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Lord of the Kings: The Ivory Towers

I want to echo some of the things I've been hearing in comments and extrapolate a little about the issue of our Ivory Towers, and how that relates to Theus, Rotation, and ultimately why I'm unhappy with Theus currently. That said I too think he should keep his job AS LONG AS THE PLAYERS PLAY FOR HIM, which could arguably not be happening already.

First we need to come to a common ground about who should play at what possition, and yes this relies on everyone being healthy.

Udrih/Brown/Jackson

Martin/Garcia

Salmons/Garcia/Greene

Moore/Thompson

Miller/Hawes

This breakdown alone should emphasize the flaw in Theus' current logic, the move to put Mikki on the bench and, instead of promoting your second string power forward, ineffectively moving your second string center to an out of position starting line up. The ramifications of this move have three effects: there is no one to come off the bench and back up the center position directly, Moore will get more minutes than Thompson because he's a veteran, and Thompson is now burried on the bench because Theus will not play him at center.

We can argue all day about why this happened. Miller's ego, not to be benched; Moore's offensive inabilities; Hawes' development & senoirity; Thompsons inexperience, etc. But the important note is that it takes a simple depth chart and destroys the logic of it. If you want to develop the future center of your team, play him at center. If you want to develop the future power forward of your team, play him at power forward. This is simple coaching, give them a role, have them execute that role. Especially since Thompson is statistically beating Moore in almost every category(shots, free throws, blocks, assists, rebounds, steals, & points).If you sit Moore, play Thompson. (It's not like we're winning now, right?)

I believe the effect of putting JT in the starting line up would be a lot more stability and growth from him. In his starts he's put up better numbers, he has more time to get the feel for the tempo of the game and he provides the energy that our starting rotation currently lacks. (And moving Moore to the bench cannot be a reflection of defence since Theus thinks so highly of Moore's D right?) While we could argue that Hawes does this also, I think Hawes would be better suited coming off the bench at center, knowing his role when he gets out there, and he would enable the offensive load of the second string while playing alongside Moore.

The other effect of this is less playing time for Miller. And while I want to note I love Miller usually, when his effort is lacking he becomes this teams worst enemy. If he's not getting calls his defense becomes more aggressive(in a bad way), he gets more fouls, he doesn't run the floor, he stops playing, he wines, and he does less to help the people around him. Let him know this is not getting him or the team anywhere. When he begins to pout, put in Hawes quickly. Let him sit for a few minutes, put him back in when we need some experience on the floor.

I could go further with all of this but I think these are the major points I wanted to make. My issue with Theus' is that he says he has a system, or a structure, and granted I'm not on the team, in the meetings, at the practices, but Theus' rotation and system seems highly flawed or even illogical. Players are questioning their roles, because they do not understand them, and on this issue he reminds me of Musselman, remember the Miller quote this summer saying he didn't know what he was supposed to do in Musselman's system? How do you think Moore & Thompson feel right now? I'd bet pretty confused.

Thus CONFUSED PLAYERS = BAD COACHING.

If the Kings are currently confused, which can manifest itself in a lack of effort, weak or routine/tired rotations and passes, then the coaching staff is not doing it's job properly. And if Theus can't change that effort he has to go, unless the Maloofs are happy alienating their fan base while simultaneously looking for a better draft pick in the summer of 09.

 

(This is a FanPost from a member of the Sactown Royalty community. The views expressed come from the member, and not Sactown Royalty staff.)

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Good post, I agree

Like I’ve said before and read in recent posts, JT should play with Miller as a starter. JT should play power forward with the starters alot this year to get comfortable with his future spot. When the old, lazy, complaining Miller shows up for the first quarter, let him run the offense with his (deterioating) passing ability to get the offense flowing while JT’s energy and rebounding balances out the front court.

If Miller’s game does’t get better in 5-10 minutes, or maybe even if it does get better (hopefully Sac’s not getting blown out), bring Hawes in and let him begin his 30+ minutes, at center, together with JT. Hawes and Miller should both know that Hawes is the future starter. Hopefully before this year is over it’s a no brainer, either because he’s completely surpassed Miller or because Miller gets traded. By the way, I’d hoped for Miller to continue his resurgence from last year but it doesn’t look good.

Besides, Hawes brings some interior offense to the second string when he plays with Sheldon (I hope) and Moore who back up JT in the defense/energy/rebounding/intangibles spot.

I thought Moore and Miller (even though he makes too much) would be great in reduced / mentor type roles, but I also thought Jackson would be. I don’t know anymore. They may all be too proud to sit the hell down.

I’m not sure why Theus is doing some of the things he does but I don’t think he should be fired yet.

by busybe on Dec 8, 2008 7:09 PM PST reply actions  

true, Theus shouldn't be fired yet.

Simply for the reason that there is no way we could bring in an outside guy at the beginning of the season and there is probably no assistant that the Kings would feel better about coaching the team than Theus.
Tokyo, I completely agree with your observations about the mishandling of the current line up. Sure, it has been shaken up by injuries, but we could definitely be putting a better product on the floor by just rearranging some spots and minutes. If we are going to lose, lets at least lose in the most productive way!

I think the effects of having JT play SF this year will be negative for confusing his role instead of positive for making him dynamic. We want him to be a back-to-the-basket post presence and a force on the glass. We don’t want him doing dumb spin moves on O and chasing around guys on the wing.

by CDinSD on Dec 8, 2008 8:29 PM PST up reply actions  

Well said.

You hit the nail on the head. Dumb spin moves, no…force on the glass, yes.
.

by busybe on Dec 8, 2008 9:20 PM PST up reply actions  

Center/Forward

Are you saying Sac should start JT at center and Miller at PF.

OK. 2 bigs start. JT and Miller.

by busybe on Dec 8, 2008 9:46 PM PST up reply actions  

I'm saying that JT plays Center

better than PF right now. His nose for the rebound and lack of offensive polish suits him to follow off the bench behinf B52 and Hawes. Center first, PF second, at least for now.

Cisco? Cisco? CISCO!!!! #*$!%! !

by lietothegirls on Dec 9, 2008 10:04 AM PST up reply actions  

Get that boy in the POST!

I think Hawes should spend more time in the paint as well, as much as I like his 3. What’s exasperating is that Reggie seemed to be calling Thompson’s number early in the season, as TZ pointed out when he yelled at Salmons for not passing the ball inside, and yet the games I’ve watched since then have almost excluded JT from the play calling. Again I’m left with the same question about this team…

Is it the coach not telling them to do things, or are the players just not listening/performing for their coach. This continues to baffle me about the current team, I honestly have no idea who’s really at fault.

If yr not happy with the results, lower yr expectations.

by tokyo on Dec 8, 2008 9:38 PM PST up reply actions  

I don't agree

I think JTs skills may be more suited to Center than hawes’ at the moment. Jt also hasn’t looked comfortable as a scorer yet as evidenced by his measley 8 pts on 10 freakin’ offense rebounds! (not that I’m complaining about the rebounds)

So far MM seems to be the one buried, about 4 minutes last game,

Cisco? Cisco? CISCO!!!! #*$!%! !

by lietothegirls on Dec 8, 2008 9:19 PM PST reply actions  

10 freakin' offensive rebounds.

Start this player! Center or power forward, just get him minutes.

Sure, JT may not be comfortable as a scorer yet but no one said they expect him to be a great scorer right away. He’s a better scorer that Moore already though. Miller will probably start, he scores (and assists). Martin scores, not much else. JT needs to set the tone by being a force on the glass. Center/forward, whatever. I just think his youthful enthusiasm should start the game with Miller and he should play PF because that’s where he’ll probably end up.

I think the point is…if you start Miller and Hawes together, your bench is JT, Moore, Sheldon. Now where’s the comfortable scorer in that group? If JT is the mature senior who could score in college that I think he is, he didn’t forget how to score (you either can average 25 or whatever or you can’t). He’s just adjusting to the speed and skill of the league coming from Rider. His offense will catch up and at the very least those 10 offensive rebounds will be more like 15 or 20 points.

by busybe on Dec 8, 2008 9:39 PM PST up reply actions  

He got those 10 boards off the bench

Why not just let him do what he can until he DOES adjust to the NBA level game? He’s getting plenty of minutes for a rookie.

I think it could be a mistake to throw him into fail as a starter.

Cisco? Cisco? CISCO!!!! #*$!%! !

by lietothegirls on Dec 9, 2008 10:08 AM PST up reply actions  

I guess to me getting boards is part of the NBA level game. It’s a big part. It’s something so difficult almost no one on the team can accomplish it with regularity. It’s a major need for the Kings and JT has not failed at that and I dare say he may not fail. I think his motor will keep him getting 10 boards a night unless you restrict his minutes and vision of rookie of the year (can we still dream/ can he).

What is failing anyway? Is Miller failing this year, how about Bobby Jax, Mikki Moore, Udrih? These guys are our vets and Reggie “throws them in to fail” all the time.

His minutes are OK but should only go up. I’m just saying I think his minutes should come with Miller at the start of the game in hopes of preventing any more lackadaisical blowouts in the 1st qt. If that tandem is getting it handed to them on any given night, you have a backup center (I thought we drafted Hawes to be a center) with some offense and a backup PF who can defend/rebound/hustle in theory (Sheldon, Moore). I don’t see JT as the kind of personality to get discouraged if he has a bad game or two. He’s always pumped up and willing.

by busybe on Dec 9, 2008 11:15 AM PST up reply actions  

10 ORB off of 6 missed put backs

JT gets alot of his boards off his own misses. He just doesn’t have the offensive or defensive skills to start at the PF or Center. That being said, he’s still the best we have at the PF. Offensively he need’s to perfect his jump shot and learn to drive to the basket to become a threat, and force tight coverage. Until then the defense can sag back and clug the lane..

Centers need to be shot blockers and good post defenders, and JT isn’t there yet. PF’s need to be scorers and rebounders and he’s not there yet either. He’s a boundless jumping jack that scores off put backs and dunks off of guard penetration. He’s shown very little ability to create his own shot around the basket or away. He’s had a few drives or running hooks, but they’re clumsy and rushed.

Coming off the bench he is less likely to always go up against good starting NBA PF’s. He’ll have a much better time implementing the new moves he is learning, against reserves like himself rather than starters. If they run plays for him and if he learns to pull the trigger on his jumper when he is open, his minutes however many they are, will be productive.

If Theus continues to run the Miller/Hawes starting lineup, which he should because that’s our best offensive duo, he need to make sure that one of them is always on the court at center. I’d like to see

First Quarter
Miller plays 6min at the start of each quarter at Center.
Hawes start the 1st quarter at PF for 6 mins then move to Center
JT comes in for Miller and takes over PF at 6 Min

Second Period
Miller starts at Center for 6min
MM/Sheden start at PF for 4-6 based on performance
Hawes & JT come in at 6min and finish the quarter- Repeat both quarter for 2nd half

Miller gets 24mins: JT gets 24-28mins; MM/Shelden gets 8-12mins, Hawes gets 36min
No one in for longer than 12mins and everyone get a minimum of 6 min break

"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom

by HighTops on Dec 9, 2008 2:27 PM PST up reply actions  

You make alot of sense

& I like your breakdown of minutes.

by busybe on Dec 9, 2008 2:42 PM PST up reply actions  

Good points:

I would counter that JT will have a faster learning curve if he gets the more advanced competition. It’s great if he can build his footwork on Boris Diaw etc., but if he goes through a stretch of Gasol, Gasol, Harrington, Jefferson, Aldridge, with some nice coaching in between on the breaks wouldn’t he be more probable to come out a better player than if he’d played against: Odom, Odom,Thomas, Gomes, Frye? Sure he might want to cry after the first two games but by the time he plays against Aldridge won’t he have a chip on his shoulder to go along with some fresh new development?

Isn’t this the argument about why college < NBA; the NBA has better players…

I think developing a rhythm with the better players makes JT a better player. It only hurts him if he doesn’t learn from it. If we don’t think he can learn from experience, we shouldn’t have drafted him.

If yr not happy with the results, lower yr expectations.

by tokyo on Dec 9, 2008 3:14 PM PST up reply actions  

or JT could be twisted into a knot

physically AND mentally

and be ruined

Cisco? Cisco? CISCO!!!! #*$!%! !

by lietothegirls on Dec 9, 2008 3:16 PM PST up reply actions  

Better competition better results

Yea, maybe. When I taught my kids to ride a bike, I could have put them on a Harley, but I chose to put training wheels on their bikes instead. And, now I can’t keep up with them.

"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom

by HighTops on Dec 10, 2008 3:24 AM PST up reply actions  

Has he played much with Miller?

I think that is the dynamic that would be most productive for him. Miller doesn’t like to bang, JT does. High post Miller, POST JT. Gives Miller a target inside and he can defer to the other shooters for outside shots.

In this regard I get what you’re saying about Hawes at PF. But I’d just stick with the positions as they’re sketched out currently. IMO Hawes plays too much outside, when we really get excited about him he’s playing inside, above the rim. JT seems more natural inside, I think he’s just got to lose those rookie jitters…

If yr not happy with the results, lower yr expectations.

by tokyo on Dec 8, 2008 9:42 PM PST up reply actions  

BM is a complementary player

he is Shock proof. I like that idea and I think Spencer can adjust – JT fouls early and often, he won’t sit long.

by betweentheeyes on Dec 8, 2008 10:08 PM PST up reply actions  

How about ?

We`re 5-16,so why don`t we play for the future and start both Hawes & Thompson,W/ Brad 1st big off bench followed by Moore or Williiams?My choice would be Williams.
Trade away all upset vets!
Let the youth movement begin,really this time!

by hudson101 on Dec 9, 2008 12:03 PM PST reply actions  

Naughty by Nature wants 5 cents for violating the copyright infringement busy

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on

by pookeyguru on Dec 9, 2008 3:25 PM PST up reply actions  

Agree with everything except Brad

Let’s say I don’t think JT is ready. ( to see why read my earlier post his thread) I don’t object to JT getting more time than Brad because age is catching up on Brad and I think his minutes should be cut to 6 per quarter. But, Brad & Spencer offer the best offensive duo we can come up with, so they need to start. We don’t play well from behind.

I also believe JT will perform better and learn faster if he doesn’t have to go up against Starting PF’s. He can develop his offensive skills just as well against the other teams reserves.

"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom

by HighTops on Dec 9, 2008 2:45 PM PST up reply actions  

my thoughts exactly

As I’ve said tooooo many times. Hawes IS ready to start – though he has a lot to work on still, JT is not.

He’s gettting plenty of minutes for now, he needs to catch his second breath – which i don’t see happening until January probably.

Cisco? Cisco? CISCO!!!! #*$!%! !

by lietothegirls on Dec 9, 2008 3:19 PM PST up reply actions  

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