Ignoring the First 44 Minutes ...

by Ziller on Dec 3, 2008 6:18 AM PST in Recaps Comment 76 comments

Any way you slice it, the Quincy Douby substitution (he came with 4 minutes left after having played zero minutes to that point) was bizarre. Whatever justification you offer can be dismissed fairly easily by the phrase, "But Quincy Douby?" Strangely, Bobby Jackson seemed to be the person most offended by the decision to insert Q over a "tired" BoJax.

"I was fine, man," he said. "I wasn't gassing. You aren't going to shoot the ball the way you want every night, but defensively those are moments I play for. I like challenges like that."

To be sure, Jackson played awful. But he's been here before. He's done it ... this season. Douby has had two chances to claim victory, and neither chance came close to success. Maybe we're all simpletons for assuming his end before the first month concluded. But I think the case for his end has been made pretty well. He's in a crisis of confidence, and I daresay the Kings stood a better chance with anyone but Q this time.

In the last four minutes of this game, the Kings were not put in a position to win. Kevin Martin made the right plays, Beno Udrih made the right plays (if a little slow on one pass that could've have gotten Martin wide open), Spencer Hawes made the right plays. Brad Miller had a really awful attempt, but whatever -- he had a great game.

Hell, Quincy Douby made the right plays. If he's in a crisis of confidence, it isn't stopping him from firing away. Good on him. That's what he has to do.

But again, this team was not placed in a position to win.

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not bizzare

I guarantee that this inane decision will get the talk about his imminent dismissal back in high gear. And it should, IMO. That substituion was one of the dumbest coaching decisions I’ve ever wittnessed.

And how about the play the Kings came out of the timeout with a couple of mins left: Kevin Martin shooting a fade away 20 footer. That is the best you can draw up? Hell, why go to the basket when the other team is in foul trouble?

Finally, how many minutes too long did he leave the 2nd team in the game while our leads evaporated? It should have been obvious to anybody watching the game that Miller and Hawes should not be on the bench at the same time. The offense simply bogs down without one of them at the high post. They don’t even have to be scoring – just out there stretching the defense and moving the ball.

Reggies Theus will not be the coach of the Kings much longer without a dramatic turnaround from this very bad basketball team.

by Kusian on Dec 3, 2008 7:37 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

It's aggravating

Because I still have hopes that Theus will stick long-term…but it’s been a season and a quarter now and his playcalling out of timeouts and in crunchtime is just awful.

There’s a lot of people giving Theus a pass because he hasn’t had a healthy squad, and that’s fine. But that, in and of itself, does not mean that Theus is a good NBA coach. It could mean he’s a bad NBA coach who has injury problems. It could mean he’s a good NBA coach who’s been dealt a shitty hand of cards. The injuries in and of themselves should neither give Theus a pass nor should they be ignored when evaluating his performance.

But I’m guessing that a really good coach, or a coach with great potential, could be making lemonade out of these lemons. It might be nasty, chalky, bitter lemonade, but it would at least be drinkable. That’s how I felt about the team earlier this season, but not any more.

What we are seeing right now on the court is completely incoherent to me. It feels like regression, not progression.

"Don't sweat the petty stuff and don't pet the sweaty stuff." - My Dad, confusing me at a very young age.

by otis29 on Dec 3, 2008 7:08 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

It has been incoherent

or at least cohesive. It’s not just injuries it’s where the injuries were. Your top 3 SG all down at the same time. When has that ever happened in the history of the NBA. And when did it happen. In the month of November, when your team has the busiest schedule in NBA history. 17 games in 29 days, with 3 sets of back to back, traveling and no more than 1 days rest in between game. No time to practice and no time to teach your young rookies. If Theus worst enemies tried to come up with a sure fire way for him to fail, they won’t have come up with a senario as hard as this.

"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom

by HighTops on Dec 4, 2008 2:19 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

You are assuming

that the team is actually running what he calls. Without being in the huddle listening to Theus make the call you really have no idea of what is actually happening.

To your other point, it could also be that this team just does not yet have the overall talent to compete with other NBA teams on a daily basis. Changing coaches may not make one bit of difference.

by KingsFan on Dec 4, 2008 9:24 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Reggie's late game player decision?

Douby-ous.

SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Dec 3, 2008 7:48 AM PST reply actions 2 recs

If Douby had hit that 3

we would not be having this conversation and Theus would be lauded as some kind of coaching genius. One thing Douby did do is shut down Korver. Till then Korver was having his way. That’s when Williams had to step up and step up he did making Beno look very bad.

by KingsFan on Dec 3, 2008 9:16 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I guarantee you

I would have still considered the substitution bizarre, even if Q made both threes, blocks D-Wil three times and lit Jerry Sloan on fire with a match struck on the back of Spencer Hawes’ head.

by Ziller on Dec 3, 2008 9:22 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

In fairness

Ziller, if all that had happened, it would have been really bizzare, but of course I get your point. :)

by ForThree on Dec 3, 2008 9:42 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Agreed

Regardless of the eventual outcome, it is a curious decision.

Never forget: I am a complete idiot

by Exhibit G on Dec 3, 2008 10:02 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Sometimes a coach

has to think outside the box. I know I have made some coaching decisions that many thought were odd. Sometimes you’re the hero on those things and sometimes you end up the goat. There is something to be said for being willing to go out on a limb and do what you think is right. We can all pile on Theus now that we see in hindsight it probably was not the best decision. So let’s say he chose BJax instead. Do you think the outcome would have been any different? Bjax missed all 5 of his three attempts last night. I guess you could always that it means he was due for one to fall.

by KingsFan on Dec 3, 2008 10:19 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

No,

but somebody besides Douby would have been. Somebody that was in the flow of the game. Somebody that hadn’t recently choked and lost all confidence.

It was a bad decision. There is no argument to be made its favor.

BTW, I was at the game and you could hear the collective groans when Douby entered the game. Even the casual fan had a visceral reaction to the stupidity of that coaching decision.

by Kusian on Dec 3, 2008 10:41 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

In the situation --

A close game, six-game losing streak, at home, given Douby’s recent history … if you’ve got to think outside the box, you go somewhere else.

by Ziller on Dec 3, 2008 11:13 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Based on this theory -

If Theues puts K9(woof!) in and draws up a play to him, it is Thomas’ fault if he does not come through. Fair enough. But does the coach not shoulder some of the blame for deciding to rely on Thomas in the first place? And if not, then why in the hell does a team have a coach?

SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Dec 3, 2008 2:03 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Agreed

Listening to the Theus supporters calling into Grant and Mike tonight, it doesn’t appear that Theus has any impact on the game either way.

“Theus doesn’t miss free throws”
“Theus doesn’t forget to play defense”
“Theus doesn’t get himself into foul trouble”

Of course, KHTK goes out of their way to put the dumbest of the dumbasses on the air, so I will shut up now.

"Don't sweat the petty stuff and don't pet the sweaty stuff." - My Dad, confusing me at a very young age.

by otis29 on Dec 3, 2008 7:16 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Theus doesn't need to be a hero

He needs to do his damndest to help the guys out who had the Kings on the verge of winning that game.

What Theus did is the equivalent of a field goal kicker missing the game winner after his teammates came back from a two touchdown deficit in the fourth quarter.

"Don't sweat the petty stuff and don't pet the sweaty stuff." - My Dad, confusing me at a very young age.

by otis29 on Dec 3, 2008 7:14 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

We'd still be having this convo

but we’d all let out a big sigh of relief for a lucky win. Douby was given has chance to show that he could hit the clutch shot… twice! For whatever reason he was given the chance again last night… twice. He bricked one off the rim and I believe he completely overshot the second one.

www.mancancook.net

by vfettke on Dec 3, 2008 10:02 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Doubt it

Reggie simultaneously gave Douby ANOTHER chance and screwed him at the same time. You don’t put a guy in with 4 minutes left in a close game if he hasn’t played all night. That’s not freaking calculus, that’s basic mathematics.

I feel bad for Quincy today, that was a classic case of being set up to fail.

"Don't sweat the petty stuff and don't pet the sweaty stuff." - My Dad, confusing me at a very young age.

by otis29 on Dec 3, 2008 7:10 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Theus didn't pass QD the ball

and Theus didn’t draw up the plays for QD to take the shot. Theus asked Douby to defend Korver and Quincy did that and he did it well. If you want to blame someone, blame Beno who had 3 people open, but lost his dribble AGAIN and made a desperate pass to a wide open Douby. Quincy didn’t have to take that shot, but he did.

Or, blame Martin who had a open shot and instead of taking it passed the ball again to a wide open Douby. And, Dooby chose to take it again. So if you really want to blame someone, blame Quincy’s teammate, the one’s that had faith in him and passed the ball to him.

"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom

by HighTops on Dec 4, 2008 2:28 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Respectfully disagree

Theus put Douby on the floor. Do you really want Udrih and Martin to eliminate 25% of their passing options, or to ignore the wide open player that is supposedly paid to hit those shots?

SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Dec 4, 2008 8:38 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs

Here here

rec’d

by Kusian on Dec 4, 2008 8:52 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Hear Hear

I’m not sure that BJax was the answer, but I’m 100% positive that Douby was not. It’s hard for me to comprehend that a coach (on his own or bending to pressure from the franchise) would insert a struggling player in crunch time of a winnable game when the team is on a serious downhill skid just to boost the boy’s confidence?
This team seems to be locked in some sort of hellish vortex of futility and is currently unable to win games that we really should, and I’m starting to believe that this has far less to do with the players – after all, there has been several times when the young’ns have pulled us ahead in tough games only to have Theus throw the old experienced dogs in to snatch defeat out of the jaws of victory.

Theus is coaching us to the lottery – possibly a good thing if you are a bean counter with the long term financial health of the franchise as your priority. As a fan, it’’s excruciating to see the headlong plunge past mediocrity and straight into full on, loser ass, soul crushing suckitude.
OK, dramas over – deep breath and get back to work.

by batso on Dec 3, 2008 7:54 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

How about Bobby Brown?

I don’t think that Jackson was a good choice offensively or defensively but Douby was a horrible choice and I’m not blaming him for what happened. You can’t sit a guy for the whole game and then bring him in with four minutes left, its not fair to Douby or the team. I like Theus, but the last week he has taken Jason Thompson and Bobby Brown completely out of the rotation and paid the price with the losing streak. Mikki Moore was horrible again last night and needs to yield his minutes to Thompson. Tighten the rotation Reg- Hawes, Miller, Thompson at the 4-5, Garcia, Salmons, Martin at the 2-3 and Udrih and Brown at the point with an occasional spark from B-Jax. WTF!

Hot dogs, get your hot dogs.

by jjham15 on Dec 3, 2008 8:52 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

Yep

by Ziller on Dec 3, 2008 9:23 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Thompson

Not only needs to get more minutes but needs to be involved more in the offense. Theus needs to run some plays for him and get him some open shots via the pick-n-roll/pop.

"Oh, boy! This website is very good. Hey, let's talk about the Raiders!" - "Peaches" Napier

by dalt99 on Dec 3, 2008 9:57 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Theus

won’t even run plays for Spencer, who is arguably our third best scoring option.

JT has not had much of a chance to get into the flow of the game and, as a result, has recently looked ineffective on the offensive end.

by Kusian on Dec 3, 2008 10:17 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I saw Hawes in the low post several times

Are those not plays for him?

by KingsFan on Dec 3, 2008 10:22 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I was exaggerating

They do, in fact, occassionally – let me emphasize occassionally – run a play for Spencer. Generally, though, he is not a main option. He gets many of his points by sheer hustle or by being an option at the end of the shot clock.

They, obviously, should be running more plays for him.

by Kusian on Dec 3, 2008 10:43 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

But Theus would have to give him some of Mikki's 12 minutes

Granted JT didn’t do much last night, but he really can’t be expected to with 3 sporadic minutes here and there.

Shock needs PT, plain and simple. He has heart, and hustle, and is probably the only person on this team with some real toughness. There was a play last night where one of our guys, I think Martin, goes for a layup and is fouled. The layup missed but out of nowhere JT comes flying in and almost dunked it. He ended up slamming the ball into the front of the rim, but it didn’t matter because the whistle was already blown. The point is, he’s one of the few guys that’s hustling like that. Garcia always brings it but hasn’t had the chance (although he fought for some great offensive rebounds last night). Spencer’s been doing it too this year. Those three do a lot of those important “little things” that we hear about from Reggie all the time. But I guess until Thompson starts taking more charges he won’t get the minutes… which is funny because instead of planting his feet and getting knocked down he’d rather try and swat the ball.

Theus needs to put the vets on the bench and just let the youngsters go at it. I’d rather blame the youngsters’ green-ness than the coach’s bad decisions for a loss

www.mancancook.net

by vfettke on Dec 3, 2008 10:21 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs

Last night showed one positive

The decision to start Hawes instead of Mikki was a step in the right direction. I think the future will see more Hawes till Mikki is a non factor relegated to spot time off the bench.

by KingsFan on Dec 3, 2008 10:43 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

True!

But I really don’t like Hawes and Miller on the bench at the same time.

by Kusian on Dec 3, 2008 10:44 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I agree with that

then what’s the answer? Maybe start JT and let Hawes come in off the bench at the 7 or 8 minute mark?

by KingsFan on Dec 3, 2008 10:47 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Tough call

I like Spencer starting, but his production doesn’t really seem to be affected one way or the other. As long as he gets his minutes, it seems fine either way. I do know that I’d rather see JT or Hawes start over Moore.

One way or the other, I’ll bet you won’t see long stretches without one of them on the floor from here on out. The staff will certainly notice what we all noticed.

by Kusian on Dec 3, 2008 10:49 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I would definitely start JT over Hawes

If JT had started and been given most of Mikki’s minutes we’d have been much better off. He’d have gotten into the flow of the game and played well. Plus, it puts the Kings in a situation of always having Hawes or Miller on the floor, which I don’t think will ever be a bad thing.

One excellent thing about these two young big men is that they will never pull a Salmons and complain about their spot in the rotation. As long as they get their minutes they’re all hustle all game. They just need the damned minutes.

www.mancancook.net

by vfettke on Dec 3, 2008 12:08 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Yes.

First I love SHawes. I love him starting. I love his swagger. I love his defense even. But starting both Hawes & Miller leaves us with no, emphasis-ZERO, centers off the bench. It has been obvious so far in Reggie’s rotations that JT can play the 3, the 4, or—if absolutely necessary—the 5. By stacking centers in the starting line up you kill your bench rotation. If Mikki sits, you have to, HAVE TO, play JT. It is absolute. The question then becomes has JT “earned” those minutes; can he play well enough? I think if he is given a longer leash, some constructive criticism, and more floor time the answer to both of these is yes. But he has to feel welcome, and as of late Reggie has made it apparent that JT is not welcome at that possition.

With this done we look like this:

Udrih/Brown
Martin/Cisco(yeah he’s not really a 2 but what can we do?)
Salmons/Greene
JT/Moore
Miller/Hawes

Nobody else should be seeing playing time with the exception of BJax with occasional energy moments at the 1 or 2. When his shot is on, you leave him in, when it’s off, you take him out. BJax should be on a short leash.

This lineup also facilitates veterans with youth. It gives JT more development, gives Hawes the offensive responsibility when MM enters the game and you can dabble with this rotation.

One thing I want to see more of is Brown WITH THE STARTING LINE UP. Sub out Beno after 8 minutes, give Brown some quality reps, let him learn the flow of the best of our team. If you just start plugging him in with lesser players he’s going to make lesser plays. Put all of our players in a situation to succeed. Think of how much Adelman played his veterans… A LOT.

If yr not happy with the results, lower yr expectations.

by tokyo on Dec 3, 2008 11:22 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Spot-freaking-on

"Don't sweat the petty stuff and don't pet the sweaty stuff." - My Dad, confusing me at a very young age.

by otis29 on Dec 3, 2008 7:18 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Personal Experience

In a not too distant Roseville rec league, long, long ago….

I had a coach who sat me for the full 3rd quarter, and then inserted me into the game with a few minutes left in the fourth. My legs had stiffened up, my shot was cold (and it had never been a thing of beauty even when warm). I managed a steal, and took off to attempt the breakaway lay-up. I was so stiffened up that had to slow up, pass off, and reset.

This was a game I had played in. I cannot begin to imagine how ice cold you must be having not played a minute, and then being thrust into a close contest. Now, Quincy is a professional, and much better at coming off the bench and contributing than 8th-grade Exhibit G, but the point remains the same.

Never forget: I am a complete idiot

by Exhibit G on Dec 3, 2008 10:08 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

Why Douby? Why?

