Is Beno a top 10 PG?

by kingsfaninjapan on Mar 14, 2008 5:47 PM PDT Comment 43 comments

Now I know some of you guys might have read the title of this diary and flipped out. But have you ever looked at Beno's numbers if you take away the 15 games that Bibby played in? The ranks below are among PGs. And I'll start off with the one that shocked me the most. Beno's minutes (minus Bibby games) are at 37.9 MPG. This is good for #2 in the NBA, right behind Baron Davis. Now for the rest:

15.1 PPG (#8)
5.4 APG (#16)
3.8 RPG (#6)
1.1 SPG (T-14)
2.6 TO (#24)
2.0 AST/TO (#39)
46% FG (#9)
39% 3PT FG (#8)
85% FT (#9)

His assist to turnover ratio could be a lot better. I'll blame that on inexperience. The guy started 6 games in his first 3 years in the NBA. Now he's number 2 in MPG for PGs. So I would like to think (hope) that this will improve over time. Besides the TOs and AST/TO ratio, the dude is pretty nice. I think I would have to put him right at about #10 for PGs in the NBA. So fire away my fellow Royalty. Agreements? Disagreements? I just always wondered what his numbers could theoretically be and it ended up turning into this diary.

(This is a FanPost from a member of the Sactown Royalty community. The views expressed come from the member, and not Sactown Royalty staff.)

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Top 10? Not yet

I think the assist to turnover ratio needs improving, as does his consistency. His defense is better than I expected, but still needs to improve as well.

But I think there is a ton of potential in his game, and I absolutely love watching a more traditional point guard. He's pretty fearless going to the basket, he's got a nice outside shot and it looks to me like he's starting to figure out Theus' offense.

The guy is definitely a keeper. If the Kings can sign him long-term and get a decent backup PG, they won't have to worry about the 1-3 positions for the next 5 years.

Pau Gasol - serial killer or drunkard?

by otis29 on Mar 14, 2008 6:26 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Big help!

Thanks for posting these numbers/rankings. I've been trying to tell my friends (especially my two Spurs buddies) how good Beno has been this year but they laugh it off as homerism. Until reading this I understood where they were coming from, but as Rasheed likes to say "ball don't lie!" I don't know that he's quite top 10 yet, but this shows that by this time next year he should be.

My quick rankings:
Orien Greene (a given), Paul, Chauncey, Nash, D. Williams, Davis, Parker, Kidd, A. Miller, D. Harris, Caulderon; with Udrih juuuust outside this list with Ford, Cassell, and Mo Williams.

by RockRichmond on Mar 14, 2008 6:59 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Perspective

I kind of see Beno as playing his rookie year right now, and what he is doing as "rookie" point guard is outstanding. Not as good as Paul's rookie year, on a par with D. Williams', better than Felton's.

My excitement over Beno has more to do with the player that he may still become, not the player that he currently is (which I like too, by the way).

SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Mar 14, 2008 10:26 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

it might sound crazy

but i see some nashness in him. fearless around the basket, good 3 pt. shooter, finds his teammates.

...an easy slam dunk layup. -clippers announcer

by kingsfaninjapan on Mar 14, 2008 10:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Udrih and Nash

Nash's career started to take off in his 5th year, at age 26. Next year will be Beno's 5th year. He'll be 26.

SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Mar 14, 2008 10:38 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Beno could be!

Beno has the potential to be my ideal point guard. I love a quick PG who can drive like mad to the basket and score. I've watched him pull off some Iverson-esque shots. Not as many as the Iverson himself, but he's made some pretty sick ones. Eventually defenses are gonna focus more on him when he drives to the paint. But, I think he has the passing ability to kick it out to an open man. This passing ability is good on the pick and roll as well. He definitely has the potential for greatness. I hope that if we resign him he'll take a leadership role on the floor. I think he's smart enough to know that he needs to get Kevin really involved in the offense, and he's good enough to do it too.

by vfettke on Mar 15, 2008 12:11 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Beno is a PURE-PG

He is a penetrate pass first shoot later PG. I want him back next season !!!

