Petrie's Handling of Artest Trade

by coolcatreportdotcom on Jul 19, 2008 1:06 PM PDT

A lot of people here want Ron Artest traded. For some of them, yesterday would be too soon. For some of them, what we get back in return is of little consequence.

While I would like to see Artest on the opening-day roster and see what this team as presently constructed can do, I am not naive enough to think there's no way Artest will be dealt before then.

In my opinion, a lot of energy has been expended here with Artest for garbage, play the kids, let's go into full-on rebuild mode thinking. While anything is possible, I think it's pretty clear that is not Geoff Petrie's general method of operation.

As a counterpoint, the Bibby trade was essentially that - a proven player for Shelden Williams, a draft pick and three guys who are no longer in the picture. It's worth noting, however, that the Kings had Beno Udrih in the picture and there was a general feeling that he was as good as Bibby overall, certainly more of pure point guard and definitely younger and cheaper.

The Webber trade was also that - a declining vet for three role players. I won't say much more, except to note it is at least possible Petrie will eventually take less than I think in an Artest trade.

Some have argued Salmons and Garcia are as good as Artest, or that there wouldn't be much of a dropoff, or that if we get someone who is better at the 4 then the tradeoff between a better 4 and a "slightly" worse 3 (aka Artest for Odom) would balance things out. Naturally, such musings tend to forget about the drafting of Jason Thompson and the still unknown development of Shelden Williams.

I think the most reasonable assessments leading to the likeliness of Artest being dealt comes from those who feel Petrie will deal Artest if he can get a star back. In other words, Petrie is open to star-for-star trades.

I think most, even those who want Artest dealt, concede he is one of the top two players on the team. So what we have going on are some chess matches.

Opposing teams are lowballing the Kings and often offering garbage, while Petrie is scouring their roster and saying, "Give me one of your top 2-3 players. Plus, give me a draft pick or a promising player. And, oh yeah, did I mention that you taking Kenny Thomas off my hands HAS to be part of the equation?"

It's all likely to add up to nothing soon, unless the other teams blink or REALLY want Artest.

Rather than look to trade Artest for a 4, I think the better idea is to trade him for another star 3. I also think getting a strong combo guard who can back up both Udrih and Martin as a sixth man - someone like Jason Terry or Barbosa, just to throw out a couple of names - would help the Kings. That may not happen in an Artest trade, but I think Petrie is spying that opportunity.

I think Garcia-Salmons, while both fairly versatile players who can help the Kings in several ways, are both better suited to backing up the 3 hole. One of them might need to be dealt. So maybe you have a potential deal somewhere down the road where Petrie packages some spare parts like Salmons, Williams, Douby, Moore (maybe even Miller) and comes up with a solid combo guard.

I am also not sold on our future at the center position. Miller is a solid mid-level center, and a nice high-post player passer with great passing skills, but he's probably on his way out. Hawes also is more of an outside shooting type who is not really well-suited for mixing it up with the big boys down low or defending monsters, although it's certainly too early to write him off.

Thompson might end up being the center-power forward type, and maybe we end up signing or trading for a decent 4 at some point to team up with him. I think it's too much to expect Williams to develop into much more than a decent backup.

(This is a FanPost from a member of the Sactown Royalty community. The views expressed come from the member, and not Sactown Royalty staff.)

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Good post CC

I like your thinking. I think we are most stacked at the 2,3,4 spots at the moment (although we don’t really know what we have at the 4 until we see more of JT and find out if Shareef has anything left in those legs.) We are least stacked at the 1. We are solid at the moment at the 5. But again, we don’t really knoww what we have for the future, because Shawes hasn’t proven anything yet, and Miller is getting older. With that in mind, I’d be open to filling any hole except the 2, in an Artest trade.

Two things to consider though.

Yes, Artest is one of our two best players. But due to his background, I don’t see us trading him for one of the two best players on another team. But we should either hold out for a starter, significant cash relief, or a top ten draft pick. I do think that we need to have Artest gone to move forward, so that may put me in the “we are better without him” camp. But I think we need to get more than junk or straight cap relief back.

Second, after everything that has been said publicly and privately, I can’t see Artest coming into camp with his head on straight. There are players that could pull it off, understanding what they have at stake. But Ron is not that kind of player. This is not to say Ron couldn’t come around if GP cam back and offered him a long term deal. But does anyone really believe that is going to happen?

Based on this, I think we are going to get painted into a corner if we try to wait this out too long. Right now, there appear to be some options, so GP has leverage. If the season starts and Ron isn’t into the game, our leverage goes out the window.

My gut feeling is that whatever deal we do, Artest lovers are going to feel like we got robbed, and those that want him gone are going to say, “Well at least Artest is gone.” I’d love some of the deals that have een talked about, but I guess I am just a pessamist. I don’t expect to see Odom or Marion or any player of that cliber coming to Sac in an Artest deal.

"Being loquacious and being right aren't necessarily always the same."
GP, the man, the myth, the legend, puts the smackdown on Reggie

by SavageBeast on Jul 19, 2008 1:34 PM PDT 0 recs

Good points

I would just add that, while I don’t know if Petrie will be able to pull off a trade that brings a top player back, it does appear that’s the stance he is taking, at least for now. Where that leads to, only time will tell.

I’m also don’t agree that Ron will give a sub-par effort if he is on the opening-day roster, although that is what seemed to happen in Indy. Even there, Indy was able to make a star-for-star deal in the end.

by coolcatreportdotcom on Jul 19, 2008 1:47 PM PDT up 0 recs

Ironically

the star for star deal you mention was for an expiring contract. Similar to the Marion or Odom deals.

Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott

by Kfan in Korea on Jul 19, 2008 2:44 PM PDT up 0 recs

Agreed

In fact, Peja is probably a pretty good example of what we can expect Gp to push for. Some star quatlities, but an expiring contract and something that lowered his value. (in this case injuries and a desire to leave the team.) Sounds a lot like Odom, Marion, and Howard.

TickTickTickTickTickTick

by LeaguePassAddict on Jul 19, 2008 3:11 PM PDT up 0 recs

Disclaimer

The above views are not necessarily those of the owner of LeaguePassAddict.

SB posted from my computer.

On further review, though, I tend to agree, but without the typos.

TickTickTickTickTickTick

by LeaguePassAddict on Jul 19, 2008 3:15 PM PDT up 0 recs

Good Post CC

I already disagree with you about Artest, and most around here know that. I agree up to a point about Garcia, and about Salmons in some instances, however I don’t feel either is worth giving up unless there is talent in return coming for each. In otherwords, you can’t have 6 all-stars on your team particularly in the luxury tax era without paying for it. Having role players who can step up their games at various times is a nice luxury particularly if you aren’t paying out the nose for it. Both Garcia and Salmons I believe fit THAT type of player.

As far as Hawes It’s too early to say where he fits in the low/high post era. Summer League doesn’t show anything on that front in my humble opinion. I do think JT can be a top tier forward, but that’s probably a few years off before he reaches that. That’s okay too. These kids have time. Shelden Williams could end up being a backup, but being a quality backup big means he could have a 10-15 year career in the NBA. There are guys with more talent than him who can’t say such if that ends up being true.

In the end what I prefer is salary cap relief in a K9/Artest swap for Wally’s World and a 1st round draft choice from the Cavs. If the Cavs offer that that trumps the need to bring in a quality star back as moving Thomas is proving difficult, and Cleveland may prefer making a move to get Artest, and it gives them another trade chip in Thomas to move at the deadline if they so choose. He’s going to be atot easier to move come February, and next Summer, than he is this summer. Either way it comes down to your preference. I would rather the Kings keep the team intact, minus essentially Artest and Miller and perhaps Moore, and go young and try to rebuild that way. Martin is 25, Garcia is 26, Salmons is 28, Udrih is 26, Williams is 24 and Hawes will be 20. Thompson turns 22 before the season starts. In terms of actual age this isn’t that young of a team when you factor in Moore, Thomas, Abdur-Rahim or Miller. So, in essence, keeping this team young does in fact move it forward more than trading for a star and keeping this team in 40-45 win range.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on

by pookeyguru on Jul 20, 2008 12:11 PM PDT 0 recs

All Stars and the 45-Win Glass Ceiling

Right now we have NO all-stars and possibly 2-3 players with All-Star talent. So if we add an All-Star it will be our first.

I’m not sure why, but I hear a lot of folks talking about the 40-45 win glass ceiling. That may be fine for this year, but I can’t really understand why incrementally improving the team each year with guys like Martin, Garcia, Thompson, etc. and adding some other pieces via signings such as Beno and mixing in a few stars at some point can’t get us to where we want to be. That approach, building and adding to a growing foundation apparently isn’t the answer, but gutting the franchise and moving down to 25-win land is?

I am seeing some teams who were ahead of us in the standings have their core gutted in free agency, and we had a team with one star, a couple of solid starters and a bunch of role players represent the West in the finals, but the Kings can’t make the same kind of leap with a couple of smart deals and a semblance of continuity? Hmmmm.

by coolcatreportdotcom on Jul 20, 2008 6:20 PM PDT up 0 recs

What does gutting this team even mean anymore?

I think we all agree that Miller either gets traded, leaves at the end of his contract, or signs for much less. Bibby is gone. K-9 is leaving one way or the other. Artest is leaving one way or the other. Shareef probably takes medical retirement. Mikki’s contract is expiring. All that leaves is the young guys and cap space. Of all these players, the only one that might actually stick around another couple of years is Miller. The team has a solid base of young players, and is set up to play decent ball now and be a serious contender in a year or two. What that means to me is that we focus on players who will either expire or be with us for more than one or two years. I don’t know that I would call that gutting the team.

"Being loquacious and being right aren't necessarily always the same."
GP, the man, the myth, the legend, puts the smackdown on Reggie

by SavageBeast on Jul 21, 2008 10:49 AM PDT up 0 recs

brad's future...

i think there is a reasonable chance Brad ends up staying a King after his contract expires. Money doesn’t seem to motivate him, he may feel he “owes” it to the Maloofs and GP to stay after having supported him during is “time of need.” Brad at a reasonable price backing up Shawes makes some sense to me…remember the final years of the big russian guy for the Blazers (name escapes me)...

by longtimelistenerfirsttimecaller on Jul 21, 2008 12:24 PM PDT up 0 recs

I'd be okay with that

As long as Brad is willing to come off the Bench. I don’t want it to be a situation where we hurt the young guys’ advancement because of an ego thing. That being said, I’m not sure Brad is going to come back. I get the feeling that he is ready to retire when this contract is over. Just reading what he had to say about the struggles of travel and the schedule. But I could be wrong.

"Being loquacious and being right aren't necessarily always the same."
GP, the man, the myth, the legend, puts the smackdown on Reggie

by SavageBeast on Jul 21, 2008 1:00 PM PDT up 0 recs

Arvydas Sabonis?? (spell?)

by eduardo_m7 on Jul 21, 2008 4:09 PM PDT up 0 recs

That's the correct spelling

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on

by pookeyguru on Jul 21, 2008 5:37 PM PDT up 0 recs

Right on

Memory not so bad after all

by eduardo_m7 on Jul 21, 2008 6:54 PM PDT up 0 recs

Tanker

Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott

by Kfan in Korea on Jul 21, 2008 2:44 PM PDT up 0 recs

Hater!

Mikki Moore in the skills challenge! - LPA

by iashwash on Jul 21, 2008 9:48 PM PDT up 0 recs

I'm not in favor of gutting the team

I’m in favor of stripping the veterans and letting Udrih Martin Garcia Salmons Hawes and Thompson put their stamp on this team to see where it goes. What’s so wrong with that? What has Artest ever won over the course of his career? Has Artest proven to be a player so valuable he can’t be traded? I don’t really understand what keeping him means either. Martin may not be a surefire All-Star in your eyes, but he’s a damn near All-Star in many eyes who watch the league, and that’s not just my opinion. If Kevin Martin became available many would laugh.

I am seeing some teams who were ahead of us in the standings have their core gutted in free agency, and we had a team with one star, a couple of solid starters and a bunch of role players represent the West in the finals, but the Kings can’t make the same kind of leap with a couple of smart deals and a semblance of continuity? Hmmmm.

Who was the star? Who was the role player? Who were the solid starters? Who were the role players? No the Kings can’t make the same leap as that team. First off nobody on the Kings is as good as Vlade Divac. Sold starter my ass. He was a hell of alot better than that. Peja Stojakovic was not a role player. He was an all-star who many fans blamed him for struggles that were above and beyond his doing. You can call him a role player, but that is drastically understating how valuable he was to the Kings over a 5 year stretch. I’m sad you even bothered to call him one. Doug Christie was a very valuable player who helped diminish Mike Bibby’s weakness’ (several of which were considerable) on the court. That might be a solid starter to you, but I consider that something a whole lot better. I’m just not exactly sure it needs a name, and I’m not sure I need to come up with one.

I used to think you’re a pot stirrer of crap to watch the ensuing chaos. Kinda like the Joker to make a play on the current flick out. But, now, I think mostly you’re a dis-illusioned fool with little to no sense about how a team wins basketball games. It’s a shame, but things are what they are.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on

by pookeyguru on Jul 21, 2008 3:34 PM PDT up 0 recs

Filling in the Blanks

There’s nothing wrong with letting the six guys you mention “put their stamp on the team,” but without any additional help, it’s pretty clear to everyone except seeing eye dogs what the result will be, short term. Great, you want to tank, fall to 25 wins and get a top pick. Have fun with that thought, then wake up and realize that unless Petrie leaves the helm, it ain’t gonna happen that way.

Martin is one of the “2-3 players with All-Star talent.” So is Artest. Again, both are on the borderline of All-Star appearances and might actually have made the team if they played for someone other than the Kings and hadn;t been injured. Just remember that was in response to your comment that “you can’t have 6 all-stars on your team. particularly in the luxury tax era, without paying for it” after I proposed getting a decent player back for Artest and packaging perhaps Salmons and some other “depth” and adding someone like Jason Terry or Barbosa to the mix.

As for the Lakers, everyone knows who the star is, and just about everyone knows who the solid starters are (Gasol and Odom) and that leaves pretty much the rest of the team as the role players. Oh, wait, you didn’t even understand I was talking about the Lakers and not the Kings of near-championship form. Oh. I guess that means you can basically just delete that last paragraph of a rant, because it addresses something I didn’t even talk about.

by coolcatreportdotcom on Jul 21, 2008 6:37 PM PDT up 0 recs

Who said anything about additional help?

The first step towards building a contender is having star talent. The Kings don’t know if Thompson or Hawes is that type of talent, but I do know that Artest will never lead the Kings there. That’s what I do know.

Yes Artest has all-star talent, and has made the All-Star game once. Not a strong track record there snarky. Martin may never get there, but he doesn’t dehabilitate the Kings with antics off the court and potential suspensions looming from the moon. (Actually I don’t think he’ll be suspended much anymore. Injuries for him are the greater concern.)

Oh, wait, you didn’t even understand I was talking about the Lakers and not the Kings of near-championship form. Oh. I guess that means you can basically just delete that last paragraph of a rant, because it addresses something I didn’t even talk about.

My apologies then. Misunderstands help noone. (And I did think you were talking about the Kings. As I said my apologies.) Let me address something then that I do find interesting nonetheless.

All Stars and the 45-Win Glass Ceiling Right now we have NO all-stars and possibly 2-3 players with All-Star talent. So if we add an All-Star it will be our first.

If that’s true why keep Artest then? He hasn’t made the All-Star game as a King, deservedly or no, and what’s the chances of him doing so? Besides now that he feels “slighted”, or whatever you would choose to fill in the blanks with his recent email firings to the masses, where and how is Artest going to be happy? I just don’t understand why keeping Artest does anything, and I don’t understand why losing him hurts the team in the long run or really the short run for that matter. I don’t see how adding Jason Terry, with a very bad contract to boot, or Leandro Barbosa helps the team in the long run.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on

by pookeyguru on Jul 22, 2008 5:19 AM PDT up 0 recs

Artest and Garnett

Before last season, you could have pretty much said the same thing about Garnett that you are saying about Artest. What’s he ever done? Outside of racking up a lot of stats, he has not been part of a champion.

On that basis, there are a lot of guys in this league you could write off and say “they will never lead the Kings there.”

by coolcatreportdotcom on Jul 22, 2008 6:34 AM PDT up 0 recs

Garnett is a far better player than Artest

Let’s not go there. Garnett also played on an inept franchise with poor talent. Artest has not had the same excuse.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on

by pookeyguru on Jul 22, 2008 6:38 AM PDT up 0 recs

Far Better?

That’s a stretch.

Minnesota surrounded him with pretty decent talent for a while there, but he just couldn’t get over the hump. How many straight playoff appearances did he exit in the first round?

Meanwhile, Artest started with a rebuilding Bulls team, enjoyed success with the Pacers and was a key part in that success, and carried the Kings into the playoffs in his first half season here (with some help). Then came Musselman. Theus picked up the pieces somewhat last year, and now we are here.

by coolcatreportdotcom on Jul 22, 2008 6:45 AM PDT up 0 recs

Far Far Far Far better

More talented, better teammate, more skills, and a more effective player. He exited in the 1st round 7 or 8 times. That’s more playoff appearances than Artest has ever made on a rebuilding Bulls team that he was a part of, a good Pacers team that he was a part of, and this Kings team he so definitely led to a 1st round exit 2 years ago. Yippee fucking skippee. This artest guy is beautiful. I mean after all he did play on 20 win teams consecutively in Chicago with Elton Brand. (Not entirely Artest’s fault I do admit. There were other factors at work there.)

If you want to believe Artest’s talent level is similar to Kevin Garnett’s go ahead. I just aint going there with ya. Peace out dodo brain.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on

by pookeyguru on Jul 22, 2008 6:51 AM PDT up 1 recs

I agree

Garnett is better; just not far, far better.

by coolcatreportdotcom on Jul 22, 2008 8:22 PM PDT up 0 recs

Kevin Garnett >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Will.

‘Nuff said.

Mikki Moore in the skills challenge! - LPA

by iashwash on Jul 22, 2008 12:01 PM PDT up 0 recs

My assumption

If you have a team that wins X games and you improve the team more than other folks improve their teams, you have the possibility to win X + ? games.

Obviously, it’s more complicated than that, and I think ongoing continuity often plays a role. Sometimes keeping a team together while improving at the same time helps the team develop some chemistry.

While you may question any decision to keep Artest and pine for guys like Wally so you can cut them and tank, I think it’s doubtful Petrie is going to overtly throw up the white flag. He’s either going to get value for Artest or you are going to see the guy on the roster to start the season.

by coolcatreportdotcom on Jul 22, 2008 6:40 AM PDT up 0 recs

I'm not interested in tanking CC

I’m tired of your bullshit inflammatory crap mislabeling my intentions. I take my apology back. You’re a piece of shit. That being said I do have a response since you made a basketball point.

I don’t care how many teams this games wins on a basis of 25-45 because any team in that range isn’t winning a championship anyway. I want rings. Not just playoff appearances. I realize getting to the championship means you have to make the playoffs first, but it’s a stretch to say the Kings are a playoff contender because of other calamities in the West (Denver Golden State and perhaps Phoenix or Dallas). I don’t care about what other teams are doing. I care about what the KINGS are doing. This isn’t about whether I’m right or you’re wrong. This is about whether Artest can function as a team leader leading to a team to a better place. Artest indirectly caused Reggie Theus’ fiasco because Reggie knows he has to appease Ron to keep him interested and in the fold. That is just too much to commit to one guy. Especially to one guy who comes up with various injuries at crucial times, and a guy who has so much personal disorder in his life previously. It’s alot to take on for any head coach let alone Reggie Theus.

That being said I don’t think trading for Wally/1st round draft choice is admitting defeat. It’s moving forward with young talent that you expect on your roster past 2009. You may disagree with that, it’s your right, but you’re still wrong any way you slice it. Just admit you’re a Ron Artest lover.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on

by pookeyguru on Jul 22, 2008 6:48 AM PDT up 0 recs

KG vs. Ron Ron

KG is a future hall of famer, and that could be said before he won his championship. Ron has a long way to go. KG carried Minnesota to whatever level of success they attained and was an instrumental element in the Celtics success this year. Ron helped an 18-26 team secure the 6th seed in the playoffs, and by his actions probably cost the Pacers their best chance at a championship.

To clarify, Ron’s talent may be close (but not equal) to Garnett’s, but there is a pretty big chasm once that talent is translated into consistent results. That’s just my opinion.

SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Jul 22, 2008 7:25 AM PDT up 0 recs

His talent may be close

But find a GM who would rather have Ron’s basketball talent or KG’s basketball talent. Every GM would point out then it’s not that simple because Artest’s personal life has interfered with his play on the court, and by that point it’s not even close.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on

by pookeyguru on Jul 22, 2008 7:40 AM PDT up 0 recs

Hmm

Your post made me think of a couple of very interesting points:

The centerpiece of the KG trade was Jefferson (widely considered a low return, even draft picks attached) . . . who here wouldn’t take a player like that for Artest in a second?
06-07 T-Wolves record: 32-50, 07-08 T-Wolves record: 22-60 (-10 wins)
06-07 Celtics recod: 24-56, 07-08 Celtics record: 66-16 (+42 wins)
It’s fairly safe to say that the difference between KG & Jefferson is 10 wins (and Jefferson has put up similar numbers to Dwight Howard)

Question: What’s the difference between Artest & Salmons/Garcia? Is it more than 10 wins, or less?

If it’s less, then there is absolutely no way that he can even be realistically compared to KG. Even if it’s more, then it’s still a bit of a stretch unless you think that Salmons/Garcia = Jefferson.

This brings me to my final point. If there are people who feel that Artest really is comparable to KG, then I totally understand the outrage at the thought of trading him. I don’t agree that this comparison is true, but it does explain a lot.

by smgmatt on Jul 22, 2008 9:39 AM PDT up 1 recs

I hate to be inflammatory

But being a stupid crackhead explains it too.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on

by pookeyguru on Jul 22, 2008 10:08 AM PDT up 0 recs

Just to be clear

There are many people here who back Artest’s ability to a fault.

This was just one explanation of why that possibly is, because sometimes these people seem to be looking at a different player than I am.

For example, Giants fans forgave Barry Bonds for his attitude/transgressions, just as Lakers fans forgive Kobe for his. Artest is not the same level of elite player as them, so he doesn’t get the same treatment . . . except for those that do see him as that elite talent.

Like I said before, it explains a lot (to me at least).

by smgmatt on Jul 22, 2008 11:34 AM PDT up 0 recs

I'm aware of that smg

I wasn’t crticizing your explanation. I was just making a point about dis-illusionment.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on

by pookeyguru on Jul 22, 2008 12:04 PM PDT up 0 recs

For what it's worth

That explanation wasn’t really for you, just everyone in general.

by smgmatt on Jul 22, 2008 12:07 PM PDT up 0 recs

Fair enough

The statement didn’t bother me anyway. I’m just tired of mis-labels and circular arguments always coming back to Artest. It’s getting very old.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on

by pookeyguru on Jul 22, 2008 12:10 PM PDT up 0 recs

Yep

You really should get off that stuff.

by coolcatreportdotcom on Jul 22, 2008 8:28 PM PDT up 0 recs

The basic fallacy of your premise

Sometimes keeping a team together while improving at the same time helps the team develop some chemistry.

Keeping Artest (who is decidedly unhappy in Sacramento now) will not help the team develop any team chemistry, and will probably be a detriment to locker room harmony, therefore the team will not improve while keeping Artest.

You’ve flogged others for beating a dead horse, but you’re taking it to a whole new level here.

TickTickTickTickTickTick

by LeaguePassAddict on Jul 22, 2008 10:41 AM PDT up 0 recs

I honestly think that without the trade Artest crowd to respond to

He wouldn’t have anything constructive one way or another about this Kings squad. All he seems to respond to is things that revolve around Ron Artest. Does anybody else feel like that this is his agent in disguise?

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on

by pookeyguru on Jul 22, 2008 10:51 AM PDT up 0 recs

Actually if you read the post that started this thread

You’ll see I covered a broad array of topics. You guys are the ones beating a dead horse, as if there were not other topics to discuss.

by coolcatreportdotcom on Jul 22, 2008 8:35 PM PDT up 0 recs

Really?

And how many of them have you commented on in the past month? Seriously, other than snarky comments about Miller’s suspension?

TickTickTickTickTickTick

by LeaguePassAddict on Jul 23, 2008 9:36 AM PDT up 0 recs

I don't know

But quite a few. Feel free to visit the archives and I am sure you could folks who are way more obsessed with Artest than I’ll ever be.

That said, I’ve missed quite a few days and threads, so I’d probably have trouble earning a spot in the top 50 posters here based on volume or any other criteria.

by coolcatreportdotcom on Jul 23, 2008 11:40 PM PDT up 0 recs

Wow, you two don't like each other...

eternal skeptical optimist

by lietothegirls on Jul 22, 2008 2:07 PM PDT up 0 recs

Mostly I ignore him and had been doing that mostly for several months

Now I’m going back to it again. This crap with him (I’m assuming) is never going to end. I’m tired of it.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on

by pookeyguru on Jul 22, 2008 2:12 PM PDT up 0 recs