A Geoff Petrie Stunner
You won't believe this.
"You know," the Kings' basketball president said, "when the season starts, we're going to have to have some point guards."
Geoff Petrie, you bold bold man.
In all seriousness, The Bee's Scott Howard-Cooper sets the scene w/r/t the Kings and their point guard prospects. He narrows the draft field at the position and in the Kings' current draft slot to D.J. Augustin and Russell Westbrook, and notes the strengths and weaknesses of each. Re: Westbrook:
Westbrook is the contrast, for better and worse, a spectacular athlete who is bigger (6-foot-3, according to UCLA) and will physically dominate opponents on offense and would be the best defensive player in the Kings' backcourt on the first day of camp. But he has little experience at point guard, meaning he would need time to grow into the role.
While I earlier lamented the absurd abuse heaped on shooting point guards, it might actually work in our favor here. Chris Paul showed the world a small PG could thrive in the current NBA (thanks, hand-check rules!), and the (mistaken) assumption he and Deron Williams are each as pure a distributor as Nash and Kidd (by virtue of their obscene assist totals) could cause teams to give extra credence to their anti-combo bias.
Westbrook's a lot closer to combo than Augustin. If Paul's ascension (in part) causes Indiana or another top-11 chooser to take D.J. over Russell, we win.
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Please please please don't let it be Augustin
One would think it’s easy to have a low turnover rate when you can’t create shots for anyone else by taking falling away 15 footers and shooting 43%... but for some reason he doesn’t
No Augustin?
Yah, he can’t create shots for anybody. That’s why he only averages a couple assists a game. Oh wait, he averages SIX per game? Two better than Westbrook. Well his shooting is 43% but not on just fadaway 15 footers. 35% of his FG attempts are from the 3-pt line, where he shoots 39%. Also, Beno Udrih is a career 44% FG shooter and he is not too bad a PG last time I looked. DJ is 4 years younger. I am not a huge fan of DJ but I don’t think he would be a terrible choice at pick12 if the Kings are looking for a PG.
He can shoot, and he looks great in a suit. Hey, everybody - It's REGGIE TIME!
Yep no Augustin
I live in Texas so I get to see quite a bit of Big12 bastketball. If I had to go with my gut I’d have to say pass on DJ. Granted if he were the best available at #12 then you’d have to pick him up but I really hope Petrie goes somewhere other than him. While he his quite fast, he really has to be or he is ineffective. He consistently gets his shot blocked or altered because of his lack of size. This doesn’t hurt CP3, another small PG but Augustin you sir are no CP3.
I may be wrong. I certainly am not the best judge of college talent but what I saw of DJ was not flattering. I honestly believe he will be a lottery bust. If you are obsessed with Longhorn PGs then trade for TJ Ford. At least he can make it in the L (if he can stay out of the ICU that is).
Careful when comparing FG%
I believe it was TZ that listed the FG stats for Paul & Williams . . . both of which dropped about 10% from college when they got into the league.
I’m not saying draft him or don’t draft him . . . just be careful which stats you choose to compare when making your argument.
I’m not saying he’s terrible, he’s just undersized and slow for a lotto pick. He dominated the ball in Barnes’ offense, he had great finishers in James and Abrams some of the other guys at UT. I’m actually going to school there right now, so I’ve watched most of their games, I just don’t want the Kings to use their top pick on him
I Pretty Much Agree
I too don’t want the Kings to pick DJ. I would much rather that they take a PF such as Kevin Love, Marreese Speights, Tyler Hansbrough or Jason Thompson. Russell Westbrook is overrated just like Corey Brewer was last year. I had Corey WAY lower than everyone else. Westbrook is in the same category this year for me as Corey was last year. Can Russell become a very good PG someday? Yah but the Kings don’t need a PG to blossom in 5 or 6 years from now, they need one to blossom much sooner. I don’t see a PG in the draft at 12th position ready to do that.
He can shoot, and he looks great in a suit. Hey, everybody - It's REGGIE TIME!
about Wetbrook's numbers
When looking at Westbrook’s numbers you guys need to realize his role in the disciplined offense run at UCLA (FYI I’m a UCLA fan and I watched every game this year). Darren Collison handles the ball like 75% of the time and initiates the offense. Westbrook was used more as a finisher than a ball handler or distributor. That’s why he didn’t average many assists over the season. However, during the season Darren got hurt and Russell had to take over the PG duties for a time. He has the ability to handle the rock and you could tell that he was completely unselfish and a fiery leader for the team. I would have no problems picking Russell and letting him develop into the PG of the future. He won’t step in and be a CP3 right away, but if he plays behind Beno and learns from him then it should work out great.
by thekangarooster on May 29, 2008 11:57 AM PDT reply actions
I mean Westbrook in the title, sorry
nt
by thekangarooster on May 29, 2008 11:58 AM PDT up reply actions
At least you didn't call him Westwood
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
I Don't Get It
Here’s what I DO get:
1. Westbrook’s role was more of a “finisher than a ball handler or distributor” at UCLA.
2. Westbrook only took over the PG duties when Collison was injured.
3. During all of last season, Westbrook NEVER tallied double figure assists in a game, including when Collison was out injured.
