Creating a Beast
by Tom Ziller on Dec 20, 2008 6:53 AM PST
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PrintResults are bourgeois. Let's listen to Kenny Natt talk about why Spencer Hawes spent the whole game in the post, in the shadow of Yao Ming:
"I'm working to try and put him in positions where he can get better looks. The only way he's going to get better is to put him inside in the post, and let him work against guys and let him get a strong feel of really being contested. The Rockets really contested him, and this was a struggle for him tonight … . "
This is player development. Winning is the goal -- of course it is. And the Kings hung tough until about 90 seconds remained. In the process, Donté Greene learned all about Ron Artest, Bobby Brown got some crunch time action, and Hawes faced adversity in the post.
Hawes won't learn to be a great post player in practice alone, or just by watching Hakeem Olajuwon clips on YouTube. He needs these real experiences against taller opponents. Of course, there's only one Yao. But fighting the giant will make fighting Greg Oden, Andrew Bynum and Andris Biedrins for the next decade a bit easier. Trial by fire or snowstorm or both.
Brad Miller, when he's active, looks like Vlade. Just feisty, stabby, crafty as all heck. Those -- and an incredible basketball brain -- are the attributes that kept Divac valuable into his mid-30s. I have no false expectations we'll see this level of activity from Miller on a nightly basis (hence the trade talk) but it is invaluable while he's here.
Other thoughts:
* Someone teach Jason Thompson how to avoid travel calls. Almost half of his turnovers are "ball-handling" errors -- turnovers, the rare double-dribble (he hasn't had one), strips. Kill the traveling calls and his turnover rate will look much better.
* Someone teach Kayte Christensen about plus-minus or tell her to never talk about it again.
* Mikki Moore: 20 minutes, 2 points, 0 rebounds. AAH! There was one particularly atrocious Luis Scola offensive board. It came off a missed Rockets three. Thompson boxed out his dude (Landry or Hayes) beautifully. Moore just need to turn around and grab the ball. He turned ... and didn't make a move. His man (Scola) swept in for the rebound and the score. BRUTAL. Nevertheless, Moore is still the best big man defender getting playing time. I understand what he brings to the table, and that his veteran leadership is valuable and unlikely to continue at a high level if you bench him outright, and that his trade value needs to be maintained. But Shelden Williams seems like a much better option as fourth big man right now.
* Anyone else pining to see what Bobby Brown could do as a starter, just for one or two games? I might get that request tonight, as Beno Udrih strained his hamstring in the second half. Amick notes Beno has scored 10 points combined in the last three games. AAH!
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I think Natt's on the right track
This season is beginning to look unsalvageable. Throw all the kids into the fire.
I am not sure if letting Hawes getting owned by elite centers
is the right way to develop him.
What if Spence had pulled Yao out with mid range shooting? He could either score or open space for penetrations.
Here's an idea
We can just let him step out and take some jumpers or play near the perimeter for some threes. Tha way his underutilized post game can never be used whatsoever. He needs to learn to mix it up inside with the best centers in the league. One of the best ways to do this is to make him mix it up inside with the best centers in the league. It’s not like he gets the chance to do that during practice against any of our elite big men. Let him go and make mistakes in the post and start learning from them.
Spencer already has the Miller-esque high post game going pretty well, his defense/rebounding is much better than any of us had hoped for, and now he just needs to develop the post game. Imagine the force he’ll be when he combines those three and can play inside and outside as well as defend fairly well.
www.mancancook.net
by vfettke on Dec 20, 2008 12:03 PM PST up reply actions 4 recs
Well said
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
I also think
that Spencer is smart, proud and a fighter…meaning that adversity won’t daunt him, it will challenge him, and he’ll be better for it. Kenny Natt is making the right moves.
Life is every mammal's journey from very very wet to very very dry.
I agree
There’s a mental toughness to him that’s necessary for a young player like him to succeed in the NBA.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
Heh
The Kings halftime show is a joke. Koz is so smarmy and overly personable, Kayte the exact opposite, seems uncomfortable. And the QVC shopping of Kings gear is lame.
Get usec to it
The Maloof’s are trying to dredge up revenue any way they can.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
Revenue ideas
Coach For A Night – Hell, we’re almost there already. Some lucky Kings fan wins the right to coach the old home team. If When the Kings fall behind by more than 20 points, that fan is replaced by an interim fan that will finish out the game. They then have the option of holding a colorful press conference or driving under the influence.
Raffle – Scale Kayte Christensen – Pretty self explanatory. Runner up gets to bitch slap Grant Napear.
Guest Appearance On “The Donté Greene Show” – Includes lunch at Jack In The Box (thundersticks included, but no super sizing) and a $5 off coupon to the Kings Store.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
by section214 on Dec 20, 2008 12:32 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
LOL Classic!
Raffle – Scale Kayte Christensen – Pretty self explanatory. Runner up gets to bitch slap Grant Napear.
I’m not sure what’s better. Scaling a smart broad who doesn’t know plus/minus, or bitch slapping Peachosaurus Rex. Hmmmm. Tough call.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
Very tough call
I think those could be two separate contests
Or maybe a Peaches dunk tank… over whatever body of water there is in Sacramento… in a couple weeks from now… with sharks… with frickin laser beams attached to their heads
www.mancancook.net
Body of water?
Does a Lake count?
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
Please
That’s easy. You scale the smart broad, son.
Peaches wakes up in the morning and he’s still Peaches. That is punishment in and of itself…bitchslapping him is just piling on.
Are we gonna live together? Together are we gonna live?
by otis29 on Dec 22, 2008 8:32 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Good Point
You are correcct, and I am ashamed to say, you are correct. What was I thinking?
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
Hard to explain
She said she doesn’t understand how it’s calculated. The guy explained. (He absolutely abuses it, of course.) She said it doesn’t capture all the little things in basketball, and gave this example: imagine you get a steal or a rebound and give a good outlet, but your teammate misses a layup. The other team scores. Then you get penalized in plus-minus even though it’s not your fault! I almost threw up.
Of course, Koz (the guy) had been questioning whether Salmons had a bad game despite his scoring and solid defense, because he was a -9. Koz failed to note that just about every player’s plus-minus aligned with Yao’s minutes. Rox who played with Yao had a high plus-minus, Kings who played against him had low ones. Salmons spent most of his minutes sharing the court with Yao.
If nothing else
It’s part proof that watching the game still means something doesn’t it?
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
by pookeyguru on Dec 20, 2008 1:14 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I don't really like +/- either
There’s just too many variables that it doesn’t capture.
Eh
It’s valuable, but just like anything else it needs context. I’m hopeful about adjusted +/-, even if it tells me Martin is no good.
JT will adjust...
Thompson just needs to settle down and play more. His issues with getting the ball swiped have to do with him holding the ball too low which SAR should be able to fix quickly. Get your elbows up JT, if someone wants to reach in then show them the pointy side of your elbow.
Mikki Moore- played nice D but after the third or fourth offensive rebound he just couldn’t keep position. Maybe you should try to grab a board so you aren’t always on defense Mikki. Maybe you should grab the ball instead of just slapping at it. Maybe you should wear reciever gloves with stick em’. This guy kills me. Screw trade value, let JT have his minutes, sprinkle in a little Sheldon and maybe some Donté but no more Mikki, please.
Spencer- 7’-6" in your face? Kick out? Jump hook? Pump fake? Up and under? How about dragging the dude away from the hoop and burrying the jumper. Yao is undefendable but to get swatted repeatedly showed a pretty slow learning curve.
Hot dogs, get your hot dogs.
I thought this was an interesting note by Amick
When he was there, he was always working hard," he continued. “When Reggie Miller left (Indiana when Artest played there), nobody really did the things that Reggie Miller did. I see a lot of Reggie Miller (in Martin). He’s actually better than Reggie Miller, but the only thing Reggie had on him was he was a better team defender than Kevin.” – Sam Amick
I realize you’ve had posts in the past comparing Martinf favorably to Reggie Miller TZ, but that was interesting that Artest came out directly and said it. Miller is still probably the most popular player to ever suit up in Indiana, and lord knows how popular he could have been if they had won a title. Still, I think it proves, that A) Artest isn’t crazy, and no matter how much this team’s suffering today, B) it still proves that this team needed to move on from Artest.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
Not for nothing
Larry Bird is the most popular player to ever suit up in Indiana, and he didn’t even play professionally there. I only point this out because I made pretty much the exact same comment last week to a guy I know from Indiana, and he not only corrected me, but thought I was crazy.
If you were simply talking about the “Pacers” then disregard this comment altogether, I just found the timing interesting.
Yeah it was Pacers intended
But I’m not sure it’s that big of a deal. Clearly the most popular player out of Indiana is Larry Bird, but I wonder how Indianan’s feel about Larry vs the Big O. That would be a great debate.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
Spencer Hawes, RIP
I have come to the sad but probably true conclusion that Spencer Hawes isn’t going to amount to much in this league.
I’m just surprised it took me so long.
It must have been the lovefest here for this mascot of a player that blinded me.
Please tell me what I am missing.
by coolcatreportdotcom on Dec 21, 2008 10:59 PM PST reply actions
Seriously?
I hope I’m missing your sarcasm here because I don’t see it. You are down on the guy because he’s had a couple OK games (not bad games, but only OK). Remember he’s only 20 and is light years from where he was last year. Remember all the crap we gave him after that first game against Oden where he got killed? The guy came back and shut us all up by being the most consistent King at the beginning of the season after that.
Hawes needs more experience in the post against great competition night in and out in this league. He’s gonna striuggle at first but he will figure it out if he’s gonna make in this league. He has proven us wrong before so be careful when you go against him. The coaching staff is putting him in a position where he’s gonna learn and I applaud that.
One great thing I read the other day (in the Bee I think) in a interview with him was how he was saying that even when his shot is not falling he’s trying to impact the game in other aspects such as rebounding and blocks. He’s still young but he seems to get it. Be patient and you’ll be surprised. Again, hope I missed your sarcasm and if that was the case I just wanted some of my time to eply butI think it’s worth it.
I doubt it
I’m pretty sure CC is about to go on a rampage how the Kings can’t bank on Shawes for anything valuable in the future.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
CRAZY cc
The kid is only 20. He’ll get better, he’ll get bigger. He can already shoot – though i don’t think the coaches are using him correctly offensively right now.
He’s a shooter, set up some plays for him to shoot.
"You keep on using that word
I do not think it mean what you think it means"
by lietothegirls on Dec 21, 2008 11:35 PM PST up reply actions
Don't forget he has post moves too
He just needs to keep developing them. Maybe develop a trademark move in the post. I agree that the coaching staff needs to put him in situations where he can improve his game. Kenny seems to be doing that
obvious trolling
isn’t fun.
The more you guys work the trade machine, the happier I am GP is our GM.
He's not trolling
He really is just that dumb.
Are we gonna live together? Together are we gonna live?
Welcome to CC's world For Three
And apparently the good times weren’t meant to last.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
How old is
Brook Lopez?
Who would you rather have?
by coolcatreportdotcom on Dec 22, 2008 12:00 PM PST up reply actions
Throwing raw meat to trolls
How is that question relevant? Brook Lopez was off the board before Sacramento drafted. If we’re playing that game, sure I’d rather have Greg Oden than Spencer Hawes.
I’ve only seen Brook Lopez much against us, and he was really good, but for anyone to say Hawes or JT haven’t exceeded expectations to date, just shows how delusional someone’s expectations can be.
The more you guys work the trade machine, the happier I am GP is our GM.
They were both No. 10s
That’s why it is relevant.
by coolcatreportdotcom on Dec 22, 2008 5:38 PM PST up reply actions
Dangerous times
I guess it’s not a good idea to criticize Kings players. They are all great. I will remember to genuflect at the altar of Spancer Hawes in the future.
by coolcatreportdotcom on Dec 22, 2008 5:40 PM PST reply actions
Hawes
+7 pts., +4 reb., +1 blk., +1 ast. over last year, with an improved FT%. At age 20, that is what I like about Spencer Hawes. He has exceeded my expectations. He is more productive than Brandan Wright and Joakim Noah, the two guys taken before him in the draft, and two guys that I was hoping we would get instead of Hawes.
What he may yet become we do not know, but he if among the fairer value Kings on the payroll today.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
The comparison to Brandan Wright is probably unfair
Spencer is averaging 29 minutes a game vs. Wright’s 16. Let’s look at rough numbers for both players for both years (minutes, points, rebounds):
Spencer:
Last year: 13-5-3.
This year: 29-12-7.
Wright:
Last year: 10-4-3.
This year: 16-8-4.
Looks like on a per minute basis, Wright is actually slightly outperforming Spencer.
And as we know, Nellie doesn’t exactly have a rep for developing younger players.
Based on that, would you still take Spencer over Wright?
by coolcatreportdotcom on Dec 22, 2008 8:07 PM PST up reply actions
Way different offenses
Dude, you’re reaching. A young players numbers should be better in a Don Nelson offense.
It’s one thing to use statistics to back up your opinion from time to time, but you pretty much let the numbers do all the talking.
Maybe that’s why I have a tough time taking you seriously.
Are we gonna live together? Together are we gonna live?
I just answered
out of context stats with more in-context stats. Not a surprise which post you criticized.
by coolcatreportdotcom on Dec 22, 2008 9:06 PM PST up reply actions
You are not criticizing
You are just talking shit. That’s what irritates some people. I actually thought you were contributing some nice comments after you let the Artest thing go. You didn’t even give good reason to your ideas, how weak is that?
I guess the real question is
What is his upside? What kind of player will he turn into? Is he another Dirk in the making or just a taller Mike Dunleavy?
Beyond that, what kind of player will he be, a dominant (or at least competitive) post player, a high post performer a la Miller or an outside shooting forward, or something in-between? I think those are things he has to figure out and the team has to figure out.
Bottom line: is he untouchable? What would it take to pry the magnificent Spencer from the Kings, and is anyone even trying?
I am kind of surprised by the response. You would have thought I had brutally attacked a second-year All-Star, not a guy averaging a little better than 11 points in almost 30 minutes of burn a night.
Damn. I guess it doesn’t take much to get you guys excited. I can only imagine how you will react if we ever get a draft pick who is the real real thing, not just a homegrown love-him-warts-and-all favorite.
by coolcatreportdotcom on Dec 22, 2008 8:18 PM PST reply actions
Two things
One, people disagree with you – that’s not a crime.
Two, you’re a douche – that’s why people heckle you.
Are we gonna live together? Together are we gonna live?
I think you got it backwards
When I agree with you, I’m a great guy. When I don’t, I’m a “douche.”
Nothing on these boards is a “crime,” but some of you guys are a bunch of pathetic lightweights.
If you disagree with what I say, just tell me why without acting like a maggot.
If you think Spencer is the second coming, just spell it out for me or shut the f*ck up.
by coolcatreportdotcom on Dec 22, 2008 9:04 PM PST up reply actions
Hawes
Has shown improvement in his 2nd year, at the age of 20. Greater imporovement than Noah. Greater improvement than Wright. Statistically he matches up with Oden right now – Oden has less experience but a better supporting cast.
I’m not calling him the 2nd coming, but I am pleased with his progress. I have seen nothing in his game to cause me to write him off. I have seen nothing yet to indicate that he will be an all star in the next couple of years, either. But he looks like he could be (at the very least) a nice piece for a team on the build.
And I would expect Wright’s per minute production to out pace Hawes based on the up tempo game of the Warriors.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
That's fine
I’ve at least moved you from "Hawes is more productive than Brandan Wright" to "I would expect Wright’s per minute production to outpace Hawes based on the uptempo game of the Warriors."
by coolcatreportdotcom on Dec 22, 2008 10:55 PM PST up reply actions
Oh, sorry
I’m just trying to communicate with you in your preferred manner.
If you want tangible conversation around here, you might want to start over with a new screen name.
And when have I ever considered you a “great guy”? I think I complimented you once for writing a fanpost without cheapshotting some one. These two things are not the same.
Are we gonna live together? Together are we gonna live?
Typical Otis
You have fun with that. I’ll talk basketball, you can talk personalities. Feel free to “douche” me all you want.
by coolcatreportdotcom on Dec 23, 2008 7:15 AM PST up reply actions
See, that's where you lose us
some of you guys are a bunch of pathetic lightweights
You don’t want to discuss. You want to educate us. You don’t want to be peers. You want to condescend to us by deigning to impart your oh-so-superior basketball knowledge to the masses, expecting us to bow to your vast wisdom.
I can’t recall anybody saying that Hawes is the second coming, or even that he’s going to be a top twenty player in the league. But for a number ten pick and a young kid he’s shown quite a bit of promise, and people are somewhat optimistic, enthusiastic even.
And I can’t imagine what kind of lofty standards you have when you state in your FanPost that you consider Chris Paul to be a Gold/Silver. He’s gold. Solid. 24 Karat.
The rest of us are playing the cards we’ve been dealt as fans. It doesn’t do anybody any good to out-and-out trash every player on the roster. Can they improve? Of course. Would we all like to have stars on our roster? To quote the inimitible Bobby Jackson, Most Definitely.
But despite our problems, there are a few bright spots here and there, with players showing promise, and possible trade scenarios and future cap space.
So be more cool than cat, and stop calling people out. Try to see the glass as half full instead of half empty with the milk already curdled. We all agree that the Kings suck this year. And it bugs us. But we watch anyway, and look for signs that things will be better in the future.
That doesn’t make us lightweights. It makes us fans.
Coming to you live from the land of interim coaches.
by LeaguePassAddict on Dec 23, 2008 6:48 PM PST up reply actions 3 recs
Claps in appreciation, and in agreement
I wish I could say something better than that, but I know I can’t.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
Also LPA
Rant was talking to Michael Kay, the play by play guy on TV for the Yankees, and he pointed out that one reason he wasn’t excited by the 425 mil spent on FA’s by the Yanks was in part becuz he does PBP for our beloved dipshits. He said it was taking some of the excitement out of the Yanks spending spree. I thought it was pretty funny he said that, but then again, I think he was pretty much echoing a lot of sentiments for many right now. Watching this team is tough, because they just haven’t looked very good for very often. That doesn’t mean blowing this all up makes a lot of sense. This team has quality young players, and veteran players it needs to move in the interim. People need to realize this is a work in progress, and while I know you do, a lot of people’s tones here have smacked of noisy desperation to see the team regain it’s winning ways. It’s just not that simple, and at some point, living with the losing is just part of the deal. The next time this wins 10 games in a row, don’t take it for granted. It’s a great thing for a team to do that, and at some point, maybe criticism for this team might be able to change. (Wait a minute, that won’t ever change. What am I thinking?)
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
I think you have it wrong
I just try to be honest and get to the point and push the dialogue along, and I don’t really care if the Otisses of the world get tweaked.
I don’t think my opinions are superior; they are just part of the mix. I am happy to engage in spirited discussion and have disagreements emerge. I am often wrong and am happy to be proven wrong, but calling me a “douche” does not accomplish that.
Any personal retorts I offer are usually pretty mild in comparison to what drew them.
If you read the post, you’d find that I wasn’t making any comments about Paul’s abilities; I was merely passing on the words of an author, whose conclusions are drawn from a numbers-based formula that even he acknowledges isn’t perfect.
As far as Kings players, I think everybody here has spoken on the pros and cons of just about every player. Sometimes there seems to be a touch of homerism, but that’s understandable. These are our guys, and we want them to be larger than life and maybe better than they are.
But, hey, if I happen to find fault with a player, tell me why I am wrong instead of taking it into the gutter. And if you feel the need to lecture me, maybe you could also do it for some of your board pals when they cross the line.
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on Dec 24, 2008 7:06 AM PST up reply actions
Please
Your personal retorts are mild? I cut the crap and tell you what I think. You dress up your insults as “I’m looking down my nose at the lesser people”.
Feel free to research the nasty board disagreements here over time and you might see a common denominator. Actually, you will find most of them if you just click on your profile name at the top of the screen.
Maybe you’re sick of me, and that’s fine. But as long as you are here, and with a username that directs people to a site intended to put money in your pocket, you better get used to me riding your jock.
Are we gonna live together? Together are we gonna live?
Username
I use that username at other places. I doubt anybody here is a subscriber, so I think that is a pretty lame point. You’d still call me a “douche” if I was posting under a another name because that’s how you roll. But you know who I am: I don’t hide as “Thurman Munson’s Ghost” or other such drivel.
As for the disagreements, it pretty much goes like this: I say what I think, and morons like you who disagree with some of my points don’t always respond to what I write. Instead, you go personal.
Ride me all you want, Jocko, if that’s how you get your jollies. It takes all kinds.
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on Dec 24, 2008 8:11 AM PST up reply actions
Out of curiosity
You think he’s hiding under Thurman Munson’s Ghost? It’s pretty obvious that’s the name he posts under his own blog. I don’t quite get that.
And cc, you start a ton of crap here in how you choose to conversate. While it takes one to know one, you are quite versed in switching the bait on the topic whenever it suits you. It’s not the disagreements people are having issue with; it’s how you go about the conversation that’s irksome. And you know it, and yet, you don’t seem to care. So, you get what you get.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
Glad to see you are above such things
and morons like you who disagree with some of my points don’t always respond to what I write. Instead, you go personal.
You just owned yourself in one sentence. Good job Sparky.
Are we gonna live together? Together are we gonna live?
Makes me nostalgic for our Adelman vs Musselman debate Otis
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
What's Spencer's upside?
Your posts would be much more interesting and fun if you’d started here, rather than “Spencer Hawes isn’t going to amount to much in this league”. Your conclusion (with no stated basis for it) seems so outlandish, its hard to take you seriously.
So who does Spencer remind me of? what’s his upside? On the max out best case scenario, offensively maybe Rasheed Wallace? Spencer can shoot, and his back to the basket game is different than Rasheed but in two years I think those jump hooks and drop steps that rattle out today mostly are going to go in. Also, I don’t think Spencer will ever get the 2-3 FGs a night Rasheed gets on offensive rebounds because he isn’t the athlete Rasheed is. I was originally going to say Vlade here, but I think Spencer is more assertive than Vlade tended to be, and Hawes makes good passes at times, but he isn’t the gifted passer Vlade was. So on offense somewhere between Vlade and Rasheed minus Vlade’s truly special passing seem fair?
For defense, again, Spencer is hard to categorize. I was thinking maybe 8-9 rebounds, 1.5 blocks or so…Elden Campbell? Spencer seems like he’s going to be bigger than Elden but not quite the shot blocker? Spencer is bigger than most of the guys you’d want to lump him in with, but isn’t close to as dominant as the special big guys.
I could see Spencer as: 16ppg, 8.5rpg, 1.5blks on a good FG%, and not embarrassing himself guarding other centers in the league; that’s the upside.
The more you guys work the trade machine, the happier I am GP is our GM.
by ForThree on Dec 23, 2008 7:43 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
And that is one hell of a player
Whether you like him or not.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
Kevin McHale
with an outside jumpshot?
by coolcatreportdotcom on Dec 23, 2008 7:57 AM PST up reply actions
if you say McHale + a jumpshot you have to add – an absolutely dominant post-up game. If Spencer becomes Kevin McHale on offense…that would significantly exceed my expectations.
The more you guys work the trade machine, the happier I am GP is our GM.
by ForThree on Dec 23, 2008 8:00 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Well said
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
Also, I feel like I’m being baited here, McHale was on the 50 greatest players of all time list wasn’t he? You can argue whether or not he deserved to be, but even contemplating Spencer is that good seems a little silly.
There’s a lot of room between “Kevin McHale + a jumpshot” and “isn’t going to amount to much”. I think I can confidently assume Spencer will fall pretty easily between those two ends of the spectrum.
The more you guys work the trade machine, the happier I am GP is our GM.
You are being baited
You just have proved your point far better than CC can.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
That's fine
I’ve at least moved you from “Hawes is more productive than Brandan Wright” to “I would expect Wright’s per minute production to outpace Hawes based on the uptempo game of the Warriors.”
by coolcatreportdotcom on Dec 22, 2008 10:55 PM PST reply actions
One statement does not obsolete the other
Because they are just my opinions. You don’t have to agree with them, you don’t have to respect them. But they’re mine, and I stand behind both statements.
If the Kings traded Hawes for Wright tomorrow, I would welcome Wright and hope that he helps to revitalize the Kings. If Hawes stays in a Kings uniform, I hope that he helps to revitalize the Kings. Both of these guys could be solid pros or better, both could wash out.
I like Hawes. He is progressing. After John Salmons, he has probably had the best season so far of any of the Kings, especially for the money. And he’s 20. He’ll be able to legally drink to his season two weeks after it ends. I’ll probably drink to it earlier than that.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
Or he could go back home
And get a 30 pack of Bud for 30 bux.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
"Especially for the money"
I know we have a cheap, penny-pinching outfit here that is almost forced to wait out the effects of so many bad money decisions that it’s nice to have a decent contributor in his second year pulling down just $2 mil a year more or less.
But this all reminds me of a city council candidate I once served on a board with. She was a well-meaning woman, but I thought she ran a rather weak campaign when she could have been a fairly strong contender. She ended up something like fourth out of six or seven candidates.
When I asked her how much her campaign had raised, she proudly told me she had gotten the most votes per dollar.
Not that the Kings are even close to getting the most wins per dollar, but at some point I hope our goal is to win a championship, not finish fourth or fifth in the conference with a hollow moral victory because we spent less.
by coolcatreportdotcom on Dec 23, 2008 7:11 AM PST up reply actions
Return on investment
Hawes right now is providing a good return on investment. That cannot be said of most of the Kings on the roster right now, except for John Salmons.
And how is a team within an eyelash of the luxury tax a “cheap, penny-pinching outfit?” They’re probably paying more per win than nearly everyone in the NBA right now. That makes them ineffective, not penny-pinchers.
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The most intriguing part of the penny pincher angle is
That much of the financial flirting with luxury tax was due to winning despite the other bad contracts left over from the “bad years”. So, in fact, this team actually stunted it’s rebuilding by trying to win in the interim, as opposed to saving money (which I think the franchise should do) and spending it wisely on your young talent over time. Cuz frankly, this team signing Mikki Moore hurt it’s financial bottom line more than having traded for Kenny Thomas.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
Can you imagine what would happen
If they had a $24-million-a-year player who played like it instead of Salmons, Garcia, Beno and Mikki. Instead, like Pookey says, they tried to compete on the cheap.
by coolcatreportdotcom on Dec 23, 2008 11:55 AM PST up reply actions
Which $24-million a year players have we had access to? Which guy in the last 5 years was available that would have come here?
You need to deal in the realm of the possible, sure it would be easier if Lebron had come here, that wasn’t an option.
The more you guys work the trade machine, the happier I am GP is our GM.
OK, maybe a couple of $12-million players?
That weren’t named Brad Miller?
by coolcatreportdotcom on Dec 23, 2008 12:39 PM PST up reply actions
You have a tough time making the case the Kings are cheap when they are right at the luxury cap threshold every year.
You can make the case we’ve spent our money badly at times or reasonable gambles didn’t go our way, but we haven’t been cheap in my opinion.
The more you guys work the trade machine, the happier I am GP is our GM.
What For Three said
And, stop misquoting me CC. That’s not what I said. Nor what I was intending to say. You really need to stop it, but knowing you, you’re not gonna. Good luck in your future arguments. It’s ignore time again.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
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