Hoopsworld: Miller to Cleveland?
"The scenario that seems most appealing to the Kings would be swapping Brad Miller and Kenny Thomas to the Cavaliers for the ending contract of Wally Szczerbiak and impressive rookie J.J. Hickson."
This seems like it could be even better than the Marion deal, as K9 leaves and another young big (6'9" 242) comes back as well. Thoughts?
11 months ago
smgmatt
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The Kings are also open to moving John Salmons, who may be the more impressive chip the Kings have to cash.
The Warriors are rumored to be shopping rookie Anthony Randolph and second year player Brendan Wright; both players are firmly in Don Nelson’s doghouse.
The Raptors might be best suited offering up a Bargnani package and a first round draft pick to the Sacramento Kings for John Salmons. The Kings’ swingman might be exactly what the Raptors are missing.
by smgmatt on Dec 22, 2008 8:27 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
I think
You absolutely deal Salmons now, when his trade value is highest. He still feels a bit like Fool’s Gold to me.
And can someone point out to me a time that Nelson has actually developed young talent…do we have to go back to the Bucks in the ’70’s? Has there ever been a player with three or less years of experience that wasn’t in his dog house?
Are we gonna live together? Together are we gonna live?
by otis29 on Dec 22, 2008 8:35 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Value
You absolutely have to question the Toronto rumor (for obvious reasons), but it does bring up the discussion of whether Salmons is worth more in trade than if he simply stays on the Kings’ roster.
Buying low is important for building a team, but so is selling high. If Salmons continues to put up these kind of numbers, he’s going to opt out after next season and look for a raise, at which point is he still worth retaining? Most of his value right now is in his salary, so if he’s making more, is he less valuable?
I don’t know if Bargnani is the answer in Sac (how tall is he, btw, I saw him listed between 6’10" and 7’0"), but if those are the types of deals out there for Salmons, then Petrie has to look at them.
by smgmatt on Dec 22, 2008 8:50 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Saw Bargnani once
Saw him at a game in Denver. I was really impressed with how well he moved, and he showed some aggressiveness around the hoop that I hadn’t anticipated. A bit young, a bit raw, and I’m not sure how high his ceiling is.
I’d trade Salmons for him, but I actually see a few too many similarities between him and JT.
Never forget: I am a complete idiot
by Exhibit G on Dec 22, 2008 2:52 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
John Salmons:
The guy’s a black hole. He doesn’t facilitate the ball movement that made the early 2000’s so fun to watch and that team so good. Sure, he’s been playing mostly great defense and scoring plenty of points, but so does Allen Iverson, another guy I wouldn’t want on my team. When Iverson was traded to the Pistons, George Karl said something along the lines that the Nuggets have had about 4 or 5 fewer wasted possessions since he had been gone.
People talk about players who can be effective without the ball (por ejemplo, Kevin Martin). Salmons is only effective when holding the ball and creating his own shot. I’d definitely be open to trading him for someone who can work within the team offense.
by cbsf on Dec 22, 2008 4:23 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
When the “team offense” consists of veterans with no hope of creating a shot and rookies that only have the vaguest idea what they are doing, you have to take matters into your own hands.
Salmons is shooting 50% from the field, and doing so most of the time with no other legitimate scoring threat on the floor. Give the guy a break.
Also, I’ve yet to see Kevin Martin score a point without the ball.
The more you guys work the trade machine, the happier I am GP is our GM.
by ForThree on Dec 22, 2008 4:48 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Its not that Salmons needs to create his own shot to be effective
Its that too many on the roster have that same tendancy. Defenders know they probably won’t just jack up a shot and that dribble or five give them a chance to alter the delivery., close in, adjust.
Salmons is just fine, great numbers, really working on taking fewer dribbles (though still too many sometimes)
Its a lack of variety on the team as a whole
"You keep on using that word
I do not think it mean what you think it means"
by lietothegirls on Dec 22, 2008 5:07 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
His fg% is great, I can’t argue with that, but I think the team as a whole would be better served by a different type of offensive player.
by cbsf on Dec 22, 2008 8:17 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
sure
Chris Paul would make the team better than John Salmons. But I don’t know who you’re going to get at $6 million a year.
Though that is a misinterpretation of what you’re saying. What you’re really saying is:
John Salmons isn’t the problem. John Salmons in this system, with these players, is the problem.
But I don’t agree with that either.
Donte? Donte'! Donté?!?!
