Miller-to-the-Bulls Trades That Work For Me
by Tom Ziller on Jul 29, 2008 11:41 AM PDT
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PrintI'm not pleased with any deal including 28-year-old Andres Nocioni, who will make $29 million over the next four years guaranteed. Nocioni is an upgrade on John Salmons -- historically, Andres is a better shooter and more frequent scorer, and a pretty good rebounder and defender. But he's not nearly enough of an upgrade to take him on for that lengthy a contract when you already have Salmons on a fair salary -- not to mention Ron Artest.
But who am I to deny the Bulls their desire, which appears to possibly be according to a rumor Brad Miller?
Miller for Drew Gooden, Joakim Noah, and Cedric Simmons
Gooden expires next summer and could a) be flipped for something at the deadline, or b) replace Mikki Moore as the 'designated veteran' in a Millerless frontcourt. Gooden has more value today and in February than Mikki -- Gooden doesn't cost $2 million in buy-out funds next fall, and he's younger and a better scorer. Reggie Theus isn't starting Jason Thompson and Spencer Hawes together this season, nuh uh no way. Gooden's a good plug while that's the case.
Noah has been an apple in Geoff Petrie's eyes for two years. He's another active, athletic, skilled big. And he hates Ben Wallace and loves brandy, just like the rest of us.
Simmons means you have to cut Patrick Ewing and Sean Singletary, unless you wait until training camp, decide you hate Simmons, decline his 2009-10 option and eat his $1.7 million to cut him and keep Singletary.
This deal would put the Kings roughly $18 million under the cap next summer, before accouting for restricted free agent Francisco Garcia.
Miller for Luol Deng, in a six-year, $60-65 million sign-and-trade
The Bulls fans (especially Blog-a-Bull's Matt) won't broach it because the idea of losing Luol is too painful, too utterly and viciously painful. Deng is a beautiful creature, he and Kevin Martin would make the sweetest music. If Deng comes to Sacramento, I will walk to Geoff Petrie's house, ring his doorbell thrice, look into the peephole, ring thrice more, casually glance into the front window, concede defeat, and leave the bouquet of roses and first-born son on the doorstep with a note that says, "Thank you."
This deal would put the Kings in Awesomeville (population: Kings).
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That first trade isn't worth it
and that second trade won’t be done – Paxson won’t like to come off looking like he failed. I’d rather have Miller than Gooden, cap space be damned, and Noah isn’t enough of an apple in my eye. But who knows what Petrie thinks… maybe he likes Gooden and wants Noah. If that’s the case, I won’t cry if it happens, but I’m hardly going to applaud the trade.
I’m not sure how esteemed of Deng I am (haven’t seen enough of him), but leaguewide everyone seems to approve, so I would approve
Mikki Moore in the skills challenge! - LPA
TZ got some issues with this
I agree with you about Noc, and don’t want him.
Has it been proven that Petrie fell in love with Noah? Not saying one way or the other, but I've seen stuff to suggest that he was as equally dismayed (by the non-workout) as he was infatuated with him.I like the idea of Gooden more than Noc myself, alot more, and if you include Simmons/Noah I guess that’s a doable deal. I still prefer the Cleveland option of trading Artest/Thomas/Moore to Cleveland and bringing back Varejao/Szczerbiak/Snow/1st rounder if only because moving Artest and Thomas is available in this scenario. (Assumign that it actually exists which is a rather large presumption, which is the only reason I’m even discussing the Gooden possibility right now.) That being said moving Kenny Thomas and Ron Artest is not possible to the Bulls without taking Noc back. No thanks.
I’m not sure if you realize this TZ (I didn’t realize it until reading Chad Ford’s comments yesterday), but doing a S&T with Chicago means Deng immediately becomes BYC and the Kings can’t match Deng’s value under that scenario. Plus, I’d rather not have Deng for that dollar amount.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
Since SB2.0 messed up my 2nd comment
What I was saying that I’m not sure it’s been proven that Petrie is in love or not in love with Noah. It’s merely speculation, and I’ve seen speculation on 2 ends of that boat. I just don’t know that Noah makes Petrie hot to trot as much as some may want to think. (I could also be completely wrong.)
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
Complaint from Blog-a-Bulls torch
That I think holds some merit: that first trade really thins out the Bulls frontcourt. All they’d have left woul be Miller, Tyrus and Noc. Not really doable for them, is it, unless they plan on picking up a big from somewhere.
Mikki Moore in the skills challenge! - LPA
Huh?
How does it work if Luol is BYC?
BOOK IT!
It wouldn't kingme
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
Just to clarify...
So there’s no way the Kings could get Deng in a sign-and-trade? I don’t really understand how the BYC condition works… why would this make us unable to get him?
by AnotherStupidSN on Jul 29, 2008 3:23 PM PDT up reply actions
It makes Deng's trade value half of what his salary is
Example Deng makes 10 million but the Bulls can only take 5 million back in salary.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
To add to your point (for everyone else)
This is why a third team is usually needed in trades involving BYC players.
To expand on Pookey’s example, if Chicago could get Memphis to eat $5M somewhere (since Memphis is the last team standing with the cap space to do so), then a deal could work.
Chicago – $5M out (Deng), $5M out (to Memphis), $10M in (this is just an example)
Sacramento – $10M out (example), $10M in (Deng)
Memphis – $5M in (absorbing salary with their cap space)
I hope this helps to clarify, and again, this is just an example . . . so please don’t interpret it as anything else. This is for the better understanding of the affects of BYC players in trades.
I can't believe you think
Memphis would do this trade. You are an idiot.
Nice example.
Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott
by Kfan in Korea on Jul 29, 2008 11:09 PM PDT up reply actions
Thanks Kfan
I almost thought you were serious, and was ready to fire back . . . until the realization hit that I’d just been had.
Point: Kfan.
Sorry
I felt an undeniable urge to misinterpret your intent considering the great pains you took not to be misunderstood. I’m childish that way.
Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott
by Kfan in Korea on Jul 30, 2008 4:28 PM PDT up reply actions
To be honest I think TZ was making the point
That he would only do one feasible trade, and one impossible trade.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
Yeah you right
How could I ever doubt you? (Floggs himself repeatedly in the Catholic tradition he doesn’t believe in.)
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
I like the second option
Noah and cap space, plus a couple of easily packaged trade pieces.
With the caveat, of course, that it’s not the only deal that gets done this summer.
TickTickTickTickTickTick
by LeaguePassAddict on Jul 29, 2008 12:40 PM PDT reply actions
can't help myself
but who doesn’t like a three-way? Bulls get Miller and Odom; Lakers get Artest and K9, Kings get Thomas (1 year), Nocioni (4 years), Gooden (1 year), and Sefolosha (1 year). Not suggesting this makes us a winning team, but gets cap space quicker and usuable assets…
by longtimelistenerfirsttimecaller on Jul 29, 2008 12:55 PM PDT reply actions
I don't think the Kings want to touch Nocs contract with a fifteen foot pole.
Mikki Moore in the skills challenge! - LPA
i'm not a noah fan either
yes, he’s the type of high-energy, rebounding big man that every team could use. but he’s also a bonehead who can’t make a jumpshot to save his life.
I don't like big men who rely on their jumpers
And if we had Noah and Hawes in the front court, I would especially hate to have Noah be in love with the jumper, because Hawes is.
Please, let’s get somebody down there who can BANG with the big boys.
TickTickTickTickTickTick
by LeaguePassAddict on Jul 29, 2008 1:11 PM PDT up reply actions
How About
Miller for Gooden, Simmon and Gray. That way we get back a somewhat serviceable backup center to Hawes/Moore
He can shoot, and he looks great in a suit. Hey, everybody - It's REGGIE TIME!
I'm Assuming
Chicago probably will not want to give up Noah
He can shoot, and he looks great in a suit. Hey, everybody - It's REGGIE TIME!
Some Bulls fans expressed
problems with giving up depth where they’re already pretty light as opposed to being guard heavy.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
Personally
I would love to get Gooden. After Artest leaves the lineup would be:
PG-Udrih/Singletary/Brown
SG-Martin/Garcia/Douby
SF-Salmons/Garcia/Thompson
PF-Gooden/Thompson/Moore/Simmons
C-Hawes/Williams/Moore/Gray
I still don’t like Moore as the PF. It doesn’t seem to fit him. He has no POWER in his power forward. I would use Moore strictly as a backup.
He can shoot, and he looks great in a suit. Hey, everybody - It's REGGIE TIME!
You are the first person to slate Jason Thompson as a SF (as a comment)
Why is that noone else thinks that’s possible I wonder?
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
I assume that's a sarcastic response
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
so has anyone else noticed
that the uniform story was taken down here, and the language of Abbott’s piece on TrueHoop changed from “Sacramento, Minnesota, and Orlando” to “some teams?” looks like he may have broken a story that was not was not intended to break. whoopsie.
That's pretty strange
I can understand ESPN pulling it at the NBA’s request, but not sure why STR would pull it. Maybe TZ is hoping to get credentialed.
Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott
by Kfan in Korea on Jul 29, 2008 5:45 PM PDT up reply actions
Yes that's probably why TZ pulled it actually
I was wondering why too. Thanks for the explanation Beev.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
Artest has been traded to the Rockets
Anyone else heard about it?
by Fire Stern Now! on Jul 29, 2008 5:45 PM PDT reply actions
There is a fanpost and 2 fanshots up
Discuss this there. This thread is about Miller to the Bulls.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
My bad, chill
You heard it here first though.
by Fire Stern Now! on Jul 29, 2008 6:15 PM PDT reply actions
Already read it somewhere else
Dude I can understand you think I’m being anal retentive on this. I’m not. What happens is that certain threads were written for a reason. I don’t want my stuff being crapped on with this nonsense, and if you spent time writing this stuff you wouldn’t either. Respect those who write here, and everyone else who does abide by this. I’ve only posted one thing, and that was a request to stop posting 75 word count fan posts on the same exact thing. Now we’ve become Golden State of Mind and Blazers Edge. We don’t want to have that problem crop up every time news does.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
When i posted my comment
nobody else had written anything about Artest being traded. Thats why i said you heard it here first.
Oh, and I do think you’re anal retentive, but not because of this. I understand what you mean about the posting in the right place, though. My bad.
by Fire Stern Now! on Jul 29, 2008 6:52 PM PDT reply actions
I'm obsessive compulsive bud
Not quite the same thing.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
Actually, your wrong
Your post was at 8:45… the Fanpost was at 8:41. Considering it takes longer to create a FanPost than it does to create a comment, you were off by a cool five minutes my friend. Step your game up next time.
Now I can put my pink lace bra and panties back on. - Kfan in Korea
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