Summer Heat
One of the beautiful things about Summer, if you can say that in Sacramento this time of year, I maintain you can't, but one thing is the longer days. The Weather to spend outside (snicker now for those living in 100 degree heat and non breathable air), or the time to take vacations in cooler climates where the temperatures are a bit more tolerable. Right? Well, in the NBA it's money time. And money time has proven to be a bit tricky this go around.
Josh Smith and Luol Deng are in tricky spots that will see them almost certainly take the qualifying offer's. Andre Igoudala may end up taking the 50 million from Philly now the grass seems better with that 50 mill promise hanging around. None of those guys ever believed they would get that little. They all believe they're superstars. In their own mind anyway. The truth is that negotiation's are tricky with any Free-Agent let alone a 22-24 year old one who has been in the league for 4 seasons. I said at the time, and it's my opinion, that the Kings overpayed Kevin Martin. After seeing what Monta Ellis got, and with perhaps his total upside having been tapped with a potentially crippling position change looming for Ellis, it could make Martin's money to be of the large savings variety. Like, say, on a Steve Nash level. (That's assuming alot. I won't cross that threshold till it comes. Still, it's a barometer I would like to use in this argument for the future.) That's something only time can tell. Again, and I say again, those who have criticized Petrie's giving out of deals perhaps forget that Martin got what every other young talent out there got. (Or was rumored to have been offered. The lone exceptions are the studs like Wade, James, Stoudemire and Howard. I don't think anybody here thinks K-Mart is on that level.) And he's happy about it. He wants to be a leader. He wants to be the "man". Those are all things that interest him, but he hasn't gone about in a derisive way. I say be thankful. These developments loom large as the Atlanta dipshits, I mean Hawks, continue to reel from Childress departure to Olympikos, and the poor negotiating posture with Josh Smith.
With Artest having been bandied about so much, and with pretty much every position under the sun having been taken around here (with maybe the notable exception of throwing Artest to the Wolves; and I don't mean a lifetime punishement of being banned to play in a Wolves uni), I'm going to attempt to clarify why I think the Cavs are in a strong position to make a run for Artest if they choose.
First, and I say foremost, they have the expiring contracts to get a deal done with the Kings principals (Artest and Thomas) in Snow and Szczerbiak. But let's adding something else to the deal so that the Kings and Cavs have a reason to do a deal. So, let me propose this. The Kings send Artest, Thomas and Mikki Moore to Cleveland for Wally Szczerbiak, Eric Snow and a future 1st round draft choice. The Kings move Thomas and Mikki Moore for an expiring contract and a 1st round choice, and the Cavs don't take on a greater luxury tax burden for this season and beyond by only doing a Wally/Artest k9 swap. They get a chance to try out Artest and Moore, and perhaps dangle Thomas to a team looking to clear cap space for 2010. (I doubt it, but I keep seeing all kinds of wierd theories popping up on what the Kings could do with this and that. This is mine.) I would do this deal in a heartbeat even at the risk of sounding folksy & downhome. I'll risk it. But that's me.
I think there are unknown factors for this too. I think the deal with Artest could prove to be fruitful for all his abilities to combine with LeBron's. Neither guy is a single postition player which makes pairing them not so difficult as say, Shaquille O'Neal and Chris Kaman. That would make for a more difficult pairing says I. But I think the bigger factor here is Gilbert's willingness to help improve the Cavs. And maybe more accurately, to do anything he can to keep LeBron in the fold in Cleveland. I'm fairly sure Gilbert would hire hookers to give LeBron handjob's on the bench when he's resting or something, assuming LeBron asked for it.
I think the 2 biggest reasons Cleveland would enter the sweepstakes is because they A) have asset's like Snow and Szcerbiak to offer, and B) Mike Brown has had past history with Artest. He knows what he's getting. He knows the problems with Artest in the locker room in Indiana. He knows because he was there. Firsthand experience far outweights any secondhand history around the L. That makes a huge difference. (That's the only reason Dallas became a destination for Artest in the eyes of many was solely of Carlisle saying he still liked Artest. Why can't Mike Brown enter this arena too?) Before Brown was hired by the Cavs, he was Rick Carlisle's Assistant Head Coach in Indiana, for those who aren't aware. That helps the Cavs figure out if he's worth it. (It's also worth noting Brown was there during Artest's best season in 2003-04 when he won defensive player of the year.) Via Wiki:
In 2000, Brown was hired by Gregg Popovich as an assistant coach with the San Antonio Spurs. While with the Spurs, Brown’s teams won at least 58 games each season. He also was the head coach for the Spurs’ summer league teams in Boston and Salt Lake City. After winning a championship with San Antonio in 2003, Brown was hired as associated head coach to Rick Carlisle with the Indiana Pacers. He helped lead Indiana to consecutive playoff appearances including a trip to the Eastern Conference Finals in 2004.The pedigree is there with Brown, but one can reasonably argue he needs the horses. He now has more of them I believe. The only real problem with the trade scenario for the Cavs is they have too many bigs on the roster with Zydrunas Iglauskas, Ben Wallace, Joe Smith and Anderson Varejao already. Adding Moore and (albeit likely worthless) Thomas to that list could make the Cavs be hesitant given JJ Hickson's presence. This could leave Daniel Gibson, Sasha Pavlovic, Delonte West and Damon Jones as the only guys who would play in the Cleveland backcourt. Again, and I say again, but this could play into Cleveland's thinking and try to get something else along with Artest in the mix there. (I think that would be a stupid play, but sometimes GM's like Ferry get greedy.)
Do I think this deal works for both sides? Well, yes I do actually. I think it works better than anything out there for the Kings, and it gives the Cavs incentive, as well as the Kings, a chance to shed salary and gain a good player. That I think is why the Kings should look at the Cavs as the best option. It might not be preferable to trade Moore this season, but then again, is it beneficial in keeping him? I don't think so, and especially if it entices the Cavs to complete a deal such as this.
I would much rather be in the Kings position trading Artest, than the Bulls/Hawks are with Deng and Smith. I would much rather trade asset's a little too early then trade them in a sign & trade. And here's why (capologist note: big up's to Ford for recognizing that S&T's do make a player become BYC):
Only one team -- the Grizzlies -- has any real cap room. But it appears that the team isn't going to use it to pry away a restricted free agent. So … restricted free agents have three options: 1. They can take the one-year qualifying offer and become unrestricted free agents next summer. 2. They can sign for a "market value" deal that is probably far less money than they think they're worth. 3. They can push for a sign-and-trade to another team. All three options are pretty unappealing at this point. Option 1 puts a lot of pressure and risk on the free agent. Option 2 would mean that players like Andre Iguodala, Luol Deng and Emeka Okafor sign for less money than the extensions they turned down last summer. Option 3 is tricky because of league trade rules that make most restricted free agents base-year compensation players (meaning their salaries are very difficult to trade).(Sorry for the long quote. It was necessary to make the point.) Via Larry Coon on Sign & Trades:
One complication with sign-and-trade deals is that the signed player can immediately become a BYC player (see question number 73 for more information on BYC), so the player's BYC value must be used when determining whether the trade is allowed.For those who don't understand what BYC is here you go:
So you see, and for those who don't quite get it, it's going to take a team with alot of cap room to do a sign & trade for Ron Artest. And I ask this now, is it worth getting a large trade exception like Seattle got? After all what they got was a ton of draft picks, and since when does having a ton of draft picks mean anything? Kevin Pritchard has made lots of deals, but then again, he's also made alot of trades involving filling various holes on the team. Frankly, and I say this for a reason, those trades haven't been cheap for the Blazers. They've just been heralded from an intellectual basis. Only time, like pretty much everything, is pretty much the basis of what will work. I think the Kings can pull off a sign & trade of a player like Artest, or Garcia if it comes to that, and let's hope it doesn't, or something along that realm. But doing so, and knowing now that a player immediately becomes BYC, it's essentially a team with cap room giving a player more money. The Sonics had a ton of draft picks result of that trade exception (getting Kurt Thomas and 2 1st round picks for taking on his salary from the Suns and then trading Thomas to the Spurs for another 1st round pick) they received from doing the Rashard Lewis S&T, but then again, you have to find a team like Orlando stupid enough to bid against itself for Artest. Good luck with that.Base year compensation (BYC) prevents another salary cap loophole. Without BYC, a team over the salary cap that wants to trade a player, but can't because of the Traded Player exception (which says teams can't take back more than 125% of the salary they trade away), could just sign the player to a new contract that fits within the desired range, then do the trade.
BYC says "if you re-sign a player and give him a big raise, then for a period of time his trade value will be lower than his actual salary." BYC defines the salary that's used to compare players for compliance under the Traded Player exception (see question number 68 for more information about the Traded Player exception). Usually the salary used for comparison is the player's actual salary. But under either of the following circumstances, a different salary is used when comparing salaries for trading purposes: The team is over the salary cap, used the Larry Bird or Early Bird exception to re-sign the player, and the player received a raise greater than 20% (unless it's the minimum salary). The team is over the salary cap, it extended the player's rookie scale contract, and the player received a raise greater than 20%.
So I submit this. You trade Artest for cap room, and a draft pick from Cleveland. You move Moore and Thomas along with him creating pure cap room for all 3 guys in the form of 21 million dollars. With Miller, Martin, Udrih, Salmons, Hawes, Thompson, Brown, Singletary, Ewing Jr, Douby and with Garcia's/William's cap number changing what you could be looking a team with 50 million dollars like JJHam has been saying for awhile now. This is of course noting that Abdur-Rahim won't be on the roster next season one way or another. That could be worth doing if only because a team with cap room can make things happen (like an uneven money trade), Personally I think you do this deal, and you create a possibility by carving up more cap room by waiving Shelden Williams and Quincy Douby and going after that Carlos Boozer. (I don't think it's possible, but what the hell since everyone else is doing it, and calling me crazy for saying it isn't likely, it's summer--who gives a flying flip?) So, even if the Lakers come calling with Lamar Odom I say screw him. Only Cleveland can offer cap space for 3 players on the Kings roster starting in 2009, and maybe throw a draft pick in too, and that's only something Cleveland has with expendable talent. That IS why I think this deal makes sense. Because of Ferry's need to pacify and ultimately satisfy LeBron, because the Cavalier's don't take a huge money hit by doing this deal (they're taking a hit already why not go for the gusto?0, and because they can afford to give up that 2009 1st rounder without a hint of a problem. Because of Mike Brown's past history with Artest. Because the Kings need to start rebuilding, and the only way they can do that is with cap room. Because the Kings, if they don't trade Artest, aren't winning the championship next year, and sticking themselves in the Bulls or Hawks shoes where they are good enough to get themselves in sticky posturing and poor negotiating level's in the process, need to commit to blowing this up now, get a draft pick or two, watch the young kids play, while allowing for natural growth no less, and let the Kings develop a new identity that allows the fan to root for an underdog. Or maybe the 70 degree heat and quality air has mindfucked my brain. You decide.
(This is a FanPost from a member of the Sactown Royalty community. The views expressed come from the member, and not Sactown Royalty staff.)
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Agree completely, there isn’t enough of a cap gain in 2009 to make it worth it with the Lakers. However, like you stated there is a logjam of bigs on the Cleveland roster that would get worse with your proposed trade. Hopefully, Cleveland can lineup a trade for a guard or two for Mikki or something along those lines. I get the feeling that Cleveland is desperate enough to do this its just a matter of finding another team to take a big off their hands.
by moproblemz on Jul 28, 2008 4:38 PM PDT 0 recs
I guess nobody has picked up on
that with a logjam of Bigs, you can just simply play LeBron at 2. What do the Cavs have to lose?
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
by pookeyguru on
Jul 28, 2008 5:37 PM PDT
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if i was a coach, my wet dream
is a 6’9” 260 pound shooting guard that knows how to pass. If they had Mikki, they could trade Varejo and his salary problems away rather easily (to the Suns, please, just so he and Lopez could be on the court at the same time).
There is only one reason D’Antoni took the Knicks job. That’s LBJ in the Garden. (and the tons of cash).
If I’m Ferry, I’m setting up to go for a championship before the summer of 10, and to have little to nothing signed right after. If LBJ decides to stay, you rebuild from scratch around him. If he leaves, you rebuild from scratch with tons of cap space, do the I’ll-take-your-bad-contracts-for-picks thing for three years, then hopefully have amassed enough youth and talent to be the 2013 Portland Blazers.
Mikki Moore in the skills challenge! - LPA
by iashwash on
Jul 28, 2008 6:34 PM PDT
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How does taking on any Kings player in this deal
Hurts the Cavs in 2010?
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
by pookeyguru on
Jul 28, 2008 6:40 PM PDT
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nothing
I didn’t say that detracts from the deal. In fact, what I said supports this deal – go for broke by acquiring Artest for nothing, but still keep the summer of ‘10 clear.
I’m agreeing with you dude. chilax.
Mikki Moore in the skills challenge! - LPA
by iashwash on
Jul 28, 2008 6:44 PM PDT
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Oh okay
I’m not worried about which side of the fence you’re on. It just seemed like the whole way you worded it seemed like the Cavs lost that 2010 flexibility they’ve always been banking on.
I’m chillaxed. Watching the “whole nine yards” at the moment, and laughing my ass off.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
by pookeyguru on
Jul 28, 2008 6:52 PM PDT
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agree with the premise but not the plan...
I agree that moving Artest with K9 is imperative. I also agree moving Mikki makes sense. I don’t agree that getting nothing but cap space and a LATE first round pick is enough (I assume you think this makes Cleveland better than last year).
Finally, i don’t think Cleveland makes this deal anyway. Where is Ron going to play? Where is Mikki going to play? Presumably K9 would find a new bench to warm in Cleveland. Cavs need to win now and Wally actually makes sense for the Cavs as someone who can sit on the 3 point line and receive passes from LeBron when he drives to the basket. LeBron is playing Ron’s position and I don’t think either translate well at the 2…. Ron can play some 4 but we couldn’t get Reggie do that much on a losing team. Cleveland nees a point guard and I suspect that these expiring contracts will be moved for one of those long before they pull the trigger on Ron.
I actually think Mikki’s value is underestimated. I have argued that Orlando seems like a good destination for him bringing back Reddick who might be a good player (seems to fit Petrie’s mold of pure shooters) on a one-year deal. (plus other cap-filler).
My model for rebuiliding is not too dissimilar to Boston’s… you need expiring contracts and attractive young talent to land the prized players about to hit free agency…. thus assembling as much young talent when making a move is imperative since no one is likely to deal a first round pick that will make a huge difference (i.e. a high lottery pick).
by longtimelistenerfirsttimecaller on Jul 28, 2008 4:40 PM PDT 0 recs
Agreed
I love the post. It gives me a lot to chew on. But at first blush I don’t see the Cavs taking on K9(Woof!) and Mikki. From the Kings perspective, we’ve talked about it before, but cap space is a tricky thing. I’ll take it, don’t get me wrong, but you also have to have a solid enough roster to attract a big name player. Especially if you are a location like Sac, that’s not exactly glamourous. With a first round pick that late, you might as well just say that you are trading Artest for cap space. The only reason that would appeal to me at all is the amount of cap space. But even then, the only improvement over an Odem deal is Mikki’s contract and a late, late, first round pick. I wouldn’t puke if this deal happened, but I wouln’t be dancing and singing either. To me this is a deal you do if you are coming down to the wire and nothing better comes along. It’s not a first choice.
"Being loquacious and being right aren't necessarily always the same."
GP, the man, the myth, the legend, puts the smackdown on Reggie
by SavageBeast on
Jul 28, 2008 4:51 PM PDT
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LA doesn't apparently want to give Odom up either
Because of Bynum. I don’t think Odom is the deal here. I don’t think offering Odom makes a shred of difference. Now instead of talking about a potential log jam in Cleveland’s front court you’re talking about a Kings front court with a serious log jam because of Odom’s ability to play the 3 & 4. I don’t like that idea, and I especially don’t like it because it’s time the Kings committed to these young group of players rather than going halfway and playing chicken. It’s just time dammit.
If you want more for Artest, and I’m going to say it again, like I have to your wife and everyone else, come up with a better trade. This isn’t a bitter request; merely a respectful one. You aren’t keen on my idea. Okay, it’s a free country (haha), and all that horseshit, but at least do us all a favor and pick your brain and do the same. I don’t expect a 1000 word essay on how Artets deserves more, but then again, this is Ron Artest. Equal trades don’t exist, have had this argument with Otis and JJ before, and they never will. If you want equal value for Ron Artest, in my opinion, you deserve to be in a padded room.
To me this is a deal you do if you are coming down to the wire and nothing better comes along. It’s not a first choice.This is not a hot commodity. Teams are interested, but they’re interested so THAT THEY CAN GET THE DEAL. They aren’t interested in making the Kings better. They’re interested in giving the KIngs expendable parts which don’t make them better. Which leads me back to: It’s okay you don’t like the deal and aren’t thrilled with it. Now come up with a realistic trade proposal that satisfies your demands. And don’t say Lamar Odom. That’s just a lazy copout.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
by pookeyguru on
Jul 28, 2008 5:35 PM PDT
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Let's start with the Odem deal and get that out of the way
You are quick to dismiss that deal, but in reality what does the Cleveland deal buy you that this doesn’t? Bottom line, $2M in savings and a late, late first round pick. In exchange you are getting players that will absolutely not help you, and you are starting a player who we have only seen in college and summer ball in JT. To me that is a recipe for disaster. Not only might you suck at the 4, but you also might ruin the confidence of a player who could otherwise work out. As mentioned in another post, think Kwame. If you trade for Odem, you get a player who can play the 3 or the 4 for at least 1 season. You might get a player that can fill either of those spots for several years. Or you might get a player with enough value that he can net you something in addition to a draft pick if you trade him again before February. In addition, if you get Odem, there is a reasonable chance you can trade Mikki. Maybe not, but maybe. Or Salmons.
The same goes for Howard if you can package K9(Woof!) in the deal. I also like the rumored deal where we trade Artest and Thomas to the Magic for Hedo and expirings. Or trade Artest straight up for a high first round pick and expirings. Or trade Artest and Mikki (if you can’t trade K9 (woof!) for expirings and a higher draft pick (of which there are several.)
My point with your Wally deal is that you are trading to a team that will have one of the lowest first round picks in the draft and no pieces we need. All it buys us is cap space one year ealier than we would have it otherwise. By combining one or two of several expendable pieces we have, it seems like the least we can get is a player we will keep, a higher draft pick, or one or two youngs.
Your serve.
"Being loquacious and being right aren't necessarily always the same."
GP, the man, the myth, the legend, puts the smackdown on Reggie
by SavageBeast on
Jul 28, 2008 7:31 PM PDT
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The key to this deal...
is cap space. Odom, Hedo, Marion are all shorter term fixes in contract as well as age. This deal allows the Kings to be aggressive in the 2009 FA period and gives the Kings a pick which is at least worth 3 million bucks and maybe more as a trade up piece or if LaBron gets injured and the Cavs fall apart.
As far as the JT/Kwame fear, that is pretty irrational. Kwame Brown was a 18-19 year old high school player, JT, a 4 year college grad. Add to the immaturity of Brown his abnormally small hands and lack of BB IQ, both of which JT has shown are not an issue. Thompson may not have the ceiling that NBA executives saw in Brown but his bust factor is way less also.
Hot dogs, get your hot dogs.
by jjham15 on
Jul 28, 2008 9:26 PM PDT
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The key to this deal is cap space.
But is it? The difference between the Cavs deal and the Odem deal is only $2M. And with the Laker deal, it’s entirely possible that could trade Odem before the deadline as part of another deal that gives you even more cap space if he didn’t work out. But more importantly, he may be the piece you want to keep. His numbers are very respectable.
As far as the JT/Kwame fear, that is pretty irrational.
So you’re that sure that JT is a starting NBA PF huh? Because your backup is Sheldon, who hasn’t shown anything intwo full seasons. And if JT isn’t ready to start right away, well it’s too bad because you traded away Mikki. Age is not what matters here. What matters is having a rookie come out and learn he can compete in a much tougher environment.
Now lets look at one more scenario. We keep Odem, but resign him for less money. That gives us two deep at 2, 3, and 4 (and maybe even one). It allows us to concentrate on only filling 2 positions at the most when we have money in 2010. If you look at Odem’s numbers, I don’t understand why you are so sure he is not the 4 of the future for us. This is a guy who just made it to the finals.
"Being loquacious and being right aren't necessarily always the same."
GP, the man, the myth, the legend, puts the smackdown on Reggie
by SavageBeast on
Jul 28, 2008 10:24 PM PDT
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Ok, let me take this one step at a time.
If the Kings make the ODOM deal, they save 14 mill but they would still have to buy out Moore for 2 million to save his money next season so it would only clear up an estimated 12 mill. total. Under the Cavs deal the Kings save 15 mill next year, a difference of 3 million and also gain a first round pick.
I do believe that JT is a starting PF in the NBA now and going forward. But I agree that entering this season with only he and Shelden Williams is a bit sketchy. My point about Thompson had more to do with your Kwame Brown analogy. I don’t think these guys are similar players at all. Thompson is a college graduate who played four years of ball regardless of level. Brown was very green with a ton of extra pressure placed on him due to his draft spot and midget hands. I see Thompson as a first year starter, his body is ready and his game looks pretty solid as well. FYI, I also proposed (scan down) the insertion of Varejao in this deal instead of Snow. Their salaries are almost a wash and Varejao has a player option for next season which he will probably exercise and attempt to get a long term deal. This would solve the Kings PF issues and the logjam that the trade would create for the Cavs.
Odom…I like him and have gone on record saying the exact same thing that you are. The issue I see is that Odom may not want to re-sign in Sac at all let alone at a reduced rate. I like his versatility and his game but if he walks the Kings are left empty handed without even the first round pick. At 29 (in October) Odom really can’t be looked at as the PF of the future especially when you consider that he is entering his 10th season in the NBA. A 5 yr extension would take him into year 15, probably a little risky.
I’m not sold on any of the deals we have been mulling over here and I would hate to see the Kings enter the season with Shelden as JT’s primary back-up. I definitely like this Cavs deal more than the other Cav deal which have been offered, especially if its for Wally, Varejao and a first with MM, K-9 and Ron going bye bye.
Hot dogs, get your hot dogs.
by jjham15 on
Jul 29, 2008 12:00 AM PDT
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I wouldn't mind Varejao however the Cavs may
According to ESPN, and the trade checker, and I’ve been reading Coon’s FAQ to find out if ESPN is correct, but haven’t so far, is that Varejao can’t be traded for a year without his consent. (Unfortunately Varejao signed his contract around December 20 last year so if that is in fact true trading for him will be next to impossible until then.)
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
by pookeyguru on
Jul 29, 2008 6:09 AM PDT
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Not disagreeing
I’m a little torn in that I’d like to see JT get significant minutes if he can play like we think he can. How nice would it be to see him as our PF of the future once and for all? But with JT backing him up, I get very nervous. Nervos anough that I probably wouldn’t want to trade Mikki unless I got back a PF in the deal. But if we trade for Varejao, he takes JT minutes just like Oedom would. Unless you are playing him at backup which I don’t think he’d go for.
Also, I’m not totally sold that Mikki’s contract alone or by itself is not tradeable. So the $3m in savings is assuming you have to cut Mikki. His numbers are reasonable for his salary.
So here’s my question. For the sake of argument, let’s say that we got Odom and could sign him at a reasonable price. That makes you solid at 2,3,4. You have two young guys at 1 and 5, and money to spend in 2010. You only have one or two spots to fill with your salary room. If you just get cap space though, it seems to me that you now that at very least you have 1,2, and backup or starting 4 to fill. And that’s assuming Salmons or Garcia is the starting 3 of the future. So if you go with Pooey’s straight cap space deal, what are you looking to buy as a future kings team? What’s your plan?
"Being loquacious and being right aren't necessarily always the same."
GP, the man, the myth, the legend, puts the smackdown on Reggie
by SavageBeast on
Jul 29, 2008 8:12 AM PDT
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No thanks on Odom
Don’t want him, he does nothing cuz he’s too old, and all it does it keep this team in the middle. Sorry, but no thanks on that. I’m tired of this team treading water. Blow it up, throw the kids to the sharks and go from there. I don’t care about a visually appealing product next season. I want to see this team have a future, and Odom is certainly not that.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
by pookeyguru on
Jul 29, 2008 10:11 AM PDT
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Not to be a dick SB
But you clearly are misunderstanding the whole point of what rebuilding is.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
by pookeyguru on
Jul 29, 2008 10:12 AM PDT
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The difference in cap space is 7 million SB
Not 2 million sir. This is where I think you missed the point. The salaries going out and coming are 21 million +. That’s a rather large difference. I think if you’re going to play a player, you might as well end up playing him. If the kid is going to be a superstar (not claiming he is), then he’s not going to do it sittng behind Lamar Odom. This isn’t a 22 year old kid learning to become the QB of the Dallas Cowboys.
Frankly, and I get your point, but if JT isn’t the answer, you won’t know it until several years down the road. That’s why I think the Odom solution is a copout. (In fact in the original replyI said something to that effect too. The Lakers may be willing to offer
Odom, but where is that extra 7 million in expiring space gonna come from?)
LA doesn’t apparently want to give Odom up either Because of Bynum. I don’t think Odom is the deal here. I don’t think offering Odom makes a shred of difference. Now instead of talking about a potential log jam in Cleveland’s front court you’re talking about a Kings front court with a serious log jam because of Odom’s ability to play the 3 & 4. I don’t like that idea, and I especially don’t like it because it’s time the Kings committed to these young group of players rather than going halfway and playing chicken. It’s just time dammit. That may not be your solution, okay, but there’s nothing wrong with finding out whether your player can play. Superstars are superstars, and they may show it. I’ve never heard of killing a kid’s confidence by playing him too much early. I’ve heard of ruining role players that way, but who cares about that? Let the Kid play? What have we lost? A 12th overall pick?
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
by pookeyguru on
Jul 29, 2008 5:44 AM PDT
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Great what Point Guard are they going to get for Eric Snow?
If Point Guards are such a hot commodity, why give up yours for cap space? I understand your criticism, and how it applies, but I disagree about LeBron being a 2. That’s a flat out lie. He plays anywhere of 3 positions offensively on the court, and he can play the 2 offensively with Ron around. It’s stupidity to think a player of LeBron’s ability, or Kobe’s, can’t play 2 positions. Jordan did it, Pippen did it, Magic did it, Larry did it. Why can’t LeBron if he is that truly great?
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
by pookeyguru on
Jul 28, 2008 5:40 PM PDT
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Oscar Robertson also did that too since we're mentioning versatile superstars
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
by pookeyguru on
Jul 28, 2008 5:40 PM PDT
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you're mentioning, not we're mentioning
Mikki Moore in the skills challenge! - LPA
by iashwash on
Jul 28, 2008 6:36 PM PDT
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I win! I win!
I haven’t been in favor of your Cavs ideas in the past but if the Kings can free up the extra 2 million of Moore’s contract buyout along with the extra first round pick I think I’m game. Now my only question is who plays PF along with Jason Thompson this season. Shelden really hasn’t proven that he is either a starter or even a reliable bench player. The Kings would need to add someone quick or take back another player (Varejao?) to make this work instead of Snow. Varejao fits the system and will most likely opt out after this season with the hopes of signing a long term deal, freeing up the cap space without the 2 mill of Moore’s buy out. This would also free up the log jam of players facing the Cavs and make this a slightly more equal trade fro all parties.
Moore, K-9 and Artest to Cavs
Varejao, Wally, and a #1 to the Kings
Hot dogs, get your hot dogs.
by jjham15 on Jul 28, 2008 5:10 PM PDT 0 recs
for not fro.... sorry got caught up in the moment/blinded by Varejao's hair.
Hot dogs, get your hot dogs.
by jjham15 on
Jul 28, 2008 5:12 PM PDT
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It's always possible
That Cleveland can deal Varejao after December 20th because the restrictions on how he can be dealt will expire a year after he signed his deal (December 20th) basically. That would free up the Cavs some space before next season if they so chose. Hell they could always turn around and flip Moore to a team with a trade exception if they wanted him. This gives Cleveland options if they have tradeable players with contracts that expire in the next year & half. Snow and Szczerbiak just aren’t that valuable players because they don’t do as much as Moore does on the court.
Well Shelden would play the PF. That’s kinda the point. See if he can? What have you lost? More games? You overwhelm Shelden? it’s his 3rd year in the league. If he isn’t ready now when he will be. That’s part of my whole problem. “What will we do if Shelden doesn’t pan out.” Then he doesn’t and you move in another direction. Wondering about Shelden’s play for this upcoming season is not a reason to not deal Mikki Moore IMHO.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
by pookeyguru on
Jul 28, 2008 5:30 PM PDT
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Are you sure about Varejao...
I seem to remember the Cavs and Warriors working on a trade that would have sent Harrington to the Cavs for Varejao around draft time.
As far as Shelden Williams, I was very excited to the Kings trade for a guy with the tool set that Williams displayed at Duke. But all of that excitement was pretty much squashed when I watched him play last year. He kind of reminds me of the proverbial AAAA player in MLB. He looks good in practice, good in summer league but when the ball is tipped in an NBA league game, his game goes to hell in a hand basket. I’m sure if the Kings sent him to the NBDL he would put on a show but I don’t think his game equates when the talent level of the opposition goes up.
I’m all for going young but if the Kings have an injury of any sort this deal sends not only 2 PF’s away but also Artest who can play the 4 in a pinch, leaving the team to search the waiver wire for junk in order to field a team.
Hot dogs, get your hot dogs.
by jjham15 on
Jul 28, 2008 9:13 PM PDT
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True
Or play a guy like Salmons out of position. But why worry about that?
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
by pookeyguru on
Jul 29, 2008 5:47 AM PDT
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I would like to see Shelden get an honest year's run of burn
I don’t think the amount of games you saw indicates much of anything, other than Shelden didn’t succeed in your eyes. After a year of honest burn, what can anybody say then?
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
by pookeyguru on
Jul 29, 2008 5:55 AM PDT
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Cap space = value?
‘m all for a deal with Cleveland (I think I was the first to argue it – whatever),
Anyone who as actually watched LaBron and Artest play should know that they can make that work on the court. labron plays 2 on offense, artest the 3, and they switch on D against most teams.
I also think that there is a chance they take on K-9 as it doesn’t affect thier 2010 problem, we get Wally, a guy who can play the 3 and provides some veteran leadership, a pick and/or potentially one of thier young prospects, say JJ Hickson or (?)((I’d take Hickson over a 28th pick – I think)). Wally may also be worth something at the deadline or could be re-signed cheap(?) to provide a long term vet off the bench. (I’m not a Wally hater at the right price)
I have a real problem (as all know) with the Laker deal. I don’t think we can/will re-sign Odem, I don’t want him to take minutes from our young bigs and I think he’s soft mentally (for all his talent), not an example I want for our young players. The lakers also can’t get us a pick. Of course, I also don’t think (as I’ve said ad nauseum) you trade with a division rival when the gain/advantage doesn’t potentially favor you long term, and with no pick or young prospect, a laker deal sounds like Media hype and/or desperation.
I also havn’t given up on SWilliams. I don’t think he’s a starter but he could still figure out that he’s an enforcer/intimidator off the bench, a valuable asset if he GETS it.
I also disagree (hope) that a sign and trade is unlikely, I know they’re difficult but – it looks more and more like Atlanta and Chicago may have injured thier relationships beyond repair. If they determine that is true, they may have nothing to lose…..
Gerald Wallace has had a lot of injury problems, Charlotte has no idea what they’re doing, LBrown loves D, would it be worth it to us to take a health risk with Wallace? It would rule out a k-9 trade but as i’ve said, I doubt we end up getting rid of him. I’m almost certain an interested team makes a switch to MM at the final moment – leaving K-9 to back up our young bigs (yuck).
Miami is not out of the question either (though I HATE marion), they need to show some upside as well as Cleveland or Wade may opt out for 2010. They could give us cap space, pick(s) and maybe a young prospect. They also need another shooter (Douby?).
Possibilities….
eternal skeptical optimist
by lietothegirls on
Jul 29, 2008 12:07 AM PDT
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Okay for the record
I thought about posting this elsewhere. If you trade Artest to Cleveland it’s possible the Cavs might consent to placing Varejao, but he has to consent to it himself. (It’s fairly unclear to me whether Varejao would lose his Bird rights doing this. That would be one reason for him to deny the trade, and the only reason.)
If you trade Artest and K9, for Snow and Varejao, that works under the salary cap too. (I’m good with that also as long as there is a 1st round pick.) So if you want to trade Eric Snow and Anderson Varejao for Ron Artest and Kenny Thomas it is possible provided Varejao does provide his consent (and what that entitles him giving up I’m not exactly sure). If the Cavs throw in a 1st round pick that’s not a deal worth not doing particularly if Lamar Odom is on the table.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
by pookeyguru on Jul 29, 2008 6:53 AM PDT 0 recs
PF Logjam
Doesn’t taking Varejao cause the exact same logjam at PF that you are against with Odom? Personally I don’t buy that JT is NBA ready—I’m willing to admit I could be totally wrong about that. But if your previous point was that you want to play JT to find out of he is a superstar, Varejao is going to take those minutes as well.
"Being loquacious and being right aren't necessarily always the same."
GP, the man, the myth, the legend, puts the smackdown on Reggie
by SavageBeast on
Jul 29, 2008 7:51 AM PDT
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Well okay
I don’t agree with you that it matters whether JT is NBA ready or not. (I think he’s ready to play. How much he’s ready to contribute, or more precisely how much he’s ready to contribute, is another matter.) I do think it matters he gets an opportunity to play from day one. You’re worried about what exactly? How good the team is next year? The return on Artest? I’m not exactly sure. I do know that everything you say there is one who’s worried about things that in the greater picture that I don’t see matters in any way. That’s why we’re disagreeing.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
by pookeyguru on
Jul 29, 2008 10:10 AM PDT
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I think that our difference boils down
to what you mention above. What exactly is rebuilding? Does it have to mean starting from scratch? Let’s say that we somehow manage to get rid of Miller, K9(woof!), Artest, and whoever else. What do you have left?
PG You have a player who will probably be adequate at best. Anyone see Beno being an allstar point guard? On a decent team he is a starter. On a great team he probably comes off the bench.
SG Clearly this is our strongest spot. K-Mart is an allstar waiting to be named, and he is locked up for a long enough time to play into our future needs. Back-up is adequate with QD, Garcia
SF A slightly improved version of the three headed hydra. No standouts, but a solid base of role players.
PF An unproven rookie and a player who has not shown anything in two years. This is a huge weak spot.
Center A second year player who appears to have some upside.
In addition to this you have cap space and maybe one or two late first round picks. Is this really what you want? because in my mind this is a team that wins 25 games at best. Yeah that’s rebuilding. The same way smashing a house to the ground with a wrecking ball and starting from scratch is.
Do you think that having cap space is going to suddenly let us fill all of these empty spaces? Do you feel that confident that Shawes, JT, and beno are the pieces we need long term? Because late first round draft picks are going pretty darn cheap these days.
In my mind, you MUST combine capspace with at least one player that can fill a need now. I am not saying don’t rebuild. I am saying, give me cap space/top ten first round picks AND atleast one solid fill-in-the gap player at the 1,2, or 5. I don’t care if it’s Howard, Marion, Odom, or someone else. But I think most people would agree that having cap space by itself is no guarantee of anything.
What susprises the heck out of me is that in Odom we are talking about a guy that averaged a double double over the course of the entire playoffs. We are talking about a guy who everyone on the team seems to like. We are talking about a guy who is great in the community. We are talking about a guy who can train our young 3’s and 4’s while providing quality minutes. And, hey if he doesn’t work out we can let him go at the end of the season. How is this a bad thing? Because we don’t get the 28th freaking pick in the draft?
Shoot, I’ll take you Wallyworld deal if that’s all that’s there. But all it buys us is a few million more next season and a draftpick we must sign regardless of how skilled he is. Forgive me if I just can’t get up and dance about that. So sell me. Show me what we are going to get next year with all that free cash.
"Being loquacious and being right aren't necessarily always the same."
GP, the man, the myth, the legend, puts the smackdown on Reggie
by SavageBeast on
Jul 29, 2008 12:39 PM PDT
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ricky rubio?
Mikki Moore in the skills challenge! - LPA
by iashwash on
Jul 29, 2008 12:42 PM PDT
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Okay now we are talking serious tanking
If I thought we could actually be bad enough to net even a top three pick and cap space I would be extremely tempted. But the thing is, I think we are just good enough to still only drop to 6-8 range if we completely gut the team.
"Being loquacious and being right aren't necessarily always the same."
GP, the man, the myth, the legend, puts the smackdown on Reggie
by SavageBeast on
Jul 29, 2008 12:53 PM PDT
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In a weak draft
Finding an all-star level SF is far easier than worth risking a pick on that type of player in a stronger draft with great big or PG talent.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
by pookeyguru on
Jul 29, 2008 1:00 PM PDT
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You never dance anyway.
(sigh)
TickTickTickTickTickTick
by LeaguePassAddict on
Jul 29, 2008 12:42 PM PDT
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hey just wait until my next big book contract
You’ll see dancing like you’ve only dreamed about. And actually that is a lie. I’ll dance when we trade Artest even if we only get a bag of chips. He bugs me that much.
"Being loquacious and being right aren't necessarily always the same."
GP, the man, the myth, the legend, puts the smackdown on Reggie
by SavageBeast on
Jul 29, 2008 12:45 PM PDT
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I'm gonna hold you to that.
TickTickTickTickTickTick
by LeaguePassAddict on
Jul 29, 2008 1:06 PM PDT
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Okay you're gonna make me break this down point by point since you kept going (you're going to get it buddy!)
PG You have a player who will probably be adequate at best. Anyone see Beno being an allstar point guard? On a decent team he is a starter. On a great team he probably comes off the bench.Outta curiosity where do you think trading Artest is going to solve that problem? Do you think I think that solves that problem? Because apparently you seem to have that issue. Where did I EVER mention that Udrih is not likely the starter on a championship level team? And why is it even important for a team coming off a 38 win season? Isn’t that at least a few steps away SB?
SG Clearly this is our strongest spot. K-Mart is an allstar waiting to be named, and he is locked up for a long enough time to play into our future needs. Back-up is adequate with QD, Garcia.I agree with almost all of this except for the “adequate” remark. Why is that even necessary? Backup players are players who bring things but have serious holes in their games. Isn’t that one thing that defines them from being starters? Again, why are you defining issues with a non-championship team, and using it as a criteria of trading Artest who is a part of that team? Why are you lumping the two together? Do you think that some team will go for broke trying to get Artest? If you do, and I think that’s a terrible fallacy, the same way it’s a terrible fallacy that getting something for him in a S&T is possible next summer because it still requires a team having cap room, and then wanting to spend it on Artest. Oui.
SF A slightly improved version of the three headed hydra. No standouts, but a solid base of role players.Sorry, but I disagree with this too. Salmons is not exactly a perfect fit for the Kings, and because he doesn’t work well as a backup to Artest, it’s clouding his true talent. Moore is a career backup and should be thought of as such. That’s a big difference there. Also, SF’s are much easier to find with talent than PF’s are, and when you’re looking at picks late in the draft, what do you think is the easiest position to find with star written all over him? (S-m-a-l-l..you get the point)
PF An unproven rookie and a player who has not shown anything in two years. This is a huge weak spot.No kidding you mean less talent means the Kings aren’t as good other teams? I hadn’t thought of that before. Why don’t we just say that the KIngs need a talent upgrade everywhere with proven talent, and then go out and do it. Umm, I think not. A fairly seemingly intelligent statement on the surface with no meat under it to back it up. 2 thumbs down.
Furthermore, how does a player prove himself? Sitting on the bench collecting splinters? Outplaying veterans who half ass practices to save energy for the actual games? What is proven by a rookie that isn’t at least illuminated somewhat by talent? I just don’t agree with that statement. If you see Thompson and says his game needs work that’s a reasonable statement. I saw JT in summer league and I think he needs work. I don’t think the Kings are any worse off playing him though during the season to get through his aches and pains any more than I am worried about the caliber of NBA players the Kings get back in an Artest deal.
I believe improvement comes from internal improvement of players, strong drafting, smart trades, no bad free agent deals (hello Rashard Lewis!), and of course management willing to make a tough decision to make a great one down the road. Quote me on it.
Center A second year player who appears to have some upside.Gee, well if Petrie doesn’t have any faith in Hawes why should we? I mean what was Hawes doing as a 10th overall pick? Impersonating a NBA big man? Give me a break. Find out about the kid and give him some time to grow. Live with the growing pains. It’s part of playing young players. Either live with it or root for another team with upside all the time, but don’t complain that it leaves the KIngs vulnerable. The Kings have nowhere to go but up, and worrying about winning 25 games versus 38 or 40 games is like worrying about having to eat 8 pounds of shit vs only having 5 pounds of shit to eat.
In addition to this you have cap space and maybe one or two late first round picks. Is this really what you want? because in my mind this is a team that wins 25 games at best. Yeah that’s rebuilding. The same way smashing a house to the ground with a wrecking ball and starting from scratch is.Let me get this straight. You don’t get what I want? I’ll tell you. Is it for the Kings to start with young players at the expense of only winning 25 games? Of course I mind a bad season, but I mind the Kings kind of season of a year ago more. This comes down to choosing the lesser of 2 evils. SB you’re an adult, and one whom votes I assume, I figured you might understand that part of it.
Cap room and draft picks is the only way a team can rebuild and do it appropriately. Trading Peja Stojakovic didn’t rebuild the Kings, but merely delayed the inenvitable. Sorry, I’m notnot taking that trip twice. I already ditched the Kings, and this blog, for nearly 2 years because of Artest’s presence. I’m not doing it again because some fans can’t handle losing 10 less games. I’m not going to sit here and take someone’s argument of ‘well they’re going to suck more’ when this team isn’t worth anything winning 10 more games with having a higher likelihood of a lower draft pick in the progress. That isn’t progress, but stuck in neutral. Does being in neutral actually move forward? Nope, it doesn’t. It stays in the same spot hence the definition. No thanks!
Do you think that having cap space is going to suddenly let us fill all of these empty spaces? Do you feel that confident that Shawes, JT, and beno are the pieces we need long term? Because late first round draft picks are going pretty darn cheap these days.Did I say it did? Did I imply that it would? Have I mentioned any problems with the roster? NO! I have not! And the reason is fairly simple. I would like to cross that bridge when this team has that opportunity rather than speculating, and praying to a God I don’t believe in, that it will happen. Oui.
Do you think that having cap space is going to suddenly let us fill all of these empty spaces? Do you feel that confident that Shawes, JT, and beno are the pieces we need long term? Because late first round draft picks are going pretty darn cheap these days.I don’t feel confident about any player to a winning team with the exception of Kevin Martin. But I also don’t know, and the longer you keep Mikki Moore is the longer you’re delaying that answer. But hey I’m all for Lamar Odom if you want that 40 win brass ring. I say go for it if perpetual mediocrity is your idea of a good time. It’s not mine. I don’t know what Beno, or Shawes, or JT’s contribution to this team is. But the longer veterans like Moore and Artest are around I won’t ever know and that question will always linger. I’m tired of it, and that’s why I’m pushing so hard for this.
In my mind, you MUST combine capspace with at least one player that can fill a need now. I am not saying don’t rebuild. I am saying, give me cap space/top ten first round picks AND atleast one solid fill-in-the gap player at the 1,2, or 5. I don’t care if it’s Howard, Marion, Odom, or someone else. But I think most people would agree that having cap space by itself is no guarantee of anything.As far as Odom I don’t see how a S&T helps the Kings. All it does is create more difficult circumstances to trade a player, and that’s okay by me, but Odom isn’t worth acquiring when those circumstances loom. Ditto with Artest, Marion or Josh Howard at some point (although that’s assuming you trade him years down the road as opposed to earlier). I’m not really interested in any of those guys except for Howard, and even then I think you have to then decide if you’re giving up Garcia in that same deal. I’m not really sure that’s worth it to make a lateral move that doesn’t put you any more forward or backward than you were before just to move Artest. That’s why I propose the cap room and draft picks. Does cap room get you studs? Especially when other teams have it? No, of course not. I’m not saying it does, nor am I saying it’s really that worth it. But I am saying that the Kings don’t have anything else to get, and if nothing else, cap room can always be rolled over while the Kings are rebuilding cheaply and what not. There are multiple ways to use cap room and the space it provides. You can always trade for a guy whose BYC you covet and other teams can’t take because they’re over the cap. That’s one example. I don’t want Odom because it won’t make the Kings a playoff team with his presence, and he’s likely to leave to a team with championship aspirations regardless of money. He’s already got alot of it after signing a 6 year deal for 80 sumthin mil with Miami in 2003. I don’t think money is everything to Lamar Odom at this point of his career. I don’t see how any other team would be desperate to get Odom while giving up what the Kings would want in the process. We’re biting at each other over small details, so just imagine how NBA GM’s who are in a very competitive business deal with each other over these things. It’s not a pretty sight in my view.
What susprises the heck out of me is that in Odom we are talking about a guy that averaged a double double over the course of the entire playoffs. We are talking about a guy who everyone on the team seems to like. We are talking about a guy who is great in the community. We are talking about a guy who can train our young 3’s and 4’s while providing quality minutes. And, hey if he doesn’t work out we can let him go at the end of the season. How is this a bad thing? Because we don’t get the 28th freaking pick in the draft?I said a similar thing about Miller on BlogaBull as far as helping players, but I was really referring to how he creates offense from the high post and gives guys confidence having easier shots to take. I don’t think Odom will do that, and his presence alone will keep Reggie Theus from playing JT or Shawes more minutes. I don’t want that. I don’t want cockblocking of the “kids” right now. I want them to play and give the franchise an idea of what their upside is. (Of course this is the same Kings franchise that kept pushing the ‘Mike Bibby is an all star’ farce years after it was true.) I want to see what they hold for this franchise’s future. Playing behind Lamar Odom won’t illuminate any talents on Jt or Shawes, but simply delay it. I’m not for delay. The Kings already played that game once and look where it took them?
Shoot, I’ll take you Wallyworld deal if that’s all that’s there. But all it buys us is a few million more next season and a draftpick we must sign regardless of how skilled he is. Forgive me if I just can’t get up and dance about that. So sell me. Show me what we are going to get next year with all that free cash.What am I Miss Cleo? Do you expecct me to read tarot cards and wear a head wrap? Cmon, how is anybody supposed to know that? Do you think the Kings franchise can possibly know that? Please dude get real. You want answers to feel comfortable (or that’s what it seems like), and I’m not capable of telling you what I see there. It just isn’t possible. (This reminds me of the editorial I read today in the Seattle Times about the housing bill, and it had the caption of 80 Bill, and there is a guy looking at saying: “Man that’s a big load.” The “80 Bill” was hooked up to a Ford SUV.) What do you want? Perfection? Welcome to real life dude. You’re an adult and so am I. You know better than that. I just think that’s a churlish response because you can’t think of anything you prefer and, unfortunately, you know it and so do I. The problem is I’m winning this argument, and because you don’t have a handy dandy response, it’s come off in cynical uninformed ways, If it was someone else I might not say that, but you’re not an idiot. So you don’t get up and dance about cap room and draft picks. Nobody is saying you have to. But as I said earlier in this diatribe, you cross one bridge at a time. That would be better to look at next summer when the time comes rather than debating circa an Artest trade IMO.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
by pookeyguru on
Jul 29, 2008 1:59 PM PDT
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Dude this may be yuor best example yet of making a very long-winded mountain out of a mole hill
This This is much simpler than you are making it. Rebuilding can be a 2-3 year project or it can be a ten year plus project (See the Bulls)
There are three things we need for rebuilding.
1 Cap space—We are going to have that now or in 2010. What I am asking you with my team description is what is the piece that you are drooling over that makes it so important to get cash a year early? I’m not against cash. But it’s not like we are the Knicks here. We WILL have cash two years from now at the latest, unless we sign more dumb contracts. We can debate what a dumb contract is. So getting cap space in 2009 vs 2010 has precious little impact on what we do down the road.
2 Picks. Perhaps this is where we disagree the most. I personally think a second round pick or very late first round pick is next to useless. Can you find a diamond in the rough? Sure. But just as often it’s a rotten egg. How can you say with a straight face, or a crooked one, that the Cavs pick is going to get us anything of long-term value with any degree of certainty?
If you are going to deal guys, lets at least look towards teams that don’t have a great chance of making it to their conference finals. This may be my biggest hang-up with the Cleveland deal. A 2009 Cleveland first rounder is going to be one of the lowest available.
3 Trades. My whole point which you seem to be conveniently overlooking is that somewhere in this whole gut-the-team mentality has to be a trade that nets us a player that can fill a hole for the next 5 years. If not, we are going to be that crappy team that manages a top ten draft pick every year but never makes it over the hump. Don’t think it’s Odom? Fine. But it sure isn’t Wally, or Varejao for that matter. It could be Howard. It could be Brother Hedo. It could be any number of people. I personally still think it could be Marion. But that’s debatable.
Bottom line. If we can obtain a very good player as part of the Artest trade, we will have two to three very good players and an excellent player. Then you only need to get that one guy who will jump at the big bucks and you are right back in the saddle. I could care less whether we win 25 games or 40 games this season, as long as way are playing hard. But I care very much about whether we are still winning 25-40 games two or three years from now.
Thanks for the backhanded compliment I think. But where have I said anywhere that I have a problem trading Artest? Cynical? I think that this


