"With the way I score in many different ways – attacking and shooting. And he says there's no oth...

"With the way I score in many different ways – attacking and shooting. And he says there's no other guy that can get the ball down the stretch, even though I proved when he put it in my hands that I can do it? Then I averaged 24 (points) on 15 shots? It's stuff like that. You have a two-guard who you can put (the ball) in his hands because he can change a game and score like the best in the league. Someday we'll realize that we have that."

Kevin Martin in the Sacramento Bee

about 1 month ago Ziller Comment 43 comments 3 recs |

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Comments

Halleluiah

Fire Theus!!
Fire Theus!!
Fire Theus!!

by Kfan in Korea on Apr 18, 2008 8:19 AM PDT 0 recs

I’ve never seen Martin so angry in the press, even the episode in February. There’s a real edge to this here.

by Ziller on Apr 18, 2008 8:20 AM PDT 0 recs

Good for Kevin

I thought Theus’s quite about Artest being his only go to guy was horse shit. Kevin IS thy guy for this team. They’d had better learn how good Kevin is and fast.

Wait....Why is everybody clapping? Everyone around me is clapping.... I guess I should be clapping too... GO LAKERS!!! I hate living in So Cal

by 27freethrows on Apr 18, 2008 8:29 AM PDT 0 recs

Damn Straight!

That’s the way to throw a punch, Kevin. Don’t take crap from a rookie coach who didn’t make the playoffs.

by Flood Zone on Apr 18, 2008 8:40 AM PDT 0 recs

Wow

Looks like Kevin has been reading TZ’s posts on Sactown Royalty! ;)

by defender96 on Apr 18, 2008 8:42 AM PDT 0 recs

I agree

I’d be shocked if this was just coincidental and Kevin hadn’t read TZ’s “arsenal” post.

Life is every mammal's journey from very very wet to very very dry.

by Holmdel on Apr 18, 2008 9:12 AM PDT up 0 recs

The Maloof's

have paid Kevin already, but not Ron. So why isn’t Theus seemingly on the same page? This is very interesting and at least a little alarming.

There is no doubt that Kevin can add a few more dimensions to his game. But to become a better passer (for example), you have to have the ball! C’mon, Reg. You dominated the ball when you played, touched it on damn near every possession. You want that from Kevin? Get him the damn ball (apologies to Keyshawn)! Yes, he can be a better defender, but 4.5 boards is not bad (Doug Christie averaged 4.3 rpg, Mitch 3.7).

I just don’t get this. Intentional or not, Theus threw Martin under the bus in favor of Ron Artest. Dumb.

SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Apr 18, 2008 8:44 AM PDT 0 recs

I just don’t get this. Intentional or not, Theus threw Martin under the bus in favor of Ron Artest. Dumb.

I don’t think anybody really gets why Theus had to throw Martin under the bus in favor or Ron Artest. I don’t really understand what’s really so valuable about Ron that Theus “felt” he had to do such a thing. Theus’ comments were a tad confusing, and I wonder how this effects Martin’s work over the summer.

We could build ping-pong ball shrines and make sacrifices at them, like broken ping-pong paddles, or burning Peaches in effigy--LPA

by pookeyguru on Apr 18, 2008 10:59 AM PDT up 0 recs

Kevin work over the summer

This is going to make Kevin work harder over the summer to try and prove that he is the man. Right now he feels its him against the world. He doesn’t seem like the player that would sit back and accept this and not work hard in the summer. This quote proves that he is willing to work and he will work this summer. I can’t wait to see him next year.

when will the Kenny Thomas Reign of Terror end?!!??

by diehardkingsfan5 on Apr 18, 2008 11:03 AM PDT up 0 recs

Well I hope you're right

Althought these types of things can lead to fostering bad kharma. I just hope Kevin goes about his business, but if this is the start of Kevin being more demanding from the organization with regards to how he’s treated that’s a good thing. If Kevin can make it a him vs Ron type thing, that’s a good thing.s Unless you like Ron Artest.

We could build ping-pong ball shrines and make sacrifices at them, like broken ping-pong paddles, or burning Peaches in effigy--LPA

by pookeyguru on Apr 18, 2008 12:13 PM PDT up 0 recs

Kev will work his ass off no doubt

And its going to suck when he starts strong and Theus comes out with “Oh, I just said that to light a fire under your ass” as his excuse.

Part of me thinks that this is what Theus might be doing, because he couldn’t be that stupid, could he? I can imagine him doing something like that to get a player motivated. The only problem is it Kevin Martin. All Theus really has to do is what he’s done before and pull Kevin aside and tell him what he wants from him. And Kevin magically does it.

by vfettke on Apr 18, 2008 11:28 AM PDT up 0 recs

Yeah, you can see this happening. It’s as if Martin wouldn’t work his ass off this summer, like he has every summer since he got into the league.

by Ziller on Apr 18, 2008 1:17 PM PDT up 0 recs

I want to make this clear before I waddle off for my bus & work

Everyone understands that what I’m really trying to say is that Kevin may not be so inclined to work on his game if he feels slighted in the same way he has in the past. Do I think that will happen? No, it’s unlikely. There is damage control on the PR front that could be done to appease Kevin somewhat. However, that being said, it’s easy to see why Kevin would less inclined to work on his game than he has in the past, and given Theus’ statement, whether Kevin should do it or not, it seems like a breeding ground for mass dis-content if Theus can’t shuffle between a way to compliment Artest without downgrading Martin to accomplish it.

We could build ping-pong ball shrines and make sacrifices at them, like broken ping-pong paddles, or burning Peaches in effigy--LPA

by pookeyguru on Apr 18, 2008 1:35 PM PDT up 0 recs

Theus can’t shuffle between a way to compliment Artest without downgrading Martin to accomplish it.

And its funny too. How hard is it to say “Artest is the best player on this team, but Martin is our best scorer?”

This is all kind of silly. People need to just keep their mouths shut. Yes, Theus needs to praise Artest in the media. That’s the kind of attention Ron wants. He wants his ass kissed as much as possible for everyone to see. Martin just wants the god damned ball so he can win some god damned games.

by vfettke on Apr 18, 2008 1:54 PM PDT up 0 recs

This is the scariest part of Theus being the head coach

How many times this year has he created unneccessary drama in his own locker room, starting from day one? How many times has it seemed that he’d rather communicate with his players via the press rather than face to face? And how many times have we seen the Maloofs say one thing, Theus say another and a specific player say another?

I was impressed with Theus’ ability to get 38 wins out of this group, considering the injuries/trades. But team management (Maloofs, Theus, Petrie) need to start getting on the same f-ing page with each other and their players.

It’s looking like freaking amateur hour here…

"Boo Lakers! Boo Kobe! Go Kings! Go Giants! Boo Dodgers!" - my 5 year-old daughter - 4/15/08

by otis29 on Apr 18, 2008 11:25 AM PDT up 0 recs

Hmm

But team management (Maloofs, Theus, Petrie) need to start getting on the same f-ing page with each other and their players.
It’s looking like freaking amateur hour here…

Couldn’t agree more Otis. I couldn’t agree more.

We could build ping-pong ball shrines and make sacrifices at them, like broken ping-pong paddles, or burning Peaches in effigy--LPA

by pookeyguru on Apr 18, 2008 12:11 PM PDT up 0 recs

And there you have it.

Refer to my comment in the previous post… what two things I said martin needed to do? Work on team defense which he said he will do this summer… and grow some balls.

Now he has grown the balls, good luck on practicing defense this summer Kevin, the purple 23 is still my favorite jersey.

P.S. If you didn’t figure it out yet Theus… You need to seriously re-evaluate your position on Kevin Martin, he is the present, and the future… not just the latter.

by dkons21 on Apr 18, 2008 9:30 AM PDT 0 recs

Dang straight

Apparantly likes players that tell him what substance he is full of. Ladies and gentlemen, introducing Kevin Martin, your new team leader. Reggie, put some more gel in your hair and get out of the way.

by SavageBeast on Apr 18, 2008 9:39 AM PDT up 0 recs

Here's a project for someone.

Look back at the games we lost by say 6-8 points in which both martin and artest played. Then have a subsection of games we lost by one possession. If it is at all possible find out who took the last shot in the single possession games, and the last shots in the 2-3 possession games.

Compare who had the ball in their hands Artest, or Martin. Now compare those losses to similar wins. That should provide some interesting statistics to back up the point further.

by dkons21 on Apr 18, 2008 9:46 AM PDT 0 recs

I Didn't Do That

But I did run some numbers about a week ago on W-L records when Ron, Kevin and Brad shoot more or less than their average number of attempts. It showed the team does better when Kevin and Brad shoot more than average and when Ron shoots less. When I get some time I’ll lay this out in more detail.

I will say that Kevin went out of his way to say this is a thing between him and Theus and not him and Artest. He wants to play with Artest, probably because he’s not interested in a lot more years of losing.

I think there was also a comment by Reggie that Ron made the right pass out of the double team 80% of the time, or something like that. That might be a little high, but if you read some folks here you’d think he never passed the ball, and that’s BS.

They are a talented tandem, and if they both do a little more of what they do well, I think the Kings will surprise some folks next season.

by coolcatreportdotcom on Apr 19, 2008 12:48 AM PDT up 0 recs

Blessing In Disguise

I see this as exactly what Kevin needed. That’s the fire everybody wants to see from the kid. I don’t know whether or not that was Reggie’s intentions, but i think his stupid comments proved that Kevin is ready and willing to become “The Guy”. and thats what this team needs.

NBA: Where your dreams are shattered happens.

by ChicoKing on Apr 18, 2008 9:57 AM PDT 0 recs

Summer School

Kev, improve your ball-handling and your defense and demand the ball at the end of the game like Kobe does and it’ll all be good.

Life is every mammal's journey from very very wet to very very dry.

by Holmdel on Apr 18, 2008 10:18 AM PDT up 0 recs

FUCK YEAH KEV!!!!

This is the shit that i wished you would be doing and saying. when i read this i jumped out of my chair and started screaming “FUCK YEAH KEV! FUCK YEAH! Theus, you might want to get the fuck out of the way of the next Superstar in this league. It takes balls to become a superstar and kev took a huge step towards that. it seems he’s tired of all the ron-ron in the crunch time and taking bad shots bullshit.

Pardon my bad language, but this quote really pumped me up.

when will the Kenny Thomas Reign of Terror end?!!??

by diehardkingsfan5 on Apr 18, 2008 11:01 AM PDT 0 recs

Just to play Devil's advocate

Does Kevin draw a double team in the crunch? Ron can… even though he will probably just turn it over even if left ungaurded.

by Mityt on Apr 18, 2008 11:32 AM PDT 0 recs

No he doesn't

Because he’s not being given the ball enough. If he starts nailing more clutch shots then they’ll have to double him. But, the fact that he doesn’t draw double teams in the final moments is even more reason to give him the ball.

As far as Ron is concerned: he draws double teams because he demands the ball during crunch time and teams know that they can force the turnover because he’ll never pass it. He’d rather take a horrible shot and brick it, or get the ball stolen, then pass it to someone who can make it. Just another difference between Mr. Efficient and Mr. Fucking Insane.

by vfettke on Apr 18, 2008 1:22 PM PDT up 0 recs

I get your point, but

if you look at the stats TZ referred to yesterday, Ron’s shooting % (58%) is actually higher during crunch time than is Kevin’s. Kevin gets to the line more often and, of course, shoots a very high %. Let’s not exaggerate in the other direction either. Reggie’s comment was silly (unless what he really meant was “throwing” it to the low-post, in which case he is correct. ) He has a couple of guys that can score in the clutch. And, yes, you are correct that Ron needs to become a better passer out of the double-team. And everybody here is correct is saying that Kevin is our best scorer. It’s really not even worthy of a debate it’s so obvious.

by Kusian on Apr 18, 2008 2:43 PM PDT up 0 recs

He does draw their best defender

There are multiple games that I can recall last year where teams basically face-guarded Kevin with their best defender. During what I belive was the last game with the Rockets (I could be wrong), the opponenets were basically begging Ron to take the last few shots. Completely face gaurding Martin, and giving tons of space to Ron.
Its not just that one game either, it was most games.

Wait....Why is everybody clapping? Everyone around me is clapping.... I guess I should be clapping too... GO LAKERS!!! I hate living in So Cal

by 27freethrows on Apr 18, 2008 1:42 PM PDT up 0 recs

Too bad

that there’s an internal crisis right after the end of the season. Reggie definately had a great rookie season, but he’s got to pick his words better. It’s another fight for an unnecessary comment.
I’m almost scared of what K-mart said. He must really angry to say stuff like that, I’ve never seen him brag about his skills before.
On the other hand, I’m glad, ‘cause the team need Martin as a leader and maybe this will be the beggining of it.

by Line_Brazil on Apr 18, 2008 11:51 AM PDT 0 recs

Theus

All his comment made through the press about his players remind we of a couple other coaches, Phil Jackson and Pat Riley. I was just wondering if Theus is trying to emulate those two because of their success. If this turns to be true, he needs to realize one thing, HE’S REGGIE THEUS! Not a HOF’er.

NBA: Where your dreams are shattered happens.

by ChicoKing on Apr 18, 2008 12:27 PM PDT 0 recs

Neither were Phil or Pat before they coached Magic/Kareem/Michael/Scottie

We could build ping-pong ball shrines and make sacrifices at them, like broken ping-pong paddles, or burning Peaches in effigy--LPA

by pookeyguru on Apr 18, 2008 12:42 PM PDT up 0 recs

I like it

i really hope kevin figures out that being the number 1 option often means they have to demand the ball, nice or not. If he wants to be the best, which i think he does, he will need to have that killer mentality.

Hey you never know, this all could be planned by Theus to make Kmart into the cold-blooded player he needs to be.

by kingsTV on Apr 18, 2008 1:39 PM PDT 0 recs

So I've been dwelling on this all day now...

I’ve got a few things I just have to say outloud for the sake of my sanity.

1 to restate, Congradulations Kevin Martin on flexing the Juevos. I really mean that. 2 I’ve been trying to figure out if this is an Artest issue, or a Theus issue. Kevin Martin himself has said he wants Artest around and compares it to the Carmelo/A.I. combination. I like that. Theus on the other hand needs to stop playing media jockey. Yes we like communication, we like updates, we like constructive analysis of the team as often as possible. However, these statements are blatently detrimental to Kevin Martin’s development as I see it.

He already has the drive to be the best, he puts it all on the court, in the weight-room, and everywhere else. He has both the dedication and determination to be the best he can be. The only thing those comments did besides stroke Artest’s ego before the contract negotiations was throw dirt in Kevin’s eyes. I mean how do you tell one of your best players that they don’t deserve the same respect, the same opportunity as another player under similar circumstances.

I was trying to find something I could compare, and the only thing I could think of was Kobe calling out Andrew Bynum last summer… except Bynum sucked… he wasn’t even a shadow of his current abilities. This can’t pose a similar situation. Kevin is already GREAT, he already TRIES, and he already HELPS the team. I don’t think you can actually push Kevin to be better than he already is, but maybe you can push him to open his mouth, and hopefully it will be for the better.

You get a huge thumbs down on this issue Reggie…there are rookie mistakes that are expected, then there are rookie mistakes that are Grade-A Stupid, this is one of those mistakes.

P.S.

Kevin if you read this, and you’re ever in RI, make me the happiest kings fan alive and sign my purple 23 jersey!

by dkons21 on Apr 18, 2008 4:07 PM PDT 0 recs

Fellas....Fellas...

I have been reading all the above comments and I havn’t seen anyone bring up the most valid point yet regarding this situation.

Along with the consensus, I agree that Theus probobly should not have gone public with that statement, regardless of whether it lit a fire under Kevin’s ass or not. Its an interesting tactic by a rookie coach, possibly imitating the great Phil Jackson and Riley etc (Great point by the way ChicoKing)

However….

Maybe he was right!!!... There is no doubt that throughout the course of a game, Kevin is far and away the most consistent/fluid/potent offensive weapon we have. I dont think there is any denying that, and I’m sure that Theus would agree with that statement.

On the other hand….

Artest is without question the “hardest cover on the Kings”. (Possibly one of the hardest covers in the NBA) Think about it….. He is way too strong for a 3….and way to agile/quick for a 4….I can only think of a few players at either position in the NBA who I would feel comfortable guarding him if I were an opposing coach (Battier,Bowens etc)...”Hard covers” like Artest can draw doubles easily, which opens the court for the other players (Insert Kevin)

If we are talking a 1 or 2 possesion stectch to end a game….. The SMART thing to do is go to your “hardest cover” and let him create. That is coaching philosophy 101 practiced from Middle School on. Now, with that being said, you need a “hard cover” who is willing to dish it off to an open man if necessary .(Think Jordan to Kerr to kill the Jazz in the Finals) Will Artest learn to be a capable teammate in the final possesions of games? possibly…only time will tell…

But I do agree with Theus in that on the final possesion or two of a game, you give the ball to Artest….that is until Kevin can prove he can draw/dip out of a double team.

by Hoops916 on Apr 18, 2008 4:14 PM PDT 0 recs

Artest doesn't

But I do agree with Theus in that on the final possesion or two of a game, you give the ball to Artest….that is until Kevin can prove he can draw/dip out of a double team

That’s the big problem. Artest DOESN”T pass out of the double-team. He DOESN”T create. He dribbles in or backs down and either gets stripped or blocked. He might be our “hardest cover” but he’s also our easiest, because if other teams have scouted us at all, they see that they can double or triple Artest freely because he won’t give up the ball.

TickTickTickTickTickTick

by LeaguePassAddict on Apr 18, 2008 4:32 PM PDT 1 recs

again...enough with the exaggeration

“That’s the big problem. Artest DOESN"T pass out of the double-team. He DOESN"T create. He dribbles in or backs down and either gets stripped or blocked. “

What’s up with all this black and white BS. If your argument is that he doesn’t pas out of the double-team ENOUGH or than he needs to IMPROVE in his passing out the low block double-team, then you have a valid point. However, he does pass out of it at times and, in fact, has improved over the course of the past two seasons. Nor does he he only get stripped or blocked when he is in the low post getting double teamed. Again, as I noted earlier, Ron shoots a higher % than Kevin in crunch time. So, he obviously is not always getting stripped or blocked. In fact, Ron is a fairly effective low post scorer – especially for a SF. And, then you say he doesn’t “create?” Really? Are you fucking kidding me? Do you even watch the games? I’ve watched him create off the dribble the entire damn year. In fact, he has much better handles than Martin. Now, he turns the ball over more because he does more bone-headed shit than the ultra-conservative Kevin; but to say he doesn’t create is just plain silly. We’ve all watched him do it each and every game.

The amount of hyperbole in this string is overwhelming. (Otis, Section: please inject sanity.) Perhaps, it demonstrates what a polarizing figure Artest is. I mentioned before that when folks speak of Ron, it reminds of the ridiculous crap I had to listen to regarding Webber – about how “terrible” he was and how he didn’t do this or that…blah, blah, blah. It wasn’t until he was gone that people paused, reflected for a bit and had to admit that “hey, I guess that dude was pretty damn good.” Yeah, 20/10/4 isn’t bad. Ron isn’t Webber, but don’t make him out to be some worthless scrub either. A dose of reflection and perspective never hurts.

by Kusian on Apr 18, 2008 5:30 PM PDT up 0 recs

As always -

It comes down to which Ron you are talking about. The fact that there is a “good Ron” fortifies the fact that he can create and pass out of the double team and dominate on both ends of the floor. The fact that there is a “bad Ron” fortifies the fact that he doesn’t always do it (or is on the floor to do it).

SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Apr 18, 2008 5:39 PM PDT up 1 recs

yeah

There was a point earlier in the season, maybe two games in a row, where Ron was passing out of the double in the post. He got like 8 and 10 assists. It was perfect, but we don’t see that often enough. And late in the game, in a we really need a basket situation, we almost never see it. That’s where the hyperbole comes in.

by Kfan in Korea on Apr 18, 2008 6:03 PM PDT up 0 recs

Applaud..

Agreed Kusian… Hopefully I helped a bit by injecting some sanity for ya. I couldnt agree more with you on this issue!

by Hoops916 on Apr 18, 2008 6:10 PM PDT up 0 recs

I never said

Artest is a worthless scrub. You’re indulging in a little hyperbole of your own.

How’s this for moderated, temperate speech: It has been my observation over this past season that Mr. Artest has a marked tendency to, when faced with a double-team, lose posession of the ball either by having it stolen or blocked, or putting up a shot that has little chance of going in in the hopes of drawing a foul. Not that he does it every time he touches the ball, mind you, just that he does it often enough for someone like me (a female, somewhat casual observer who is often distracted by children, dogs and a very affectionate spouse) to observe it and remark on it. When Mr. Artest does manage to create by passing out of the double-team, I applaud the effort as much as anyone, but find myself more often than not asking “why doesn’t he do that more often?”

Hope that clarifies my position.

TickTickTickTickTickTick

by LeaguePassAddict on Apr 18, 2008 8:44 PM PDT up 1 recs

that's a reasonable position

because the fact is that most of us – me included – have a tendency to remember the negative. And I agree with you that Ron does the things you mentioned enough to that a person is likely to remember them – or at least the tendency toward those lapses in judgement. Just remember that Ron – despite his faults – is our best player. And he is one the league’s best two-way player’s. He is a tremendous talent who is, unfortunately, a bit loco.

by Kusian on Apr 19, 2008 1:44 AM PDT up 0 recs

I respect what you have to say but I don't necessarily agree across the board with it

But I’ll leave you’re respectful conversation alone now and waddle off in my Artest hating direction.

We could build ping-pong ball shrines and make sacrifices at them, like broken ping-pong paddles, or burning Peaches in effigy--LPA

by pookeyguru on Apr 19, 2008 1:57 AM PDT up 0 recs

This isn't about Artest

Theus said we only have one guy who we can “throw the ball to.” We say, “No you don’t, you have two, and not only that, but statistically the one you don’t think you have is better than the one you did discuss.” That’s what this is about, not insisting Artest is worthless.

by Ziller on Apr 19, 2008 6:54 AM PDT up 0 recs

Theus is trying to keep his Job

By making these idiotic comments my guess is, Theus is trying to tell management he can’t win without Ron. He is throwing Martin under the bus so that he can look like a victum if they trade Ron and if they off Ronny more Monny then Theus has more talent to work with.

This bashing Martin CRAP really has affected my view of Theus.

If LA fell into the sea would anyone Really miss it??

by Cowbell Addict on Apr 19, 2008 7:06 AM PDT 0 recs