Even With a Thrilling Victory, Drama...

by Ziller on Mar 19, 2008 6:39 AM PDT in Commentary

It didn't take long, and it didn't make much sense for those of us unaware of the backstory or the context of the day at large.

Less than four minutes into play on Tuesday night at Arco Arena, Ron Artest was clearly fed up with Kings coach Reggie Theus. There had been an exchange in which Artest asked Theus about a play call from the floor and appeared less than thrilled with how the conversation had gone. And seconds later, there was Artest staring at Theus from afar while the coach continued on with his duties. A few minutes later, Theus finally acknowledged the obvious as Artest continued looking in his direction. He shrugged his shoulders and said, "What?"

(Emphasis mine.) Amick doesn't elaborate on the backstory or the context of the rest of the day at large, in his notes column, on the blog, in his game story. So it remains unclear what the (current) problem between Artest and Theus is.

Might be a good time to mention this as well:

With 33 seconds remaining and the Kings up 122-103, Theus called a timeout to insert Quincy Douby and Francisco García. The move infuriated [Stephen] Jackson, who didn't leave the floor for some time while voicing his displeasure with his old teammate, Johnson, and later to reporters.

"That's not right," he said. "I take it as disrespectful. It's good to still want to make your team win, but you're not playing for nothing. ... My biggest worry is to get into these playoffs and make them come watch us if they want to ... . That's not respecting the guys you work with, and I think he should apologize for it."

(Emphasis mine again.) Anyone else feeling like a Nuggets fan all of a sudden?

New rule: When you lose a game to a short-handed team 11-1/2 games behind you, and you are in 8th place by 1-1/2 games... you don't get to chirp about how much better you are. At least a day -- hell, an hour -- must pass before you pound your chest, OK?

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Comments

jackhole

Steven Jackson should be the one apologizing... to his teammates for stinking up the joint last night. As for Theus and Artest, oh well only a month to go...

Beer. Its not just for breakfast anymore.

by Beer king on Mar 19, 2008 6:57 AM PDT 0 recs

don't get your hopes up...

we still don't know whether artest is gonna opt out or stay....right?

by DowJones on Mar 19, 2008 7:44 AM PDT up 0 recs

Artest Options

If he opts in, we trade him and if he opts out we sign and trade him.

The NBA Lottery: Where fans turning against their favorite team happens.

by kingme18 on Mar 19, 2008 9:44 AM PDT up 0 recs

I doubt the Sign and trade will happen

Because of Luxury Tax constraints.

I am the stone that the builder refused I am the visual, the inspiration That made Lady Sing the Blues..I'm the spark that makes your idea bright...

by pookeyguru on Mar 19, 2008 11:18 AM PDT up 0 recs

Warriors. announcers...

Made a similar staement during the end of the broadcast last night, as I was watching the game in the City. The comment was "Well, the Kings are having fun right now... Hopefully they'll have as much fun watching the Warriors in the playoffs"

by Hoops916 on Mar 19, 2008 7:45 AM PDT 0 recs

Reactions

The responses by Jackson and the Warrior announcers make me so happy that we are not "tanking" these games.

Look in the mirror, gents. You're fighting for your playoff lives and you lost to a lottery team.

Deal with it.

SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Mar 19, 2008 7:58 AM PDT up 0 recs

Low class

You'd think announcers would be above that sort of thing.

by KingsFan on Mar 19, 2008 8:30 AM PDT up 0 recs

Actually...

I'd be pleased to hear our announcers voice that kind of unwavering support for the Kings. Always keep your audience in mind.

A lonely Kings fan in a sea of gold and purple...

by Jaycee on Mar 19, 2008 11:32 PM PDT up 0 recs

Jackson

Stephen Jackson = Ron Artest Lite. Slighlty less trouble, a lot less talent.

Stephen Jackson currently ranks 112 out of 120 in field goal percentage.

Stephen Jackson and Baron Davis will each get T'd out of at least one playoff game this year.

That being said, it is not Stephen Jackson's fault that he has never seen starters removed in an NBA game once the outcome has been determined. Let's look at this through his eyes. That was 20 seconds out of his life that he'll never get back. 20 seconds that could have been spent jacking up (and occasionally hitting) shots.

SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Mar 19, 2008 7:53 AM PDT 0 recs

Less trouble?

Stephen Jackson shot up a strip club last year.

And can someone please explain what he meant to say last night? I did not understand his gripe.

by NYCFan on Mar 19, 2008 8:07 AM PDT up 0 recs

I'll second that question

his phaseology was a bit confusing.

by thelettere on Mar 19, 2008 8:13 AM PDT up 0 recs

He saw our timeout as showboating

With only 30 seconds left, we should have just run out the clock.

by misterbrister on Mar 19, 2008 9:12 AM PDT up 0 recs

totally agree

And why bring in two guys that already had decent minutes in for 30 seconds? It was just a rookie coaching move that left a bad taste.

With said, Jackson is a total prick, and I couldn't care less what that thug thinks about any topic.

by Kusian on Mar 19, 2008 9:47 AM PDT up 0 recs

Jackson

I wouldn't say Jackson's got a lot less talent than Artest. Look at the Warriors record with and without him and look at his crunch time stats, which are outstanding. He hits big threes and plays good D.

Last night was not his night, but I wouldn't be so quick to judge him on that.

Disclaimer: This post may be a complete and utter waste of your valuable time.

by coolcatreportdotcom on Mar 19, 2008 10:22 AM PDT up 0 recs

My opinion

was based mostly on his field goal percentage on the season (ranks 112 out of 120!), not last night's performance.

You're entitled to your opinion. I'll stand by mine.

SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Mar 19, 2008 12:07 PM PDT up 0 recs

I like yours.

While Jackson has defensive skills he's a better offensive player in his mind then in reality. Not sure about the "less trouble" thing, tho'...he kinda seems like an emotional prickazoid.By comparison,I'd like to think that RonRon's improving in that regard with all his Sacramento SPCA therapy.healing his mind & all that.

by Rhondda Nunes on Mar 20, 2008 12:12 AM PDT up 0 recs

More Jackson

He hit two threes in the last 39 seconds to beat the Lakers tonight.

http://cosmos.bcst.yahoo.com/up/player/popup/?rn=207187&cl=7099946&ch=2432729&src=sports

I am not sure the last time the Kings had a guy who made two threes in the last 39 seconds. Ever? Bibby?

Anyway, any assessment of Jackson has to take his performance when the game is on the line into account. He has his minuses, but he comes to play in crunch time.

by coolcatreportdotcom on Mar 24, 2008 12:22 AM PDT up 0 recs

Interesting Take

Of course, had he not been 6-18 up to that point there would have been no need for his late game heroics.

Taking his late game performance into account, he still ranks 112 out of 120 in field goal percentage.

SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Mar 24, 2008 7:12 AM PDT up 0 recs

Valid Point

Jackson also ranks sixth overall in crunch time points scored:

http://www.82games.com/CSORT11.HTM

Your initial point - that Artest overall is better - is probably correct, regardless of what stats you rely on in getting to that opinion.

But a lot of NBA games are decided in the last two minutes, and I think I'd take Jackson over Artest in the last two minutes of the game.

by coolcatreportdotcom on Mar 24, 2008 2:29 PM PDT up 0 recs

Valid Point

Jackson also ranks sixth overall in crunch time points scored:

http://www.82games.com/CSORT11.HTM

Your initial point - that Artest overall is better - is probably correct, regardless of what stats you rely on in getting to that opinion.

But a lot of NBA games are decided in the last two minutes, and I think I'd take Jackson over Artest in the last two minutes of the game.

by coolcatreportdotcom on Mar 24, 2008 2:29 PM PDT up 0 recs

using that logic

Team Player Gm Min +- +- Fga Fg% 3pA 3p% Fta Ft% Pts Ast'd Reb Ast T/o Blk Stl
GSW Jackson 31 113 63 +27 20.7 .469 16.5 .462 17.8 83% 41.9 86% 6.8 2.5 3.0 0.4 0.8
SAC Artest 23 102 18 +9 23.1 .490 3.8 .375 9.0 63% 29.7 33% 6.1 4.7 4.7 1.9 1.9
SAC Martin 23 99 12 +6 16.5 .471 5.8 .500 20.4 76% 34.0 62% 4.4 1.9 2.9 0.5 1.0

KMart is the best clutch player of them all.

Mikki Moore in the skills challenge! - LPA

by iashwash on Mar 26, 2008 3:18 AM PDT up 0 recs

woops

Hit "post" when I meant to hit "preview" - that post is incomplete.

What I meant to say was that Jackson shoots more, and gets assisted on the vast majority of his shoots - meaning point guard play gets him in a better position to score. Even then, Artests percentages are higher (except for free-throw attempts, though he takes less, which usually means his fg% should be lower).

I don't think "clutch play" has as much to do with it, as good point-guard play and ball distribution has to do with it.

KMart was added for the hell of it. Ignore the "best clutch player" statement, though it can still be extrapolated, it is not as clear.

Mikki Moore in the skills challenge! - LPA

by iashwash on Mar 26, 2008 3:26 AM PDT up 0 recs

Dubs Fans and Announcers

I'll give 'em a pass on this one. That kind of loss is the most frustrating, since the W's are in a fight for a playoff spot but brought little effort last night against a shorthanded and less talented team. There been times in the past when we would have been spouting the same nonsense.

But Stephen Jackson needs to look in the mirror, as he didn't bring much last night. And I think we are all seeing the reason a Don Nelson coached team will never win the whole enchilada. Their entire philosophy of "run-and-gun for 48 minutes" is untenable over an 82 game season. And in the playoffs, every team is pumped up - and talent and execution becomes that much more important. They really are a gimmick team, similar to the LMU teams of Bo Kimble and Hank Gathers. Good team, can surprise a few people, but certainly not built to be a championship contender.

All that being said, I'll agree that the timeout by Theus was kind of bunk. We'd be a bit pissed too if the roles were reversed.

Kenny Thomas - uniting Kings fans since 2006

by otis29 on Mar 19, 2008 8:17 AM PDT 0 recs

Loyola Maramount!!!!

Thank God for old people and their memories!

On a serious tip, however, the Kings when they ran in yesteryear did so with a purpose. Running to run in the NBA doesn't do good if that's your main focus on the floor.

I agree that the Theus TO seems untimely, and that it's a rookie coaching move. Oh well. If the Dubs had played well nobody would be talking about it would they?

I am the stone that the builder refused I am the visual, the inspiration That made Lady Sing the Blues..I'm the spark that makes your idea bright...

by pookeyguru on Mar 19, 2008 11:23 AM PDT up 0 recs

Temporary Indulgence

I went to LMU and it's always pleasant to have them brought up, even if only in passing, particularly around Tournament time. Gathers would have been a great player if he hadn't passed. And they may be the most famouse Elite 8 team of all time...

by rbiegler on Mar 19, 2008 12:04 PM PDT up 0 recs

I wonder if Hank Gathers would be

mourned the same way Len Bias is if he been drafted by a NBA team the way Bias was with the C's.

I am the stone that the builder refused I am the visual, the inspiration That made Lady Sing the Blues..I'm the spark that makes your idea bright...

by pookeyguru on Mar 19, 2008 4:46 PM PDT up 0 recs

RIP HG

The fact that he played for a small west-coast program is undoubtedly a factor, too. It's a shame because his story is so much more compelling...the lefty free throws, the personality, dying on the freaking court, the team's subsequent cinderella run, etc.

(from BallHype )

by jgurney on Mar 19, 2008 4:58 PM PDT up 0 recs

Gonzaga is a small west coast program

LMU is in LA for chrissake. How much coverage did they get when Westhead was coaching there for the high profile type of scoring they did at the time? How much was the contrast of the high profile/high risk players UNLV had set against the lesser known equally as talented kids @ LMU? Either way, as you say, Gathers death is tragic. It's too bad kids today never heard of him. (I barely know who he is truth be told.)

I am the stone that the builder refused I am the visual, the inspiration That made Lady Sing the Blues..I'm the spark that makes your idea bright...

by pookeyguru on Mar 19, 2008 11:15 PM PDT up 0 recs

Hm...

I'm going to LMU now for my masters.

A lonely Kings fan in a sea of gold and purple...

by Jaycee on Mar 19, 2008 11:34 PM PDT up 0 recs

Good luck to you on that

What's your thesis topic?

by Rhondda Nunes on Mar 20, 2008 12:15 AM PDT up 0 recs

Artest vs Theus

I think Reggie can take care of himself. But on the other hand if Artest does not want to cooperate then his days as a King are likely coming to an end.

by KingsFan on Mar 19, 2008 8:35 AM PDT 0 recs

Dear Mr. Jackson,

Allow me to take a moment to apologize if I offended you by calling that timeout with 33 seconds left in the game last night. That was not my intent.

All season long I have called timeouts at curious moments, whether we have been winning or losing. Call it the youthful indiscretions of a rookie coach. I would liken this to getting suspended for going into the stands, firing a gun at a strip club, or getting tossed out of two playoff games in the same series.

In closing, I hope that this incident does not harm your opinion of me. I like to think that I get along well with the youth of today. Just ask Ron. He and I are great pals.

Now, how about a Fresca?

Good luck in the playoffs and / or prison,

Reggie Theus
Head Coach
Sacramento Kings
A Subsidiary Of Maloof's Sports & Entertainment

SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Mar 19, 2008 9:30 AM PDT 0 recs

Geez

You're a funny, funny guy.

If Jackson doesn't take you up on that Fresca, I will. I like the black cherry flavor.

TickTickTickTickTickTick

by LeaguePassAddict on Mar 19, 2008 9:40 AM PDT up 0 recs

What LPA said

and an A+ for the Caddyshack quote.

God bless you, Corliss. You always played as though you knew how expensive my tickets were. -section214

by KK on Mar 19, 2008 9:56 PM PDT up 0 recs

Damn Straight I'm Carrying

Hey Reg:

Dude, don't be maddogging me for carrying no piece in the strip joints. I use to hang there with your homie Eric Musselman, and he was always packing.

Stay cool.

Lil Stevie

Disclaimer: This post may be a complete and utter waste of your valuable time.

by coolcatreportdotcom on Mar 19, 2008 10:17 PM PDT up 0 recs

If only...

...these comment systems supported the awarding of points.

A lonely Kings fan in a sea of gold and purple...

by Jaycee on Mar 19, 2008 11:35 PM PDT up 0 recs

Ouch

You live by the 3, you die by the 3. The W's were 5-27 from outside the circle, a cool 18.5%.

As far as the timeout, why not? Seriously, give the guys a chance for a nice ovation from the crowd before the buzzer. It happens all the time, and it's no big deal. Jackson's just venting his frustration, but he picked a stupid thing to whine about.

Does it seem to anyone else that a couple of weeks ago, somebody (Petrie or Maloofs) told Reggie that his job was secure? Right around the time Artest was fined. It's seemed lately like Theus is more willing to stand up to Ron. Good to see.

TickTickTickTickTickTick

by LeaguePassAddict on Mar 19, 2008 9:37 AM PDT 0 recs

I don't get it

What's so disrespectful with calling a timeout? A lot of coaches do that to give the crowd a chance to applaud the starters. Am I missing something?

by kingme on Mar 19, 2008 11:24 AM PDT 0 recs

Yeah the sour/bitter disappointment

over the Dubs play last night.

I am the stone that the builder refused I am the visual, the inspiration That made Lady Sing the Blues..I'm the spark that makes your idea bright...

by pookeyguru on Mar 19, 2008 11:25 AM PDT up 0 recs

Artest

The whole Artest not getting along with the coach thing doesn't surprise me. Unless you're Geoff Petrie, you could have seen this coming. In fact, let's just put it this way:

The whole Artest __________________ thing doesn't surprise me. Unless you're Geoff Petrie, you could have seen this coming.

by Carl on Mar 19, 2008 11:26 AM PDT 0 recs

LOL

This has not been Petrie's best few years. The Theus and Beno signings are looking pretty good, but Douby is looking like a bust and Kenny Thomas is still an anchor on the payroll.

I liked the trade for Artest at the time, in that it gave us a very talented basketball player when we might have lost Peja for nothing the following summer. But my hope was that Artest would clean up his act and Petrie would deal him. Things are pretty damn complicated now, and you've given Artest more power over this franchise, via the opt-out.

And in case any of you haven't noticed, Artest is a pretty nutty and unpredictable character.

Hey, it won't be boring right?

Kenny Thomas - uniting Kings fans since 2006

by otis29 on Mar 19, 2008 11:45 AM PDT up 0 recs

On the Other Hand

Dude can really fill up a stat sheet. And help produce winning basketball. Not that those qualities matter much.

Disclaimer: This post may be a complete and utter waste of your valuable time.

by coolcatreportdotcom on Mar 19, 2008 11:52 AM PDT up 0 recs

Sane response

found here

SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Mar 19, 2008 12:01 PM PDT up 0 recs

Ron with the Kings

Sacramento has played 189 games since Ron joined the team.

Ron has missed 31 of those. That equates to playing about 68 1/2 games a season and missing about 13 1/2 games.

So he misses 16-17% of the games.

That's probably pretty close to his overall stats if I remember right.

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by coolcatreportdotcom on Mar 19, 2008 2:48 PM PDT up 0 recs

This is a recording

He can fill out a stat sheet, but his picture may be on the Post Office wall in two weeks - you just never know with Ron-Ron.

And as usual, you seem to think two opinions cannot at the same time co-exist:

Ron Artest is a very good NBA player.
Ron Artest should not be in the future plans of the Sacramento Kings.

Amazing, isn't it that there may be additional factors involved in the decision to keep Artest besides his natural talent?

Kenny Thomas - uniting Kings fans since 2006

by otis29 on Mar 19, 2008 12:45 PM PDT up 0 recs

Correction

<<And as usual, you seem to think two opinions cannot at the same time co-exist.<<<p> That's actually not the case, but repeat it often enough and it might become the truth.

My comments were simply restricted to his playing abilities, which certainly are part of the analysis on whether to keep him or not.

Ron's having a pretty nice March, averaging 23.6 points a game, shooting 50% from the field, 41% from three, 81% from the line, 3.1 steals. And the Kings have won four of their last five, three against playoff teams.

The Kings are 25-23 with Ron this season, and 6-13 without.

I enjoy watching the Kings whether or not he's on the floor, and life will go on whether or not he's with the team next year.

Disclaimer: This post may be a complete and utter waste of your valuable time.

by coolcatreportdotcom on Mar 19, 2008 1:39 PM PDT up 0 recs

Finally!

I enjoy watching the Kings whether or not he's on the floor, and life will go on whether or not he's with the team next year.

Something we agree on!

Kenny Thomas - uniting Kings fans since 2006

by otis29 on Mar 19, 2008 1:45 PM PDT up 0 recs

6-13....

how many of those games were either Mike Bibby, Kevin Martin or Beno Udrih also not able to play? Team record with and without Ron Artest means very little this season.

StR- Where Pookey is long, Otis is short and Section brings down the house.

by jjham15 on Mar 19, 2008 1:49 PM PDT up 0 recs

Good question

I don't have the answer offhand.

I do know that, over the course of his career, with Ron/without Ron has meant about 4 1/2 wins per season. And that includes his first 2 1/2 seasons with terrible Bulls teams.

In the last three seasons Sacramento is 79-79 (.500) with Ron, and 29-44 (.397) without him. This includes their 18-24 record in 2005-06 before he joined the team.

Over the course of a regular season that equates to 42-42 with Ron, and 32-33 wins and 49-50 losses without him.

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by coolcatreportdotcom on Mar 19, 2008 2:41 PM PDT up 0 recs

It's not basketball that's the problem

It's not generally basketball that's the problem. It's everything else that makes me want the guy gone.

by Carl on Mar 19, 2008 10:17 PM PDT up 0 recs

GOOOO

DENVER!

by kingsTV on Mar 19, 2008 12:01 PM PDT 0 recs

Amick

Not sure what all that doubletalk about "it didn't make much sense for those of us unaware of the backstory or the context of the day at large" means, but maybe he can clear it up in a followup.

Just get to the point, Sam.

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by coolcatreportdotcom on Mar 19, 2008 12:05 PM PDT 0 recs

Artest

Things will be fine - its been a frustrating year but winning will cure all next year(?)

by KingsYesterdayTodayTomorrow on Mar 19, 2008 12:16 PM PDT 0 recs

Denver or Golden State

Now I am torn. I didn't want Denver to make it to the playoffs since they wouldn't take Artest, now I don't want the Warriors (Jackson specifically) to make the playoffs. Please advise.

by spragueito on Mar 19, 2008 12:33 PM PDT 0 recs

Denver misses playoffs

GSW get swept by Hornets in 1st round. Narrowly missing being the 1st team out of the playoffs, as the Lakers were swept by the Suns the day before.

It's the best of all worlds.

by Kfan in Korea on Mar 19, 2008 2:04 PM PDT up 0 recs

Waaaa! Waaaa!

Waaaaa! Poor baby. I'm sure that JUST what Reggie was thinking (hah!) making a statement about thier team. Thaaats what he's spending his time and thought on. They are realising that Nellie-ball may be fun to watch but will never win anything! Ya gotta be able to grind games out when you need to - and that group of midgets doesn't have the pieces.

by KingsYesterdayTodayTomorrow on Mar 19, 2008 12:39 PM PDT 0 recs