lux tax threshold.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
by pookeyguru on Dec 15, 2008 2:12 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Levien
will deal with it asap
I’m sure
Cisco? Cisco? CISCO!!!! #*$!%! !
by lietothegirls on Dec 15, 2008 2:17 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Brad Miller to Miami makes tons of sense
It works for both teams, granted Marion is in no way the future, since you want to get Jason Thompson playing time, but hey, he expires and you find a decent sub big behind Hawes, I mean seriously, that’s $17 million to play with there. Miller becomes the starting C in a very center thin club. I like it, especially because you get rid of Kenny Thomas, so worth it. Kenny Thomas is not a roster spot, he’s a cap space eater.
by Jaceman on Dec 15, 2008 11:27 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Thats the only reason I'd do it
I hate SM
(S&M – I’m okay with)
Cisco? Cisco? CISCO!!!! #*$!%! !
by lietothegirls on Dec 15, 2008 2:15 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
WHY?
Why do this trade? You would have to resign Marion for more money and take yourself out of the 2010 free agency sweepstakes. Or you let him walk at the end of this year and get nothing in return. Who could you attract here to sign then? And why add another wing to a team full of wings? Where would he play? What would you do with Garcia, Salmons, and Greene? Keep Miller and Thomas until next year where they will be more valuable as salary dumps and you can get more or let them walk in 2010 when the free agency market is better.
by Minhvincible on Dec 15, 2008 3:11 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Why do this trade?
Cap relief
You would have to resign Marion for more money and take yourself out of the 2010 free agency sweepstakes. Or you let him walk at the end of this year and get nothing in return.
Marion would not be resigned. You save something like $20 million next season, making yourself a major player in the free agent market or among teams who have decided to rebuild. The Clippers got Marcus Camby for nothing because they had cap space. You’re not getting anything of value for Miller and Thomas anyway.
And why add another wing to a team full of wings? Where would he play?
Power Forward, where he has averaged 10 rebounds a game for his career.
What would you do with Garcia, Salmons, and Greene?
Nothing. Marion would start at Power Forward for the rest of this season. Thompson (presumably) would get the backup minutes at Power Forward.
Keep Miller and Thomas until next year where they will be more valuable as salary dumps and you can get more or let them walk in 2010 when the free agency market is better.
I’m not sure how they’re more valuable than cap space next season. If the Kings made this deal, they would be at something like $40 million in salary next season. The cap is about $55 million, so the Kings could trade for a $15 million player without sending anything back. This is the same as holding on to those guys and trading them for a $15 million player. The Kings could just easily stand pat with the cap space and wait until 2010.
The advantage of trading them now is that you could pick up a Carlos Boozer this offseason along with a Ricky Rubio or Brandon Jennings in the draft, setting yourself up to be really good in a couple years.
Shut up and Coach
by Carl on Dec 15, 2008 4:12 PM PST up reply actions 3 recs
One more note
If the Kings cut Mikki Moore, they could be down to $36 million next season, if my calculations are correct.
Shut up and Coach
by Carl on Dec 15, 2008 4:15 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Rec'd
For general intelligence and basketball knowledge.
Wait....Why is everybody clapping? Everyone around me is clapping.... I guess I should be clapping too... GO LAKERS!!! I hate living in So Cal
by 27freethrows on Dec 15, 2008 5:40 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Don't think of it as a trade for Marion.
Think of it as a trade for one of these guys. I would also point out that nobody seems to think we can get a very good player in the long term for Brad or (certainly) Kenny. At best we get a project. Being under the cap gives us tremendous flexibility for trades as well.
by Deleran on Dec 15, 2008 4:47 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I sure hope
Spencer’s (at season start) questionable knees hold up if this trade goes down.
by gtrman1973 on Dec 15, 2008 7:29 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Well his knees will have to hold up regardless
I don’t see how that has anything to do with a trade.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
by pookeyguru on Dec 16, 2008 4:44 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Agree with that
but I think that trading BMiller would only leave the Kings with one legit center if we get Marion in return. Don’t like the thought of starting Mikki at center.
by gtrman1973 on Dec 17, 2008 4:26 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
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