My Sentiments Exactly

by Ziller on Feb 28, 2008 3:39 PM PST in Links Comment 39 comments

I wish I could have been coherent enough over the past week to write exactly what Mike Moreau wrote over at HOOPSWORLD. Anyone not playing the contrarian card for attention's sake can at least agree with the theory.

(Which is to say I do not anticipate everyone sharing the sentiment. Because Ron has caused some people to lose touch with Planet Earth.)

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Great

article. Quick/easy to read and straight to the point!

Is this guy based out of Sac? Or has this secret little Sactown mystery made its way across the nation?

by Hoops916 on Feb 28, 2008 3:47 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

He's in Florida

...

by Ziller on Feb 28, 2008 3:53 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Agreed

Interesting article, and food for thought. Although the author could have laid a bit of the blame at Kevin's feet - if he isn't going to be vocal enough about getting his shots, how can we expect him to ever meet his substantial potential?

Not saying he should be screaming at Theus or refusing to leave the court, but a little more egotism on Kev's part wouldn't hurt.

Mikki Moore - WNBA Hair, WNBA Body, WNBA Talent

by otis29 on Feb 28, 2008 3:55 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

well

Maybe things would be better if Kevin was more assertive, but that's besides the point. Kevin should not have to do that. It's the responsibility of the coaching staff to figure out how to best use the tools they have to win games. If they can't see that Kevin should be their bread and butter tool, then something is wrong with them.

by thekangarooster on Feb 28, 2008 5:54 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Sure

And Reggie said as much (that the coaches have to do a better job getting him involved) on a KHTK interview this evening. It was nice to hear coming from Reggie, who doesn't go that route very often.

Regardless, Kevin is and will always be a very good NBA player. I think it's up to Kevin to determine if he's going to be an elite player though, and that will take a bit of a different mindset.

Mikki Moore - WNBA Hair, WNBA Body, WNBA Talent

by otis29 on Feb 28, 2008 7:17 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

agree

Otis and DB (below) are both correct: Martin doesn't have that burning desire to dominate the ball when it is necessary. He also does not possess that certain something that makes other players look to him for leadership. Kevin may develop these qualities, but I've never seen them in him - and it's one of the reasons he's never been one of my favorites players depsite being an amazing scorer and perfect gentleman on and off the court.

Sure the coaches can have some impact, but any of us who have ever played sports at a highly competitive level know that some men just have a way of exuding leadership and inspiring confidence. Kevin does not do that - yet. I hope for the Kings' sake that he does in the future. The guy has the tools.

by Kusian on Feb 28, 2008 6:34 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

He's Kevin Martin's trainer.

Sacramento's Online Hip Hop Community www.watchworldwide.net

by stankpalmer on Feb 28, 2008 6:08 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

David Thorpe

of Pro Training Center in Bradenton, Fl. is Kevin's personal trainer. But Mike Moreau is the director of IMG and David Thorpe's boss.

God bless you, Corliss. You always played as though you knew how expensive my tickets were. -section214

by KK on Feb 28, 2008 8:49 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Society as a whole.

Is like this... Kevin Martin is the quiet productive worker, however, the person sitting right next to him is loud, obnoxious, complains about how much he has to do and as a result gets employee of the month. Thats how the State of California decides, so its fitting that that's the way it works on the kings as well.

You need to do what Otis says and be vocal enough to let everyone know what you're doing, but not so loud to become a distraction.

by moproblemz on Feb 28, 2008 4:14 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Martin is very good but not an all-star yet.

I have to come to Reggies' defense here. The Kings have just finished a relatively easy portion of the schedule and Kevin has not played well during most of the games (maybe 6 - 7 games.) Mike Moreau painted a glowing picture. I'm a bit curious to know whether he is associated with the same training firm which employs David Thorpe, Kevin's personal coach.

Of the players who play the most minutes, Garcia, Miller, Artest, moore, Udrih and Salmons have feld goal percentages higher than Martin at this time.

I suspect that Reggie likes to have the best defenders in the game during the latter part of the fourth quarter. Kevin is an average defender at best and I'm not convinced that he is at his best when the game is on the line.

by aspen on Feb 28, 2008 4:49 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

I agree with some of that...

But not the last part.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=pauKlO9NH-8

http://youtube.com/watch?v=2FegVx5ZvZw

"Yankees Giants Giants Yankees Giants Giants Giants. Yankees."

by Grant Napears Taint on Feb 28, 2008 5:02 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Moreau Runs Kevin's former academy

From the bottom of the story:

Mike Moreau is the Director of Basketball at IMG Academies in Bradenton, FL - home of The Basketball Academy and the Pro Training Center. Mike has worked with NBA stars such as Kevin Martin, Jared Jefferies, Chauncey Billups and dozens of others, and is in his first year contributing to HOOPSWORLD and HOOPSWORLD Magazine.

There's that Jared Jeffries connection. Remember there was some article a while back that had Kevin wanting to trade Artest for Jeffries.

It looks like Kevin is not above playing a little hardball here. Then again, if he's whining to his folks and they are stirring it up on his behalf, he comes off a little like Salmons.

What a soap opera this team is becoming.

Disclaimer: This post may be a complete and utter waste of your valuable time.

by coolcatreportdotcom on Feb 28, 2008 5:11 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

In defense of Salmons...

he has been a professional in dealing with his demotion. I am as frustrated with his play off the bench as any fan but I think the real question I would like to ask you (CoolCat) as an Artest fan which would you prefer; Artest and a less effective Kevin Martin and a totally ineffective John Salmons or Kevin martin as the star of the Kings, John Salmons averaging over 20 a game and playing stellar all around ball with Artest playing for someone else? Before you answer take in to consideration the level of professionalism that both Martin and Salmons have shown versus what we have seen from Mr. Kraft.

StR- Where Pookey is long, Otis is short and Section brings down the house.

by jjham15 on Feb 28, 2008 5:44 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I'd prefer

to just let the team play through this slump and work everything out.

Sounds like you want to choose two of the three players: Artest, Martin and Salmons. If that's the choice, I'll take Artest and Martin.

Statistically speaking Martin scores slightly less with Artest, but wins more. When Salmons was scoring more, the team wasn't as successful.

I don't know what the future holds for John Salmons, with or without Artest, with or without the Kings. Maybe you're right, that he can return to "averaging over 20 a game and playing stellar all-around ball," and it's all Artest's fault that he has suddenly turned into a 1-2 basket a game guy.

Frankly I doubt it, and I don't have any qualms about Salmons moving on. I think it's on him to suck it up and help the team in whatever way he can. Period.

Face it, when Amick quotes "sources within the team" for his tawdry little tales, he might as well just say he got the BS from Salmons. He has the most to gain if Artest is ushered out of town.

Sorry, I'm just not interested in having guys "try their best" and the team still losing 50-55 games every year. That's what I think you have if Salmons is one of your main go-to guys.

Martin? It's interesting this little article he and his pals have cooked up is more of a hit piece on Theus rather than Artest. Real interesting. Kevin Martin, come on down! Let's see how much juice you have to run Reggie out of town.

What bugs me about Kevin outside of his inability to make a difference offensively when the game is on the line is his defense. To me, defense is talent plus attitude. It seems to me he has the physical tools to be a good defender, and I don't ever remember him being this bad on D before this season. Does he think he's too much of a star offensively to have to put out on D? I just don't get it.

Of course, these are just my opinions and you are welcome to yours. I hope things work out for the Kings, with or without Artest and with or without Salmons.

Disclaimer: This post may be a complete and utter waste of your valuable time.

by coolcatreportdotcom on Feb 29, 2008 12:38 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Peja II

This is Peja v. Webber all over again. You'll recall that everyone argued Peja's confidence was affected by C-Webb's shadow, and that once Webber was shipped off, this utterly passive player would be emboldened to take over the team. It didn't work then and it won't work now. Like Peja, Martin is either going to be the first or second best player on a lousy team or a role player on a great team. He's an awesome scorer, but if he hasn't got the stomach for dealing with personalities and delivering in crunch time, he will never be a great player.

Visit sunny and beautiful Movie City USA.

by DB on Feb 28, 2008 5:43 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Your argument has merit

I don't think we need Kevin to be "the man" though. We do however need a "man" that's not F-ing crazy.

I could see Kevin filling a role on the kings like Manu Ginobili on the spurs. We just need a Tim Duncan ...

by thekangarooster on Feb 28, 2008 5:59 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I understand your analogy but...

Webber was a much better player than Artest is and Martin is way more versatile than Peja. Martin could easily take the step to super star status if he is given the chance to be the first option. Martin is also built for long term success, Peja is a great pure shooter but not much of an athlete. Similar to Miller and Bibby, Peja was a perfect fit for the team Petrie had assembled. Same can be said for Peja's current team, strong post players, nice point and a defensive 2.

I just listen to Rex Kalamian, one of the Kings assistant being interviewed by Koz and he said the Kings don't really run plays for Martin which I think is ridiculous. I understand that Martin can get his points off of kick outs and breaks but he should be taking 18-20 shots a game, half of those coming out of play sets. I look forward to the Martin era as a fan, I also remember the Richmond era very well and the Kings have a lot of work to do if they want to avoid the frustration of a one player team. Hopefully the draft will be nicer this time around.

StR- Where Pookey is long, Otis is short and Section brings down the house.

by jjham15 on Feb 28, 2008 9:11 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

the draft?

What the hell are you talking about? The Kings got a nice pick last year. He'll be scoring 20 pts a game in a year or two.

by Kusian on Feb 29, 2008 1:08 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

if hawes get himself some muscles

and some defense improvements he can be our Tim Duncan.

Martin, for the win!!!

by Kjack on Feb 29, 2008 6:33 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

now that might be

just a bit optimistic, but I like your enthusiasm.

I don't think, personally, he has the physical tools to ever be a Duncan on the defensive side. But, who knows, he may really fill out. I do think that he's going to be a good scorer of the ball.

by Kusian on Feb 29, 2008 8:52 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Already Is

Spencer is already a very good scorer. He averaged 18 ppg per 40 minutes in Janaury and 19 ppg in February. He will be a very good scorer once he learns to speed up his footwork and decision making in the post. His main problem when he posts up is he tries to do too many fakes which gives the help defense time to tie him up and strip the ball away. With more time in the league and improved footwork he will be a huge handfull on the block.

He can shoot, and he looks great in a suit. Hey, everybody - It's REGGIE TIME!

by dalt99 on Feb 29, 2008 9:33 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

You

Must be smokin that "good stuff" if you can honestly look yourself in the mirror and say that Hawes can EVER become anything close to "our" Duncan!!

by Hoops916 on Mar 1, 2008 1:49 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Draft coment in reference to the Richmond era.

StR- Where Pookey is long, Otis is short and Section brings down the house.

by jjham15 on Feb 29, 2008 10:49 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I second

the motion to go out and get our very own Tim Duncan!

Unfortunately the way that's done is usually by losing about 60 times in a season and then having a ping pong ball bounce your way.

Man, it could get nasty around here if we were in the middle of that kind of meltdown...

"When the Going Gets Weird, the Weird Turn Pro." (Hunter S Thompson)

by Mucho Moss on Feb 29, 2008 12:52 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Artest to blame?

I make no attempt to hide my belief in Artest and his importance to this team. That said, only someone with a grudge against him already would try to draw a connection between Martin's lacking qualities and Artest. If anything, I've seen a more aggressive offense and more consistent defense from Martin since Artest has been here. Yeah, Artest gets roudy and sometimes says some things that make me cringe, but he does it because he CARES who wins, and it PISSES HIM OFF when he loses. I said THANK GOD!!! Maybe if some of that can rub off on Martin we'll be ready to play respectable ball again. And if it does rub off on Martin, I would have no problem cutting ties with Artest. But damn it, someone other than Artest has to give enough of a sh!t to get angry and say something.

by PissedOffGorilla on Feb 28, 2008 7:02 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

LISTEN !!!

Ron has been playing consistent throughout the bibby trade. I know on occasion he takes the bad (falling to the left jumper) but he has been consistent. Martin hasn't been playing good period... we dont have a real back up PG and you cant expect beno to be great every night. The coach has been playing the rookies way too much and needs to give GARCIA AND SALMONS more playing time !!!!! So its not just one person to blame.

GO KINGS !!!

by maiku on Feb 28, 2008 8:01 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

wow.....

could this mean that mike bibby really was that important to the team?

Whether your dominating the playground, the last one to leave the gym, or your big time like Mike Bibby...

by CrownUs93 on Feb 28, 2008 8:22 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

No

Actually, no, he wasn't and is not. Beno has outplayed him the entire year. Hell, Bibby's last game was outstanding and Beno was still just about as good.

Here is the reality: Beno and is better than Bibby for this team.

p.s. I'll give Mike credit though for the other night: when was the last time you saw that guy get 12 assists. He had a very, very nice game.

by Kusian on Feb 28, 2008 8:35 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

yeah

i don't mean important in a playing sense, i just see ron as fredo, kevin as sonny, and mike was michael corleone communicating everything between them and the boss most efficiently. was mike really a that much of a leader on the team?

we all know beno played better, but did bibby have a big part in the leadership and unifying aspect of the team, thats all i'm trying to say

Whether your dominating the playground, the last one to leave the gym, or your big time like Mike Bibby...

by CrownUs93 on Feb 28, 2008 9:07 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I get the feeling that Bibby's influence...

was felt behind closed doors. Ron looks like he has no one to answer to at this point in time. Those first few games after the trade Artest looked unstoppable and now he looks like he is uncoachable. Bibby's presence seem to give Theus an ally and I'm starting to wonder if this team doesn't have a major personality issue in the locker room. I could see a couple of factions within the team and certainly a schism between Artest and Theus.

StR- Where Pookey is long, Otis is short and Section brings down the house.

by jjham15 on Feb 28, 2008 9:23 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

This is another argument against Artest

Unfortunately Kevin isn't helping himself with being flat out off lately.

I'm not sure Reggie can do anything right. Petrie put him in this position, of course outside of Reggie hiring on to coach this team, by not trading Artest at the deadline. There's just no good way to say the situation sucks. I don't exactly agree with Morneau's position that Theus deserves the lion share of the blame. I've said this many times before: I think Geoff Petrie and Ron Artest deserve the lion share of blame for this.

As far as Kevin Martin and Reggie Theus it's hard to know how things will work out with Reggie spending so much time having to appease Artest. Reggie was in a no-win situation with Artest around. Now Martin's struggles are going to bring even more light onto why NOT trading Artest was such a fundamentally wrong decision on Petrie's part. I don't know if Kevin's struggles are because of Ron (I highly doubt it). I know Kevin's struggles are in part because of his reluctance to demand the ball.

What I do know, as of today, that the situation surrounding this team is so murky that any gains that were made in the 1st half of the season were destroyed by a petty egotistical decision to demand "higher" value for a tainted asset.

I am the stone that the builder refused I am the visual, the inspiration That made Lady Sing the Blues..I'm the spark that makes your idea bright...

by pookeyguru on Feb 28, 2008 9:45 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

I really does not matter

It seems the more minutes Kevin gets the less productive he becomes. I think a better solution is to start Salmons at the two and have Kevin come in off the bench like Jason Terry. That in my opinion would fix both players.

by KingsFan on Feb 29, 2008 7:49 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

As long as...

... Martin gets 35 minutes, I wouldn't be opposed to this arrangement.

Of course, I don't see Salmons improving so long as Artest controls the offense. The offense needs to go through Brad.

by Ziller on Feb 29, 2008 7:58 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I've proposed this before as well

Based on how Kevin played off the bench in his first two games back from injury. Lots of energy. He may be more effective playing 30 minutes a game than 35-40. It seems like he is pacing himself to last games. Screw that. Play balls out while you're on the court.

Disclaimer: This post may be a complete and utter waste of your valuable time.

by coolcatreportdotcom on Feb 29, 2008 8:33 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

What kills me about the Kings

Is other teams star players seem to always get there guys shots at meaningful times against the Kings, but the Kings seem incapable when they need to score or get a good shot.

Maybe Martin isn't that ego strong guy who has to demand the ball and hoist shots, will he or the coaching staff ever find a way for him to get more shots.

Sadly Rons act of late really shows he is a lost cause, all the talent in the world but he won't/can't listen to anyone or thinks he is above reproach. I suspect Bibby had a similar mindset about the latter and thats another reason I think they were pleased to see him leave

by Murf on Feb 29, 2008 8:23 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

It's all about having a floor general

who gives the ball to the hot hand. For whetever reason we don't have that. I listened to Deron Williams talk about constantly feeding the Mehmet when he was hot the other night. We almost never do that. Blame Udrih for not being a true PG, blame Ron from demanding the ball, blame Theus for not having the guts to get it done. But we don't do enough set plays for the guys who are hot that night.

The only exception to that I see, is when Ron is abusing the team down low, he takes the ball in every time. But maybe that's just because he can demand the ball and no one else can. I don't know, but it sure seems like our coaches should.

by SavageBeast on Feb 29, 2008 9:10 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs