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Shawn Marion?

(Consider this one of those "thinking out loud" scenarios.)

Barry Jackson of the Miami Herald noted Wednesday that Shawn Marion's situation is a bit up in the air. He's due $17 million in 2008-09, but would prefer to get an extension this summer. Miami probably does not want to offer that extension, becuase it would all but negate their play to get cap space in the summer of 2009. They'd prefer to play the market in '09 to paying Marion now.

But again: Marion wants a contract. He won't take much less than what he makes now ($17 million), Jackson assumes (while noting his agent, Dan Fegan, is a notoriously tough negotiator). He could very easily ask for a trade to a team which will pay him.

Miami's best interest in that case might be to just ignore him and let the deal expire in the summer of '09 (or trade him to a contender at the deadline for expirings and a pick)... unless the Heat could get something back without taking on future salary obligations.

Imagine this trade: Marion for Ron Artest, Mikki Moore, Quincy Douby and Atlanta's 2nd round pick.

Sacramento agrees to sign Marion for three or four years beyond his final year of this contract for a flat $17 million per year. The trade allows Sacramento to resign Beno Udrih without hitting the luxury tax in 2008-09. (It actually gives them a few million to spare.) The luxury tax does become endangered in 2009-10, but the Kings will then have two sizable expiring contracts to pawn off at the deadline; salaries aren't tallied for luxury tax reasons until the last day of the season. (So you can start the season $4 million over the tax line and make trades to slide under by the end. Teams do this on a small scale every year. Denver's Von Wafer-Taurean Green trade was an example.)

Miami, on the other hand, gets something for Marion: a year of Artest, a year or two of Mikki Moore (immediately their best center), a look at Douby, and a mid-40s pick. (This trade requires Artest not to opt out, obviously.) Artest can either be treated as an audition next to Dwyane Wade and [Beasley or Rose], or he can be a placeholder expiring contract. Moore should start for that team; his benefit is that the team would only be on the hook for $2 million of his 2009-10 contract -- if he's cut in the summer of 2009, the team only owes $2 million, which is a $4.5 million savings on his contract. If you need him, you keep him. If not, cut him. Douby's a cheap prospect.

Miami saves money next year, Sacramento gets an All-Star power forward entering the end of his career. Can Udrih/Martin/Salmons/Marion/Miller with Hawes, Garcia, [2009's #12 pick], Shelden Williams make a little run? Probably not. Can they win enough to fill some seats and possibly make the playoffs? Absolutely.

The goal in any such endeavor would be: making sure you don't block Hawes or Williams, which would necessitate fewer minutes for Miller, trading Miller and starting Hawes, or playing Marion at some 3; limiting the number of years on Marion's extension; drafting point guard help (even in the second round) because you won't likely be able to afford an Anthony Johnson type backup.

I'm all on board for full-on rebuilding. But I don't think you have to set whole rosters on fire to do so. Marion's got plenty left in his tank; All-Stars aren't available for a relative pittance too often. He'd be the only All-Star you could afford (beyond what you have) until 2011, likely. It's a matter of whether you think that core (Marion, Martin, Udrih, Miller) can get anywhere, and if not whether you're willing to wait until 2011 to try again.

But there's no sense (to me) in burning something to the ground for the sake of a shot at a high pick one year. You can build for somethin' and win at the same time.

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Marion
I like Marion a lot more as a 3 than a 4, so I think that there may need to be significant roster re-tooling should we acquire him. On the other hand, Martin's stroke would instantly look a lot better when placed next to Marion's.

I'd much rather watch Marion than go to each game wondering which Ron is going to show up (or if either Ron is going to show up). The $17 million for a few years makes me nervous, but not as nervous as paying that kind of money for Rashard Lewis or Andre Kirilenko. Perhaps that is Marion's true market value.

The core of the team that TZ outlined would call for a more up tempo game plan. It would easily be a much more fun team to watch. And if it doesn't work you've probably set yourself back a year (maybe two). But if it does work ARCO Arena becomes very loud and very full much more quickly.

SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Mar 27, 2008 6:00 PM PDT   0 recs

Re: Marion
I've always loved Marion's game, though I can't understand his seeming desire to play for a less competitive team so long as it allows him to showcase his talents and get his accolades. It would certainly be interesting to see him in a Kings uniform even if it served no other purpose than to keep the product entertaining for a few years as the rebuilding process continues.
A lonely Kings fan in a sea of gold and purple...

by Jaycee on Mar 27, 2008 6:06 PM PDT   0 recs

No Hell no
and Hell fucking no. Nice thought though. After reading it through I reiterate the 3rd thought. Hell FUCKING no.
I am the stone that the builder refused I am the visual, the inspiration That made Lady Sing the Blues..I'm the spark that makes your idea bright...

by pookeyguru on Mar 27, 2008 6:27 PM PDT   0 recs

If it was just trading straight up
for Marion without extending him why not? Other than that I wouldn't do it. For a season yes. For the long term not a chance.

If you're going to sign a guy like Marion to a 25% of your total cap, he better be a hell of alot BETTER than he is. Is that the case? Of course Marion wants an extension. Why does Miami have to give in? Why does Miami have to do anything? Fegan has very little negotiating power here. Everyone who understands the cap understands this. If Marion isn't happy with the kind of deal he has, which he was lucky to get in the 1st place, then he won't be any happier in Miami than he will in Sacramento or timbucktoo. I don 't really care if you deal for Marion next season. That works under the cap, and allows you more cap room beyond the season to work with.

But that's not what Marion wants. Marion wants an extension this summer. Since the only way the Kings can accomplish this is by doing a s&t, then who cares? But there are more problems with this. TZ says you would have some money to spare. To sign who? Does this include the 1st round pick? Who else? I don't get why you would pay so much money for a guy, a team that won 60 games with, would trade away so willingly for a fatter older broken down ex-superstar, whose own presence was clogging up his previous team's cap, just because you don't have the stomach to rebuild. I just don't get it. I'm missing something. The Maloof's paying luxury tax for an 8th seed? Marion is better than I give him credit for? I don't know. I think it's a bad idea, and it's hardly because the Kings have to give up Douby.

I am the stone that the builder refused I am the visual, the inspiration That made Lady Sing the Blues..I'm the spark that makes your idea bright...

by pookeyguru on Mar 27, 2008 7:17 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Yeah
I figured they'd have some room under the tax this summer to sign the first-round pick, Beno to the mid-level and have roughly $3 million for second-rounders or vet free agents (or breathing room).

by Ziller on Mar 28, 2008 7:57 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Hmmmmm
I thought you had that figured in. It just wasn't entirely clear. So I'm glad you cleared that up. In that case: Hell No! I'm opposed to the extension mostly. But straight up on the current contract I'm good with that.
I am the stone that the builder refused I am the visual, the inspiration That made Lady Sing the Blues..I'm the spark that makes your idea bright...

by pookeyguru on Mar 28, 2008 1:51 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I agree
That extension idea makes me nervous.

I think he's a serious upgrade from what we have now, and I LOVE the run-and-gun style of play.

But you do have to wonder if he's looked better than he really is because of Nash and Amare.

Seriously, those two could have made Pete Chilcutt look good.

TickTickTickTickTickTick

by LeaguePassAddict on Mar 28, 2008 4:16 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

thanks
Nice response, Pookey.

by Kusian on Mar 28, 2008 10:43 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I gotta agree.
No fucking way in HELL. Last thing you need is a getting old 3 or 4. We got TONS o those already. PLUS, I haven't seen Miami blossom since the trade. Marion seems more a product of Nash and Stoudemire til he proves otherwise.

PS~There's enough butt-ugly folks in this town w/o having to resort to importing The Matrix. The man's a hideous CHUD.

The wise man tells you Where you have fallen And where you yet may fall - Invaluable secrets! The world may hate him. But good men love him.

by Psychrates on Mar 27, 2008 8:04 PM PDT   0 recs

No thanks
Fuck Shawn Marion! He is one of the premiere talents in this league. He COULD be a superduperstar. His only problem is being a whiny, selfish little bitch.  Marion, who is amazingly talented, had the chance to play with TWO people that were better than him, Amare and Nash. How many great players can say that they get to play with two other simply amazing teammates. The Suns were one shitty suspension away from a championship. You saw what the Spurs did to the Cavs last year, imagine the Suns doing it but going 30mph faster. And Marion whined the whole god damned way. The Suns made him an All Star and would've given him a ring or two. But he had to go and be a stupid ungrateful little bitch.

So yeah, Fuck Shawn Marion!

(go ahead and call me angry, but don't call me wrong)

by vfettke on Mar 27, 2008 9:10 PM PDT   0 recs

Ok
You're angry.
TickTickTickTickTickTick

by LeaguePassAddict on Mar 28, 2008 4:18 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Marion
He may not be worth the money and his attitude may be an issue, especially considering the money.

However, he is a talent and he does play. At 6'7" he has averaged double digit rebounds for his career, and coming into this season he had seven straight seasons where he played 79 games or more.

I wouldn't call this an endorsement, just an acknowledgement that he is a fine player.

SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Mar 27, 2008 9:31 PM PDT   0 recs

Did Shawn Marion
Run over all your dogs??
Kenny Thomas - uniting Kings fans since 2006

by otis29 on Mar 27, 2008 9:32 PM PDT   0 recs

No
I just don't endorse the action that TZ proposed. It's just that simple. (I don't hate Marion. I just think he's overrated.)

But for the record I agree with Section that he is valuable. (If there wasn't some kind of basis would we want him?)

I am the stone that the builder refused I am the visual, the inspiration That made Lady Sing the Blues..I'm the spark that makes your idea bright...

by pookeyguru on Mar 27, 2008 9:45 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

In case you were referring to me
No. I just think he's a selfish prick. He's an amazing player, and I don't believe his overrated in the slightest. If he had accepted his role with the Suns and been content they'd be a bigger powerhouse than the Celtics, and he'd be viewed as a better player than he is now.

I wouldn't be completely unhappy if a trade like this happened. I'm an optimist and would be hoping and praying that Marion can be more of a team player. But I won't hold my breath.

by vfettke on Mar 27, 2008 10:04 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Marion's Attitude
Valid point in regards to Marion's attitude, vfettke. Especially when you consider what we've been through with Ron-Ron.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Mar 27, 2008 10:09 PM PDT   0 recs

here's how i think of it
Ron has good days and bad days. On good days his attitude is great and he's one of the best players alive. Bad days, he has a poopy attitude and someone gets punched, like the entire city of Detroit, for example. However, the bad seems to outweigh the good with Ron. If you took all of Ron's good and bad days and averaged them out, you'd have Shawn Marion. Extreme talent, whiny baby.

by vfettke on Mar 27, 2008 10:19 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Although...
having a crappy attitude from Marion pretty much all the time would be a nice change of pace in the consistency department

by vfettke on Mar 27, 2008 10:20 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Couple things
A couple of points:
  • Marion doesn't turn 30 until May.  That's not getting old unless you're the pre-summer workout Brad Miller.
  • The Heat don't make that trade.  If you can't get Linas Kleiza for Artest, how are you going to get Shawn Marion?  Mikki Moore is a hustle player and great locker room guy, but 8 points and 6 rebounds proves he isn't an NBA starter, so I don't see the value in adding him to the trade.
  • Shawn Marion is an excellent second or third fiddle, which means he's not worth anything close to $17 million per year.  I seriously doubt he gets that kind of money on the open market.  Then again, with the Knicks and Dallas around, you never know.
  • Shelden Williams may not be a factor.  He hasn't even got off the bench the last two games (is he hurt?), which I think is idiotic.  If Shelden doesn't play much in the next 12 games, he has no future with the Kings.

by Carl on Mar 28, 2008 3:47 PM PDT   0 recs

The CrownUs Camp says No..
i like the idea of martin and marion together. however, i don't like the idea of the team overpaying another pseudo-star.
It's May 12th 1999, America waits in anticipation as Todd Fuller steps to the free-throw line.....

by CrownUs93 on Mar 28, 2008 3:51 PM PDT   0 recs

Marion
brings a lot to the table, especially if you're into running the Phoenix/Golden State up-tempo offense. He's a gazelle out there, definitely a unique and major talent, but his attitude leaves a lot to be desired and (just as importantly), that'd be a lot of $$$ committed to a guy who probably will be past his prime by the time this team has been re-built and is ready to make a serious run.  

Remember how it took a year or two before the Kings could get past the Jazz and deep into the playoffs? This thing is gonna take time and I think we need to get younger, more athletic, more defensive-minded and stay flexible with the salary cap. I vote no.

"When the Going Gets Weird, the Weird Turn Pro." (Hunter S Thompson)

by Mucho Moss on Mar 28, 2008 5:40 PM PDT   0 recs

BTW, I see that Nene
...is expected back to finish the season for Denver. Kudos to him!

I wonder if that's a name that could turn up again in trade talks involving Ron Ron.  They say Petrie loves his game, and he's only 25.

"When the Going Gets Weird, the Weird Turn Pro." (Hunter S Thompson)

by Mucho Moss on Mar 28, 2008 5:50 PM PDT   0 recs

Will Petrie love that contract though?
That's a tough pill to swallow if you ask me.
I am the stone that the builder refused I am the visual, the inspiration That made Lady Sing the Blues..I'm the spark that makes your idea bright...

by pookeyguru on Mar 29, 2008 1:46 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Pookey, Pookey
You don't SWALLOW a pill that big. You, uh, put it, um, somewhere else...
TickTickTickTickTickTick

by LeaguePassAddict on Mar 29, 2008 9:39 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Ha!
New nickname for Kenny Thoams - "The Big Suppository."
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Mar 29, 2008 3:32 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Maybe he could start selling
Dulco-Lax and be useful again. :)
I am the stone that the builder refused I am the visual, the inspiration That made Lady Sing the Blues..I'm the spark that makes your idea bright...

by pookeyguru on Mar 30, 2008 2:05 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Holy crap!
I have laughed out loud at a post like that in a while, I love it!

BTW, aloha from Hawaii!  There have been SO many topics in want to touch on in the last week, but I am still on vacation.  Expect a overdue amount of posts on Wednesday

Wait....Why is everybody clapping? Everyone around me is clapping.... I guess I should be clapping too... GO LAKERS!!! I hate living in So Cal

by 27freethrows on Mar 30, 2008 2:12 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Marion
Out for the rest of the year.

by coolcatreportdotcom on Apr 3, 2008 10:04 PM PDT   0 recs

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