'spect da 'xtra E'
by iashwash on Dec 23, 2008 9:02 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Interesting
I see absolutely no substance in any of these hoopsworld rumors. They stated there was a standing offer from Miami for Miller and Thomas obviously were complete bogus.
The Raptors are NOT trading Bargnani AND a 1st round pick for John Salmons and the Kings see Salmons a part of their future core.
Let’s not get overhyped about Hoopsworld. Steve Kyler, Bill Ingram and company love to make stupid rumors up and and you also take them with a truck-load of salt.
BOOK IT!
by kingme18 on Dec 22, 2008 9:53 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed 100% regarding Hoopsworld's rumor mill -
Agreed 5% regarding Salmons being part of the Kings future core.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
by section214 on Dec 22, 2008 9:55 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Salmons
Maybe Salmons was signed because they needed a Bonzi Wells replacement and the Kings felt they could still contend. Johnny’s been the MVP of the Kings this year no ifs, buts and or’s.
I think you could see a Salmons trade if he can’t complement well with Kevin. Johnny’s a multi-dimensional talent but his contract is butt ugly.
BOOK IT!
by kingme18 on Dec 22, 2008 10:02 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
His contract is Ugly?!!
What do you mean?
Most teams would kill to get a guy with his starters numbers for $5mil a year.
"You keep on using that word
I do not think it mean what you think it means"
by lietothegirls on Dec 22, 2008 10:10 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
My thoughts exactly
Salmons contract is a freakin’ bargain.
by Kusian on Dec 22, 2008 10:33 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
That's why
you package him with K-9 and get more pieces back. K-9’s contract could actually help us in this situation. If someone really wants Salmons and how good his playing right now, they’ll have to take on K-9
by eduardo_m7 on Dec 22, 2008 11:37 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Seriously
As much as I want to see Salmons on another team he a steal at 5 Mill a year. Everyone in the NBA is overpaid and Johnny’s contract is a steal currently.
I really want him to go to Toronto so he can play with some better players around him. He is monumentally better than Jamario Moon. He could save the raptors season if the trade is done soon.
Ideal trade scenario for the Kings:
B.mill for G.Wall
Salmons for Bargnani and a pick
by Doubl3Dos3 on Dec 22, 2008 10:44 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
To be fair...
I prefaced the link (Hoopsworld), and questioned the validity above.
That said, it’s no different than anyone here coming up with random trade ideas, in that it provokes thought and starts a dialog.
by smgmatt on Dec 22, 2008 9:57 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I really don't want Bargnani
How about Bargnani to GSW, BWright to us, Salmons to Raps?
www.mancancook.net
by vfettke on Dec 22, 2008 10:56 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I like
But give us Randolph too (i like freaks). Well give the Dubs Douby because they don’t have enough guards.
by Doubl3Dos3 on Dec 22, 2008 10:58 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Hmm...
that could be a good call. Douby would be awesome under Nelly
www.mancancook.net
by vfettke on Dec 22, 2008 11:03 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
If by awesome you mean flat as a pancake.
No one has ever been “under Nelly” and survived-
I don’t see the Kings landing two high ceiling lottery picks in exchange for Salmons. And Bargnani is horrible.
Hot dogs, get your hot dogs.
by jjham15 on Dec 22, 2008 1:18 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
My how we change
I remember a time when we pined for Randolph, but now I totally agree with you that I’d be fine if he did not come our way.
*By “we” in the “we pined for Randolph”, I mean we as in StR. I don’t recall your stance on him at draft time, kimgme.
Never forget: I am a complete idiot
by Exhibit G on Dec 22, 2008 2:56 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
it seems like
The Warriors would more likely fire Nelly than abandon their last two lottery draft picks. There is no way we are getting Randolph and/or Wright for just Salmons. Have you seen Randolph? The dude can ball. He could be like a Lamar Odom who cares
by CDinSD on Dec 22, 2008 9:01 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Intriguing
The Wally/Hickson for Miller/Kenny Thomas deal seems interesting. Wally hustles like hell, and Hickson certainly looks like he could have a future.
But would Cleveland pass up any future possibilities of killing a play-by-play man on live television by denying him the call, “Here they come, Sasha Pavlovic to Szczerbiak, lob to Zydrunas Ilgauskas!” THUD
I’d hate to lose Salmons, but even though I don’t think he’s fool’s gold at all, you still gotta sell high when your team sucks. This too shall pass.
Rocks are free, and slingshots easily stolen.
by andy sims on Dec 22, 2008 9:08 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Sutter's Mill is here, forget Fool's Gold
John Salmons has more than panned out. If you want to be a skeptic you could say that soomeone has to get the points/stats. Well, discount all you want, he is still the able one. John Maynard Keynes is great but we are short on supply and we cannot sell high and take back low.
Your best starter and best defender for a rookie project and a three point shooter who doesn’t shoot that well and doesn’t defend at all? No thanks.
BWright is a bit one dimensional which is why he is dogged by Nellie. He has hops, wingspan and block shots but offensively – no low post game, can’t create, no mid-range game and not known as a passer. Wright – to me – is Fools’ Gold. He is BWright’s alter ego – has some offense but he can hide behind Mikki Moore – maybe he can be Darius Miles without the drugs and or just maybe he can be Donte’ light. No thanks
Agree with posts below – Cleveland is not looking to add contracts and Z is Euro BM. They can’t be dumb enough to touch anything right now. For even money, BMiller helps them more than Wally if nothing else but to back up Z
As for Andrea – he is a Petrie Euro player – but does not defend and rebounds just ok given his size. He would play 3 then 4 and I like our 3’s better – Cisco, Green and of course, Salmons.
Hickson is a stud. Like him alot – he is in the Milsap mold and could see a JT/JJ/SHawes grouping at the 4/5. But he is a project.
by betweentheeyes on Dec 22, 2008 12:52 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Don't believe it
I don’t see how Cleveland would want Brad. Big Z is a very similar Big man. BMill wouldn’t offer them anything but less D.
by Doubl3Dos3 on Dec 22, 2008 10:57 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
Cleveland is 23-4
If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.
Shut up and Coach
by Carl on Dec 22, 2008 10:58 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
truth
though Bmiller wouldn’t hurt them and losing Wally probably wouldn’t either
"You keep on using that word
I do not think it mean what you think it means"
by lietothegirls on Dec 22, 2008 11:04 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly
Looking at their stats they both score as many points as the other but Brad adds more rebounding and assists
A big man rotation of Wallace, Ilgauskas, and Miller is quite a bit better than the one they have now of Wallace, Ilgauskas, and Varejao (who has really underproduced).
www.mancancook.net
by vfettke on Dec 22, 2008 11:09 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Disagree
And I hate Varejao. Varejao gives them rebounding, defense and energy that Brad doesn’t/can’t. Wally is obviously a completely different player. Cleveland already has inconsistent midrange jump shooting with Ilgauskus.
If Cleveland subtracts Wally and Varejao, they lose three point shooting, defense and rebounding. They gain better passing and some insurance against Ilguaskus getting hurt. Brad can be a nice offensive player, but there’s an opportunity cost to putting him on the floor. I don’t think it’s worthwhile to them.
Shut up and Coach
by Carl on Dec 22, 2008 11:25 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Not really
He’s from the Mikki Moore School of Defense, where taking a charge is really important. He doesn’t rebound that much better than Miller. At least, not enough to make up for how much most Miller brings offensively.
www.mancancook.net
by vfettke on Dec 22, 2008 11:36 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
But Brad is
An exceptionally poor defender. I mean, really really bad. Historically bad. And Varejao (who I hate and think is only slightly better than Kenny Thomas) scores at almost the same rate that Miller does.
Defense + energy + three point shooting > passing.
Shut up and Coach
by Carl on Dec 22, 2008 12:28 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
You might be underestimating
How much energy, defense and passing Miller would bring to Cleveland by assuming he would play similarly there as he does here.
The more you guys work the trade machine, the happier I am GP is our GM.
by ForThree on Dec 22, 2008 12:37 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The Cavs are fine the way they're presented.
Wally is another spot shooter next to Mo Williams, Delonte West, Sasha Pavlovic and Daniel Gibson. You can’t have enough good shooters around Lebron James. Plus Wally is an expiring contract.
BOOK IT!
by kingme18 on Dec 22, 2008 1:35 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Another problem with this rumor
B52 + K9 = about $19.3M; Wally + Hickson = about $14.3M.
Who is the last player in this trade?
And I also agree that Cleveland should have no interest in this deal. Paying Miller, Ilgauskas, and Wallace a combined $37M in 2009 would kill them.
That said, I think this is a good fanshot because it is just the kind of trade the Kings should make for Miller. A large expirer and a first or second-year player that looks ready to play real minutes for Miller and K9 is the way to go, IMO.
by furious.d on Dec 22, 2008 11:23 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Stockpile Young Bigs
Will Hawes or JT work out and reach our highest expectations in a few years? Time will tell, but one thing I do favor is adding another young front-row playmate to the mix so they grow together. Whether it is Bass, Hickson, Brandon Wright or someone of that ilk, bring them in and let’s start building a team.
by coolcatreportdotcom on Dec 22, 2008 12:19 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
The only problem with this deal as I see it
Is that under the salary cap, it won’t work. Miller & Thomas make too much money combined. Nowwwww, if you add Eric Snow, you got yourselves a deal. :)
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
by pookeyguru on Dec 22, 2008 1:17 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
I think my dream version of this Cleveland deal is
Brad Miller, Kenny Thomas and Quincy Douby for Wally Szczerbiak, Eric Snow and JJ Hickson. Perfect all the way around. Cap room and young player. Lots of cap room actually. And the best part? The Kings don’t even have to sign a player with it. They can just keep it and not get themselves in financial trouble when all the contracts start kicking in again with all the extensions from their rookies.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
by pookeyguru on Dec 22, 2008 1:53 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I love John Salmons and don't want to see him go
but he currently earning 5 + mil and he’s playing like a 8-10 mikkion dollar player. I think Johnnie might be the chip that could get someone to take K9 (woof). Salmons is currently underpaid for the value he brings to the court. When Kevin comes back next season (that’s right I say sit out the rest of the seas on and get that ankle fully healed) and our kids are in their sophomore year and starting to play to their abilities rather than their potential he may be a piece we don’t need anymore. Salmons is having a career year and his value will never be higher than it is now. Would Bill Walsh trade him? I think he would.
As for Anthony Randolph what can I say? NO, no, no, no,no,no. The kid is weird, the only thing he’s done this year is dunk on Yao and stare down Kevin Garnett. I think he’s going to be a draft bust. Brandon Wright on the other hand is someone I’d love to see in a King’s uni though I don’t see how we could get him.
"We are in the business of kicking butt and business is very, very good." - Charles Barkley
by Bluejohn on Dec 22, 2008 2:01 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Nellie is still shy about trading to the Kings
after his famous “Billy Owens for Mitch Richmond is a no brainer”. Too true but not the way he meant it. I don’t think BWright becomes a King via GSW.
by betweentheeyes on Dec 22, 2008 8:15 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
If Toronto wants Salmons
and they’re offering this year’s pick, take it. No pick, no trade. His value has never been this high and they’re a team that needs a swingman. They have Anthony Parker and Jamario Moon, and have gone as far as start Bargnani with Bosh and O’Neal. They just signed Jake Vokshul for help.
Right now, their pick stands at #9 and trading for O’Neal didn’t make them better as far as I’ve seen. Firing Sam Mitchell made them worse. Still early in the season though, but they’re 2-6 since Jay Traino took over. If they got Salmons, like they wanted to in 2006, the best that could happen to them is get a 7-8 seed in the playoffs.
I say deal Salmons for a potential lottery pick, maybe even give up the Rockets’ pick if they have to. It’s only a jump of 15-16 spots in the draft. Plus, Bargnani isn’t a bad guy to pick-up and they can drop him in 2010. Wouldn’t be bad to see a rotation of him, JT and Hawes right now. Bargnani’s only 23 too.
by rc360 on Dec 22, 2008 3:20 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Who cares?! With a name like that, how can you go wrong?!
Never forget: I am a complete idiot
by Exhibit G on Dec 22, 2008 3:28 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
JJ is a nickname
K9(woof!) is a lifestyle.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
by section214 on Dec 22, 2008 4:42 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Crotch licking and cat poop eating is not my idea of a lifestyle
Napear: "Going in to the final timeout what did the coach tell you?"
Bibby: "I asked the coach if I should go and he said, I don't really know what he said."
by kangsfan on Dec 22, 2008 11:03 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I've said it before, I'll say it again
Your comments are funny, but they’re even funnier when I read them as though they are told by Krusty the Clown.
Hey, hey!!!
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
by section214 on Dec 22, 2008 11:19 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
A successor to your throne?
Hmmmmm, the kingdom awaits the answer……
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
by pookeyguru on Dec 23, 2008 3:03 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
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