4. As a PG who handled and distributed the ball less than Collison, Westbrook committed more turnovers.
5. If Darren Collison were in the draft this year, he would be expected to be drafted in about the same spot as Westbrook.
Here’s what I don’t get:
After looking at the above 5 facts, Why do some Kings fans want Petrie to pick Westbrook to be the Kings #1 PG when he couldn’t even beat out Darren Collison (a good not fantasic player) for that job on a NCAA basketball team?
Sorry, but I think it could be a big mistake to draft him at #12 over a couple nice looking PF prospects.
He can shoot, and he looks great in a suit. Hey, everybody - It's REGGIE TIME!
I didn't see them play a lot this year...
...but good college players in general do not always become good NBA players as well.
A (fair?) comparison to this situation is Kirk Hinrich, who played SG at Kansas with Aaron Miles at PG.
From Aaron Miles’ Wikipedia page:
He went to the University of Kansas, where he starred at point guard, leading the Jayhawks to two final fours and an appearance in the national championship game. He is the all-time assists leader (954 assists) of both Kansas and the Big 12 Conference.
Sounds pretty good (and similar to recent success at UCLA), until you read this:
He was released by the Golden State Warriors in January 2006 before contract became guaranteed, and played for the Fort Worth Flyers in the NBA Development League for the remainder of that season. ... and currently playing for Spanish ACB club Cajasol Sevilla.
Between these two, who would you rather have manning point for your NBA franchise now?
Full disclosure: I took the Wikipedia information out of order to help illustrate my point.
I Understand Your Point
Here is my argument:
Hinrich was a top 10 prospect for the 2003 draft while Aaron Miles went undrafted and was not considered a top prospect by anybody. Darren Collison IS considered a top 15 pick and Westbrook is not considered a top 10 draft pick in almost all of the mock drafts.
Also, let’s compare Westbrook’s statistics with Hinrich’s in each of their sophomore years:
RW: 33.8 min, 12.7 ppg, 4.3 apg/2.5 tpg, 3.9 rpg, 1.6 spg, 46.5 FG%, 33.8 3-pt%
KH: 32.7 min, 11.5 ppg, 6.9 apg/3.4 tpg, 4.1 rpg, 1.3 spg, 50.0 FG%, 50.5 3-pt%
Aaron Miles was the PG for Kansas but unlike Collison that was about all he could do! Collison can score, Miles couldn’t. Miles was ONLY a distributor. He could not have played the SG role if he had wanted to. Collison can play the SG role if the coaching staff felt that was where he was better suited but they chose to put Darren in the role of PG over Westbrook. Even with Miles running the point, Hinrich averaged nearly 7 assists and shot 50% from three. Hinrich also had two big scorers above him in Drew Gooden and Nick Collison (Collison here too? Creepy), so scoring 11.5 is just as good as Westbrook’s 12.7.
Even with Collison playing the PG for UCLA, he only averaged 3.8 assists. Seems like if Westbrook was such a great PG, he would have been the main playmaker. Collison is average at it compared to what Miles was yet he gets the nod over Westbrook. If Hinrich would have played the PG, Miles would have had to be his backup coming off the bench but there was nobody else to play the small forward role so Kansas had to keep Miles in the starting line-up.
Either way, Hinrich is a nice player but is he a great PG? Not really. I don’t see Westbrook being even as good as Hinrich. I just hope the Kings don’t take him with other, better, PF prospects out there.
He can shoot, and he looks great in a suit. Hey, everybody - It's REGGIE TIME!
Well
I wasn’t trying to say that Westbrook is the next Hinrich, I was primarily using Hinrich as an example of a college SG that became a pro PG.
Just our of curiosity (I don’t feel like looking it up – but if you want to I’d like to see), what were the assist numbers like for the big men involved? Collison & Gooden aren’t really known for their passing skills (that I know of), and yet Kevin Love is universally considered a great passer. If there were Vlade/Webber-like assists coming from Love, then that would explain the lower number of assists coming from the starting guards, especially if they could score (they could have been on the other end of those assists).
Like I said, I haven’t seen the numbers, it’s just a thought.
Thanks for the info, though, it was a very interesting read.
Assist Numbers
Interestingly, Gooden averaged 1.7 assists that season. Only 0.2 less than Kevin Love this season. Kevin is a very good passer but he’s not a playmaker like a Vlade or Brad Miller. He possibly could become one in the right offense but at UCLA he is used more as a scorer/rebounder even though he is a good passer. Nick Collison averaged 2.2 assists. During that season it was Hinrich (6.9 assists) with the most assists on the team.
I would not be surprised to see Westbrook average 6 or more assists in the NBA someday, I just don’t know if he is going to be worth a #12 pick. It’s possible he could become very good, I just worry about the negatives. Too risky in my opinion.
He can shoot, and he looks great in a suit. Hey, everybody - It's REGGIE TIME!
Thanks for the info
You stated your opinion very well. It’ll be interesting to see what happens on draft night.
Score one for the draft guru
Which PF prospects minus Kevin Love do you prefer sir?
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
Westbrook @ 12?
I agree with you dalt99. Westbrook seems like a big mistake for Sac at 12 with the PF prospects that should be available. At 12, Augustin may (may) be ok as a productive PG early in his NBA career, but the PF prospects fill a bigger need and show more promise for early production. That includes PFs estimated to go way lower than 12…Jason Thompson, Joey Dorsey, etc.
Counterpoint Questions
If there are PF prospects “way lower than 12”, then mightn’t it be prudent to pick up a better PG at 12 and then get those PF prospects later?
Where are the depth positions in this draft (it’s usually swing guards)?
Which is the deeper need position (PF)?
What is the drop off for PG prospects versus PF prospects that late in the draft?
Do you think that the Kings should pick up multiple PF prospects (at the cost of a young PG) for a better chance at getting the right one? This could be worth the gamble if one of your picks pays off (like Boozer – high 2nd Rounder), but is that a risk you’re advocating? That puts a lot of eggs in the “Resign Beno” basket.
This brings up the age-old draft question of “best available” vs. “need”.
Answers?
Yes, that’d be prudent. I’d love to see Petrie get a good young PG and then get Joey Dorsey and one of DJ White, JJ Hickson, Devon Hardin? or whoever else you’ve seen play enough to think they’ll come into the league with focus and effort on defending/rebounding/shotblocking like I feel Dorsey will. If Sac drafts 2 players (“multiple”) like that, it’ll be their only 2. The problem is, I don’t think Westbrook is “a better PG at 12”. Definately not a god send. He’s often refered to a player who may or may not turn into a good NBA PG…a project PG. He’s even listed as a SG sometimes. I’m hoping for a floor general, great handles, high assist-to-turnover and even some double digit assist games from the future PG, not a good slasher and finisher which is what you hear about him the most. I know he should be good defensively. He could turn out to be great but I think there are better players at PF for the 12th.
I think there is a major drop off in PGs right after Rose & Bayless, even Augustin. Who knows, the best PG in this draft may be someone besides those guys but Sac should fill the one need @ 12 where there is a choice of PFs that could assuredly help the front line.
I think the biggest need is strong, agile, athletic, defensive minded bigs. Easy right? Just draft the next Dwight Howard @ 42 and I’m happy.
I advocate the “risk” of getting as many young 4/5s as possible! I mean it all depends on what Petrie plans to do with Beno (I hope he signs him) and even Artest/Salmons (I hope he trades for a PG…TJ Ford’s ok, Calderon would be awesome, Lowry/Crittendon would work).
Ultimately, I think the higher you are in the lottery the more you pick best available not the other way around. This year if you pick first or second and don’t take Beasly or Rose regardless of “need position” you’d be fired. The lower it gets and the more of a crap shoot it is for productive, long NBA career players, the more you might as well pick the best player at your need position and hope he develops.
Westbrook
No offense, but Beno is an erratic point guard at best. I not a big Beno guy. He doesn’t strike me as a point guard you can win a championship with. I think Westbrook would be a god send at no.12
BOOK IT!
Beno vs. Westbrook
This is not an either/or situatuion. No way Westbrook is a starting NBA point guard this year (and I’m amongst the group that would love to draft him). Regardless of whether or not we draft a PG at #12, we will need Udrih (or a T.J. Ford) for at least this year, and probably next year, too.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
Being the fabolous pissant cunt that I tend to be
Last year there was some minor stumping for Roy HIbbert before he pulled out of the draft. Quite a few people around here were disappointed he did. Spencer Hawes caused one fellow to jump off the Dubai Tower, and it set off a string of hellaciouslly awful expletives by me. In other words, what we think today won’t matter until next year at this time. We can say, and argue, anything we want. The truth is we have to see all those guys on the court for a year’s time, and in quite a few cases, more than that to actually see what players have worth.
Now, that being said, this draft is not something I feel as strongly about as I did last season with Smith. I’m still concerned about Hawes injuries that it will catch up with him, but that can’t be helped. It is what it is.
I do think that no player should be a fore runner at this point. Petrie has a strong draft record, the only thing keeping from me wondering if the man deserves to be on the stake at this time, but that doesn’t mean anything if internally they’re simply looking for the best player available. What if the best player available is Joe Alexander? What do the Kings do? The point is there are so many variables here, and how Petrie navigates them is far more important than any 2010 FA decision.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
Aye Aye Cap'n
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on

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