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The Salary Situation

Tom_toon_tiny by Ziller on in Free Agency/Trades

Here are the salaries committed for next season:

Kevin Martin           $9.0 m
Brad Miller           $11.4 m
Kenny Thomas           $7.9 m
Shareef Abdur-Rahim    $6.4 m
Mikki Moore            $5.8 m
John Salmons           $5.1 m
Shelden Williams       $3.4 m
Spencer Hawes          $2.2 m
Quincy Douby           $1.4 m
Francisco Garcia       $2.0 m
#12-14 pick            $1.7 m*
Two second round picks $0.0 m*
-----------------------------
Guaranteed salary:    $56.3 m
Projected salary cap: $57.0 m

*   denotes 'best guess available'
**  no set salary scale for second-round picks


Available avenues for signing and re-signing significant players:
Midlevel exception: The team can sign any free agent(s) for all or part of the midlevel exception, which should be around $5.2 million. The deal must be at least three years in length, though only the first season must be guaranteed. This is the only way the Kings could sign Beno Udrih this summer, unless they drop more than $5 million in a trade between the end of their season and the day Beno is signed. The max contract which could be offered to Beno (or any other free agent not currently with the team and barring sign-and-trades) would be a five-year, $30 million deal (estimated). The rules allow 8% raises from year-to-year, so in the 5th year he'd make $7 million. Of course, the deal could start lower, and thus finish lower.

Bird rights: The Kings have Ron Artest's Bird rights, and as such they can pay him a starting salary of up to $16 million for a deal as long as six years. The total deal of a max contract is something around $120 million for six years.

There are no technical rules preventing signing both Beno Udrih and Ron Artest this summer. The only thing stopping them, beyond their own reservations: the luxury tax.

The Maloofs won't be paying for a luxury tax for a team which wins less than 50 games. My estimate would place the luxury tax level around $69 million.

Let's suppose Beno signs a deal for a portion of the midlevel -- $4 million is the starting salary. That'd put 2008-09 salaries at $61 million (assuming at least one second-round pick is signed for the typical second-rounder contract). The Kings could start Artest's contract at about $7 million per year with breathing room for necessary roster fillers (of the Justin Williams, Dahntay Jones mold).

Let's suppose Beno signs a deal for the full midlevel, which seems fairly probable if he keeps up his performance from the last two nights. Take another million off that flexibility in signing Artest -- you can start him around $6 million and feel comfortable with the tax line.

Do you think Artest is going to take $6 million a year to stay with Sacramento?

If the Kings decide they will make Artest an offer he'll sign this summer, they will either have to:

  1. Trade current players to one of the four teams under the cap to clear space.
  2. Not sign Beno and replace him with someone cheaper.
  3. Pay the luxury tax.
Option #1 is difficult -- you can't trade for expiring contracts once all the expiring contracts have expired, and I'm not sure Philadelphia and Memphis are going to be beating down the doors for anything Sacramento has. Option #2 is untenable on two fronts: He'll be cheaper than any decent free agent option, and plugging rookies into the starting lineup is a frightful ordeal. Option #3 isn't likely to be on the table.

It's going to be really, really hard to keep Ron Artest past this year, if that's the plan.

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OK
So I did understand our situation and options. Crap.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Feb 21, 2008 4:11 PM PST   0 recs

Double crap!
The people who wonder why so many of us are upset that Petrie didn't trade Artest, are overlooking the fact that Petrie was TRYING to trade Ron. He didn't choose not to. From what I can tell, this wasn't part of his long term or even short term plan. We are upset because he failed. I'm sure he's not a very happy camper either, although he can't come out and say that.

I think in the short term most of us will enjoy watching Ron Ron knock people on the floor, gloat over them, drop the ball on their heads, and felx his bicep as he runs down the court. Who wouldn't? That's exciting stuff.

But when Ron Ron walks next year and we look at whoever is still on the board when Denver or Phoenix drafts, we will be crying.

The bottom line is, we are about 90% sure to lose Ron and get nothing back. I don't know that this is details as much as common sense. GP is probably scratching his head about next year as much as the rest of us.

by SavageBeast on Feb 21, 2008 4:24 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Hmm...
"If we raise the parking fees, hot dog prices, and cut Grant's salary we could pay the luxury tax." Gavin to Joe

by shazam on Feb 21, 2008 4:25 PM PST   0 recs

The only other option I see
is keeping Ron, letting Beno go, and signing a rookie PG with our first rounder. That doesn't inspire a lot of confidence.

by SavageBeast on Feb 21, 2008 4:26 PM PST   0 recs

And
Boom goes the dynamite.
Mikki Moore - WNBA Hair, WNBA Body, WNBA Talent

by otis29 on Feb 21, 2008 4:46 PM PST   0 recs

I'm a genius
Here's the plan:

We hypnotize Ron. He then permanently becomes Good Ron. We then have the following starting lineup:

Beno - A great, true PG who isn't too selfish and will pass the ball.
Martin - Simply amazing scorer
Salmons - Another excellent scorer, good defender
Artest - Amazing at both ends, likes to pass the ball out of the double/triple team a lot too
Miller - Great point center having a resurgence

Something tells me the Maloofs might be more inclined to pay the luxury tax for this team. Especially knowing some of the crappy salaries will come off in a few years, they'll be much more patient.

If hypnosis doesn't work I know a doctor who does great work doing lobotomies.

by vfettke on Feb 21, 2008 4:50 PM PST   0 recs

Did you read the diary?
We can't sign anyone to go over the cap except Artest.

In your scenario, THERE IS NO BENO.

Hypnotize, lobotomize, whatever. It's the money at this point. It's the cap. It's the NBA rule that says you can't go over the cap to sign a free agent.

TickTickTickTickTickTick

by LeaguePassAddict on Feb 21, 2008 5:08 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Dude, Good Ron is still crazy
He signs for the vet minimum.
Mikki Moore in the skills challenge! - LPA

by iashwash on Feb 21, 2008 5:10 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

HaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHa
He may be crazy, but his agent is sane, and envisions a $13-14 million payday for his client.
TickTickTickTickTickTick

by LeaguePassAddict on Feb 21, 2008 5:41 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

King Ron-Ron
I have to admit that up until a month or so ago, I was right with everyone on trading Artest.  But the guy has won me over in spades.  The toughness, the tenacity, the insanity, the screaming, the chest-beating, the flexing.  I love it.  I love all of it.  The guy is the toughest sonofabitch in the league, and that's the kind of player I want on this team. He's a horror in the locker room?  Who cares?  We had a squad of lovable guys who got along swell for the better part of a decade, and all we saw out of it was one losing trip to the conference finals.  I feel like after two years, the Kings have finally figured out how to use Ron in the offense; as a result, he's having fun out of there, and it's infectious.  Whatever else the Kings have been these last few years, they have NOT been fun (if you don't believe me, I would like to present thousands and thousands of empty seats as evidence).  We're not going to find a better player than Ron on the free agent market, so re-sign the guy and let's see where it takes us.  Call me crazy, but I think Ron-Ron is a guy who can lead this team back to greatness.  And I don't mean next year, but THIS year.  When you look at all the great teams we've beat this year, I can't help but have hope.  And remember that I may be the most pessimistic fan who posts on this board.  But I have to say - keep Ron, for this year and many years to come.
Visit sunny and beautiful Movie City USA.

by DB on Feb 21, 2008 4:55 PM PST   0 recs

And if he opts out?
You say "Keep Artest" like that's somehow in our hands.

He opts out.

He's gone. Or... We pay upwards of $10 mil for him as a free agent and hope he stays the Good Ron you've become enamored with.

In the mean time, we lose Beno and Garcia.

This is an upgrade?

TickTickTickTickTickTick

by LeaguePassAddict on Feb 21, 2008 5:06 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Splain this to me
What purpose does a 57 million dollar cap serve if the penalty A.K.A. the luxury tax doesn't kick in until ~69 million?  

What am I missing here?  Why not just go up to 68 next year?

"I drink your milkshake...I drink it up!!!"

by kangsfan on Feb 21, 2008 4:55 PM PST   0 recs

the only way to go over the salary cap
is to resign your own player for more money or use an exception. If you are over the cap, you can't go sign a free agent for $10m. There are a few minor excpetions to that, but this is the major difference.

by SavageBeast on Feb 21, 2008 5:06 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Okay then
how the fuck do teams like NY end up with a 100+ million payroll?  Did they really sign that many players for that much money?  I thought they took on some of those contracts from other teams.  Forgive my ignorance.
"I drink your milkshake...I drink it up!!!"

by kangsfan on Feb 21, 2008 6:22 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Different sport
Baeball's luxury cap rule are actually very different, as are teh NFL's.  While they all have some stupid rules, I think the NBA's works the best(because their players union has the least power)
Wait....Why is everybody clapping? Everyone around me is clapping.... I guess I should be clapping too... GO LAKERS!!! I hate living in So Cal

by 27freethrows on Feb 21, 2008 8:18 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

No I meant
the Knicks
"I drink your milkshake...I drink it up!!!"

by kangsfan on Feb 22, 2008 12:26 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

This Mess.....
GP and the Maloofs may, just may have to pay the Luxury Tax in order to get from point A (An Also Ran Team) to point C ( A Championship Team ).  After signing Brad Miller to his contract, signing Moore to his, receiving Thomas in the Webber trade, signing Reef after New Jersey balked due to his apparent knee issues, the Luxury Tax might be their, "price to pay" after making some questionable decisions IF the move from mediocrity needs to start NOW and not LATER (2009, 2010, 2020, etc).  Its basically their team and their call. Lets hope they make the right choice.  Attendance issues, New Arena issues, having the building blocks in place to lure future free agents to SacTown are all at stake.

by ridnour8 on Feb 21, 2008 5:09 PM PST   0 recs

It's not about the luxury tax
It's about the salary cap. Regardless of what the Maloofs are willing to pay, there are NBA rules that restrict signing free agents when their salaries take you over the SALARY CAP.
TickTickTickTickTickTick

by LeaguePassAddict on Feb 21, 2008 5:44 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

I think you are wrong
not in the wording of your post, but in your implication that resigning Artest means we can't sign Beno. If we resign Artest 1st, using his Bird rights to move us over the cap, we can then sign Beno for up to the MLE. But that would likely put us over the tax threshold. Thus making that scenario very unlikely.

by Kfan in Korea on Feb 21, 2008 5:52 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

It could happen that way
And then how do we extend Garcia's contract? How do we keep Shelden Williams? How do we upgrade at the PF position?

Keeping Artest in no way makes us better next year than we are this year. And it could make us worse.

TickTickTickTickTickTick

by LeaguePassAddict on Feb 21, 2008 5:58 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

I don't disagree with the crap situation we're in
Just, the original poster said we may have to pay tax, and you responded that we wouldn't have a PG. I was just saying that if paying tax were not an issue, we could keep both. Also extending Garcia and SWill would also be possible using their Bird rights(and these increases wouldn't affect next year's cap anyway. Just like Kmart's extension last summer doesn't impact us until next year).

That being said, I'm as perplexed as anyone here. I'd much rather have a pick and expiring deals right now, than 3 months of Ron and then watch him walk. And I don't think there's a chance in hell we'll be paying luxury tax within the next couple years.

by Kfan in Korea on Feb 21, 2008 6:14 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Yes
One Ron-Ron is better than both Beno and Garcia.  They're nice players, but they're essentially role players.  Ron is a gamechanger at both ends.  Unless you're getting something as good in a sign-and-trade, resigning is the best option.  Sacramento is good for Ron, and he's good for us.  I'm trying to be inspirational over here.  The only other option is to get really, really excited about 2010-11, and I'm just not there yet.
Visit sunny and beautiful Movie City USA.

by DB on Feb 21, 2008 5:12 PM PST   0 recs

Then who is your freaking point guard?
That's the point! You have no point guard in this scenario. Do you think Ron is so good he plays the point? Or Douby as a starting PG? You don't even have Johnson or Lue because they are gone at the end of the season.

by SavageBeast on Feb 21, 2008 5:17 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Guys
The Kigns have more talent with Ron, but they are a better, more complete team without him.
Mikki Moore in the skills challenge! - LPA

by iashwash on Feb 21, 2008 5:20 PM PST   0 recs

maybe..
the kigns are better, but not the kings (my a$$hole comment of the day).

by kingsfaninjapan on Feb 21, 2008 5:22 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

maybe I'd accept that
If you were a Kings fan in Hawaii rather than a fan of the King in Hawaii.

You're on the wrong message board, bud, Kamehameha has some fansites elsewhere. I may slip up a post, but you permanently screwed your login!

Hand played, biatch!

Mikki Moore in the skills challenge! - LPA

by iashwash on Feb 21, 2008 5:29 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

nice one
but i'm only a fan of artest's, and that's why i'm a kingfaninhawaii! i do enjoy watching the kings though.

by kingsfaninjapan on Feb 21, 2008 5:38 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

oops
artest's=artest

by kingsfaninjapan on Feb 21, 2008 5:39 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

If you're an Artest fan
Then what do you care who he plays for? Why be against a trade at all?
TickTickTickTickTickTick

by LeaguePassAddict on Feb 21, 2008 5:48 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

it was just
a joke. just trying to cover up my goofy screen name! but if i were just an artest fan, i would still want him to stay with the kings so that i could watch him play when i come "vacation" home to sacramento.

by kingsfaninjapan on Feb 21, 2008 5:56 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Pffffft.
The wise man tells you Where you have fallen And where you yet may fall - Invaluable secrets! The world may hate him. But good men love him.

by Psychrates on Feb 21, 2008 7:45 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

I disagree
Ron is an offense filler.  What I mean by the is, when all other players are tired and standing around, Ron is the guy who is always willing to take the ball and do something with it.  

Ron takes a lot of heat for dominating the ball on offense but is it really his fault when the rest of the team is content to sit back and watch him?  Ron needs cutters to pass to when he draws the double team.

by KingsFan on Feb 22, 2008 10:51 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

Okay I've come up with one other scenario
How about this (unlikely but it could work.) Another team wants to sign Ron for say $10m. But they don't have the cap space. We have them sign Beno for $5m. Then we do a sign a trade for Beno plus something of value for the $5m. Maybe we get a draft pick too. That would work? Right? Right?

by SavageBeast on Feb 21, 2008 5:26 PM PST   0 recs

Well yes but
Here is what your theory is banking on. (Let me start by saying, if that happened I would be stoked).

The above requires:

  1.  the team willing to pay the most for Ron is only willing to pay 10 a year
  2.  Ron wants to play for that specific team.  If he's not getting the $ thinks he deserves (12+ a year), then he will go to the team he most wants to play with.
  3.  That specific team is then stuck in the exact salary situation described above
  4.  They have somebody we would in hte correct price range.
  5.  We'd also be looking at a 2009 or 2010 pick.

I just dont like those odds.
Wait....Why is everybody clapping? Everyone around me is clapping.... I guess I should be clapping too... GO LAKERS!!! I hate living in So Cal

by 27freethrows on Feb 21, 2008 8:25 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

if our intention is to keep ron
then we basically have no use for John Salmons, which is a little depressing considering he reached his prime for about 15-20 games this year and was putting up amazing numbers.  
  Overall my level of Kings enthusiasm plummetted after the Artest non-trade.  The thought of turning down the opportunity to have  2 first round picks (either Denver or Suns) and 2 seconds vs. having 1 first and 2 seconds sickens me.  Also, what happend to tyronne lue?  He was also too valuble to part with?

by Travis Mays Hayes on Feb 21, 2008 5:42 PM PST   0 recs

Yep
That's exactly what I was thinking.  Salmons is the odd man out.  Remember Salmons put up those numbers when Ron was out and he was starting. Can John only play well when he is a starter?  Garcia does not seem to have that quirk.  This is why I like Garcia so much more.  Also Garcia is cheaper too!

If the Kings resign Ron look for Salman's to be traded.

by KingsFan on Feb 22, 2008 10:58 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

Who is going to be able to bird on Ron?
I'm sure this will be quickly answered, but it eludes me:

If all these teams are already going to be over the cap, who is going to be able to bid on free agent Ron (be he Good Ron or Bad Ron)?

by misterbrister on Feb 21, 2008 6:25 PM PST   0 recs

I think
Charlotte, Memphis and maybe Chicago could accomodate a sign and trade contractually. I have my doubts that Paxson would take him in Chicago or that Memphis would take him after the purge they just went through. Charlotte would have to use him at the 4 as they have G-Dub and J-Rich at the wings.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Feb 21, 2008 7:15 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

I didn't write this in my blurb
but they would have to renounce Emeka Okafor to accomplish that also.
I am the stone that the builder refused I am the visual, the inspiration That made Lady Sing the Blues..I'm the spark that makes your idea bright...

by pookeyguru on Feb 21, 2008 7:31 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Reminiscent of last year with Matt Barnes
It seems like Ron's agent is telling him he's worth 12-15 mil per year longterm, but will the market bear that?  If there are only a handful of teams that are even able to sign him, and we know that some teams are just plain scared of bringing him on board, I think Sac has a decent chance of getting him for a reasonable amount.

Maybe we can circulate some Bad Ron rumors to drive down the price?  Something crazy too, like starving his dogs....

by misterbrister on Feb 21, 2008 7:50 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

No need to circulate it
It's a known issue.  I think CoolCat already brought this up.  Ron's on and off court antics do lower his value.  You can subtract about 3 mil for it.

by KingsFan on Feb 22, 2008 11:08 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

I've had some time to not jump off the tower
I'm still pissed off the Kings didn't trade Artest. I've changed my position on the Artest to Denver thing. I wonder if Denver just pulled out of the deal altogether because of ownership's reservation. Maybe Petrie isn't happy he didn't get his asking price, but if the Grizz caved on the asking price for Gasol, it's also reasonable the Kings may have to cave on the asking price for Artest.

The problem with re-signing Artest is that any deal that will cost the Kings luxury tax is un-reasonable. Meaning any big $$$ free agent puts the kings in luxury tax unless they get an expiring deal the size of whatever player the Kings could conceivably attach to Artest (like Kenny Thomas) in whatever sign & trade the Kings concoct.

The Kings can't keep Artest without losing Garcia or a bigger contract like Miller or Thomas. That's going to take time to pull off, which is something the Kings don't have if they're going to pay luxury tax. Signing Ron Artest is just going to be hard to pull off WITHOUT paying luxury tax.

Seattle might have cap space after their deal netted them some expiring contracts. But they won't have that much expiring contracts, and why would they sign Artest with Collison, Durant and Green on the roster? They already have too many F's as is. Why add another one?

Charlotte will have cap room. I guess, and this is just a guess, that they would rather have Emeka Okafor than orchestrating some complicated s&t involving Artest.

Philadelphia will have cap room. Why would they go after Artest with Iguodadala and Thaddeus Young on the roster?

In other words Ron may not opt out because it may not be beneficial for him to take 2 million less dollars to do so.

Petrie really scrwed up if he didn't take an offer of Najera Smith and a 1st rounder. If he didn't get that offer from Denver, and it's possible Denver wasn't willing to include the 1st rounder, then Petrie didn't have any real reason to Artest. He clearly had little market to deal with for the guy. Which is a telltale sign that the Kings are trying to force the market to come to them for a player that isn't coveted to that extent by other teams. Details will come to further clarify this point.

These are the players I'd like to see the Kings have next season: Martin, Salmons, Garcia, Douby, Hawes, S. Williams, and Udrih. I'm open to anybody else being dealt or let go as a Free Agent (especially Artest). That 1st round pick may net a valuable player (I still want Darrell Arthur or that type of player even with the presence of Williams) that may make the Kings productive.

Petrie fucked up big time. In not moving Artest for little value, he cost Salmons some effectiveness (and some market value perhaps) down the road. Salmons is alot easier to move, and the Kings may have to move him as a way to free up the spot for him to have a more productive spot somewhere else. Petrie fucked up, and he fucked up by not giving this young roster, with a new coach, the stability it needs to move forward. All it accomplishes by keeping Artest is keeping a touch of that instability Ron is so famous for. After several topsy turvy type of seasons it's clear this franchise needs less drama. Whether that drama came from in-fighting of Bibby/Artest, it is clear that drama came from both, and Bibby always provided a little on the side himself before Artest came, as did Artest everywhere he's been, it's un-fathomable Petrie didn't calculate the negative effect Ron will have the rest of his time here.

Petrie fucked up because I think his legacy of making great trades was at stake. He wanted to get more than anyone else thought he could around the league for Artest. So he watched every team lowball him because of THEIR fear factor. Who loses? Petrie, and the Kings. He lost this deal by not making one. As a fan I'm very disappointed in Geoff's ability to not move forward from Artest even if it cost him some of his aura around the Kings. Because even though a fire sale is tough to swallow the upcoming months may be an even worse possibility. The next 2 months is going to suck.

I am the stone that the builder refused I am the visual, the inspiration That made Lady Sing the Blues..I'm the spark that makes your idea bright...

by pookeyguru on Feb 21, 2008 6:32 PM PST   0 recs

time
will tell. that's why we continue to watch the games, right?

by kingsfaninjapan on Feb 21, 2008 7:59 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Petrie made the wrong move
That's my point.
I am the stone that the builder refused I am the visual, the inspiration That made Lady Sing the Blues..I'm the spark that makes your idea bright...

by pookeyguru on Feb 21, 2008 8:11 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

random thought
This might be crazy wishful thinking, but maybe Petrie refused to at least get pick/expiring contract for Ron because he doesn't want anyone in the league to think they can fleece him.  Therefore his position will be stronger in future dealings.

Yes, I'm reaching for straws ...

by thekangarooster on Feb 21, 2008 7:15 PM PST   0 recs

I wrote that too
I think that's definitely a part of that scenario that quite possibly factored into Petrie's decision.  I'm sure noone remembers this, but Ailene Voisin said the franchise was privately hoping Bibby would opt out last summer so they could renounce him. I'm not sure Petrie is willing to dump a player to make a change (that's clearly needed) without getting back what he deems appropriate value.
I am the stone that the builder refused I am the visual, the inspiration That made Lady Sing the Blues..I'm the spark that makes your idea bright...

by pookeyguru on Feb 21, 2008 7:33 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Hmmm,
It seems that there is good Ron and bad Ron, and there is also good Geoff (draft day!) and bad Geoff (trade deadline!).
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Feb 21, 2008 7:36 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

I dont think you're reaching
I dont think it's pride though.  It's maintaining his strength for future moves.  Reputation and known ability go along way.  

Petrie has to prove he'll honestly not do a deal and let the deadline pass, instead of caving and making a bad deal.  Now other teams cant just call his bluff in the future.  While I am pretty pissed he didnt get moved, I would have been worried if he got a non-expiring waste of 3 million and a second rounder.

Wait....Why is everybody clapping? Everyone around me is clapping.... I guess I should be clapping too... GO LAKERS!!! I hate living in So Cal

by 27freethrows on Feb 21, 2008 8:32 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

G N-T P
One would hope no trades on Draft Day accomplished that.

by NYCFan on Feb 22, 2008 6:14 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

take a deep breath
I think a sign and trade in the offseason is still possible for Artest, and if we take off down the stretch without making the playoffs maybe Ron will want to stick around. Probably not going to happen, but he seems really happy here at the moment (the key words being at the moment...)

I still would have preferred Atlanta's #1 for Artest. The Hawks aren't making the playoffs anyways, and if they do we still get a legit mid-1st pick.

by coachtheus on Feb 21, 2008 7:35 PM PST   0 recs

Ummmm
Atl's 1st round pick is going to Phoenix this year.
I am the stone that the builder refused I am the visual, the inspiration That made Lady Sing the Blues..I'm the spark that makes your idea bright...

by pookeyguru on Feb 21, 2008 7:41 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

You are correct
There were reports that PHX had an offer of their "Kurt Thomas Trade Exception" and ATL's #1 for Artest.

by smgmatt on Feb 21, 2008 9:21 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Jesus...............................
This board is gonna be whiny for a good long while.............

Looks like Ron-Ron might give us another year to mull the options.......

http://www.sacbee.com/100/story/730413.html

by Reverend John on Feb 21, 2008 7:36 PM PST   0 recs

If Ron does not opt out
we would have to go over the cap to sign Udrih.

Also, Amick refers to Ron's salary for next year as being $7.4 million, while Hoopshype has it at $8.45 million. Anyone know the right number?

SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Feb 21, 2008 7:39 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

I'd guess the 8.4 is right
just because most contracts go up each year. Don't think it really matters though, even the 7.4 when added to TZ's salary chart would put us over the cap and in position to use the MLE for Beno.

If it's the 8.4 we'd be right around 65 mil, leaving ~4 mil to sign Beno and fill out the roster while staying under the tax threshold. It'll be tight. But maybe Artest not opting out is why GP didn't blink. Interesting news.

by Kfan in Korea on Feb 21, 2008 8:09 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

no luxury tax
Because we moved Bibby and got expirings in return, we have a chance at resigning Beno and keeping Ron w/o paying the tax.  Without the Bibby trade, and Ron picking up his option, Beno would have taken us into tax territory.

by sactown on Feb 21, 2008 8:22 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Please refer
to TZ's math above. There would likely be luxury tax implications if we retain Ron and re-sign Beno.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Feb 21, 2008 8:45 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

I did, did you?
56.3 + 8.4 + MLE = somewhere around 69, the limit.

by sactown on Feb 21, 2008 8:55 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Providing
Beno settles for about $4 million and we only carry 13 players.  Awfully tight. However, if Ron is serious about not opting out does make our working number a little clearer.  I gotta tell you, though, the 6 year $52 million deal that Mo Williams signed last year does not have me brimming with confidence that we can get Beno that cheap. Different guy, but agents have a way of remembering those types of numbers when it comes time to shop their guy around.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Feb 21, 2008 9:06 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Beno would be better off
signing a 3 year MLE deal if that was the case. Name a team with available cap room that has a PG, or in need of a replacement, that could sign Beno for more? It would behoove Beno to sign a 3 year Mid Level deal like Mikki Moore did. His value will never be higher. Right now no team has bird rights (which wasn't the case with Mo Williams) for Beno.
I am the stone that the builder refused I am the visual, the inspiration That made Lady Sing the Blues..I'm the spark that makes your idea bright...

by pookeyguru on Feb 21, 2008 9:27 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

There isn't a possibility sir
It will happen, and that's true of where the Luxury tax is regardless. 69 million is a high threshold, and re-signing Artest, or even keeping him at his 8.4 means not doing something. It either means dumping Artest for little, or not re-signing Beno. Petrie put off a major deal because the deal's out there weren't up to his "snuff". I'm calling bullshit on that myself. It's time Petrie lived with a less than perfect trade.
I am the stone that the builder refused I am the visual, the inspiration That made Lady Sing the Blues..I'm the spark that makes your idea bright...

by pookeyguru on Feb 21, 2008 9:06 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

my take is...
It's easy to criticize and second guess, and that's part of the fun, but obviously we're all pretty much guessing shit here. We're not privy to the details of negotiations between the various potential suitors of Ron Ron, and there's a lot of speculation going on.

OK, I know you had a lot of hope invested in sending Ron Ron on his way, Pookey. I wanted to see Artest moved too. I get it that he's too much of a wildcard to bank the future of the team on. But to point your finger and say  "Petrie fucked up big time" and imply that his ego got in the way of his making a deal is unsubstantiated and frankly, over the top.

First of all, it sounds as though there might be a serious rift in the Denver organization, and reports certainly seem to point to Nuggets owner Stan Kroenke stepping in to nix any deal involving Kleiza because of his son's friendship with Linas. In other words, Geoff wasn't dealing with a team making it's decisions completely rationally, nor even with a GM who could pull the trigger, even if he wanted to (which seemingly he did).

In any case, the consensus is that the proposed Linas/Nareja deal was sound from the perspective of Denver, and Nuggets fans are fuming about this a lot more than we are.

http://boardreader.com/tp/Stan+Kroenke.html

Secondly, here's a crucial point to keep in mind: An NBA GM isn't proposing these deals in a vacuum, or on a one-time-only basis. The guys you negotiate at the trade deadline are gonna be the same guys you deal with in the off-season and next year too. So, if you're Geoff petrie and you cave and agree to what amounts to basically a crappy, one-sided, deal because it's the only one you could get at the time, those other GM's are gonna keep low-balling you, expecting you to blink. You soon become a Billy King or an Isaiah Thomas, a guppy being circled by sharks.

We all know Petrie wanted to move Artest, and that he tried hard to move Artest, but he wasn't gonna get taken to the damn cleaners just to make it happen. It's not about ego, it's about keeping your integrity and looking at this in the long term.

"When the Going Gets Weird, the Weird Turn Pro." (Hunter S Thompson)

by Mucho Moss on Feb 21, 2008 7:59 PM PST   0 recs

FANTASTIC post
The part about the Nuggest owner being involved is crazy.  If thats true, Carmelo is going to be pissed.

I pretty much wrote the same thing as you about Petire proving he has a spine.  You're right on.

Wait....Why is everybody clapping? Everyone around me is clapping.... I guess I should be clapping too... GO LAKERS!!! I hate living in So Cal

by 27freethrows on Feb 21, 2008 8:40 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Denver Rift Over Kleiza
It does sound like there was a rift within Denver's organization over whether or not to trade Kleiza to Sacramento for Artest, but Denver would have traded their first round pick and expiring contracts to get Artest and Sacramento should have done that deal over no deal.  

PookeyGuru's point holds that even if Petrie could not get Kleiza he should have gotten something for Artest.  Maybe he still can as part of a sign and trade, but part of the lure of Artest at the trade deadline was that he would not be around long term to go crazy and ruin any chemistry your team has.  

Petrie was right to try to hold out for Kleiza, but once he realized he was not going to get him I think he neededs to pull the trigger on whatever he can get.  

Sure it would have been obvious that he was the one that blinked, but all the other GMs would have realized that Denver had the leverage and Petrie had no choice but to cave in order to get something for Ron.

Pickaxe and Roll - an SB Nation Denver Nuggets Blog

by Jeremy on Feb 21, 2008 10:21 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Jeremy you're a quality guy
but taking my side isn't going to win brownie points for you over here. That being said some other things to add on.

Assuming Artest doesn't opt out, which is of course a natural assumption at this point given how the trade offers for him went, that puts the Kings in a luxury tax bind to keep Beno Udrih. If you asked me a week ago if trading Ron Artest for expiring deals and a 1st round pick was worth it I would have said yes. If only because paying luxury tax is an option for a 50 win team, but not for an underachieving team that probably won't reach 500 for this season.

Oh, and also, I need to read your blog more often. I've enjoyed what I've read so far.

I am the stone that the builder refused I am the visual, the inspiration That made Lady Sing the Blues..I'm the spark that makes your idea bright...

by pookeyguru on Feb 21, 2008 10:55 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

I don't think either GM
Comes out looking good here. Petrie may end up holding the bag on Artest in the summer, and Denver (when is the last time this team won anything substantial?) did nothing to really boost their playoff chances.
Mikki Moore - WNBA Hair, WNBA Body, WNBA Talent

by otis29 on Feb 22, 2008 4:41 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

Isn't only the 1st year of Moore's contract
guaranteed? So couldn't we not pick up his option/renounce him and then have the full MLE for Beno. If needed. Moore could be expendable with Miller/SWill/Hawes/#1 PF/Reef/Artest, available at the 4-5.

by Kfan in Korea on Feb 21, 2008 9:08 PM PST