It made no sense. What happened to Cisco, exactly? Hurt again? Why was Douby taking that shot. Why not Kevin, or Cisco, or hell, why not Donte Greene? Douby folded under pressure… again.

www.mancancook.net

by vfettke on Dec 3, 2008 10:09 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

Garcia

Was not put back in because he had already played 30 minutes. That was his “quota” given him by the team doctors.

Yes, Theus knew that so the question is, why did Theus use up Garcia’s 30 minutes before the FINAL minute? Also, would one more minute really have hurt?

"Oh, boy! This website is very good. Hey, let's talk about the Raiders!" - "Peaches" Napier

by dalt99 on Dec 3, 2008 11:20 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard

Theus couldn’t give some of Garcia’s 2nd or 3rd quarter minutes to Douby to save Cisco for the end? If Cisco had the chance to shoot those 2 threes that Douby shot it would’ve been a swish followed by Cisco’s “mean face.”

By the way, I George Foreman gaurantee that the moment Cisco hits a big shot his “mean face” will give this team instant swagger for like 10 straight games.

www.mancancook.net

by vfettke on Dec 3, 2008 12:11 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Time management biggest error

Absolutely agree. Theus has how many asssistants, and they couldn’t manage to save 4min of the alloted time for the end of the game. No excuse.

I have no problem benching BJax, he was terrible. Kover had just burned him for two 3’s , and Jackson refuses to stop chucking 3pts shoots. Left with Douby who can play D & Greene who can’t, Theus was left with no choice. Douby was a hope and a prayer. But, if the coaching staff had done it’s job, Cisco would have been available. There is no excuse for that.

"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom

by HighTops on Dec 3, 2008 3:15 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Put

Martin on Korver, insert Greene or JT at the 3. Both better options than Douby.

I’d rank it:
Cisco>Greene>JT>Douby, for that situation. Time management screwed the 1st and I have no idea why he bypassed options 2 and 3.

Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott

by Kfan in Korea on Dec 3, 2008 3:59 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Cisco not an option

If you move Martin to Kover, then you want JT or Greene to cover the 6’ 5" Almonds who was 5 for 9 from the field and 1 for 2 from 3pt. Put our rookie SF & PF on a SG? I think your just making a mismatch even worse. But, if you want to use Greene, then I guess the best matchup is on Kover. IMHO though the outcome is the same.

I still say the only legitamate chance to win the game was with Cisco in at SF. And, that error falls on the Coaching Staff and not just Theus.

"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom

by HighTops on Dec 3, 2008 6:45 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Saw this from the Jazz board - Ouch!

Yes, it was this ugly.

How do you overcome 18 first-half turnovers? Play the Kings.

Despite 25 turnovers (11 in the first quarter), the Jazz were able to walk away from an ugly, ugly game with a W.

And it’s not like the Kings were playing amazing defense. They did have 12 steals, but the majority of the turnovers just came from sloppy play. Poor passing was the biggest culprit. Either they’d throw it out of bounds, fumble a bad pass, or telegraph where the ball was going.

The Jazz didn’t play any better on the defensive end. The Kings pretty much got any shot they wanted – they just couldn’t shoot. The only memorable defensive moments were two blocked shots from an unlikely source, Morris Almond. Both of them came from behind on would be dunks.

Thankfully, the Jazz were playing one of the worst teams in the league. Had they played a .500 team, the game would have been over at the half, if not the first quarter.

by KingsFan on Dec 3, 2008 10:29 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

Truth be spoken

"Oh, boy! This website is very good. Hey, let's talk about the Raiders!" - "Peaches" Napier

by dalt99 on Dec 3, 2008 11:40 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Words to live by:................Tighten the rotation

I’m not even going to support Reggie’s decisions but….but, last night was the first night he had his full lineup available.

One thing I noticed that I had forgotten. Not only does Brad make the offense easier for Kevin but Kevin makes Brad a lot better. Brad had a good game last night, a classic Brad Miller game, the first we’ve seen this season.

I don’t think Reggie’s coaching for the lottery, though unless we see a miraculous turnaround soon we are going to have a good shot at the #1 pick. There have been many games that were a cause for panic but last night wasn’t one of them. We’ve got everybody back and are finally in a position to see what we’ve got.

Going forward……………………..Tighten the rotation.

"We are in the business of kicking butt and business is very, very good." - Charles Barkley

by Bluejohn on Dec 3, 2008 10:33 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

Salmons

was injured and didn’t play last night.

Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott

by Kfan in Korea on Dec 3, 2008 1:29 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I would have preferred

To see BBrown, BJax, Donté, JT, or even Mikki on the floor during the final minutes.

Putting Douby into a winnable game just to watch him spiral out of control to his death AGAIN was not only supremely unintelligent, but somewhat cruel.

Unless Theus is playing “Let’s see how many games Douby can cost us all by himself” he needs a better explanation for this substitution than “I thought Bobby Jackson looked tired.”

I actually monitored the score all evening, then watched the last half of the fourth. The only good thing to come of it is that my son has a very good idea of the wrath I am capable of expressing, which will undoubtedly make him think twice before breaking any rules on his mission that will get him sent home.

And he got a good laugh out of it, being irreverent and not at all afraid of me.

Let's go home.-Kevin Martin

by LeaguePassAddict on Dec 3, 2008 3:59 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

All I can do is laugh

I find it funny how Reggie always picks late games situation to throw Quincy in the game.. How do you expect the man to perform when he’s not warm? Then you got people that come on here and talk trash about him like he’s the worst player on the Kings. Yall sat there and talked about why play him when he’s not in the teams future, but yet he sees 40yr old Bobby Jackson playing major minutes who I highly doubt us in this teams future.. Donte Green is getting all the opportunites Douby never got in his early stages.. Quincy has been a victim of bad coaching since he got drafted by this team. And its the reason why he hasnt accomplished much in his short career.. You clearly seen it lastnight. What more could he do when he’s always thrown into situation he’s not prepared for? But yet yall still bash him like he’s the problem…

by JustaRealDude on Dec 3, 2008 6:20 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Reggie was being honest

After watching BJax get burned by KOver for two 3’s and Jackson putting up another bad 3 of his own, Theus went to Douby because he WAS the best DEFENSIVE player on the bench. And, from the defensive aspect Q did a great job.

I doubt that Theus ever planed for Douby to be put into the position where he had to make the game winning shot. Theus didn’t pass the ball to Douby and I’m sure he didn’t call that play. Douby’s teammates passed him the ball and Douby himself chose to take the shoot. This was an opportunity that fell into Douby’s lap and if he didn’t think he could make those shots then he shouldn’t have taken them. Cold or Warm he hasn’t performed like anyone would want him to , and that falls on one person and one person only.

"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom

by HighTops on Dec 3, 2008 6:59 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Dude

That was a wide-open 3 pointer – probably the cleanest look anyone had from the outside all night for the Kings. And it was from the shortest 3-point distance on the court. And he airballed it.

I don’t blame the PG for actually getting the ball to a wide open shooter, who is supposed to be a skilled marksman from the outside. I don’t even blame the shooter, who was ice cold coming in. That blame has to go to the coach.

"Don't sweat the petty stuff and don't pet the sweaty stuff." - My Dad, confusing me at a very young age.

by otis29 on Dec 3, 2008 7:26 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Who should have taken the shot?

Maybe Cisco who said his leg was stiffening up and had been sitting for the entire quarter? Or, maybe Greene who’s be 0 fer the last 3 games, and only played 3min in the first half? OR, maybe Theus should have put Brown in all 6 foot of him to defend 6’ 5" Almonds or 6’ 7" Korver? Yea that would have been a great defensive substitution.

And, by the way, is there any person at the game sitting in the stands, that wouldn’t have gladly gone down on the floor to take that shot cold or not, for a chance at an NBA career? I would. And, I’m sure QD wanted to take the shot too. If he didn’t think he could make it then he should have passed it but he didn’t.

"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom

by HighTops on Dec 4, 2008 2:45 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

All I'm saying

Is I’m not blaming the PG for getting the guy a wide open shot. Were it our offense ran like that all the time!

Honestly, I’d rather have seen BB, BJax (yes, even as badly as he had played) or Donte take the shot. Or Cisco for that matter, but that’s been beaten to death at this point.

I have no clue what you’re getting at in your second paragraph, and not sure what it has to do with the subject at hand.

"Don't sweat the petty stuff and don't pet the sweaty stuff." - My Dad, confusing me at a very young age.

by otis29 on Dec 4, 2008 5:28 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

It is also the job of the players on the court to know who has the hot hand

… and who doesn’t. Beno should have passed the ball to Hawes or KMart over Douby and KMart should have taken the shot instead of passing to Douby.

by hozr on Dec 4, 2008 12:21 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Ah, I gotcha

Because every play the team runs is going to have two guys open. Do you know how ludicrous that sounds?

And Douby WAS one of the players on the court…does your rule (the "It is also the job of the players on the court to know who has the hot hand ") apply to Quincy? If so, he should have swung the ball back around.

The point guard got the ball to a wide open shooter. Problem is, the wrong damn shooter was on the court at the time.

"Don't sweat the petty stuff and don't pet the sweaty stuff." - My Dad, confusing me at a very young age.

by otis29 on Dec 4, 2008 2:41 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Another problem is

That I haven’t once seen mentioned, is that’s probably why Utah left him open in the first place. The chances of him hitting that shot was very low, and that’s why Utah left him so wide open.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on

by pookeyguru on Dec 4, 2008 3:08 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Are you saying

that Sloan knows our team better than Reggie?

Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott

by Kfan in Korea on Dec 4, 2008 3:09 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

In that situation

Sloan got it right. (And does anybody here think Reggie IS a better coach than Sloan?)

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on

by pookeyguru on Dec 4, 2008 3:12 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

That's not the question

It’s whether he’s a better coach than the Dunleavy’s, Musselman’s, Isiah Thomases of the world…

"Don't sweat the petty stuff and don't pet the sweaty stuff." - My Dad, confusing me at a very young age.

by otis29 on Dec 4, 2008 3:26 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Douby was in for his defense

not his offense. He shut Korver down, mission accomplished. For some reason, the other players gave Douby the ball for a wide open 3 even though they know he hasn’t been shooting well lately. I don’t remember how much time there was on the shot clock but if there was time then yes, Douby should have swung the ball. And I agree with those that say that Douby was left open because the Jazz knew he hadn’t been shooting well. I’m no Douby apologist (God forbid!) but I think he did what he was put into the game to do but ended up in the position to do more than he was supposed to and failed.

by hozr on Dec 4, 2008 5:11 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

If Douby is not an offensive option

he should not be on the floor at that stage of the game. He’s not Bruce Bowen or James Posey on defense, for crying out loud…and those two guys hit wide open three pointers.

SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Dec 4, 2008 7:40 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Not a Bruce Bowen

But he was better than BJax whom Korver had scorered 5 pts on during the 4th quarter, because Jackson couldn’t fight through all the screens that Korver was running him through.

But for the record, I just check and NO Other coach in NBA history has ever brought a player into the 4th quarter of a game cold. So, that officially make Theus the worst coach in history.

"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom

by HighTops on Dec 5, 2008 2:19 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I defer to Otis' comments below

SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Dec 5, 2008 8:04 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Good grief

When did Douby become Michael Cooper? Did I miss a memo?

And why was he in for his defense? Korver had a whopping 10 points when Douby entered the game. I’m not sure the guy needed “shutting down”.

"Don't sweat the petty stuff and don't pet the sweaty stuff." - My Dad, confusing me at a very young age.

by otis29 on Dec 4, 2008 10:24 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

And to answer your question on the timing

2:23 Spencer Hawes defensive rebound
2:15 Quincy Douby misses 23-foot three point jumper

Shortly thereafter:

1:05 Deron Williams makes driving layup
0:50 Quincy Douby misses 23-foot three point jumper

Neither of those shots were chucked with the shot clock being an issue.

"Don't sweat the petty stuff and don't pet the sweaty stuff." - My Dad, confusing me at a very young age.

by otis29 on Dec 4, 2008 10:29 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Logic and statistical analysis

End game. Ouch.

SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Dec 4, 2008 11:04 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Then Douby should have swung the ball

Especially after the first miss it should have been clear to the squirrels in the parking lot that he was unlikely to make a shot when he was that cold. If memory serves, in that game Hawes was 50% from the 3 and KMart was 30% from the 3. Everybody on the floor should have been aware of that and those are the guys who should be taking the shots at the end. The Jazz clearly knew that because they allowed the worst guy on the floor to have the ball and dared him to beat them. And he didn’t.

by hozr on Dec 5, 2008 12:14 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Since when do we have defenders like that on our team?

Last time I looked the closest thing we have to a Bowen, Posey, or Cooper is Salmons, who was injured and didn’t play. Korver was scoring in the 4th over BJax who was defending (or trying to anyway). So, who you gonna put on Korver? Greene or JT? That’s an automatic trip to the foul line. Bobby Brown? Too short, Korver’d just shoot over him. Cisco’s leg was tightening up and (rightly) didn’t want to risk re-injury. So who’s left? QD’s a decent defender and as it turns out he shut Korver down. Bjax was stone cold on offense and was not getting the job done defensively. So by by subbing QD Theus was trading no offense, no defense for no offense, decent defense. What better option did Theus have? I sure don’t see one.

by hozr on Dec 5, 2008 12:07 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Korver

Was 2 for 5 for 5 points in the fourth before QD entered the game, with a couple of fouls and a turnover.

Not exactly unstoppable.

I’d much rather have seen Bobby Brown, Donte or BJax than an ice cold QD. As to Korver shooting over Bobby Brown (6’2"), I doubt that extra inch of height from Quincy (6’3") was going to bother the 6’7" Korver as much as you think.

We are going around and around here. Frankly, I think the result speaks for itself. It was a bad decision by Theus, and at least those other options give you an offensive component that Quincy just can’t provide at this point.

"Don't sweat the petty stuff and don't pet the sweaty stuff." - My Dad, confusing me at a very young age.

by otis29 on Dec 5, 2008 1:50 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I should have taken the shot

There. Settles that argument nicely.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on

by pookeyguru on Dec 4, 2008 1:22 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

You would have drawn iron

"Don't sweat the petty stuff and don't pet the sweaty stuff." - My Dad, confusing me at a very young age.

by otis29 on Dec 4, 2008 2:43 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

But see

People hate me already. So I’d just remain the villian, as per usual. Umm, shit, nevermind. I’m going to lose this anyway. I say lets get beer goggles over this team.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on

by pookeyguru on Dec 4, 2008 3:07 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I see...

You still have trouble reading the content here. Maybe you can re-read the post and most of the comments here which aren’t blaming Quincy. This was a coaching issue, period.

However, you’re still delusional if you think Q is ready to play minutes in the NBA. The guy should be looking for a job in Europe for a few years, IMO. Then, if he’s ready to compete at an NBA level, he should come back. Simple simple.

"Don't sweat the petty stuff and don't pet the sweaty stuff." - My Dad, confusing me at a very young age.

by otis29 on Dec 3, 2008 7:31 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

You must be delusional because I clearly said he’s been a victim of bad coaching ever since he’s been drafted.. By the way, he doesnt belong in Europe, he belongs in the NBA.. Just not playing with the Kings.. Douby is more ready then Donte Green, espeially if he was to get th opportunity Green has been giving to go out and just play worry free basketball.. Not having some idiot coach throwing him in the game when he’s cold and mind you, he didnt play the last 4 or 5 games..

by JustaRealDude on Dec 3, 2008 8:36 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Not delusional at all

You say we are bashing Q like he’s the real problem. Which is the exact opposite of the majority of the opinions here.

"Don't sweat the petty stuff and don't pet the sweaty stuff." - My Dad, confusing me at a very young age.

by otis29 on Dec 4, 2008 5:30 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Yep, the mob is certainly

out for Theus’s blood.

But look at the bright side. We’re another game closer to a lottery pick!

by KingsFan on Dec 4, 2008 9:32 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

In Memphis

It wasn’t a late-game situation and he still choked.

0-9.

But I’m sure that was the fault of the bad coaching he’s had his entire career. And not being warm. And whatever other excuse you want to make for Quincy.

The fact is, which I have said over and over, is that Quincy Douby has never shown, outside of summer league, that he has the capability to help the team win games. And when I said that the decision by Theus to put Douby into the situation against Utah that he did was cruel, I meant to Douby.

Because there was no indication from Douby’s past performances that he was going to do anything other than what he did. And that hurts Douby, as far as his confidence and future value, as much as it hurts the Kings.

You keep talking like we’re down on Douby for no reason, but he’s never given us a reason to cheer for him. If you have his ear like you say you do, tell him that as soon as he steps up and shows something on the court, he’ll have as many fans as he could possibly wish for.

Tell him to be ready.

Let's go home.-Kevin Martin

by LeaguePassAddict on Dec 4, 2008 7:08 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs