Brad Miller to Chicago?
Last weekend, Sam Amick kicked off the Brad Miller trade rumors with an assessment of his place on the team, given Spencer Hawes' development and the team's current record.
As noted in the FanPosts, the Chicago Tribune published a light dose of Bulls-Kings rumorage today.
General manager John Paxson confirmed he has been active in trade talks. "We've had a lot of conversation, trying to find things that fit," Paxson told media before the game. It's known the Bulls have had talks with the Kings, though it's unclear who on that roster interests the Bulls. Former Bull Brad Miller is available. ... Gooden's expiring contract and solid averages that are near a double-double could attract interest.
Potential matches are being discussed in the above-linked FanPost, but it seems clear to me there's one easy swap that fulfills both team's goals: Miller for Drew Gooden and Tyrus Thomas.
The Kings will not be taking extra salary for 2009-10, 2010-11 or 2011-12 just to lose Miller, whose contract expires in 2010. Thomas isn't valuable enough on the market for Sacramento to become the salary loser here.
At the same time, he's about the best available "promising forward" out there -- really, a smart GM wouldn't have him on the block right now because you're not going to get fair value. But could Thomas' value sit high enough for Chicago to try to lose some '09-10 salary of its own, a la Larry Hughes instead of Gooden? I don't think so. Chicago can get under the cap for the summer of 2010. But by taking back Miller, the team further ensures there's no chance to trim enough payroll to be under in the summer of 2009. For salary matters, Gooden (expires '09) vs. Hughes (expires '10) really doesn't matter for Chicago. With Vinny Del Negro employing a lot of smallball (with Andres Nocioni and Luol Deng playing some power forward), the forward glut is more obvious than the vaunted overcrowding in the backcourt. (Remember, Kirk Hinrich is out until February.)
Chicago shouldn't do this deal -- Thomas is much more valuable than an 18-month Miller rental. But from my vantage point, it looks plausible. And of course, it'd be a steal for the Kings.
Comments
Miller gone?
Either way he`s gone,don`t know if it`s Chi.
Could be Mia,Cha,Orl,who knows who else.
Brad works for a lot of teams!
by hudson101 on
Dec 18, 2008 12:15 PM PST
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Love the idea of tyrus thomas.
As long as the coaches tell him to “only dunk,” because his jumper is terrible. terrible. I think he still has huge ability, hes just still young.
by Citadel 29 on
Dec 18, 2008 12:16 PM PST
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wrong players
everyone is talking about getting below the cap in 2010 and even 2009, but the problem for the kings that has been mentioned before is (i) it’s going to be hard to compete for the high profile free agents as a small market team, and (ii) we’re going to have to overpay in order to do so. that being said, i think the kings should trade miller for hinrich and noah.
heard rumors that noah is on the outs with the bulls, and i think he is what the kings would need. he’s not good offensively, but he can bring energy, board and hopefully learn to play defense…best case scenario, a young more athletic ben wallace.
tyrus is just a bust if he continues on the path he’s on…he too can be a good energy guy that should be able to board and play defense, but he thinks he can be some offensive superstar…watched a few bulls games this year and he takes a lot of shots that he has no business taking…17 foot jumpers?!?…he needs to realize that his value is in his energy and athleticism and not necessarily his basketball skills (e.g., ball handling, shooting).
so the rub here is hinrich and his contract which runs through the ‘11-’12 season. his salary is $10mil this year and gets progressively smaller to $8mil in the last season. i still think hinrich can play at a high level…he’s just been on a dysfunctional team (starting last year) with all those guys (deng, gordan, thomas) trying to cash in…he can be a very good pg on a team that emphasizes teamwork and passing (e.g., princeton offense…let’s hire ej already!). we all know beno isn’t the answer…we should try to trade him this year…he doesn’t have an atrocious salary…what about to the gs dubs for wright or randolph (hear about those felton rumors?). plus, the kings should definitely draft a pg next year, but it’s a stretch to think that some 19 or 20 year old is going to step right in and run the show…as far as i’m hearing, there isn’t a d. rose in this year’s draft class. hinrich would be a good fit for a couple of years until our pg of the future is ready to take over and then, hinrich could also play some back-up 1 or 2.
by willski on
Dec 18, 2008 12:26 PM PST
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Noah more athletic than Ben Wallace?
maybe this second, but Noah will never, ever, be the athlete Ben Wallace was or even come close to making the defensive contributions Wallace did in his prime.
Heinrich is too much money for so much risk and so little upside. Its very possible Heinrich is Beno but slower and with a much worse contract. There’s some chance he could be the player you describe, but we already have an investment in a player like that, Beno.
The more you guys work the trade machine, the happier I am GP is our GM.
by ForThree on
Dec 18, 2008 12:32 PM PST
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The Hinrich maneuver
That’s what I’ll need, because I would gag on Kirk’s four year, $36.5 million contract. The guy is more expensive than Udrih and less effective (he has been behind Udrih in PER since the beginning of last year).
Thomas could be a bust, but so could any high draft pick. If the change of scenery suits him, he could be a very nice fit here.
To paraphrase Amy Whinehouse – “You say you want Hinrich, I say no, no, no!”
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
by section214 on
Dec 18, 2008 12:40 PM PST
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Heinrich and Noah?
Heinrich is a nice player but his contract is terrible. Noah is average to slightly above average at best as a center. With Kirk, you are stuck with his high contract for 4 more years. Gooden and Thomas would be a much better fit for the Kings who need athleticism, youth and rebounding. Thomas has much more potential than Noah and Gooden is cheaper and can start right now as the power forward. A PF who can rebound better than any Kings player AND score 15ppg
"Oh, boy! This website is very good. Hey, let's talk about the Raiders!" - "Peaches" Napier
by dalt99 on
Dec 18, 2008 12:49 PM PST
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I would like
to point out that Hinrich has a contract the descends in value.
and 8 mill for a starting pg who has a solid assist-turnover ratio, shoots pretty well (barring last year) and plays hard-nosed D is not a bad thing what with the Chris Pauls and Deron Williams of the world. Plus Hinrich is still in his mid 20’s and is just starting to enter his prime. I would be willing to take a risk on him if and only if we were able to send say Miller/Moore/Douby over for Hinrich/Gooden/(Thomas/Noah). It would increase out defensive ability straight away (well once kirk comes back from injury) But with Gooden a solid man-man defender and a guy who is willing to take a charge and a better offensive game than moore that seems like a wash and Hinrich would at least be able to play some perimeter D on opposing PG’s.
Blessings.Love.Peace
by lifestyleforthesellout on
Dec 18, 2008 2:20 PM PST
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Descending Contract
So he goes from grossly overpaid to just overpaid. Dude makes more than Udrih and isn’t any better. His “D” is actually not that great, as his “hard-nosed” play does not make up for the fact that he is rather slow afoot.
A big part of our problem these past few years was the money we had invested at PF with little or no return on that investment. Do we really want to commit $15.6/15.5/15.5/14.9 million to Hinrich/Udrih over the next four years (and no responding “Trade Beno,” as that would be easier said than done right now).
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
by section214 on
Dec 18, 2008 2:42 PM PST
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I think
That you are judging Hinrich on last year and last year alone.
Which is not really a fair assesment of him.
Bibby played AWFUL. For us the last season and a half or so. Got a change of scenery to a team that he wanted to be on with intriguing young parts and he is back to his old ways of protecting the ball dishing out a few dimes and hitting his shots at a solid clip.
But to say that Hinrich is no better than Beno is a stretch IMO.
I will admit that he is “over-paid”
But again 8 mill. for a solid PG is not all that much considering what other decent PG’s are making and the atrocious Beno contract.
I would prefer to have Beno as my second tier PG and someone like Hinrich as my 1st option.
And you can be slow but still play solid D (ala Billups)
Blessings.Love.Peace
by lifestyleforthesellout on
Dec 18, 2008 4:51 PM PST
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Yeah but at 14.5 million
That’s not really worth it.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
by pookeyguru on
Dec 18, 2008 4:55 PM PST
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Btw
Can you name all the teams Billups played for before he settled in Detroit? (That’s how many times it took him to get settled in any city before finding the right spot. It’s amazing how much a system in this league can make or break a guy.)
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
by pookeyguru on
Dec 18, 2008 4:57 PM PST
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And the answer is
Boston, Toronto, Denver (the first time around), didn’t suit up for Orlando, but was on their roster, then to Minnesota, then to Detroit, and now back in Denver for the final stint I assume.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
by pookeyguru on
Dec 18, 2008 5:04 PM PST
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True
Billups was thought as a combo guard for a long time, and a failed PG and a “journeyman” even.
Then Detroit wins the finals and goes to the ECF 6 times and he is Mr. Big Shot.
Does not discredit his D AND he has had Denver playing better ball since he got their.
My point is 8 mill for KH is not that bad considering a lot of the other horrid contracts that we have.
Blessings.Love.Peace
by lifestyleforthesellout on
Dec 19, 2008 11:39 AM PST
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Hmm, interesting logic
My point is 8 mill for KH is not that bad considering a lot of the other horrid contracts that we have.
I already have the clap and hepatitis, so I may as well get AIDS too.
Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott
by Kfan in Korea on
Dec 19, 2008 6:01 PM PST
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Wait a minute -
Does that make k9(woof!) the clap or does it make him hepatitis? I always thought of him as parvo.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
by section214 on
Dec 19, 2008 8:10 PM PST
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I Like The Idea
Wack To Mack With The General and The Back. (J-Mac and D-Mac)
by Rayder K on
Dec 18, 2008 3:40 PM PST
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Ok last chance to get rid of K9!
C for C
G for G
2 PF`s for 2 PF`s
by hudson101 on
Dec 18, 2008 12:35 PM PST
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This will never be accepted
Wack To Mack With The General and The Back. (J-Mac and D-Mac)
by Rayder K on
Dec 18, 2008 3:41 PM PST
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what he said
Hudson – larry hughes?
Donte? Donte'! Donté?!?!
'spect da 'xtra E'
by iashwash on
Dec 18, 2008 7:32 PM PST
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Miller Trade to Bulls?
For Drew Gooden and Tyrus Thomas? If I had any say, I would do that trade in a heartbeat. Drew is a great rebounder and a much better offensive scorer (he’s averaging 13.2 rebounds and 18.8 points per 40 minutes in his past 5 games) than most people think. He’s only 27 years old and is athletic. MUCH more athletic than Brad. A Spencer/Gooden frontline would be fairly formidable. Another good thing about Gooden is he’s strong. Not Dwight Howard strong but not a pushover like Brad. With Tyrus Thomas in the deal I think it’s a no brainer. Tyrus is 22 years old, a nice PF and is an exceptional shot blocker as well as being athletic. Getting two young and younger athletic players back for one aging, slow veteran is a must do move. If it’s on the table Petrie has to take it IMO.
"Oh, boy! This website is very good. Hey, let's talk about the Raiders!" - "Peaches" Napier
by dalt99 on
Dec 18, 2008 12:43 PM PST
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I'm agree but
I also think that Gooden is better scorer than people think, and Thomas is also a great YOUNG player, but….we would have a lot of tall men: Hawes, Thompson, Gooden, Thomas, Moore, Williams. A deal with Shelden?
by Matenja on
Dec 18, 2008 12:51 PM PST
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Big men
I would rather have decent big men for trade then a bunch of wing players and so-so guards. I think that big men are much more tradeable. I could be wrong though – look at K9 (woof!)
"Oh, boy! This website is very good. Hey, let's talk about the Raiders!" - "Peaches" Napier
by dalt99 on
Dec 18, 2008 3:17 PM PST
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K-9 is smaller than alot of shooting guards/small forward
No fault of his own, but “Big man” is a bit of an overreach.
Donte? Donte'! Donté?!?!
'spect da 'xtra E'
by iashwash on
Dec 18, 2008 7:31 PM PST
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No
Kenny just sucks worse than all the other big men.
"Oh, boy! This website is very good. Hey, let's talk about the Raiders!" - "Peaches" Napier
by dalt99 on
Dec 19, 2008 11:42 AM PST
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K-9 was always an 'energy guy'
who as he got older was unable to overcome his physical and shooting deficiencies and remain effective.
Thats the danger of overpaying energy guys for too many years.
"You keep on using that word
I do not think it mean what you think it means"
by lietothegirls on
Dec 19, 2008 2:51 PM PST
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Not that big on Tyrus Thomas myself
I’m not sure if his struggles have to do with the coaching (Skiles, Boylan, or Del Negro), but I am sure that if he was as good as some believe, he’d get more PT. Maybe I’m wrong, and if this is the best deal, go for it. I’m just not convinced it really is.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
by pookeyguru on
Dec 18, 2008 12:58 PM PST
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Good Question
If the best deal is out there, is Tyrus Thomas/Drew Gooden, for Brad Miller, then so be it, you gotta do it. (And if Thomas turns out to be a tremendously gifted 3rd player in the rotation, or whatever, then so be it. But I’m not convinced, and the kid needs more time. He also needs to grow up, but perhaps he needs to leave the Bulls. I’m not against TT though, for the record, by any stretch of the imagination. Noah? I only have one thing to say on Noah. And I can’t say what i want to say, and I’ll leave it at that.)
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
by pookeyguru on
Dec 18, 2008 1:06 PM PST
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I think the biggest issue with TT is...
his attitude. That’s what’s stopped him so far, imo. However, as Kings fans we lov young athletic forwards with crappy attitudes.
www.mancancook.net
by vfettke on
Dec 18, 2008 1:44 PM PST
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Great line vf
Rec’d just for that line alone.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
by pookeyguru on
Dec 18, 2008 1:54 PM PST
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Another thing to keep in mind
Thomas is fairly low risk. He’ll make a combined $8.4 million this year and next. If he doesn’t work out for us he can be gone.
www.mancancook.net
by vfettke on
Dec 18, 2008 2:51 PM PST
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that's a good point, but...
…my concern about TT is that his problem is low IQ even moreso than immaturity/attitude…
…and I have yet to see anybody who watches him in Chicago stand up for him, go out on a limb and say “he’ll really be something if he gets a change of scenery”
Life is every mammal's journey from very very wet to very very dry.
by Holmdel on
Dec 18, 2008 7:39 PM PST
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how wrong you are :)
USE THE SOFTWARE. Actions-> Rec/Flag. Reply to comments with the reply button. Rec good fanposts/fanshots so the crud gets pushed down.
by your friendly BullsBlogger on
Dec 18, 2008 8:38 PM PST
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good to hear
even if it is from someone with incentive to drive up TT’s value on his way out of town :)
Life is every mammal's journey from very very wet to very very dry.
by Holmdel on
Dec 18, 2008 9:14 PM PST
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I am on the boat with Holmdel adn Vfettke
the problem with Ty Thomas is both attitude and game IQ. He has athleticism out the wazoo, and therefore potential. Chicago has a knack for drafting talent with bad attitude (Eddy Curry anyone?). Personally, if there is one thing I would hate to see on this Sacramento King team is bad attitude. We are suffering for wins but we fans keep believing and supporting this team, particularly the young guys because they have heart and desire. Gimme a team with "care not" and I will reflect it back – I will give up my fandom.
So am I being extreme in this example – of course, Ty Thomas might be a great kid who needs direction and will be a future all-star. Or he may be (take your pick) Stromile Swift/Jerome James which is where he is now. I prefer to predict on what is now – assets/deficits.
As for Joakim Naoh – he seems the opposite: ok basketball skills, nice athleticism, questionable hands, good hoops IQ, great heart and I do think he needs a scenery. Will he be a star? He was drafted before SHawes; one is a potential all-star, one a career back up. I think both can contribute but very differently. Interesting stuff
The key to the deal is essentially Miller for Gooden. Gooden has had his chances and has a history of disappointing. I think if the salaries work significantly in the Kings favor do the deal, otherwise I don’t think this helps the Kings very much. I would search for a better deal.
by betweentheeyes on
Dec 18, 2008 10:30 PM PST
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agree
i agree with your noah vs. thomas assesment. thomas could be a star, but the more reasonable expectation is a solid third off the bench to support shock and hawes…noah would be a better fit for that role…thomas would think he’s a starter and a star at that and would have a bad attitude about being the third big.
by willski on
Dec 19, 2008 7:29 AM PST
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Noah
pookey and I have been going around and around on this for quite a while, and I’d be OK with rolling the dice on Tyrus Thomas, but for my money Joakim Noah would bring a lot to the Kings.
The kid is a real, honest-to-gawd basketball player. He rebounds, he gets up and down the floor, he looks for the open man and keeps the ball moving and makes good decisions on the court.
He’s only 23 years old, he’s very athletic and is still adding muscle to his frame.
Noah could develop into a very, very good player over the next few years. Yes, he has a big hoops IQ and what’s more he plays with passion, and the fans at Arco would get a kick out of seeing him hustle, diving for loose balls, fighting for boards, pumping his fist.
Either way, it’s time to move Brad, and getting a young big man with upside who can play defense is just what I’d like to see coming back to Sacramento.
"When the going gets Weird, the Weird turn professional."
(Hunter Thompson)
by Mucho Moss on
Dec 20, 2008 1:23 AM PST
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Get 'er done Petrie
Get ’er done
www.mancancook.net
by vfettke on
Dec 18, 2008 1:28 PM PST
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Tyrus Thomas is good
He’s only 22 and he’d only make our future frontline better. In any deal with the Bulls, say no to Hinrich and Nocioni, period.
by rc360 on
Dec 18, 2008 1:28 PM PST
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Totally Disagree
If the Marion deal is truly on the table, that’s the one to take because it clears K9’s salary this summer. By comparison, this deal with the Bulls would cost us about $12 million ($8+ million for K9 and about $3.5 to $4 million? for T Thomas) in cap space this summer. Is Tyrus’ potential, given his previous immaturity and attitude issues along with lack of offensive skills, worth $12 million? I doubt it.
by ttylerbballcamper on
Dec 18, 2008 1:31 PM PST
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The things people here are worried about with TT are probably what people were saying about players like...
Jermaine O’Neal, Caron Butler, etc.
Some players just take longer to develop than others. You can’t teach the athletic skills that TT has, but you can teach discipline, shot selection, etc. GM’s who don’t take risks on high upside players are the ones who never get high-upside players cheap, instead paying them when they are 28-29 at max contracts AFTER they have broken out.
Worst case with Tyrus Thomas is he doesnt progress and we trade, don’t renew him. Best case? Great player who is consistently the most athletic player on the court. Game changing blocks and steals, etc.
by Citadel 29 on
Dec 18, 2008 2:18 PM PST
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Caron Butler didn't take forever to develop
He had an up & down career in Miami, and never really fit in LA the year he was there.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
by pookeyguru on
Dec 18, 2008 2:21 PM PST
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I doubt
LA would have let him go if they had realized what a singular talent he is. They didn’t, the Wiz took a chance, and now LA has Radman, and Walton at the wing instead of Butler.
That was only 2 examples, there are probably alot more. The fact is, the Kings can afford to take a chance on a player like TT, much more valuable than someone like Marion – someone who would definately be unhappy and dog it.
by Citadel 29 on
Dec 18, 2008 5:20 PM PST
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Another thought
Since many are interested in the cap space aspect, and to do that, that means the Kings have to dump K9. Basically, either you take a shot at a young, talented, stud like player in Tyrus Thomas, or you open the cap space for a player like Paul Millsap. Either way is doable in my opinion, and if the Bulls cough up Thomas, there’s no real point in attempting to sign Millsap since that would cost more money, conceivably, than it would in keeping Thomas long term (potentially). So in a sense, cap room really isn’t all that big of a deal, and I’m less inclined to think the Kings really need it. Particularly if they have so much young talent on this group growing and prospering together. (Which hasn’t happened yet, but the thought coming into the season was that they would grow with the veterans, which hasn’t happened, so why not go the all youth route instead?)
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
by pookeyguru on
Dec 18, 2008 2:23 PM PST
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Rec'd
This is something that I’ve been thinking about, and wondered if another FanPost was in order.
Which deal would be better for the franchise (assuming both were on the table):
- Miller/K9 for Marion
- Miller for Gooden/Thomas
In one case, they have cap space to be a FA/Trade player in 2009; in the other, they simply add another solid piece to the foundation now (to go along with the 2 draft picks in 2009).
Interesting stuff.
by smgmatt on
Dec 18, 2008 2:48 PM PST
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Good question
And I’ve changed my mind smg. I really think the TT/Gooden route would be much better, and being able to swap Gooden to the Cavs, for say Eric Snow, wouldn’t be a bad thing either. Especially if the Kings get a pick for it or something along those lines.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
by pookeyguru on
Dec 18, 2008 3:01 PM PST
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There's thing to consider though
Can either trade net us a draft pick?
What do we want: lots of cap space this summer, or some space this summer with more to come next? Do we want TT, who is young with lots of potential. He could be a great piece of a 3 man backcourt rotation. Also, what FAs can we reasonably expect to get over the next two years that would be worth the cap space we do have?
Personally, I like the trade ideas involving Hughes, also. His contract is big, but if we could get him and Thomas for Miller/Moore I’d be very happy. We’d get cap space next summer plus the young big. I also really like the potential of trading one of those expirings again at a later date.
www.mancancook.net
by vfettke on
Dec 18, 2008 3:03 PM PST
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To be honest
With TT, and 2 draft picks next year, and a draft pick in 2010, how many draft picks do the Kings need? (I’m assuming something like this goes through.)
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
by pookeyguru on
Dec 18, 2008 3:14 PM PST
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So let me propose this deal
And it works on the trade machine too, but let’s say something like this: The Kings trade Mikki Moore, Brad Miller, and Kenny Thomas for Tyrus Thomas, Drew Gooden and Larry Hughes. I like that deal for alot of reason’s, and gives the Bulls just as many reasons to do it too.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
by pookeyguru on
Dec 18, 2008 3:17 PM PST
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And if the Bulls won't do it that way
I suppose the Kings could swap out Moore for Douby or something like that, and take more salary back so Chicago isn’t taking a luxury tax hit. That would be worth doing too.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
by pookeyguru on
Dec 18, 2008 3:18 PM PST
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Or as I'm playing around with it
(Douby for Moore substitution doesn’t work because the Kings would be taking about 600 K too much money back for that to work but if you included Shelden and Douby, that would definitely work. Maybe the Bulls could send back Aaron Gray in the exchange or something like that so the amount of players swapping would be okay.)
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
by pookeyguru on
Dec 18, 2008 3:21 PM PST
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In fact now I"ve replied to myself 8 billion times on this thread alone
That’s exactly how the KIngs should do it. You get rid of K9, but take back Larry Hughes. You get rid of Miller, and get back Tyrus Thomas. You get back Aaron Gray, but you lose Shelden Williams. You get rid of Drew Gooden for Quincy Douby as he’s a throw in (as is Gray). If the Bulls & Kings can’t do that type of trade, well, that’s just shit out of luck for both sides. Here’s the trade machine thingy by the way.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
by pookeyguru on
Dec 18, 2008 3:24 PM PST
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Another thing to keep in mind
Is that if you put in Moore for K9, that trade works well giving Chicago more incentive to do the deal as it saves them money for the 09 off-season.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
by pookeyguru on
Dec 18, 2008 3:36 PM PST
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Or if you wanna go super crazy
Add Bjax for Moore leaving him all together out of it. That I would be much more willing to do from the Kings perspective. (Actually I’d be willing to do all of them depending on whatever it took to get TT to the Kings.)
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
by pookeyguru on
Dec 18, 2008 3:37 PM PST
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Hey Plagerism!
That`s my trade up in the thread!
Ok last chance to get rid of K9! http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=17113207356303230005568493040&teams=232323234444&te=&cash=
C for C
G for G
2 PF`s for 2 PF`s
by hudson101 on Dec 18, 2008 12:35 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
by hudson101 on
Dec 18, 2008 3:56 PM PST
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Sorry hudson
If you had actually posted a real link ,and your actual players in text, I wouldn’t have plagiarized. (I don’t read broken links.)
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
by pookeyguru on
Dec 18, 2008 4:03 PM PST
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Link worked up in thread
And I was only poking fun.
I was playing w/ trade machine earlier also.
by hudson101 on
Dec 18, 2008 4:11 PM PST
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I wasn't being serious about it
I just don’t read broken links. And kudo’s for coming up with it, of course.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
by pookeyguru on
Dec 20, 2008 1:55 AM PST
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Good point
And certainly it’s not a bad proposal for the Kings. But from my perspective $12 million (again, if MIA-SAC rumors are true) in cap room is a lot to sacrifice for a guy with a lot of question marks. If TT were a free agent this year it doesn’t seem to me that the market for him would be nearly that high, and I don’t know that we want to give up that kind of flexibility during what could turn out to be a Sell-A-Thon in 2009. If it does turn out that way and we’re under the cap we’ll get dollars for dimes on the trade market from the LeBron et. al. bidders.
All that aside, in Petrie I trust. He’s certainly a lot better at this gig than I am. If it’s Tyrus Thomas, I’ll be cool with it. A little skeptical though.
by ttylerbballcamper on
Dec 18, 2008 2:49 PM PST
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If we got Thomas...
I’d french kiss Pookey. I may anyway.
by rbiegler on
Dec 18, 2008 2:24 PM PST
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That would be awesome
if you and Pookey were two hot chicks
www.mancancook.net
by vfettke on
Dec 18, 2008 2:47 PM PST
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Ewwwww
I’m a fat ugly white guy. Ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
by pookeyguru on
Dec 18, 2008 3:01 PM PST
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That's only eww
if Rbiegler is a guy. If he’s umm, one of the Sacramento Kings dance team, then go for it! (Hot chicks, yes. Guys, no. This is to recap for those who can’t figure it out.)
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
by pookeyguru on
Dec 18, 2008 3:02 PM PST
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Sell tickets to the event.
Help raise money for a new arena.
Coming to you live from the land of interim coaches.
by LeaguePassAddict on
Dec 18, 2008 3:52 PM PST
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TT TT TT What about Gooden?
I hear a lot of chat on hear about Tyrus Thomas but don’t forget about Gooden in this deal.
Let me say something that might SHOCK most of you: I think that at this moment, Drew Gooden is as good as LaMarcus Aldridge.
Shocking enough? Would you trade Miller for Aldridge? Let me back up my opinion with some quick stats:
In the last 5 games for each player, Aldridge is averaging 20.8 points on 19.2 shots in 42.8 minutes played per game. He has grabbed 8.8 rebounds. In the last 5 games, Drew Gooden is averaging 15.6 points on 14 shots in 33.2 minutes played per game. He has grabbed 10.8 rebounds.
Now, averaging out both players to 40 minutes looks like this:
ALDRIDGE: 19.4 ppg (17.9 shots), 8.2 rebounds, 1.7 blocks, 0.9 steals.
GOODEN: 18.8 ppg (16.9 shots), 13.0 rebounds, 0.5 blocks, 0.7 steals.
Aldridge is obviously the better prospect and going to be a better player than Gooden. In fact, due to his blocks and steals he already is, however I think that some people look past Gooden because he has yet to be on a team that utilizes his full abilities. Play him 35-40 minutes a game and get him some looks and he can put up 18 and 10 about every night. His real problem has been consistency. Something to chew on.
"Oh, boy! This website is very good. Hey, let's talk about the Raiders!" - "Peaches" Napier
by dalt99 on
Dec 18, 2008 3:53 PM PST
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Yeah
And all he is is an expiring contract to me.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
by pookeyguru on
Dec 18, 2008 3:55 PM PST
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OK
Let me ask you this. If the trade happens and at the end of the season, Gooden has averaged 18 and 10 for the Kings, would you still look at his as an expiring contract at 27 years old?
"Oh, boy! This website is very good. Hey, let's talk about the Raiders!" - "Peaches" Napier
by dalt99 on
Dec 18, 2008 4:00 PM PST
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Yeah
But I’m not high on Gooden, and really haven’t been most of his career. I know I’m not high on a lot of guys, but that being said, if Gooden puts up 18 & 10 on a team that lost nearly 40 games while he played for it, who cares?
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
by pookeyguru on
Dec 18, 2008 4:02 PM PST
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Semantics
True Pookey, I see your point and I am not really disagreeing with you. Your point about losing 40 games and going 18 and 10 is not valid though because then that would mean we should dump Hawes, Kevin Martin and Salmons too because they also lost 40 games. The only point I am making is that Gooden is better than people think he is. Would you trade Miller for Aldridge and then want to waive LaMarcus after the season if the Kings lost 40 games? Again, Gooden scores 1 point less per minute on 1 shot less and grabs 5 more boards per game. He is not a shot blocker however nor is he 23 years old.
"Oh, boy! This website is very good. Hey, let's talk about the Raiders!" - "Peaches" Napier
by dalt99 on
Dec 18, 2008 4:24 PM PST
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No he's not
I just think TT also fits in better with Shawes & JT than Gooden will too. And Shawes & JT ARE the future. And TT is 22. LOL
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
by pookeyguru on
Dec 18, 2008 4:27 PM PST
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How about
What if the only way we can get Mike Conley is to trade for Gooden too but have to promise to sign both players to the 2009 season?
"Oh, boy! This website is very good. Hey, let's talk about the Raiders!" - "Peaches" Napier
by dalt99 on
Dec 18, 2008 4:47 PM PST
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What? LOL
Dalt that made me laugh. Thanks.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
by pookeyguru on
Dec 18, 2008 4:50 PM PST
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It was meant
to make you laugh. We both get the guys we like!
"Oh, boy! This website is very good. Hey, let's talk about the Raiders!" - "Peaches" Napier
by dalt99 on
Dec 18, 2008 4:59 PM PST
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So
How would the big man rotation work w/ JT,Tyrus,Hawes Gooden,? maybe draft pick?
I think it could,just curious where everyone would fit in on depth chart?
by hudson101 on
Dec 18, 2008 4:09 PM PST
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Well
If the Kings somehow got the luckiest break ever and picked Blake Griffin in the draft, then sure, you don’t sign Gooden. If they don’t get a PF, then you could sign him. Again, I am not saying that I think he WOULD produce 18 and 10 for the Kings, but that it could happen. He is not just a journeyman big in this league which is what some people seem to think
"Oh, boy! This website is very good. Hey, let's talk about the Raiders!" - "Peaches" Napier
by dalt99 on
Dec 18, 2008 4:15 PM PST
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On the other hand Dalt
If you could swap Gooden for Snow & Cle’s 1st round pick in 2009, having Houston’s pick & Cleveland’s pick would make it easier to package that for a deal involving Mike Conley I believe.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
by pookeyguru on
Dec 18, 2008 4:11 PM PST
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So now it all comes out.
Another way to get your fav player Conley!
by hudson101 on
Dec 18, 2008 4:16 PM PST
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Oui Oui
But a course monsseiur.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
by pookeyguru on
Dec 18, 2008 4:20 PM PST
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I`m all for it!
Conley,Beno
Martin,Garcia
Salmons,Green
JT,Tyrus
Hawes,Gray
Plus 2 or 3 draft picks = next yrs. team
by hudson101 on
Dec 18, 2008 4:27 PM PST
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Well no hudson
You’d have to give up the 2 picks from Hou & Cle to get Conley. So not quite bud.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
by pookeyguru on
Dec 18, 2008 4:28 PM PST
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Do we have 1 or 2 2nd round picks?
I thought we still have a 2nd rounder coming from ATL this yr. ,could be wrong,it happens alot!
by hudson101 on
Dec 19, 2008 10:26 AM PST
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It was last year's pick
We used it on Sean Singletary.
by rc360 on
Dec 19, 2008 10:48 AM PST
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meh conley
overrated cause he played with oden. nothing he’s done in the pros has made me think otherwise. I’d rather have beno, jennings, holiday, or curry. (or rubio if he declares).
by Citadel 29 on
Dec 18, 2008 5:13 PM PST
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REc'd
why are people so high on conley…he was great when all he had to do was drive and dish to oden…what else can he do?…everyone knows he can’t shoot…that’s why he can’t play next to mayo…mayo needs the ball in his hands and conley can’t shoot…conley is the worst kind of point guard for a team that has aspirations of running the princeton offense.
by willski on
Dec 19, 2008 7:36 AM PST
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the way i see it
and I know most others do also, the key to any of the proposed trades (gooden, marion etc) is that Kenny Thomas’ contract goes away (and is never spoken of again).
i can’t see how we could be a major player in next year’s free agency with his contract on the books. my calculations give about 8 million (this is only a guess) to spend. that could net a promising player, but not a superstar. it’s also often been discussed here that free agents ain’t dreaming of Sactown!
my knowledge of contracts is limited, but i personally think the difference between the kings becoming relevant reasonably quickly could lie in not only trading for a quality player, but making sure it is one whose bird rights we own. this way, assuming the Maloofs are willing to spend a little luxury tax (they’re reluctant, I know), this player could then be re-signed for the sort of money they want. Hell, the Mavs are currently paying about 90 mil!
by thisismellow on
Dec 18, 2008 7:30 PM PST
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how does JLevein see it?
All cap questions, deals and steals are to be directed to ‘the new guy". That is why they hired him. That is also why they won’t overspend on the cap (29th league attendance is another reason, no new arena is a third and of course, the downturned/recession economy).
by betweentheeyes on
Dec 18, 2008 10:42 PM PST
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yeah
this was just wishful thinking. i just keep reading about us being big players in free agency, even next year, but i don’t see it. if we can woof off that contract though…. can we trade owners? ;)
by thisismellow on
Dec 18, 2008 10:54 PM PST
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heh, I have friends who want to trade parents
just as likely that as trade owners
by betweentheeyes on
Dec 19, 2008 12:11 AM PST
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"For salary matters, Gooden (expires '09) vs. Hughes (expires '10) really doesn't matter for Chicago."
It matters a lot.
The Bulls (despite generating the highest income in the sport…not bitter) won’t pay the luxury tax. They’re bumping up against it now, and Ben Gordon is an unrestricted Free Agent.
If they do a Gooden/Thomas for Miller deal it reduces the amount under the tax they can offer Gordon next season.
Now this is under the assumption that the Bulls are run sensibly and don’t only re-sign players who are pet favorites of the owner.
Also, Thomas should not be used as trade sweetner for just getting Brad Miller (as you pointed out, TZ). Heck, I wouldn’t even use him to get rid of a Hinrich or Nocioni contract. You want Thabo? Aaron Gray (so you don’t have to throw out Miller’s clothes)?
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on
Dec 18, 2008 8:44 PM PST
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I take this back
if the Bulls can do a Gooden/Miller swap and then deal Hinrich or Noc for expiring contracts to free up tax room.
again though, Tyrus Thomas as a throw-in makes me angry.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on
Dec 18, 2008 9:12 PM PST
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"Throw in" is very bad verbiage
The whole reason the Kings make the deal is for T2. Why deal Miller for garbage? Even for expiring garbage? Maybe the Kings can’t get youth or a pick for Miller right now. If that’s the case, keep him.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
by section214 on
Dec 18, 2008 9:17 PM PST
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Agreed
Also – With BMiller gone you have SHawes as center. Who is the back up? Hawes is 20, he can not be expected to play 82 games 34 minutes per night. When he grows into his NBA body, sure thing. But not now, he is an injury waiting to happen (I know I jinxed, but had to be said).
by betweentheeyes on
Dec 18, 2008 10:48 PM PST
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fine, you twisted my arm
Aaron Gray is yours!
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on
Dec 19, 2008 9:15 AM PST
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Gooden isn't garbage
He’s no long-term solution, but he can play. Just, um, not defense. He’s a fine 3rd big man with Hawes/Thompson, and you don’t have to pay him $10m next year.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on
Dec 19, 2008 9:14 AM PST
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If it's just Gooden
then the Kings can likely get a better deal for Miller elsewhere. It’s Tyrus that we’re after.
But I’m glad you chimed in here, however, as the original proposal of Gooden/Tyrus seems unlikely favorable towards the Kings. Would a Hughes/Thomas for Miller/Douby deal of some sorts be more amenable to the Bulls?
by LPKingsFan on
Dec 19, 2008 12:26 PM PST
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it's better
but I still would hate to trade Tyrus unless it was for a long-term upgrade.
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by your friendly BullsBlogger on
Dec 19, 2008 1:14 PM PST
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There's nothing the Kings have
That you’re going to want long term. The only real thing that the Kings could possibly want from the Bulls is TT. Kinda of a total catch 22 all the way around there Matt.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
by pookeyguru on
Dec 19, 2008 1:25 PM PST
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Found this one...
on Blog A Bull. A 3-way trade that involves Brad, Beno and the Clippers. No.
by rc360 on
Dec 19, 2008 8:46 AM PST
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Blech
That’s horrible for the Kings.
Shut up and Coach
by Carl on
Dec 19, 2008 4:59 PM PST
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Anything that involves Hinrich
Is horrible for the Kings.
Shut up and Coach
by Carl on
Dec 19, 2008 4:59 PM PST
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Brad Miller Trade
I hate to see Brad go but if the kings are ever going to rebuild then they will have to start playing their young players. So far Petrie, Maloof’s and the coach haven’t gotten the answer to a question everyone else can see they have to make trades and they have to play their young players more. They are playing their older players and are still losing almost every game and will continue doing the same. Brad to the Bulls for Noah and other players to equal the value like Thomas and Gooden would be a trade that would help the Bulls and in the long run help the Kings . Nothing will save this season for the Kings and all of the fans are aware of it and wish the management would get it and start playing for next year . If they don’t we will be at the bottom next year , 26th position is bad enough and please don’t trade Thompson or Donte Green We lost Gerald Wallace to the expansion draft because someone didn’t see his talent and look at him now.
by TOCAN on
Dec 20, 2008 8:54 PM PST
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To be fair...
I don’t think that the Kings:
…lost Gerald Wallace to the expansion draft because someone didn’t see his talent…
The Kings protected the core of their team that they felt they needed to make a Championship run. There are a lot of arguments that could be made regarding their decision, but I don’t think it can be fairly said that the organization didn’t “see his talent”.
by smgmatt on
Dec 21, 2008 10:29 AM PST
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It might have been a difficult PR move
But they could have easily left Webb un protected if they so chose. It might have upset Webb, but if they wanted to keep Gerald, they could have.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
by pookeyguru on
Dec 21, 2008 12:52 PM PST
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Agreed
In my opinion, this was the most likely scenario to keep the core and retain Wallace (due to Webber’s huge contract) . . . but like I said, they protected the core to make a Championship run. Had it resulted in a Championship, losing Wallace wouldn’t have mattered.
by smgmatt on
Dec 21, 2008 7:28 PM PST
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