Baseless Ron Artest Trade Rumors, v2.0
by section214 on May 20, 2008 2:46 PM PDT
in Ron-Ron
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Following up on the Josh Howard for Ron Artest rumors, allow me to submit one of my own design. I toss this out more to gauge your feelings as it pertains to Ron-Ron's value.
T.J. Ford has to leave Toronto. The town ain't big enough for him and Jose Calderon, and I'm betting the Raptors keep Calderon. For what it's worth, Ford was 6th in Hollinger's PER rankings for point guards this year (Calderon was 5th, Beno Udrih 30th).
Ford has two years plus and option year (his). The three years total $25.8 million, which probably makes him about $2-3 million a year more expensive than Udrih. Ford is due to make $8.275 million this year, so an Artest for Ford deal would work from a dollars standpoint. And though Ford has had a couple of significant injuries in his brief career, he has still played in a higher percentage of his team's games than Artest (though the percentages are almost identical if you back out Ron's Detroit brawl suspension).
Toronto does have Jamario Moon at small forward, but you would have to think the Raptors could be at least a little interested in a guy with Artest's unique skill set, especially with division rivals like Paul Pierce, Richard Jefferson and/or Vince Carter, and Andre Iguodala.
So -
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There is literally no way Colangelo trades Calderon, let alone for Artest.
by Ziller on May 20, 2008 3:00 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes
I’d do it, and I might even include a second rounder. Ford’s an upgrade over Udrih now and possibly later, and fits in with the whole high octane offense thing we’ve got going with most of our youngsters. Also, trading Artest for Ford and letting Udrih walk saves some cash, which might allow you more flexibility in any cap-clearing maneuvers involving Miller, K-9 (woof!) or Reef.
Toronto might be more interested in Salmons, though. (They almost signed him the week before we did sign him … and the kid’s only improved since then.) Something like Salmons and Moore for Ford or Salmons and Douby for Ford could be made to work with a little tinkering. This would likely require Artest to be kept in the near term, or Artest to fetch a small forward in return, or a small forward to be drafted to back up Garcia.
by Ziller on May 20, 2008 3:13 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I voted yes for these reasons
I would do that trade if Josh Howard isn’t available to be had for the Kings. Ford won’t have many takers, and as a backup in a trade, it is worth doing.
Now I like the deal, especially if you’re bringing in a player like Westbrook. or if you pick high enough Rose or Bayyless.
I agree with TZ’s synopsis if you’re looking to let Udrih go, and still have a top quality PG out there for the interim. Ford’s health not withstanding, he’s a very good player who can help a team win games. He’s also a pass first player who plays his heart out every night. The thing is, with Calderon’s emergence, is that the Raptors have to make a decision. If it weren’t for that, and the looming tax factor for the Raptors, it would be hard to see them trade either guy truthfully. I can see Salmons being moved for Ford, and having Moore, and a cheap throw in from the Raps end, being worked in also.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
by pookeyguru on May 20, 2008 3:35 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Originally Voted NO but have been swayed
Initially I was concerned about Ford’s health (as has also been noted by others), but while reading the comments and thinking about it, I’ve changed my mind.
I agree with both Pookey & TZ and think that these ideas could even be combined.
What if a Salmons/Moore for Ford deal could be made in conjunction with an Artest for Howard deal? The bench gets a little thin, and if GP drafts a PG (to back up Ford) then the 4 is still suspect (although why not just run out Miller at the 4 and give Hawes time at the 5?), but this would be a significant change to the lineup, and could turn things around for the franchise.
Ford, Martin, Howard, Miller, Hawes
Westbrook?, Douby, Garcia, Sheldon, 2 2nds, & filler off the bench
Team salary stays about the same (less considering that you’re not signing Beno), or if you can sign Beno and draft a 4 then the roster looks even better.
I still like the idea of going after Miami’s pick if Rose is available (as mentioned in another thread – Artest, Douby, #12, 2nd (#42?), Top 10 protected 2010 1st), but this would be one great contingency plan since the #2 is really a “pie in the sky” type of situation.
