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Around SBN: Jeff Sullivan's MLB Trade Deadline Primer

Josh Smith Anyone?

Star-divide

With Camby to the Clippers, Maggette and co. to the Warriors, and Brand to the Sixers...every potential suitor for Josh Smith has effectively withdrawn.  The only team left with significant cap space is Memphis and they're not spending this year.  So that leaves Smith with three options...sign the one-year tender, sign a long-term deal with Atlanta, hope for a sign and trade.

Smith and Mike Woodson have had a number of run-ins and it's been speculated that Smith doesn't want to play for the Hawks if Woodson is around.  Woodson just signed a two-year contract extension.  So is there an opening for some team to pry Smith out of Atlanta?  Can the Kings be that team?  Should the Kings be that team?

Smith is definitely moody, volatile, and unpredictable (sound familiar?).  But the guy is only 22 years old, might be the best shot-blocker in the league, can slide between the 3 and the 4, and fills a stat sheet like few players can.  Maybe he grows up.  Maybe he just needs to get out from under Mike Woodson.  Or maybe he blows up.  I'm not sure what happens with Smith...but I think he's worth the risk.

So why not offer Miller and Artest for Smith (signed at 5 years, 60-65MM) and that Zaza guy (1 year, 4MM left on his deal). 

Why the Kings do it: They get younger, more athletic, and a guy who can play either the 3 or the 4 depending on JT's development.  New core of Martin, Smith, JT, Hawes.  They lose out on shedding K9's salary and would actually increase their cap for next year though.

Why the Hawks do it: Top 8 rotation of Bibby, Joe Johnson, Artest, Horoford, Miller, Childress, Marvin Williams, Acie Law.  That's a top 5 team in the East, no?  Or at least close to it?  I'm sure Bibby wouldn't exactly be thrilled seeing Ron-Ron again but that team is better than the current Hawks if they simply resign Smith.

So, uh...Josh Smith anyone?

(This is a FanPost from a member of the Sactown Royalty community. The views expressed come from the member, and not Sactown Royalty staff.)

1 recs  |  Comment 46 comments |

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Make it so

"Yeah I could have been king, but maybe I already am king. Hail to the king baby." Ash from Army of Darkness

by Turambar on Jul 16, 2008 9:40 PM PDT reply actions  

good idea..

but I don’t think they would reunite Bibby and Artest.

by Ball in Cup on Jul 16, 2008 9:45 PM PDT reply actions  

yes

I’d take Smith in a heartbeat. I doubt Atlanta will be willing to part with him for our pieces though.

by thekangarooster on Jul 16, 2008 10:08 PM PDT reply actions  

Count me out...

at 12-15mil/year. I don’t think Smith is the piece to put us over the top, so why blow our whole wad on him.

by cabz on Jul 16, 2008 10:32 PM PDT reply actions  

because

that’s what she said.

Mikki Moore in the skills challenge! - LPA

by iashwash on Jul 16, 2008 10:42 PM PDT up reply actions  

i'm curious...

how do you blow less than your whole wad at once?

by Ball in Cup on Jul 16, 2008 10:42 PM PDT up reply actions  

it can be done

but first, i’ll need a snorkel, a water buffalo, (live or stuffed, preferably stuffed) and some ice cubes.

by misterbrister on Jul 17, 2008 5:53 AM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Don't forget...

the ballbearings. It’s all ballbearings these days, you know?

by rockrichmond2 on Jul 17, 2008 1:40 PM PDT up reply actions  

those go

in the Spitzer valve, right?

by misterbrister on Jul 17, 2008 2:05 PM PDT up reply actions  

HA!

If it can happen – $# yes.

eternal skeptical optimist

by lietothegirls on Jul 17, 2008 10:07 PM PDT up reply actions  

I think the Hawks would just keep him

at 12 mill per.

Mikki Moore in the skills challenge! - LPA

by iashwash on Jul 16, 2008 10:42 PM PDT reply actions  

it would be funny

if the petrie traded for bibby again, but doubt that will happen. It would be cool if the kings got josh smith. It would start to look like my 2k8 version of the kings.

by SolidWarSnake on Jul 16, 2008 11:25 PM PDT reply actions  

I agree

but like Ball in Cup said, I don’t think Atlanta would reunite Bibby and Artest. With Thompson and Hawes being our future frontline, a lot of trade scenarios don’t look as realistic as they used to.

by blako on Jul 16, 2008 11:54 PM PDT reply actions  

I agree

with what Ball in Cup questioned, how do you not blow your entire wad at once? Moving on, I would be down with Josh Smith and Joey ZaZa but I don’t see a reason in hell why anyone would want to reunite 3/5th’s of the Kings 33-49 2006-7 starting lineup.

by Travis Mays Hayes on Jul 17, 2008 1:35 AM PDT up reply actions  

I'll take a shot

06-07 Kings record: 38-44, missed the playoffs in the West
06-07 Hawks record: 37-45, 8th seed in the East, took NBA Champion Boston Celtics to a 7th game

If you take one of the two best players from the Hawks, and replaced him with three of the best four players from the Kings, it’s not a stretch to say that they could possibly be a “Top 5 team in the East” as the original post asks.

As for Atlanta not wanting to reunite Bibby & Artest, unless Bibby says something . . . how much do they really know about it? Besides, with both players in the final year of their respective contracts, they’ll likely have to put aside any differences if they want a real shot at making a run in the playoffs. Minimal risk this year, but I don’t know how much this trade helps Atlanta moving forward (would they re-sign either Bibby or Artest?).

by smgmatt on Jul 17, 2008 8:23 AM PDT up reply actions  

well you are matching

the 2007-8 lineups, which only included bibby for a short amount of time on the kings (who I believe was an addition by subtraction for the Kings). Also, the East is getting stronger so the theory might not hold up for much longer. Also, all of the Kings players included here are getting older (especially Brad).
The upside I guess is that they are either at the end or near the end of their contracts. I don’t know, I still wouldn’t do this if I was atlanta.

by Travis Mays Hayes on Jul 17, 2008 7:30 PM PDT up reply actions  

Nice catch

Sorry about the years, I made a couple of errors there. Let’s try that again…

06-07 Kings record: 33-49 (5 less wins in a stronger Western Conference)
07-08 Hawks record: 37-45 . . . same as my previous post

Anyway, I’m not suggesting it’s the best move for Atlanta (I, too, would not do it if I was running that franchise), but I was responding to your comment that you…

...don’t see a reason in hell why anyone would want to reunite 3/5th’s of the Kings 33-49 2006-7 starting lineup.

I was simply making the point that 3/5’s of a moderate starting lineup in addition to 4/5’s of a Playoff lineup could lead to a pretty good team.

by smgmatt on Jul 20, 2008 7:45 PM PDT up reply actions  

I’m down with it, but it would take a $70 million/5 year contract or an $87 million/6 year contract to get Smith to bite and the Hawks to comply, I think. And in a sign-and-trade, no one can be combined with the signee.

So you’d have to trade Miller for Smith and work a separate but connected deal with Artest. Or, you could just see if they’d do Miller. They don’t exactly need a small forward.

Smith and Thompson can probably both play some small forward (Smith moreso). Smith’s weakness is turnovers and inefficient shooting, but that’s something Martin’s high efficiency can balance.

by Ziller on Jul 17, 2008 7:28 AM PDT reply actions  

We have brought up this possibility before...

and I think it would take a three way. Either Odom or Marion will work-

Artest , K-9, Pasculia to Miami
Marion and a second (miami) to Atlanta
J. Smith to the Kings for 12 mill a yr.+ Soloman Jones

Hot dogs, get your hot dogs.

by jjham15 on Jul 17, 2008 9:00 AM PDT reply actions  

At $12M per...

Why wouldn’t Atlanta or Miami take Smith instead?

I don’t really see this happening unless contract is higher than that (i.e. higher than Atlanta/Miami will go).

by smgmatt on Jul 17, 2008 10:36 AM PDT up reply actions  

He doesn't want to play for Atlanta if Woodson is around.

And Riley loves Artest for some reason and doesn’t like Beasley or Marion. It also frees up space for the Heat in the 2010 sweepstakes which is another reason Miami won’t trade for Smith.

I like Smith, his versatility is great and so is his shot blocking ability. Matching Smith and Thomson with K-Mart for the next 5-10 years would be kick-ass. Smith is a bit of a nut job which is something to consider.

Hot dogs, get your hot dogs.

by jjham15 on Jul 17, 2008 12:08 PM PDT up reply actions  

Fair enough

I’d like Smith on the Kings, as long as he kept his head on straight . . . I just didn’t see how it could happen. You’ve now given me a reasonable scenario.

I think I’ll pass on holding my breath until he gets here, however.

by smgmatt on Jul 17, 2008 12:11 PM PDT up reply actions  

No doubt

Not everyone gets over that however.

A guy I know, we’ll call him Don Markest, is almost 30 and still hasn’t figured it out.

by smgmatt on Jul 17, 2008 12:19 PM PDT up reply actions  

You know Don too?

I find him to be misunderstood. I mean he is in the same category as Triss Saul and Toby Client.

I might also add that Jessica Alba is a championship piece, if he thinks Ron is too, more power to him. ;p -Kfan in Korea

by kangsfan on Jul 18, 2008 11:19 AM PDT up reply actions  

Definitely Misunderstood

I think he meant to say that he has the same haircut as Saul & Toby, but nobody seems to understand. Maybe an e-mail or two to the right people can clear this up once and for all.

by smgmatt on Jul 20, 2008 7:48 PM PDT up reply actions  

huh.

The only problem is that Atlanta pretty much holds all the cards on that one. The Kings want to dump Artest and get Smith. The Heat want to dump Marion and get Artest. I don’t think the Hawks want to dump Smith or get Marion (especially when he’s UFA next summer). He’s a great player, really. I just don’t see how the Hawks are interested in that deal. I’ll be interested to see what happens if there’s a team out there ready to make a real run at him. The Sixers went with the easy sign. The Clippers didn’t bother. The Grizzlies don’t seem to be interested.

Maybe Smith goes back to Atlanta for a lesser deal, considering all his potential FA landing spots are disappearing one by one?

Honestly – I don’t see why the Kings wouldn’t be more interested in Marion and his cap space than they would in Josh Smith at 5/76 (or whatever).

still Swish Fan #1.

by ChrisCEIT on Jul 17, 2008 1:02 PM PDT up reply actions  

If Smith signs the 1 year qualifying offer, Atlanta risks everything...

Bibby, Smith and Johnson all free-agents during the same summer? Marion can be extended in an extend and trade if he is willing and Atlanta is looking for players with play-off experience. Losing Smith, a player who is not only immature but doesn’t like the coach and replacing him with Shawn Marion makes a lot of sense to me.

Kings and Smith? 22 year old old shot blocking, scoring, rebounder that can play either the 3 or the 4? Yes please! Smith is a long term fix that can grow with the Kings young nucleus, even at a slightly inflated price.

Hot dogs, get your hot dogs.

by jjham15 on Jul 17, 2008 1:35 PM PDT up reply actions  

Smith is restricted.

Atlanta isn’t losing anything on this deal unless they want to.

The proposed options for the Hawks seem to be (at worst) Josh Smith for one season or Shawn Marion for one season. They’ve already tendered the qualifying offer for Smith, so they’ve got him for one year. Basically the Hawks gain little to nothing in this trade other than playing nice with other teams. I’m not sure why that’s an advantage for them – but maybe they do it anyway.

still Swish Fan #1.

by ChrisCEIT on Jul 18, 2008 7:37 AM PDT up reply actions  

My post said losing Smith and replacing him with Marion.

And they can ask Marion/Heat to work an extend and trade- so if Marion would bite, the Hawks would have him for more than one season. If Smith signs the one year tender offer, he is gone at the end of the season and Atlanta will have nothing to show for it.

Hot dogs, get your hot dogs.

by jjham15 on Jul 18, 2008 11:34 AM PDT up reply actions  

I'm not interested in Josh Smith

And that’s my personal opinion. I think a guy who fights his entire career with Mike Woodson because (???) is not very wise. I also think he’s a pure tweener who works fine in Atlanta, but not so much in Sacramento where bigger more talented players exist. Because you’re talking about committing this team to a large chunk of change to a tweener SF and a non all-star (as of yet) in Kevin Martin as youre core players. No thanks.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on

by pookeyguru on Jul 17, 2008 11:21 AM PDT reply actions  

Didn't the GM also fight with Woodson a whole bunch?

Smith would add another above the rim player which works with the future Hawes/ Thompson front court.

Hot dogs, get your hot dogs.

by jjham15 on Jul 17, 2008 12:12 PM PDT up reply actions  

I do know

that a front court of Smith/Thompson/Hawes would make me a happy man.

by misterbrister on Jul 17, 2008 2:09 PM PDT up reply actions  

Josh Smith is the stick flavor of the month

But committing a huge chunk of money to him is a mistake. Can he play? Yes, of course he can. It’s why he’s in the NBA. But he isn’t a core franchise players, and one has to recognize that. (He’s not Kevin Martin whose had worse coaches and circumstances to deal with as a player than Smith has. Has Martin undercut a coach at any point the way Smith has with Woodson? No.)

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on

by pookeyguru on Jul 17, 2008 7:25 PM PDT up reply actions  

well....

the only thing I can think of was when KMart replied to the comment by Theus of how the team doesn’t have anyone other than Artest to throw the ball to.

Mikki Moore in the skills challenge! - LPA

by iashwash on Jul 17, 2008 7:50 PM PDT up reply actions  

I agree that was the most negative thing he's done

But in a sense it was justified. Theus stuck his foot in his mouth. (While I”m not totally familiary with the back & forth relationship of Woodson/Smith, I also don’t think what Martin did was that bad in context.) He said something in a way, and when questioned, kept backpedaling, and talking shit until he ended up looking stupid. Theus fanned the flames once, and Martin made a statement, as far as I could tell, to Sam Amick once, and after that didn’t say anything about it.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on

by pookeyguru on Jul 17, 2008 8:05 PM PDT up reply actions  

kmart is a good kid

as for Josh Smith, I haven’t sounded my opinion off, yet, partly because is I’m not sure. I love Josh Smith as a player – his age, his talents, his attitude doesn’t worry me so much as my question as to whether he’ll ever develop a polished three pointer. Maybe this is spurned on by the combination of FreeDarko and the fact that in NBA2K8 I demolish all comers with the Hawks by repeatedly taking Josh Smith and Cramming him down the hole, but I really like the idea of him on the Kings. The practicalities however, are less inclined.
Where would Smith fit on the Kings? Well, this becomes a question of his value. Say we get my conceptualization of what is fair value ($12 million for five) – that means that for the next five years we have Beno, Martin and Smith locked up. That means our rebuilding plan better be complete in two years (which may or may not involve Beno), so these guys have two plaoff bound seasons together before they make the final run for the rings in five years. We’d have Cisco at an extra five mill as the sixth man at that time (theoretically), and we’d have signed Hawes for another $8-12 (assuming 7 footers get increasingly rare), and would have just extended JT from anywhere from $10-$16 million. Well, that’s 6+11+12+15+12+5=61 million tied up in six guys – when we don’t have a real big man on the floor, nor a stellar PG? I mean, we can be optimistic and say Beno becomes great, JT becomes a bigger, more offensively talented Josh Smith, and Josh Smith becomes even more of what he is, as well as the greatest lockdown defender since Scottie Pippen. Being a Kigns fan, this team would kill, it’d be awesome. Championship!
The problem arises in the (very likely scenario) that a few of those players don’t pan out. Maybe Cisco leaves for 7 million a year in Chicago, maybe Beno becomes what Bibby is, except even slower and with a worse shot, JT and Shawes are really just backups. Then, in that scenario, having $12 million assigned to a tweener that doesn’t really fir you system will kill your ability to make moves, and you’ll be constantly trying to build around a failed formula – that is, a high efficiency scorer with limited defensive ability tied to a roaming small forward who never sticks to his man and relies solely on his athletecism to score.
So, Josh smith is a dream, but like all dreams, it has me putting more fantasy in the reality. I see the sick blocks, the ridiculous hangtime, and I think: Imagine KMart running around nilly-dilly, as this roaming beast that is Josh SMith eats the rim – teams wouldn’t know whether to protect the rim, guard the midrange or lock out the three. And shit, the power forward and center all have range till the three, and one of them is a low-post monster (Shawes), and the other gathers up all the loose rebounds like a priest on a collection plate. Then hell, Beno can be Beno and it’s all good, because anyone who thinks they can get past Beno will get swatted by Smith, as KMart and JT lock down the other teams primary scorers and Shawes is the big dude in the paint.
Sadly, all that’ll end up happening is we’ll curse JSmittys name every time he launches a three when Shawes is on the block, or drives and tries to dunk over three people when Kevin is open at the top of the key, and his insistence on being a three that plays the four forces JT to become a really slow three rather than Karl Malone part deux, and in all this mess Beno decides to get his so he can get the hell out of Sactown.

Signing Smith is a big risk, because it delays management finding out about the players they have, ties up the books for a loooong time and limits managements ability to rework the roster, as well as possibly causing locker room problems. However, like all risks, I can’t but help but look at the rewards, but we must all take a deep breath, swallow, and take a hard look at those odds.

That’s what she said.

Mikki Moore in the skills challenge! - LPA

by iashwash on Jul 17, 2008 9:55 PM PDT up reply actions   2 recs

Well put IW Well put

I agree with all the aforementioned above for alot of reasons. Getting Smith is the sexy move, and one that grabs headlines. It’s not necessarily the greatest move out there for a team slowly building toward something needs at this moment time. To quote the 2 stupid Guiness guys who show up on PTI too often: “Brilliant!”

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on

by pookeyguru on Jul 17, 2008 10:11 PM PDT up reply actions  

Good point
Getting Smith is the sexy move, and one that grabs headlines.

The sexy/headline moves are not typically the Geoff Petrie moves.

by smgmatt on Jul 20, 2008 8:16 PM PDT up reply actions  

One gripe
...maybe Beno becomes what Bibby is, except even slower and with a worse shot…

It was Bibby’s contract that put him on the trade block. At $6M, the Kings probably wouldn’t have traded Bibby, so if Beno’s that’s his worst-case, I think that was a great signing. Even 3/4 of Bibby for 1/2 the price is a decent pickup.

Great post otherwise, every time I thought I had a counter-argument, you addressed it further down in the post. Rec’d.

by smgmatt on Jul 20, 2008 8:13 PM PDT up reply actions  

I would be worried about

fighting with coaches like Rick Carlisle, Rudy T, either of the Van Gundys….

Fighting/conflicting with a young, unheralded guy like Woodson, who has never won more than 45% of his games… that I can understand.

by misterbrister on Jul 17, 2008 2:15 PM PDT up reply actions  

If he had any semblance of a three point shot

I’d take him for 12, not for 15. Him on your team however means you’d be left looking for a lock-down defender somewhere (JT?), because he likes to roam – and if that happens, Shawes can get exposed really badly. That being said, he could help clean up Benos mess pretty well.

Mikki Moore in the skills challenge! - LPA

by iashwash on Jul 17, 2008 5:43 PM PDT up reply actions  

If you think he'll bloom

This is when you grab a player if you don’t have high picks.

eternal skeptical optimist

by lietothegirls on Jul 17, 2008 10:10 PM PDT up reply actions  

Hell yes

Josh Smith is one of those guys we can sign long term, unlike aging Odom or Marion. With a stat sheet like Smith at 22 years old, Smith is only bound to get better.

by CloudyEyes on Jul 17, 2008 6:09 PM PDT reply actions  

I agree as above

I do worry about ianwash’s point. 3s have to be able to hit the 3s these days.

eternal skeptical optimist

by lietothegirls on Jul 17, 2008 10:11 PM PDT up reply actions  

How about a three team trade?

KIngs Get:
Josh Smith

Atlanta Gets:
Lamar Odom

Lakers Get:
Ron Artest
K-9

by FutureGM4Kings on Jul 18, 2008 1:18 PM PDT reply actions  

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