The End is the Beginning is the End
I still don't think Reggie Theus should be fired during the season. I feel I need to make that disclaimer every two days because given all the news and commentary surrounding the team, it's easy to see a criticism and assume they are among the growing "Fire Reggie!" chorus. I'm not a part of the chorus. I think that his finish last season, his committment to the team's best weapon, and his ability to adapt to the situation at hand (by benching Mikki Moore) has built up enough capital for him to keep his job.
But this is a Kings blog, and we can't avoid the fact Theus could very well save or damn his job Tuesday night against the best team in the conference.
***
Logistically speaking, there is a lay-off between Tuesday's home game and the Friday rematch in L.A. Then the team plays four games in five nights. The final of those four games begins a road trip which ends two days before Christmas. A Toronto-Boston-L.A. Clippers homestand follows Christmas. Then there's another two-day break.
Coaches rarely get fired on road trips. (Sam Mitchell lost his job after a 39-point loss in Denver with one road game left on the trip. It was noted as an odd occurence by pundits.) Coaches do get fired around Christmas, unfortunately, but Reggie isn't your average coach, in terms of his public persona and his relationships with the guys who would do the firing.
The Denver loss was huge -- HUGE -- in terms of Reggie's near future. As we've been over quite a bit in the 36 hours hence: with a healthy roster, rest and practice time, you cannot come out and play so unfocused, unexcited and unbelievably bad at home to a non-elite team. Denver is good, but they are not "blow you out in the first five minutes" good.
With another egg, there's no way you can count on Geoff Petrie's attitude staying even. By all accounts, Petrie has the gavel here. Everything points to the idea that the Maloofs have given Petrie permission to can Theus -- once again, he's the patient, forgiving one. (See: Musselman, Eric and Brooks, Scotty.) There's a key difference, though: by the time Musselman's team began embarrassing itself on a nightly basis (March), it was really too late for a coup. December's not too late.
I maintain there's a lack of instant replacements available. Permanent coaches from outside are rarely hired midseason; the last one I can recall (I'm sure I'm forgetting someone) is George Karl in 2004-05. The interim, Michael Cooper, had 14 games before Karl took to the sidelines. Petrie moves slowly on coaching hires. If he canned Theus with eyes at making a hire (Flip Saunders, Avery Johnson) this season, how long would the interim (John Whisenant, Kenny Natt, Chuck Person) have?
***
To the subject of the way the team is playing, jjham15 had a lucid comment on the team's focus early in the Denver game. jj points out the sensical gameplan Theus apparently implemented, but noted that the players didn't exactly run it to proficiency.
The players have no interest in listening to anything Theus has to say which is where I draw the comparison to Muss. I think the coaching staff had a game plan, I think it would have worked if the players would have executed. This is a game that I hope Martin takes to heart because regardless of injury, he has decided to play and right now he isn’t really playing basketball. What happened against Denver has nothing to do with growth, it has everything to do with getting your coach canned which looks like the current agenda of Martin and others.
Honestly, I don't think Martin wants Theus canned. I offer last week as an example. Still, it's hard to ignore the fact we're seeing the type of effort associated with the late Musselman Kings, perhaps the early 2005-06 Adelman Kings pop up here. Not a good sign for Reggie.
***
I think if the Kings hang tight with the Lakers or (gasp!) win outright, Theus has the job for the rest of the season. If it's an early blowout, I wouldn't be surprised to see Whisenant or one of the assistants take over Wednesday.
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I've said many times there is a lot of problems with this team
It’s why when I wrote my preview, i talked about beer goggles. Given everyting that’s happened, it’s amazing there hasn’t been something worse to come along (a la an Al Harrington trade scenario that the Knicks totally bailed the Dubs out of).
I blame the Maloof’s, and Joe in particular, for his stupid public statements. That’s what really kick-started this nonsense. This team wasn’t perfect. It wasn’t doing everything well. It also was a long season, and to condemn a coaching staff 10 games in wasn’t just a stupid move from every angle; it was an outright retarded way to approach it. The family wanted to dump Theus because they weren’t better. They wanted the team to persevere injures (rebuilding teams don’t do that Joe), and they expected Theus to put in a better system like Rick Adelman. That, also, is not happening. Rick Adelman is one of the 5 or 6 best coaches in the NBA, and he takes more lumps than he should. So does Jerry Sloan, and he’s one of the 3 or 4 best. Criticism comes with coaching, but when it’s unrealistic and off base, then all it does is exacerbate matters, and that’s all that statement did.
I don’t think firing Theus makes sense, but if the players won’t play for him, I say jettison Reggie now and save him the agony. He’s done too much for this team to be treated so badly, but as JJ noted in that excellent summary, it won’t matter if the players won’t listen. They are being part of the problem (B Jax, Moore, Miller especially) because they expect better. It ain’t happening, because they aren’t as good as they all think individually they are.
I would love to see Whiz at this point be an interim coach for a ton of reasons, but for nothing else other than these following reasons:
- We can shutup about how he won a title w/ the Monarchs—the WNBA is not the NBA—and never will be, and it isn’t necessarily transferable
- Some of his “greatness” stemming from this area maybe will get people off the high horse about the “greatness” the Maloof’s bring as owners—right now, they’re mostly mediocre, and I’m being kind saying that
- Last but not least, Whiz can take over a team that doesn’t lsiten to their coach, doesn’t play defense, doesn’t have the willingness to move the ball on offense, and doesn’t really get how to put themselves in a position where the system that is in place could work for them
Bottom line, I say make Reggie a martyr. He’s made mistakes, enough to get fired in some respects, but he hasn’t been given enough time. This isn’t the Wizards where Grunfeld didn’t hire Eddie Jordan, and got tired of the start, this is the Kings were you knew this was a rebuilding team. Okay, so maybe they might not win 25 games this season. And? What’s the point? This isn’t acceptable. Get better talent when it’s available, and don’t make dumb trades that set back the roster, don’t hire coaches over the objections of your GM, and don’t make ludicrous public comments that set the spark of a 2 million fanbase bonfire. That is why I blame the Maloof’s. It’s their team, they own it. At some point, they’re responsible for all of it.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
by pookeyguru on Dec 8, 2008 11:44 AM PST reply actions 4 recs
The Whiz
If the players don’t listen to or respect Theus, will they really respond to the guy who coached in the “chick league?”
www.mancancook.net
Nope
That’s pretty much the main issue I see with this team. If Martin backs Theus, and believes in him, and isn’t right, I don’t think this team has a chance at beating anybody. Some nights they’ll just look awful. (I also think people are forgetting Martin may have re-aggravated his ankle too.)
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
I wonder with vfettke
Cisco? Cisco? CISCO!!!! #*$!%! !
by lietothegirls on Dec 8, 2008 3:23 PM PST up reply actions
Great post, Rec'd
I especially like the second to last sentence. The Maloofs need to stop acting like spoiled billionaires who think they can make coaching changes and push for trades to better their team. That’s Petrie’s job. They need seperate their obligations as owners, and their personal feelings as fans.
It’s trendy to can the coach for a team that is not performing well. But there is a big difference between a team that is not performing well, and a team that is under performing. I don’t think the Kings are under performing, they are not a very good team.
That having been said, I haven’t watched the last two games and haven’t seen this sense of player rebellion that your talking about. So if that’s true, then maybe you can blame the coach. Otherwise, all I can really blame Theus for so far is his late-game execution. The execution of set plays in the waning seconds thus far has been terrible.
AK47, SN13, B52, and K9. One guns, Another runs, He fits, while it licks.
Speaking of Eddie Jordan...
I won’t get into the whole “does Reggie deserve to be fired” arguement. Reggie has done plenty to merit a coaching change and he put in enough work to deserve playing out the season. The bottom line is the team has checked out mentally. The coaching deathwatch has on and the next embarassing home loss is Reggie’s last. With Whittman getting the axe today, Petrie is going to be compelled to try to salvage the remainder of the season before things really get out of hand if it already hasn’t gotten there yet. Speaking of Eddie Jordan, I agree that there is a good chance he might jump into the coaching seat for a 2nd time here in Sac. It has been documented that Petrie didn’t want to fire Eddie the first time and with Jordan being a disciple of the Princeton offense he would seem like a front runner as long as he is available and the Kings have a need…
Damn you Robert Horry!!!
What kind of multi-year contract does Eddie have to get to offset the loss
he’ll get after being fired by the Wizards Bullets?
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
THATS the problem.....
Cisco? Cisco? CISCO!!!! #*$!%! !
by lietothegirls on Dec 8, 2008 3:23 PM PST up reply actions
What are the chances of Petrie in the coaches seat?
Could he go the way of McKale?
I was thinking about that the other night
It would be fascinating to see the man on the sidelines, but I’m not sure he enjoys the spotlight enough to be an NBA head coach.
"Don't sweat the petty stuff and don't pet the sweaty stuff." - My Dad, confusing me at a very young age.
I'm not sure he likes the media enough to want to do that
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
He's got health
issues too. Being an NBA head coach is not good for your health.
Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott
by Kfan in Korea on Dec 8, 2008 3:31 PM PST up reply actions
LOL rec'd for the classic Kfan humor
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
I can look this up on the internet
but I don’t believe “become an NBA Head Coach” is one of the recovery recommendations of pneumonia. No way he ever coaches. They didn’t just hire Levein to groom as GM so Petrie can slow down and you know, take an NBA Head Coach spot.
McHale coaching just a way of the owner saying – you wasted my $ again, you, you deal with it!
by betweentheeyes on Dec 8, 2008 1:30 PM PST up reply actions
Sheridan & Iavaroni are both on the hot seatl
Firing a head coach of a terrible team only leaves one thing: a terrible team. Owners will never get it.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
starting to sound like an Agatha Christie novel
I think we should hire Col. Mustard in the Library before he uses another candlestick.
by betweentheeyes on Dec 8, 2008 1:33 PM PST up reply actions
Yeah it is getting redundant
And I have a math final on Wednesday, and about 9 hours of travel in between now & Wed.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
my way of saying/agreeing - get a Clue
The only problem with any losing team is the same we have repeated:
How many losses until loyalty turns to apathy.
by betweentheeyes on Dec 8, 2008 1:35 PM PST up reply actions
What if the head coach is terrible as well?
"Don't sweat the petty stuff and don't pet the sweaty stuff." - My Dad, confusing me at a very young age.
I doubt that's it
But okay, I’m always game to be proven wrong. Whenever is anybody, especially me, ever 100% on anything Otis?
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
This is all too frustrating...
A young rebuilding team losing is one thing. My favorite team getting spanked like they’ve never played basketball before? That’s a whole different problem. But where does the real problem lie? It’s never one person’s fault, but more of an amalgamation of different problems.
So, where do the problems start? I think they do, in fact, start with Reggie. This team’s defense and offensive system, or lack of either, are his biggest flaw. Reggie is not much of a defensive specialist, plus he doesn’t have a whole lot of defensive players. This does make defending other teams tough. So, first and foremost, the offensive system is his biggest weakness. He has great offensive players, but they aren’t getting it done. We’ve seen flashes of what I can only refer to as “complete offensive brilliance” but nothing spectacular or, more importantly, consistent.
Now, another part of the problem: the front office. Do they want W’s or do they want the youngsters to play and develop. We can’t have both. The Maloofs have said they want to see the youngsters play but obviously don’t understand that they won’t get the wins they also want. Their impatience will kill this franchise. So if Theus plays the youngsters we lose, because that’s what young teams do. And if he plays the vets to try and win, the Kings still lose because our vets just aren’t good enough for any extra wins. So now, we have Theus’ inadequacies as a coach as well as the Maloof’s impatience regarding their team’s development. This is a horrible combination.
Problem three: the players. These guys need to be held responsible too. There are two players I’m giving immunity to: Shock and Hawes. They are the bastions of heart and consistency on this team. Granted, JT has made mistakes, but he’s a rookie. Greene has made a valiant effort but just isn’t there yet; his only deficiency is his Greene-ness (forgive the bad pun). K9(woof!) doesn’t count for obvious reasons. Williams hasn’t gotten to play much, and Quincy’s bad shots are not just his fault but the fault of his coach for putting him in in crunch time. Bobby Brown is another rookie working his ass off, but still a rookie. Cisco hasn’t really had the chance to do much of anything, and neither has Kevin. Although Speed has been somewhat disappointing thus far, this might be due to the fact that he hasn’t been able to build a rhythm. Salmons has tried his damndest but it just isn’t enough. Part of the problem he brings to the table is his selfishness. But, that’s just the player he is and has become in his career. It’s to ingrained. Beno just isn’t the PG we need. He’ll be a great backup to Rubio, but that could eventually be Brown’s job.
This leaves me with three players, all of whom Pookey mentioned: Miller, Moore, Jackson. When it comes to Miller, I just don’t see the heart any more. However, this may be due to being dragged down by the other two culprits. Moore has become the butt of many StR jokes for all the “little things” he does. Taking charges and screaming loudly don’t count. He’s not doing the things a PF SHOULD be doing: rebounding, challenging shots, scoring inside. He’s getting outproduced by the rookie, period. And on top of that, doesn’t there seem to be a sense of entitlement with him now? Like, he deserves the starting spot because he’s worked so hard for years and got lucky enough to play with Jason Kidd? I used to like Moore for his humility and effort, I’m just not seeing it any more. As far as BJax is concerned, his return has been bittersweet. He has been a SacTown favorite for years and has a reputation as a classy player with a great attitude. Leaving the court early for not getting minutes is not classy, period. If he’s mad for not getting any minutes he has no one to blame but himself. Yes, Jackson has carries us a few times this season, but he is still shooting terribly. Jack up enough shots and eventually some go in. That, apparently has stopped, as witnessed by his outing against Utah. He hasn’t deserved those minutes and shouldn’t be complaining.
Crappy veteran attitudes will kill the chemistry of a team full of youngsters. Add to this Theus poor coaching and impatient ownership, and we’re screwed. Plain and simple. For awhile, I was okay with losing. I hoped for a high draft pick that would land us Ricky Rubio. But now I’m worried. I like Rubio. Why would I want him to waste away in Sacramento?
www.mancancook.net
by vfettke on Dec 8, 2008 1:31 PM PST reply actions 4 recs
Team still supports Theus and why not?
Before the season started the experts project the Kings to be a 25-30 win team. They looked at our roster, and said based on that we were lottory bound. That was before we lost all 3 SG’s in November, the month where we had more games than any other NBA team , and no days to practice.
So, here we are 5-16 or about 1 to 2 games below where people said we will be, without knowing what kind of miserable November we would have. So, now everyone wants to micro-manage every game, pick apart every decision, and find something or someone to blame. Yes, if Theus had made a different substitution or called a different play in the time out, we MAY have won a game or two more. But, blaming Theus for the failure of the Kings to win, is like blaming the chef on the Titanic for leaving the sink running, and causing the ship to sink.
Theus shouldn’t be judged by wins & loses alone. His mandate was to win & develop the rookies. And, as far as i can tell the rookies are doing better than expected, so I say give him time with at least a healthy roster, to see if he can get the team to 30 wins.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
by HighTops on Dec 8, 2008 1:38 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
will the support be immune
to 9, 10, 11 straight losses? Losing drains the soul and changes order to chaos.
The one thing that many have voiced – how did the smart over-achieving Reggie Theus become the dumb, mixed-up Coach he is portrayed today?
Love the Titanic reference btw.
by betweentheeyes on Dec 8, 2008 1:44 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Ooooh
Nice line about losing.
Rec’d for that
Cisco? Cisco? CISCO!!!! #*$!%! !
by lietothegirls on Dec 8, 2008 3:27 PM PST up reply actions
Well said HT
And I hope more than a few people heed your advice, as I feel it’s sound.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
I like Reggie-
I think Reggie has learned a lot from last seasons mistakes and that he is in an unenviable position of having a leadership problem in the locker room. Lets look at the 4 veterans the Kings have on the roster-
Brad Miller- Suspended for smoking the hippy lettuce- pillow soft defender- known for erratic behavior on the court leading to technicals and bitch slap fouls.
Mikki Moore- Career cheer leader who values snakes more than passes…or rebounds. Known to speak out in the media, play invisible and take charges instead of using his 7 foot tall frame to block a shots. Good life experience- in a hobo kind of way but the Kings aren’t exactly filled with guys who weren’t drafted, spent 10 years playing in Tel Aviv only to go blind in one eye before finally getting their chance.
Bobby Jackson- Ex-star 6th man who has lost his legs. Even when he was good his shot selection was horrible- the shots just went in then. His failing body isn’t a new issue, he wasn’t good last year or the year before either. Now he walks off the court before the horn sounds.
John Salmons- Too busy being a spiritual leader/moral influence to lead on the court. I am glad the Kings have a guy like this on the roster but he is a good man, not a leader of young millionaires.
I thought coming into the season the mixture of youth and veterans would be enough but we are learning a lot about a couple of these guys and it isn’t pretty. Step up Martin or Garcia because this is the world you will be living in for the next 5 years.
Hot dogs, get your hot dogs.
Leadership Leadership
wherefore art thou?
(it goes with a Reggie Theus “parting is such sweet sorrow”)
by betweentheeyes on Dec 8, 2008 1:58 PM PST up reply actions
Sheakspere, I didn't expect Sheakspere (or however you spell it)
It’s a cliche in sports but owners fire coaches because they can’t fire the players. I have said it before, i don’t like the idea of firing Reggie but if his firing is inevitable then fire him now. Either fire him or extend him. Joe Maloof has caused this situation by shooting his mouth early in the season. Even in stable organizations the millionaire boys club (players) have an attitude and are hard to manage. With a lame duck coach his position as a leader and a manager has been undercut by the owners and it doesn’t surprise me that tthe players are starting to tune him out.
One trait of weak ownership is a succession of failed coaches. It appears that we are on that treadmill now. I personally don’t think Whizenhut is the answer, but at least if the Maloofs bring him in and he fails they may (I said may) be smart enough to realize that they don’t have the skills to pick coaches and finally leave that decision to GP.
Rebuilding is ugly, a 20 win season is ugly even when you see your rooks improve. Between the injuries and the string of losses I don’t think that we have seen a rebuilding effort yet. We have seen a mishmash of strategies made necessary by the injuries that doesn’t satisfy either the win now/develop the youth camps.
No doubt Reggie has made his share of mistakes. However, Reggie wasn’t shooting 29% FG’s last game. Maybe some of his set plays were ineffective but on the other hand most of us could have beaten most of the King’s player in a game of Horse last week. I mean the shots just weren’t falling and you can’t put all that on Reggie (or the Maloofs for that matter).
The bottom line is that we just don’t have a very good team right now. These veterens aren’t good enough to carry the kids as they begin to get better. I don’t know what the solution is, you just can’t sit all the vets and throw the kids to the wolves and hope they improve. Kevin has only been back one game and was possibly reinjured, it’s going to take more than one game for him to get back to the level of play he was at before he got hurt. Cisco is just now shaking the rust off and getting into game shape and even at best he can drive you nuts with his inconsistent game.
There aren’t any saviours here. Rebuilding involves trading and getting better vets, growing the skill set of your young players and drafting well. it’s a process and it won’t happen overnight. We’ll see how GP does with the trading part, with whoever the coach is develops our youth and the way this team is playing we are going to have a real shot at getting a good draft pick. Until then, be careful what you wish for, rebuilding is a bitch.
"We are in the business of kicking butt and business is very, very good." - Charles Barkley
by Bluejohn on Dec 8, 2008 3:01 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Well said Blue
Agree with every single thing you said.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
If Reggie is under pressure
Isn’t GP as well to make SOME KiND of move to shake things up roster-wise?
as Bj says, the coach isn’t shooting 29% and some fear needs to be instilled…
Cisco? Cisco? CISCO!!!! #*$!%! !
by lietothegirls on Dec 8, 2008 3:37 PM PST up reply actions
I'd try that first
Shake up the roster, use a BobbyJ, MM or whoever dump to gets some fear into the locker-room
Cisco? Cisco? CISCO!!!! #*$!%! !
by lietothegirls on Dec 8, 2008 3:39 PM PST up reply actions
where's that K-Mart leadership we've been hearing about?
he’s got to do better than roll his eyes at the Coach in the huddle while shooting 2 for 11.
Life is every mammal's journey from very very wet to very very dry.
by Holmdel on Dec 8, 2008 3:11 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
He doesn't have the personality
He may be a leader – but we need an EMOTIONAL leader. A player who tells his team they WON’T lose, even if they do.
Salmons and KM are good but they are none of those…..
Cisco? Cisco? CISCO!!!! #*$!%! !
by lietothegirls on Dec 8, 2008 3:33 PM PST up reply actions
In my eyes
we have two sets. The vet leaders… which is mostly BJax and Mikki. We also have another set emerging in Thompson and Hawes. They play hard every night and don’t give up. They are the future leaders in Sac. The problem is their youth won’t allow them to get the respect they deserve from the other guys, who will instead turn to Jackson and Moore
www.mancancook.net
How bad is it?
Did a quick scan thru last season’s results to compare blowout losses last season to this season. It was quick so I don’t guarantee 100% accuracy.
Last season losses by 20+
- 9 games total
7 road
2 home
This season losses by 20+
- 6 games total
3 road
3 home
Last season 25+
- 3 games total
0 home
This season 25+
- 4 games total
1 home
So at this point we’ve already surpassed last seasons home total for both 20+ and 25+ blowout losses and the overall total for 25+ blowout losses. We’re 25% into the season and have 66% of the total 20+ blowout losses already. Yikes!
One more comparison:
Blowout losses as a percentage of total games played(BOL / games played)
Last season: 9/82 = 11%
This season: 6/21 = 29% Almost a third of our games are blowout losses.
Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott
by Kfan in Korea on Dec 8, 2008 4:23 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
Well aren't you a ray of sunshine!
;)
"Don't sweat the petty stuff and don't pet the sweaty stuff." - My Dad, confusing me at a very young age.
If truth hurts,
Truth backed up by statistics hurts like a motha.
I think truly it isn’t the number of losses this season that gets to me. I expected it to be almost this bad. But it’s the KIND of losses that’s making me feel that unsettling combination of anger, frustration, and fear.
Let's go home.-Kevin Martin
by LeaguePassAddict on Dec 8, 2008 4:43 PM PST up reply actions
Yeah but once the anger subsides LPA
MY question is how do you fix it without firing all of the players? I mean really, let’s get down to it. What does firing Reggie REALLY accomplish?
The only reason I think Reggie should be fired is to knock down Whiz about 5-7 pegs. If it happens in February, it’s too late. If it happens in December there’s time to get a turnaround. Jerry Reynolds managed to do it. Why couldn’t Whiz?
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
I'm not in the Fire Reggie camp.
I think it would make a team that’s already playing badly play worse, regardless of who was brought in, barring any draconian new rules instituted by a new coach.
And do you really want your young guns to be getting a “The NBA owns your soul, so play hard or die” kind of message?
I think it’s bad that the youngsters are tasting bad losses this early in their careers, but I also think it’s promising that losing makes them angry.
I’d like to see that anger translate to fire on the court, though, and a coach’s job is to teach them how to do just that.
Let's go home.-Kevin Martin
by LeaguePassAddict on Dec 8, 2008 5:32 PM PST up reply actions
I agree wholeheartedly madam
In fact you’ve touched at the core of every issue I think is important to where Reggie isn’t quite coming across. The problem with Reggie is: firing him doesn’t make a bad product better, and keeping him beyond this season means another system with a potentially drastic system of players. That happens in the NBA, but constant turmoil has to stop. I really don’t think this team is as bad as it’s performing, but then again, a cat only has nueve lives, and it seems that Reggie is on about ocho at this moment. And maybe I’m wrong, but this strong over-reaction stems from 2 area’s (of which I didn’t believe to be true at the time, but substantial subsequent evidence seem to back it up now):
1) is that Reggie wasn’t GP’s hire, but the Maloof’s
2) The young players aren’t getting any burn, and having a “Yes” man like the Whiz might be what this team needs until it can get the direction it needs long term
Truthfully, if Whiz isn’t considered any long term factor, I never would have a problem with him becoming an interim coach. I just wouldn’t. Reggie probably has another day to change course, and if he can’t, and he probably won’t, it’s probably best he is canned.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
is there a possible long term benefit
To trading Kevin Martin? He’s a great shooter, a good driver, creates for himself well, etc., but he’s not going to ever be a great defender or a floor general. Most of all, as a star player, I don’t see him doing either thing a star player needs to do, taking over in crunch time, and making those around you better, or at least look better. Is there any sanity at all in trying to trade him for a dynamic 1 that could do both things? Who could the Kings realistically get for KMart? (I as this, not as a rhetorical question, but because my NBA knowledge is not that great yet).
This year not much
You’re basically going to have trade him for half his salary, because he’s a BYC player (Look it up on the ESPN trade checker, it explains BYC pretty well there), and worse, he’s a Geoff Petrie guy to boot. I don’t think you really trade a guy whose just had bad luck with a tender ankle making a good sized contract that he could become a bargain at what he’s paid, just because things have gone bad in the first 20+ games after you traded the team’s most visible player from season’s prior, Ron Artest.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
Yeah, fair enough
Probably too soon to really cast judgment on Kevin’s success or failure as a leader, he deserves at least a few more weeks to get his legs under him. However, if he’s comfortable going back into the second banana scorer role if we can get someone to compliment his skills, I still think that would be the best decision long term for him. I guess what I was trying to get at was the 800 pound gorilla in all these trade discussions; Kevin is always assumed as a long-term part of this King’s organization, but should that necessarily be the case? Again, it’s a hypothetical, but if we’re going to talk hypotheticals, it’s worth discussing ALL the options, isn’t it?
Yes he should be considered long term in this franchise's plans
What are you crazy? That’s my first reaction.
A thoughtful reaction would be this: What has Kevin done that makes you think trading him will give this team a more viable future than what it has already with him?
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
Like the song says
Don’t it always seem to go that you don’t know what you got ‘til it’s gone?
by coolcatreportdotcom on Dec 10, 2008 5:19 AM PST up reply actions
If you're talking about the glory years I suppose
If you’re talking about Artest, there isn’t a day that’s gone by that has made me miss him yet. And that would be the case had the season continued on course without a resounding convincing Lakers win.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
It depends
on who you get back, right? I would love to hear the offers from other teams. I also would love to hear the responses from the StR crowd, maybe on a separate post. I know some think Martin is worth building aroud, but I agree with you. He’s a good scorer…and that’s about it. I’d like to know what return some at StR would project.
We don't live in a vacuum
But if word gets out that KMart is trade meat he will suck
by betweentheeyes on Dec 8, 2008 9:22 PM PST up reply actions
Who will suck?
I think I get your point. I’m not really suggesting starting the bidding by NBA GMs, just hearing the ideas from King’s fans who want improvement.
KMart is a worker and a devoted community assest
being held up for trade bait while working my butt off to get better and dealing with an injury, would sour my milk.
by betweentheeyes on Dec 8, 2008 10:33 PM PST up reply actions
OKaaayyy...
You’re too serious. Lighten up. How about Martin for Deron Williams? Would you do it? Dwight Howard? Just kidding around.
I guess talking meaninglessly about trades that may benefit the Kings without considering a player’s community involvement, the inner workings of the salary cap, and everyone’s expert opinion on Petrie’s past moves and future vision is to trivial for some. Oh wait, all of these posts are basically trivial and meaningless.
Just havin’ fun, hopin’ to hear of a dream deal. Real or conjured up by someone on StR. Sorry. Like I said earlier, maybe a Martin trade is a subject for a separate, light-hearted post. But the original question I was responding to was bartenpa asking "Who could the Kings realistically get for KMart? (I as this, not as a rhetorical question, but because my NBA knowledge is not that great yet).
They are going to have to
create another column in the standings for BOLs.
An L is an L is an L.
by coolcatreportdotcom on Dec 10, 2008 5:15 AM PST up reply actions
What are the Differences?
What are the differences from this season so far and the last half of last season where the Kings played well and pushed a win total to 38.
Off the top of my head:
- = RON ARTEST. Like him or not, the main change from last year is that Ron is gone.
- = INJURIES. There have been nonstop injuries so far this season. Martin out all but 9 games. Cisco out for all but the last 4 or 5 games. Miller and Moore out for 4 or 5 games. Salmons out… etc.
- = YOUNG GUNS. Young players like Spencer, Thompson and Greene have been getting big minutes so far this season. Spencer rarely played 20 minutes a game last season.
- = BRUTAL SCHEDULE. The Kings have played above .500 teams in 12 of the last 14 games including the last 9 in a row with two Lakers games coming next.
For a team with loads of injuries, young players, a very rough schedule and a lack of identity, it’s not surprising the Kings are where they are at this point of the season. The main worry I think we all have is the lack of competitiveness. Too many blowout losses and games with a lack of effort on defense. Personally, I don’t think Reggie should be fired. I don’t see how this could all be his fault. If the Kings get healthy, play a stretch of games against some sub par teams and still get blown out and play lackluster than I will be the first to say that some drastic changes need to be made. After the Boston game on December 28th, the schedule seems to even out a bit and becomes easier. If the Kings can’t get some wins in January and start getting an identity after that month, then I see changes as being very warranted.
"Oh, boy! This website is very good. Hey, let's talk about the Raiders!" - "Peaches" Napier
by dalt99 on Dec 8, 2008 6:36 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
Rec'd because you're a sane voice
in a sea of unwavering insanity.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
This is when you know you are a fan of a lousy team
I was reading this article: http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/story?columnist=sheridan_chris&page=HotSeat-081208 in ESPN about coaches on the hot seat.. I got down to Maurice Cheeks whose 76ers are 9-12 and I thought to my self, “9-12”?……….. .“that’s not so bad.”
"We are in the business of kicking butt and business is very, very good." - Charles Barkley
If you don't link properly
None of us will get the link BJ. (It’s the chain icon on the top of the message portion of the post. It’s very easy: just highlight the text, paste the link into the box that pops up, and it does all the rest for you. Much easier than the older way of writing out links every time.)
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
I'm suddenly a fan of not firing Theus
…after all, he’s going to give us a top 3 pick!
I think he's dreamy

Sigh…
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
by section214 on Dec 8, 2008 9:53 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
Ziller
Do you still “think if the Kings hang tight with the Lakers or (gasp!) win outright, Theus has the job for the rest of the season.”?
by coolcatreportdotcom on Dec 10, 2008 5:14 AM PST reply actions

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