Just find a taker for K9/SAR and we’re all set!
by smgmatt on May 22, 2008 9:18 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
A Possibility from Toronto's end
Could be Brad Miller/John Salmons for TJ Ford for Rasho Nesterovic.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
by pookeyguru on May 22, 2008 10:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Neat Idea
And Rasho is expiring contract.
Miller would work well up front with Bosh. Toronto wanted Salmons before, though I wonder how they feel about him since he spurned them at the 11th hour, and I wonder if they would be concerned about his attitude as it pertains to coming to Toronto.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
by section214 on May 23, 2008 8:18 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You read my mind before I even thought it!
I was just talking to a coworker about using Miller/Rasho to get Ford.
Does that make you the future me or am I your past you?
The mind boggles.
by smgmatt on May 23, 2008 2:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Risky business...
Ford gets hurting buttering toast. He has a player option which ties up 10 mill during the 2010 off-season which makes him a non-option. If you can dump Salmons and another contract that runs into that year then it works but taking on an additional 4 million during the Kings free-agency dream season isn’t responsible for a guy who has missed 150+ games over a 5 year career with a career threatening injury.
Hot dogs, get your hot dogs.
by jjham15 on May 20, 2008 3:53 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
But as 214 notes, Ford plays as often as Artest. You certainly need a good backup with Ford, but I’d argue he’s worth the risk of injury (which can strike anyone).
by Ziller on May 20, 2008 4:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
But....
to back him up your going to have to pay out 4-6 mill for Beno if he would even re-sign after a Ford trade. The Kings can’t afford to go forward with 15 mill in point guard pay role. I understand that injuries can strike anyone but come on, Ford has a structural defect in his neck which caused him to miss over a hundred games in a row after the initial injury. This season he sat out 25+ games with a re-occurrence of the same injury. Its not like your gambling on SAR who had never missed a game do to knee issues, this is an injury that has forced him to contemplate retirement.
And…you didn’t answer the issue about adding 4+ mill in pay role during the 2010 season not to mention the addition money needed to support Ford with a big money back-up. I have definitely expressed my opinion regarding the mid-level exemption being the down fall of the mediocre NBA team. Adding Ford at this point (if traded for Salmons) is paramount to signing another 3 year MLA contract on top of the one your giving up.
If Ford was healthy, I like the deal but taking on another potentially dead contract that runs a year into the big plan is not responsible. Now…if this is a sign and trade for Calderon?
Hot dogs, get your hot dogs.
by jjham15 on May 20, 2008 9:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If you acquire Ford
You don’t resign Beno. You either draft a young PG to develop (Augustin/Westbrook) or you sign a veteran for a couple million (and there are plenty available this year). Udrih wouldn’t want to play behind Ford and wait for an injury anyway.
You’re right about adding to the 2010 payroll, but the Kings stand to have less than $30 million committed to Martin, Salmons (his last year), Garcia (if extended), Hawes and the next couple of draft picks. Even with Ford and filler they would still have plenty of room to add a franchise player plus. Also, he is only on the books for 2010 if he exercises his option, and if the Kings did not want him at that point he could be tradeable expiring contract.
Ford is healthy now. But like Artest, that is no guarantee as to how he will be next week. I like this trade to the tune of about 50.1%. Just like the Richmond/Webber and Artest/Peja deals, it is certainly not without risk.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
by section214 on May 20, 2008 9:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
With Fords history, you have to have soemone capable....
of playing as a full time starter. I would just as well have Breven Knight for 2 million a year (older but similar to Ford) to back-up Beno and deal Salmons/Artest for a draft pick. This would keep the cap space going forward to sign two big name FA, which I believe is the only way the Kings lure 1 big name FA. 30 million is nice in theory but realistically the Kings are not going to be a destination location (without a new stadium and even then?). If the Kings can tie two players together (Wade/Amare-Bosh/Johnson), sell them on turning the franchise around as a combo with a stud like Martin and some nice peripheral players (Garcia, Hawes, Beno, Draft picks), I think the Kings might be more attractive.
Hot dogs, get your hot dogs.
by jjham15 on May 20, 2008 10:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Knight, similar to Ford? You must be joking. When healthy, Ford’s a top 6 point guard. Knight shouldn’t start ever at this point.
by Ziller on May 21, 2008 9:49 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
jjham -
I was going to ask you if you’ve seen Ford play, but the viable answer would be “No – he’s always been hurt!!!”
You bring up many good points (though comparing Ford to Knight is like comparing Beno to AJ), and you may be right. But if Ford is and could stay healthy, he would be (by a wide margin) the biggest haul that the Kings could hope to get for Artest.
Again, I’m not completely sold on this idea, either (and it was my idea!). But the thought of Ford running an up tempo game with Martin and Garcia/Salmons at the wings is pretty intriguing, no? And with a true pass first point guard Brad Miller becomes a little less important to the offense, clearing the way for more playing time for Hawes.
Just a thought…
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
by section214 on May 21, 2008 10:21 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree, Ford, when healthy would be a great fit.
The risk-reward just isn’t there for a team looking to rebuild and be back in a position to compete in two years. Knight is a poor mans Ford, good passer, ball handler,and steal guy with a bad jump shot. Sure Ford is better, but in the end I would trust a combo of Udrih and Knight on the cheap over nearly 30 million owed to Ford when the Kings aren’t going to be a playoff team either way. Give me a draft pick for Salmons or Artest and lets build the right way. Call me crazy but I look at Ford as a potential franchise killer a la Ralph Sampson.
Hot dogs, get your hot dogs.
by jjham15 on May 21, 2008 10:32 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think Ford is a plan for the Kings to move forward in the sense
that he could buy time for a young PG to develop behind him. Otherwise, what’s the point of bringing him in to back up Beno?
(Let me point out that Ford’s contract would end before the extension for a player like Westbrook would kick in too. That would be one reason to dissuade from doing such a deal. Ford’s deal is somewhat prohibitive, but Austin Croshere contract status it’s not.)
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
by pookeyguru on May 22, 2008 10:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Do it!
for all the reasons mentioned above, and because it is time for us to see if Kmart can handle being the man. And that will not happen until we get a coach to stand up to Artest or Artest is gone.
Section 214 is one lucky schmoe
by Kfan in Korea on May 20, 2008 4:48 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
The take
from a Toronto beat reporter. He mentions Ford about halfway through the article. His scenario includes a possible Ford/Haslem deal with Miami, which works if Chicago drafts Rose and the Heat wind up with Beasley. It makes less sense if the Heat wind up with Rose.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
by section214 on May 22, 2008 7:52 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
It all hinges on Chicago
But hey, if they get Rose that means that the Kings have a better shot at either:
(a) Acquiring Ford
(b) Acquiring Rose if Miami’s interested in trading the #2
If Miami gets Beasley and makes this deal, that’s pretty much an instant rebuild:
Ford, Wade, Marion, Beasley, Blount?
by smgmatt on May 22, 2008 9:23 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Supposedly
Rose is the guy that Miami wants – they would only consider trading the #2 pick if Chicago takes Rose. Of course, we are talking about a club run by Satan, so this could all be a cloud of pagan smoke.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
by section214 on May 22, 2008 9:36 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Needs to happen before the draft
I don’t think that there will be a draft-day trade for the #2 overall pick (this year). My feeling is that a trade like that would have to happen before Chicago makes their selection. That’s what I meant when I wrote that the Kings would have a better shot at getting Rose.
I’ve read conflicting reports as to who Miami likes better, but they all seem to insist that whichever guy they do like, they have practically zero interest in the other guy (which I think is only speculation to justify Miami putting the 1b pick on the trade block).
by smgmatt on May 22, 2008 10:14 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
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