GO KINGS !!!

by maiku on Mar 15, 2008 1:03 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Magic & Larry led the NBA in Turnovers

their first 4 years in the League. Ask me how times they won championships in that span? No, really ask me. I think individual turnovers are overrated personally.

I am the stone that the builder refused I am the visual, the inspiration That made Lady Sing the Blues..I'm the spark that makes your idea bright...

by pookeyguru on Mar 15, 2008 1:54 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

yeah

i totally agree. stars have the ball in their hand so much, that they're gonna be in the top rankings consistently. nash, d. willaims and lebron are in the top 3. the other 2 are wade and kidd, so yes this stat is totally overrated. it would be nice to see turnovers broken down into errant passes, picked pockets, offensive fouls, etc.

...an easy slam dunk layup. -clippers announcer

by kingsfaninjapan on Mar 15, 2008 2:09 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Why are you posting @ 11pm your time sir?

The Bars don't close to 4pm out in the islands brudha. :)

I am the stone that the builder refused I am the visual, the inspiration That made Lady Sing the Blues..I'm the spark that makes your idea bright...

by pookeyguru on Mar 15, 2008 2:12 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

haha

i see you know your bars! it's cuz i've been goin' out almost every friday for the last year and a half! so tonight is one of those nights i take off and that makes it almost every friday night. but at the same time, 11 PM is still early, considering they close at 4 AM!

...an easy slam dunk layup. -clippers announcer

by kingsfaninjapan on Mar 15, 2008 2:22 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Couple things

I lived there for 2 1/2 years when I was in the service on Oahu. So I know my shit when it comes to the Island of the "Gathering Place." That being said you can still get your swerve on in several hours. (On the flip side it means you have to get up early as shit for games when you want to watch them. I don't think anyone around here has ever "woken up early" @ 2pm to watch a Kings game. I guarantee no one has around here, unless you qualify.)

I am the stone that the builder refused I am the visual, the inspiration That made Lady Sing the Blues..I'm the spark that makes your idea bright...

by pookeyguru on Mar 15, 2008 2:50 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Not so fast

I've "woken up early" at 7 pm to watch a Kings game. Had to set my alarm, it was nationally televised, back in the day when I couldn't illegally acquire Kigns gametime. Must-see tv for me.

Mikki Moore in the skills challenge! - LPA

by iashwash on Mar 17, 2008 4:15 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I call hogwash sir

That is entirely Bizcracky! (Early is anytime before Happy Hour sir.)

I am the stone that the builder refused I am the visual, the inspiration That made Lady Sing the Blues..I'm the spark that makes your idea bright...

by pookeyguru on Mar 17, 2008 1:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Not in Kauai

I think it's the St. Petersburg of Hawaii. :)

Pau Gasol - serial killer or drunkard?

by otis29 on Mar 15, 2008 4:30 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Damn you & your 430 am posting ability

I smite you! (I've never been to Kauai though so I'll take your word for it.)

I am the stone that the builder refused I am the visual, the inspiration That made Lady Sing the Blues..I'm the spark that makes your idea bright...

by pookeyguru on Mar 15, 2008 4:53 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Insomnia FTW!!

Actually the southern portion of Kauai (Poipu, Lihue) is a bit more active than the north (Princeville, Hanalei). I stayed in the north part, and most of the bars were closed by 10. Tragic, I tell ya.

Pau Gasol - serial killer or drunkard?

by otis29 on Mar 15, 2008 6:42 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Absolutely not

Players that are better than him (in no specific order)

Kidd
Nash
Paul
D.Williams
Parker
Iverson
Billips
Arenas
A. Miller
B. Davis

and then there are guys like

Forderon
M. Williams
Felton
D. Harris
Hinrich
Foye
Ellis
Barbosa
etc.

That being said, I think he's going to be our PG of the future. So how much do you think would he earn?

by kingme on Mar 15, 2008 8:49 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Beno's $$$

I think that someone will offer him a full MLE (3 years at $6 million per). I base that on the musings of this young genius.

SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Mar 15, 2008 9:19 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

yeah

Well, two things going for us

Calderon is also in the market
Beno seems to like it here. Hey if we gave Mikki Moore and Salmons the MLE then we should defnitely offer Beno a fair contract. I don't think we've ever gave players low-ball offers

by kingme on Mar 15, 2008 10:14 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I forgot about

Arenas. Although he is asking for the max. LOL @ him berating young players for not accepting what was offered to them and at the same time demanding for a max contract when he was injured for most of the year. The sad part is, he's on my fantasy team >=/

by kingme on Mar 15, 2008 10:17 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

yeah, but

all these guys have way more starts under there belt as of today. i'm just saying how much he's done in the little time he's had of quarterbacking a team. and for what it's worth (not much) i don't consider barbosa or ellis as pgs.

...an easy slam dunk layup. -clippers announcer

by kingsfaninjapan on Mar 15, 2008 12:26 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Point taken

Btw, I don't consider Monta and Barbosa as PGs either but they are damn good. As of late, I'm really frustrated with Kevin. He's taller and better than Monta. I bet he would have thrived in Nellie's run and gun system. Why in the world is he not playing? I wonder if Monta could have posted the same stats if he played for us. My guess is No

by kingme on Mar 15, 2008 12:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Inconsistency

He's just not consistent enough yet to be considered. His 2 assists against the Suns the other night is simply not acceptable for an NBA point guard.

Obviously he's inexperienced and the sample size is much too small, but a good case in point is his performances against the Lakers. First game, which they lost - a measly 3 assists. Second game, a victory - 10.

The Kings need a distributer - not a Bibby wannabe.

by thelettere on Mar 16, 2008 7:11 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

First half against the Raptors:

2 assists, 4 turnovers.

Ouch.

by thelettere on Mar 16, 2008 7:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Not to boost Coolcat's points or anything

but I agree with you on this. This is what Beno needs to "get" to the next level.

Since the real question of money is going to come up (especially since the Kings can only offer the MLE) what is Beno's actual value worth to the Kings relative to anyone else? That's a story worth watching in my view.

I am the stone that the builder refused I am the visual, the inspiration That made Lady Sing the Blues..I'm the spark that makes your idea bright...

by pookeyguru on Mar 17, 2008 2:48 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Beno Compared

Ideally Beno would become a pass AND score point guard, not a score-first point guard who is below average in assists compared to the top of the class.

There are 19 point guards who have played at least 50 games and averaged at least 27 minutes a game this season. Just to be part of that list is a solid accomplishment for Beno.

Beno ranks 18th of the 19 in assists per 48 with 6.6 per 48 minutes. Steve Nash ranks 1st with 15.8 per 48 minutes.

Beno ranks 9th of the 19 in scoring with 19 points per 48 minutes. Chris Paul ranks first with 27.2 points per 48 minutes.

If you combine the ranks in the two categories and use assist rank as a tiebreaker, Beno ranks 14th of the 19 point guards.

Considering where he started the season, this is one hell of an accomplishment.

Here are the rankings:

Chris Paul, NOR
Steve Nash, PHO
Deron Williams, UTH
Chauncey Billups, DET
Baron Davis, GSW
Jose Calderon, TOR
Andre Miller, PHI
Mo Williams, MIL
Jason Kidd, DAL/NJN
Earl Watson, SEA
Raymond Felton, CHA
Kirk Hinrich, CHI
Rafer Alston, HOU
Beno Udrih, SAC
Derek Fisher, LAL
Sebastian Telfair, MIN
Rajon Rondo, BOS
Jason Williams, MIA
Steve Blake, POR

Disclaimer: This post may be a complete and utter waste of your valuable time.

by coolcatreportdotcom on Mar 17, 2008 8:17 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Beno's Post-Bibby Trade Numbers

In the 15 games since Mike Bibby was traded, Beno has averaged 37.9 minutes, 15.93 points and 6.2 assists per game.

On a per 48 basis, his numbers have increased to 20.2 points and 7.9 assists.

Using the same approach as above and projecting those numbers over a full season, he would rise to a tie for 14th in assists, remain 9th in scoring and move up one spot overall to rank 13th.

Next question: how much will it cost to resign the 13th best point guard in the NBA?

Disclaimer: This post may be a complete and utter waste of your valuable time.

by coolcatreportdotcom on Mar 17, 2008 8:50 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

The cost of Beno

A full MLE, in my opinion. Whether or not that is a fair price, it should be the market price. Right off the top of my head, I would think that Washington would offer that should Arenas leave after opting out, Portland might like him to run their team, the Clips would have interest if Livingston is not 100% (and I think they have to make a qualifying offer to him), Denver and Houston could both use him...there are probably others.

SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Mar 17, 2008 9:16 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Ooops

I'm going to need to rework those numbers as I left out some players who met both the 50 games/27 minutes standards: Anthony Carter, Antonio Daniels, Jameer Nelson and a guy named Tony Parker.

You also have Daniel Gibson and Devin Harris (both 48 games) plus Arenas, Bibby, Tinsley and T.J. Ford to throw into the mix. And I probably still forgot someone.

Disclaimer: This post may be a complete and utter waste of your valuable time.

by coolcatreportdotcom on Mar 17, 2008 9:25 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

another angle

hi, I am new, and I am from Slovenia. So, I just wanted to say, that (generally) for Slovenians it is very important if they feel in their new work environment as a in new home. As far as I can see, Beno Udrih, feels in Sac at home (and must, after some games, feel like a king of the hill). I cannot predict the results of players' market frenzy after the season, but, what I can say, with assurance, is, that the opportunity that the Kings gave to Beno and the reception of the fans, will count. Beno has been a professional basket player since he was 16. He knows, from experience and from info, where his chances are the best. So, to end my, a bit pontificating first post, if all of the conditions are even/equal, or at least near it, there is a good chance, that the open embrace of the fans and the big risk of the GM and coach, to start him, will pay off in a new contract for Kings. Well, we will see :-))

by Lyublyanchan on Mar 17, 2008 11:23 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Whoa

Let's calm down a little bit. Is he better than we ever hoped he would be for us? Absolutely. But Top 10 PG? Let's delve a little further.

When I think of a point guard, I think of passing. This probably stems from my rec-league antics as a kid who was short and couldn't shoot to save his life. So I played point guard and was asked to pass early and often. Regardless of the reason, passing is what I think of. While I think the TO/AST ratio is overrated, I still think the assist number on its own is far too low. Especially when you consider that he should be able to drive and kick out to K-Mart on a regular basis.

In Geoff we trust...

by Exhibit G on Mar 17, 2008 11:49 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

the offense

jason williams was the last king to average over 7 assists, and that was during the 1999-2000 season. the kings offense in the last 10 years or so has run through the bigs a lot more than teams like phoenix, NO or utah. bibby came close one year at 6.8 (04-05 season). but this obviously doesn't translate to team success.
what i see in udrih is that he has that floor general presence. he's got that unpredictability in his game that will keep a defense on it's toes. he will force you to pay attention to him. because if you don't, he'll take it to the hole. and yeah, he's still out of control at times. but not on a j-wil level.
anyways, with the development of spencer hawes, i think the offense will continue to run through a big. and finally, i think that once beno has an offseason and a preseason to learn his guys, the chemistry factor alone will improve his game. most of the top point guards have been with their team at least a few years.

...an easy slam dunk layup. -clippers announcer

by kingsfaninjapan on Mar 17, 2008 12:15 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Take a look

At the other side of the ball.

Beno is playing some pretty good D on opposing point guards, with the exception of Nash.

Ford and Calderon were a combined 6-16 for a total of 13 points. He got the ball out of their hands and they were the biggest threats. Beno scored 15.

Blake and Rodriguez were a combined 3-13 for 8 points and 6 assists. Beno scored 14 with 7 assists.

The assists/turnover problem will work itself out once he's been through a camp and is playing with the same guys. But honestly, if Martin were shooting better, his assist totals would be a lot better.

I saw a lot of posts complaining about Bibby's total lack of defense. At least Beno's not letting the other team's PG light us up.

He's doing a lot of things right, and he's emerging. Maybe not top ten yet, but give him a year when he's not learning the system on the fly and doesn't lose his starting job mid-season. I predict he'll be top ten by this time next year.

And a big welcome to our new Slovenian friend. Can we call you "Lyub" for short?

TickTickTickTickTickTick

by LeaguePassAddict on Mar 17, 2008 9:16 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

yep

just call me Lyub, no prob. Lyublyanchan means only, that i am person from the city of Ljubljana, which is the capital of Slovenia. thx for the welcome.

by Lyublyanchan on Mar 18, 2008 10:59 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Next question

How do you pronounce that?

Seriously, I love geography and maps, and that's a name I have never been able to figure out.

And are you here (US) now?

TickTickTickTickTickTick

by LeaguePassAddict on Mar 18, 2008 2:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

pronounce

its easy. the "a"s in Ljubljana, are like the "a" in Sacramento. The "j" in Slovenian is "y" in English.ž
The "u" is "oo". All other letters are pronounced the same. So, Ljubljana, phonetically in English would be Lyooblyana....
And if I am male, from Ljubljana, I am Ljubljančan.
Female would be Ljubljančanka.

thats all, not very complicating and not very unique :-)=)

by Lyublyanchan on Mar 18, 2008 7:02 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Late welcome,

but I'm glad you joined. I meant to do this a couple of days ago but got distracted.

So, because it's so hard to find stats and impressions on Euro players, have you always followed Beno's career, and if so, what can you tell us about his early pro career?

Is he living up to your expectations? Does this season begin to show you what he is capable of producing for a team?

I'm sorry if I'm badgering you with questions, I don't expect you to be a Beno expert. I'm just curious about your impressions as someone who has had a much longer look at his career.

Answer or not, as you see fit.

Once again, belated welcome to you!

To LPA: wouldn't it be easier to type if we could refer to our new Slovenian friend as LC rather than Lyuba? I know my poor carpal tunnel challenged fingers would appreciate the shortest nickname possible. (Sorry mine conflicts with shortening KillerKing's name.)

God bless you, Corliss. You always played as though you knew how expensive my tickets were. -section214

by KK on Mar 18, 2008 10:26 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

LC is ok for me, O Lazy One

And as far as KillerKing goes, that's a poster who has no time to post of late. In a play and trying to graduate has left little time for fandom.

Good questions, too. I'd like to hear those answers.

There was an interview on Kings.com with Beno that had him on 3 teams at the age of 15-16, practicing 7+ hours a day and playing 3 games on weekends. Wow. Lotta miles for a young guy. Glad he got some rest playing for the Spurs!

TickTickTickTickTickTick

by LeaguePassAddict on Mar 19, 2008 9:24 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Thanks for the update on KillerK

and I hope LC/Lyuba finds time to post again.

Signed,
LO (the Lazy One).

God bless you, Corliss. You always played as though you knew how expensive my tickets were. -section214

by KK on Mar 19, 2008 10:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

LO(the Lazy One)

Wow, you are lazy. Too lazy to type TLO for (The Lazy One). ;p

by Kfan in Korea on Mar 19, 2008 11:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Guilty!

Signed,
TLO

God bless you, Corliss. You always played as though you knew how expensive my tickets were. -section214

by KK on Mar 19, 2008 11:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I gotta protest the assertion

that Beno's defense is out of the ordinary. The low numbers from the Raptors and Blazers point guards you mentioned are such not because of Beno's defense, but rather because it is part of their play as of late. They have been slumping big time (as have their respective teams).

I do hope he develops into a good defensive player, but I see little substantial evidence of that at present.

by thelettere on Mar 18, 2008 9:00 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs