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Around SBN: Guest Blogger: Juco All-American Answers Five Questions

One More Time: EDDIE JORDAN

Ej_medium

rbiegler lobbed the ball at the rim flawlessly, section214 slammed it home. I guess I'm here for garbage time.

As Biegler argued, we have an offensive-minded GM, an offensive-minded roster and an offensive-minded fan base. The last two coaches have not implemented solid offensive schemes. We know how dear to Petrie the Princeton offense has been his entire life. We know how well Kevin Martin, Francisco Garcia and Brad Miller played under the scheme. I think to a fan, we all adore Pete Carril.

Digging through the SI Vault, I popped in on this 2003 feature on the Princeton. The whole thing is worth a re-read. But this passage completely sums my intentions with the obsessive Eddie Jordan advocacy to come:

No "pod" of the Princeton offense has been more fascinating to follow than the one Carril has established in the NBA in his quest to bring his five-man passing game to a league dominated by me-first 'tudes, isolation plays and pick-and-rolls. For years, though, Carril had maintained that his creation would in fact work beautifully, given the speed and athleticism of NBA players. " Michael Jordan would be one of the great beneficiaries of this," Carril says, "because he's totally fundamentally sound."

In the end it took four sales over a five-year period to seal the deal. First, Carril convinced Eddie Jordan, then a fellow Kings assistant, over a season's worth of breakfasts, lunches and late-night bus rides. Jordan was elevated to head coach, and though the Kings dumped him in 1998 after one full season—injuries had doomed his version of Princeton, proving a Van Breda Kolff adage ("It's not what you do, it's who's doing it")—Jordan still believed in the system when he joined the Nets as an assistant in '99. Two years later, he persuaded head coach Byron Scott to let the Nets run part of Carril's scheme in the NBA summer league. They finished 6-1. Intrigued, Scott timed the offense against the shot clock during the coaches' pickup games, and it came in under 24 seconds. He decided to take the leap.

The Nets went to the Finals the next two seasons. Then E.J. turned Washington into one of the best offenses in the world.

I don't mean to assert hiring Jordan sets this team on a path toward immediate glory. But Petrie is about to make his move. We need a proper shepherd. A better one than Jordan, given all circumstances, does not exist.

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Damn

Got me wanting EJ as our coach now.

It's called Sex Panther by Odeon. It's illegal in nine countries... Yep, it's made with bits of real panther, so you know it's good.

by what_the_crap on Dec 15, 2008 4:18 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Plus

He’s sporting the muffstache in that photo.

Shut up and Coach

by Carl on Dec 15, 2008 4:22 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Even the monkey approves

He looks less evil now that you’ve said that. Wtg Carl!

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on

by pookeyguru on Dec 15, 2008 5:48 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

answer to the question?

Many today have posed the question: why fire Reggie now? Could the reported flirtation with EJ by Philly have something to do with it? I still think that the Saturday night performance could not be tolerated, but perhaps Philly’s flirtation was the final straw….count me convinced… he should be offered the job. Let’s move on with it, the teaching should begin now, not next training camp.

by longtimelistenerfirsttimecaller on Dec 15, 2008 4:53 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

My guess is

The timing of Reggie’s firing had less to do with EJ than it had to do with the schedule. I think the Maloofs wanted to start the team off with a win after Reggie got canned, and the next most likely opportunity for that isn’t until we face Washington on the 21st. But hey, what do I know?

"Shut up and Coach!"
Vfettke

by SavageBeast on Dec 15, 2008 6:06 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

Okay, I'll be the first to ask it

I totally agree that we have an offense-minded GM and an offensively talented group of players (no offensive jokes here.) But do we have owners that will be satisfied with more offense? Their complaints have not been about our offense. And frankly, most of our games haven’t been lost because of low scoring. IMHO, we need a coach that can continue to let us score, while also finding a way to stop somebody, anybody.

I don’t think we are a team that is ever going to play a SA type game. (At least I hope not!) But we have not had a decent defensive rotation all year (not counting brief blips.) And I’m not sure I am convinced that our players cannot play D. We know Salmons can play D, Shock has the rebounding and athleticism, Hawes can clearly block and board, Speed has the, well speeed. Garcia is a tiger. Beno . . . well anyway, we should be able to guard everyone but speedy point guards.

To me, drafting an offensive minded coach is like putting gasoline on a fire. The scoring is there, and I don’t want it to go away. But somebody has to implement a defense that doesn’t give up 40+ points in a quarter. Is that EJ?

"Shut up and Coach!"
Vfettke

by SavageBeast on Dec 15, 2008 5:35 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

I don't buy the need for the Princeton

The Princeton is the small ball version of the half court offense. Based on need to bring the opponents center away from the basket because your big is outmatched. If Spencer is the low post phenom to be, and if we get a pure PG in the draft or if we win the Thabeet lottory, then their isn’t a need to run the Princeton.

Yes, the fluidity is fun to watch, but their are a lot of teams that are fun to watch that don’t fun the Princeton. The down sides to me are that it requires that both the starting center and the reserve be excellent passer and good outside shooters or your offense faulters when your starter leave the floor. Also, all that movement and passing can lead to TO’s. And, the best reason to run it is the backdoor passes to Martin which can be run just as well out of the center high post Triangle.

The best offense is the one that fits your roster, and any experienced coach should be able to come up with a scheme that works. With a roster next year, that contains maybe 7 or 8 first, second & third year players, on a rebuilding team, then you need the best teacher and inovator as your coach.

"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom

by HighTops on Dec 15, 2008 5:36 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Well let's see

I like EJ, and always have. I have no problem with EJ, and the sooner the better, well, the sooner the better.

Every point one can make about the Maloof’s believing that defense wins championships (they sure quote ESPN good don’t they?) seems to make sense, although I’ve always been of the opinion that the best team usually wins the games, and there is more than one way to do that. (People seem to think an offense can’t operate at a high capacity during the playoffs. Sorry, but that’s wrong. It just hasn’t happened so often that it’s a trend. It’s easier to clear out one side and give it to Michael Jordan. Look how well that’s worked for a non-Kobe/LeBron team since.)

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on

by pookeyguru on Dec 15, 2008 5:52 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Don't disagree with anything you say

But my questions is still, are we losing because we don’t score enough points or because the other team scores too many? I’m all for the mindset of—the other team doesn’t get easy shots off made baskets. And usually that is the case. But this year, teams score off made baskets, missed baskets, timeouts, blown plays, no plays, jump balls, and, according to some posters, lack of balls. I love a high scoring game. But I’m still going to be just as unhappy losing by twenty even if we score 120 points a night. Whoever we bring in, has got to bring some kind of defensive game plan.

"Shut up and Coach!"
Vfettke

by SavageBeast on Dec 15, 2008 5:58 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Course SB

It’s like me saying you’re responsible for polygamy becuz you’re Morman. You’re not; for crying out loud polygamy is a problem in several area’s of the world today. (Kenya anybody? I don’t think they’re Morman. I point this out becuz Barack Obama talked about it in his first book. His father, and grandfather, had many wives.) Anyway, the point I’m getting at is do you blame the chicken or the egg for the problem. (That’s the Morman to polygamy analogy folks.) You can’t motivated non defensive players to play defense if they don’t trust you. These veterans (at the very least) didn’t trust Reggie much, and the team was frustrated.

I don’t think they’re terrible at defense, but the best this group can be is very good. But it can be terrific offensively as we all know, and commitment to running a great offense, with emphasis on defense, has to be part of the game plan. But this team is so flawed I don’t see how that’s even remotely possible. Especially since Bobby “mouth” Jackson is part of this group, and Bobby’s best defensive years were his first two in Sacramento. I won’t even bad mouth Brad Miller anymore. My fingers are tired of typing his name.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on

by pookeyguru on Dec 15, 2008 6:06 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Hey I would be proud to have started polygamy

Man I would be on every talk show in town. I’d definitely have my own reality show. But the fact of the matter is, one LPA is all I can handle.

I agree 100% with the B-Jax comment. I was really pissed about him claiming the team thinks they can turn it off and on. Except for one game this year, he has been permanently off. And Brad should be shown the door as soon as we get a decent offer.

My point though, and I do have one, I think, is, let’s take a team like the Oakland Raiders. Yeah, I know we’ve changed sports, but hang with me. They suck on offense and defense. So I’d take a coach that could improve either one. (Assuming he’d work for the cadaver, which is unlikely.) But the Kings aren’t the Raiders, yet. They have shown they can score in bunches. Their O is at least relatively solid.

So I don’t need a coach to help them score a ton more points. They are clearly, clearly weak on every aspect of defense (except for possibly rebounding.) So what i want is a coach/assistant coach who can take these young guys aside and train them on how to play D right. I need to go back and look at the stats, but what I’d want to know is did EJ improve Washington’s D?

With all the talented coaches out there right now, and with the fact that the Maloofs have shown a willingness to spend, can’t we do better than EJ?

 

"Shut up and Coach!"
Vfettke

by SavageBeast on Dec 15, 2008 6:17 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

PS

I guess I have to change my sig. now. Maybe shut up and go away?

"Shut up and Coach!"
Vfettke

by SavageBeast on Dec 15, 2008 6:18 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Well okay

Let’s look at this. Is there a coach out there going to make this defense ridiculously better? I doubt it SB. I really do. Adelman had a team that for a few years was in the top half, and it was never good enough. Everyone harped on what he didn’t do while he was here, and now, everyone’s saying, look how good we had it? Well, at some point, there has to be give & take.

I would be happy that these guys listened to Kenny Natt, and played like they cared when the Lakers weren’t the opponents. That would be a step up for this group. Everything else can come with time. Rome wasn’t built in a day. Neither will a championship roster in Sacramento.

P.S. One LPA is enough for StR.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on

by pookeyguru on Dec 15, 2008 6:24 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

since we are stretching metaphors

if the Kings are Rome – was Reggie Theus their Nero?

by betweentheeyes on Dec 15, 2008 7:14 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Mebbe

But if Miller couldn’t take Theus, he’s really going to love Pat Riley Erik Spoelstra.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on

by pookeyguru on Dec 16, 2008 4:07 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I still think Eddie Jordan could head back to Memphis to coach the Grizzlies

on a less serious side – it has been oft said that EJ bears a resemblence to Terence Howard. I want him here to implement some Hustle and Flow.

and Kevin Martin should be a bit worried as “it’s hard out here for a gimp”

by betweentheeyes on Dec 15, 2008 7:07 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

I Believe the Kings are one player away from a better defense !!!

Bench Miller. Simple really. When you watch what Miller does defensively, how many points he allows with his pathetic defense, how many points are scored playing off whoever Miller is guarding, then finding the open man when the other players have to help out on Miller’s man because he cant guard his own mommy. Add to that the offensive rebounds and putbacks he is unable to prevent and then add up what he scores and actually rebounds and you will see that Brad Miller is giving up THREE TIMES the buckets he makes and FIVE TIMES the Rebounds. If you Bench Miller, and start the Youngsters, you may have rookie mistakes, but there will be hustle, there will be athleticism, and best of all, there will be no Miller. Miller is THE WORST DEFENDER AT THE CENTER POSITION IN THE LEAGUE PERIOD !!!!!! Taking Miller out of the lineup improves the team dramatically

by FaStRmAn on Dec 15, 2008 7:10 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

The thing about Eddie is

Your offense will improve dramatically with him. And, up to a certain point, your youngish guys will blossom. I have no doubt that Udrih, K-Mart, Thompson, Shawes etc. will be great fits for the system and will see their production rise. Particularly Beno and Garcia. The system is tailored perfectly for teams like Sacramento that have no pure points, but have several wings with decent passing skills.

But like others have said, Eddie Jordan teams do not play good defense. I realize Washington wasn’t exactly stocked with top-rate defensive talent, but the scheming didn’t help matters. Eddie tends to want to play smaller centers with offensive skill when bigger guys are better fits defensively (see his jerking around of Brendan Haywood). His teams double down in the post incessantly and leave the three-point line open like crazy. Last year, the Wizards set an NBA record for the most number of threes surrendered in a single season.

And one thing that Eddie certainly exhibits is stubborness. Many of Washington’s newest draft picks did not receive proper playing time under him. I’m talking about guys like Blatche, Nick Young, etc. Not to mention Brendan Haywood. Sacramento’s got too much youth to worry about that now, but it might rear its head again.

With the right mix, Eddie can be unbelievably successful. From watching him coach for several years now, though, it needs to be the perfect mix. Before injury, Washington was an extremely well-constructed club. They eschewed the pure point concept and instead stockpiled talented combo guards (Arenas, Hughes, even Daniels to a certain extend). Offensively, Jamison, as a big that is one of the best cutters in basketball, has an all-court game that slower power forwards can’t deal with, and he gave the added benefit of being an excellent rebounder. The trade for Caron Butler provided another guy who would benefit from a quick-moving system while not necessarily being a strong isolation player. Darius Songaila is the perfect Princeton reserve big (wish he could rebound a bit), while Blatche and JaVale McGee were drafted to be face-up centers. Eddie basically got the exact team he needed, and they still only won 40-45 games. A lot of that is injury and some of that is the lack of defensive talent, but a lot of that is simply that it’s tough to find good Princeton players that also play defense well. It can be done to varying degrees of success, but it’s difficult.

So expect short-term gain, but long-term, it’s going to be tough to find another Vlade or C-Webb. And that’s why, as good a coach as he is, Eddie will always struggle to have a strong win-loss record.

My two cents though. And none of this means he is a bad hire. He’s probably the perfect hire. I’m just saying that Eddie has his shortcomings that’ll be difficult to overcome if this team wants to eventually be a title contender.

You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.

by Mike Prada on Dec 15, 2008 7:41 PM PST reply actions   2 recs

As I read the post again

I realize that’s just a long-winded elaboration of TZ’s last paragraph.

You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.

by Mike Prada on Dec 15, 2008 7:45 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

the other question is:

if not Eddie Jordan, than who?

by betweentheeyes on Dec 15, 2008 8:25 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Well I think that's the point

But as a Wiz fan, I’m just telling you about Eddie’s shortcomings.

You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.

by Mike Prada on Dec 15, 2008 8:26 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

and your comments are a nice reality check

the other thing is – no coach is an island; what is the average number of assistants these days? Perhaps the next Tom Thibodeau waits in the wings.

by betweentheeyes on Dec 15, 2008 9:49 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah I knew you were going to say stuff like that Prada

Which is why, I’m not convinced Eddie Jordan can do anything with this club that Reggie couldn’t have done had it been healthy (and the fact the vets tuned him out).

That all being said, I’m hoping Houston gets frustrated with Adelman, and lets him go, and the Maloof’s mend their fences with Rick, and say we need ya back Ricky boy!

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on

by pookeyguru on Dec 16, 2008 4:05 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

me too

i miss rick adelman :(

Hit the clutch, hit the gear, hit the gas and im GONE!!!

by Robby1987 on Dec 16, 2008 1:02 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Thanks for the insight!

Much appreciated view from someone that obviously does their homework.

The more you guys work the trade machine, the happier I am GP is our GM.

by ForThree on Dec 16, 2008 5:56 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Who are you? John Whisenant?

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on

by pookeyguru on Dec 16, 2008 11:43 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Give me a proven winner

or stick with Natt until a proven winner becomes available. If we’re lucky, maybe Natt will show something.

I know there’s got to be some boneheaded team that’s going to fire a good coach because he takes them to the playoffs but gets bounced too early. Patience.

by coolcatreportdotcom on Dec 16, 2008 7:52 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

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