Theus: Artest's Better Than Martin

by Ziller on Apr 17, 2008 7:56 AM PDT in Commentary Comment 34 comments

In his post-season press conference, Reggie Theus repeatedly called Ron Artest his best player, and said he's the only guy you can "throw it to" when the game's on the line.

"Down the stretch of games, what people don't really understand is that teams are throwing the ball to (Houston's) Tracy McGrady and letting him decide and figure out what's going on. They're throwing the ball to (the Los Angeles Lakers') Kobe (Bryant). They're throwing the ball to (Dallas') Dirk Nowitzki. They're throwing the ball to their best player and letting that guy get the double team and (play) out of it.

"Outside of Ron Artest, we don't have anyone you can throw the ball to ... . Without that guy, we're going to have to start figuring out where we're going to throw the ball."

According to 82games.com's "super clutch" numbers, which are stats earned in the 4th quarter or overtime, less than 2 minutes left, neither team leading by more than 3, Kevin Martin scored 1.29 points per possession, including FTs and TOs. In these minutes, Artest scored 0.98 points per possession (though he added a total of 4 assists in these 34 minutes of super clutch time, as well).

If you give Martin 5 possessions in "super clutch time" in a game, the stats say he will score 6.45 points. Artest will score 4.9 points, with a fraction of an assist (which by most measures/logic would be worth a fraction of a point). A point or point-and-a-half is all the difference in the world in a close game. (Artest's stunning inability to draw a foul in the clutch -- as opposed to Martin's striking knack for drawing fouls in the same circumstances -- has a ton to do with this. Ron can draw fouls, just not in crunch time.)

Because defense is hard to measure, we could "discuss" the superior player between Martin and Artest for days and days. No one would ever win the argument. But the stats show pretty clearly that Martin is the best scorer at any time, including down the stretch, and is less likely to turn the ball over. Artest has a knack for those timely threes, or sometimes a monster late dunk (hi Joakim!). But he also has a knack for forcing junk, and getting stripped. Martin has 1 turnover in all his 33 super-clutch minutes, to go with his 30 points.

You need a bucket? You give Kevin Martin the damn ball.

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Trade Artest and end this foolishness

You need a bucket? You give Kevin Martin the damn ball.

Totally agree. It might be different if Artest would pass out of the double team, thus making the other team pay for collapsing into the paint, but he won’t do it. Which leads to Ron going 1 on 5 and taking a low percentage shot.

It’s so fracking obvious, I don’t understand why it keeps happening. We have players who can hit the open shot. Martin, Cisco, Beno, Salmons, Miller, Moore and Hawes can all hit an open shot. If Ron would pass the ball, one of two things would happen. Either they keep doubling him, and we keep getting open looks, or they stop doubling him and he can go 1 on 1 in the post. If Ron would do this one thing, 75% of all anti-Ron complaints would go away. But he won’t do it, and all ball movement comes to a stop in crunch time. And now we find out that’s how Reggie wants it. Unbelievable.

by Kfan in Korea on Apr 17, 2008 8:10 AM PDT reply actions 2 recs

Absolutely

If Ron would do this one thing, 75% of all anti-Ron complaints would go away. But he won’t do it, and all ball movement comes to a stop in crunch time.

This is my biggest gripe with Artest. He doesn’t know when to give it up. And if Reggie is encouraging him to think that way, then we are not going to get any better next year if he stays.

That is, quite possibly, the most discouraging thing I’ve read to date from the Kings season post-mortem comments.

TickTickTickTickTickTick

by LeaguePassAddict on Apr 17, 2008 10:05 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs

Or at least Reggie isn't going to bash Ron publicly in that way

We could build ping-pong ball shrines and make sacrifices at them, like broken ping-pong paddles, or burning Peaches in effigy--LPA

by pookeyguru on Apr 17, 2008 1:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I hope you're right

This is why I like you so much. Your combination of cynicism and optimism.

TickTickTickTickTickTick

by LeaguePassAddict on Apr 17, 2008 6:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Not to mention

The cool signature line!

TickTickTickTickTickTick

by LeaguePassAddict on Apr 17, 2008 6:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Can't agree more.

If artest was more of a pass first type player who could draw the double team before passing to one of our many great wing players to finish the game this would be a non-issue, and artest would be that much better.

Unfortunately this is rarely the case, he wants to be top dog, therefore he commands the ball, and makes the decision to score it time and time again. Look back at the top 5 plays of the season… Who were the players scoring those game winners? Cisco twice, and though they didn’t show it martin a couple times as well.

Point made.

by dkons21 on Apr 17, 2008 9:10 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

WAIT A FREAKIN' MINUTE!

Did anyone else miss this part?!

“Outside of Ron Artest, we don’t have anyone you can throw the ball to … . Without that guy, we’re going to have to start figuring out where we’re going to throw the ball.”

Does Reggie know something that we don’t know? Does he know something that we hope to God he knows?

by vfettke on Apr 17, 2008 9:19 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Hmmm, good catch

But maybe too much reading into something minor and impromptu?

Mikki Moore in the skills challenge! - LPA

by iashwash on Apr 17, 2008 9:26 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah

He mentions throughout the presser (which you can watch at the link in the story) many ifs re: Ron’s status. No one knows. I think Ron’s agent and Petrie will discuss an extension; if it falls through, I’d expect Ron to opt out.

by Ziller on Apr 17, 2008 9:28 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Do you have any fear that Petrie/ Mark Stevens will

negotiate a lower extension because of the “loyalty” the Kings showed to Ron?

We could build ping-pong ball shrines and make sacrifices at them, like broken ping-pong paddles, or burning Peaches in effigy--LPA

by pookeyguru on Apr 17, 2008 1:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah

It was. After reading the actual article and not just the hopeful little blurb that that jerk Ziller posted it seems that he’s talking hypothetically. Damn it!

by vfettke on Apr 17, 2008 9:29 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Totally kidding about Ziller being a jerk, btw

by vfettke on Apr 17, 2008 10:01 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I wonder...

Is this perhaps just a parting shot, ‘call out’ to Kevin Martin as we head into the offseason? I wouldn’t put it beyond Theus to say something to get Martin pissed and motivated to come back a more demanding force on the court. Seriously, the guy is as effective a scorer as you’ll find in the league but doesn’t seem to demand the ball as much as he probably should. My bet is that it’s just a mind game thing by the coach and has nothing to do with Artest at all.

by defender96 on Apr 17, 2008 10:32 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Not sure

My guess is it’s just Theus being honest. The guy doesn’t really have a filter, from what I can tell.

by otis29 on Apr 17, 2008 11:25 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Or..

It’s the complete opposite: It’s Theus saying whatever he can to get Artest not to opt out.

by Ziller on Apr 17, 2008 1:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

KMart is deferential

I think we focus on KMart on this site more than Theus does. Everything that makes him such a sweet kid (he is humble and respectful and willing to defer to others) make him ill suited to be the alpha male leader each team needs. KMart is perfect, though, as a great scorer and potentially good defender on a team with a superstar who will provide leadership and toughness (ideally, a power forward). KMart will try to be that alpha male, because he’s so willing to improve, but I think it’s like Bill Parcells says. You are who you are. Let’s love KMart for who he is, and pair him with a big man natural leader who will draw double teams and convert efficiently in the “super-clutch”.

Life is every mammal's journey from very very wet to very very dry.

by Holmdel on Apr 17, 2008 12:21 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

TZ, what's the formula?

What numbers are you calculating to get the 1.29 and .98 respectively?

by Kusian on Apr 17, 2008 1:03 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

never mind, TZ

I figued it out.

Artest’s +/- during that time is higher, but I’m never quite sure how much the stat means.

by Kusian on Apr 17, 2008 1:06 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

In such a limited set of minutes...

Virtually nothing.

by Ziller on Apr 17, 2008 2:00 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

and you are right

The difference is FTs. Ron, not surprisingly, takes more shots than Kevin, but, surprisingly, shoots a higher %. Kevin’s FT attemps, however, dwarf Ron’s. And, of course, Kevin is great FT shooter.

by Kusian on Apr 17, 2008 1:12 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

I love this doozy from Sam's article--Absolutely thrills me

The Kings small forward, who was sidelined Tuesday night, was chatting courtside with the matriarch of the Maloof empire, Colleen, exchanging pleasantries shortly before the regular season ended.

We could build ping-pong ball shrines and make sacrifices at them, like broken ping-pong paddles, or burning Peaches in effigy--LPA

by pookeyguru on Apr 17, 2008 1:34 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Now that my head isn't spinning from these comments by Theus

I will say this. I thought Theus made a great comment in his rebounding as a team point. Seems to me another guy got ostracized for saying the same thing. (And he directly credited Brad Miller with his work there.) I think Theus is saying that if they don’t have a strong board man/shot blocker at the 4 they won’t win alot of games. Hello Darrell Arthur.

We could build ping-pong ball shrines and make sacrifices at them, like broken ping-pong paddles, or burning Peaches in effigy--LPA

by pookeyguru on Apr 17, 2008 1:50 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

What is Reggie thinking?

I really liked his job as a coach and everything, but has he gone mad? K-Mart is the best player on the roster, no doubt about it.
And I’d rather have Cisco with the ball on his hands down the stretch than Artest.

by Line_Brazil on Apr 17, 2008 1:56 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Most likely...

He said this to keep Artest from opting out. Due to the limited amount of teams with available cap space he will more than likely get his wish.

by moproblemz on Apr 17, 2008 2:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Peaches - Amazing - Again

So people are calling in today and attempting to weigh in on the Theus interview in The Bee, especially as it pertains to Ron Artest. One problem – Peaches didn’t read the article. The pompous ass is supposed to have Theus on the show tomorrow, so he doesn’t really want to discuss it until then.

What – a – tool.

SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Apr 17, 2008 5:43 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

He reads it

He doesn’t want to be publicly responsible for any opinions on the subject other than what Theus himself says tomorrow. It’s all an act. Always has been, and always will be. That’s why so few people take him seriously especially when his own partner and talks about something Amick may have written. If Napear’s ego wasn’t on the line he’d realize why the show with his presence does nothing for Sacramento Talk Show callers.

We could build ping-pong ball shrines and make sacrifices at them, like broken ping-pong paddles, or burning Peaches in effigy--LPA

by pookeyguru on Apr 17, 2008 6:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Unbelievable.

by Ziller on Apr 17, 2008 6:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Tracy Mcgrady and Kobe

are both guards. Last time I checked, we have a pretty good shooting guard on the Kings, who should get the ball in crunch time. Statements like the ones made by Theus about Artest really make me wonder about Theus’ judgement.

by newkings on Apr 17, 2008 9:24 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Based on this comment alone

Theus needs to go.

by thelettere on Apr 17, 2008 11:51 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Theus

Is off his rocker.

Kevin showed a lot of late-game improvement at the end of the year. Theus should acknowledge that.

by coolcatreportdotcom on Apr 18, 2008 12:48 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

AAAAAAAAhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

How is it that Theus doesn’t know his best player. Has he fallen for all the media coverage of Crazy, or does he think he has snake eggs in his backyard too. Theus’s comment makes my opinion of him drop way down. If you look at most of our losses last year you see Ronny hoggin the ball even when he is playing crappy. At least thats my opinion. If he didn’t have such unbelievable D I wouldn’t even want him on our roster, and even so it’s questionable.

Ball Hoggers Don’t Win Championships!!!!

Look at what MJ had to change and the evolution of Kobe’s game!

If LA fell into the sea would anyone Really miss it??

by Cowbell Addict on Apr 18, 2008 8:06 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs