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Petrie The Talent Evaluator vs Petrie The Negotiator

Star-divide

First and foremost, the Kings would be nowhere without Petrie in my opinion.  Before Petrie, the roster was a jumbled mess.  Random players, horrible coaches, poor draft picks.  After Petrie, the franchise had purpose and direction for the first time in the Sacramento era.  While the C-Webb Kings didn’t win a championship, that team made Sacramento hoops relevant in the NBA.  Say whatever you want about Petrie, but the man always has a plan and he doesn’t deviate from it. 

 

That being said, I wonder if Petrie’s record in talent evaluation has masked his weakness in contract negotiations.  As proof, his past draft picks, trades, and free agent deals/contract extensions:

 

FIRST ROUND DRAFT PICKS

 

1996: Peja. 

Players selected directly after Kings pick: Nash, Jermaine O’Neal, John Wallace

 

1997: Abdul-Wahad. 

After Kings pick: Croshere, Derek Anderson, Mo Taylor, Calvin Kato

 

1998: J-Will. 

After Kings pick: Larry Hughes, Dirk, Pierce, Bonzi

 

1999: No Pick

 

2000: Hedo

After Kings pick: Desmond Mason, Quentin Richardson, Jamal Magloire

 

2001: Gerald Wallace

After Kings pick: Dalembert, Tinsley, Tony Parker

 

2002: Dan Dickau

Last Pick in the first round.

 

2003: No Pick.

 

2004: Kmart

After Kings pick: Sasha Vujacic, Beno, David Harrison

 

2005: Cisco

After Kings pick: Luther Head, Johan Petro, Jason Maxiel, Kleiza

 

2006: Douby

After Kings pick: Balkman, Rondo, Marcus Williams

 

2007: Hawes

After Kings pick: Acie Law, Thaddeus Young, Julian Wright, Thornton

 

Yes, some of the names selected behind the Kings picks have been a bit more sexy (Nash, Dirk, Pierce)…but this list doesn’t take into account need.  1998 for example.  Kings needed a point guard.  They picked Williams.  Only pick that looks unforgivably bad right now is Douby.

 

Petrie “missed” on more picks than I thought but his hit rate is still around 50%...not bad considering the majority of these picks were towards the end of Round 1.

 

 

NOTABLE TRADES (filler players excluded)

 

  • Richmond for Webber
  • Corliss for Christie
  • Abdul Wahad for Nick Anderson
  • J-Will for Bibby
  • Hedo, Pollard for Miller
  • Webber for K9, Corliss, Skinner
  • Christie for Mobley
  • Peja for Artest
  • Bobby Jackson for Bonzi
  • Bibby for Sheldon and expirings

Petrie won nearly every trade.  Bibby and Webber went out on salary dumps…count those more against the Maloofs than Petrie.  Mobley, Bonzi, and Artest have been far from earth-shattering deals but each of them out-performed the player they were traded for.  The Webber acquisition, Christie, and Bibby deals were ridiculously one-sided.

 

 

NOTABLE FREE AGENCT CONTRACTS/EXTENSIONS

 

  • Vlade…6 years/60MM
  • Webber…7 years/123MM
  • Christie…7 years/49MM
  • Miller…7 years/68MM
  • Bibby…7 years/81MM
  • Bonzi…5 years/37MM (thank you Bonzi for saying no)
  • Salmons…full MLE/5 years
  • SAR…full MLE/5 years
  • Mikki…full MLE/2 years + option
  • Beno…full MLE/5 years
  • Martin…5 years/50MM

 

Forgive me if some of my numbers are off.  Most of the above was done from memory.  But yikes.  The only deal on this list that looks solid is Martin…and that assumes he continues his upward trend.  I understand Petrie had to over-spend in the beginning to get players to consider Sacramento (see Vlade)…that’s part of the process in turning a doormat into a contender.  But I seem to remember at least three deals where the Kings were already established (Webber, Miller, Bonzi) and no one else was even close to the numbers Petrie offered.  The Christie, Bibby, Bonzi deals/offers were all deemed over-priced within one or two years of the agreement.  Injured or not, SAR has been a bust.  Mikki was fine last year but not worth the full MLE.  Jury is out on Salmons and Beno.  If Salmons becomes a starter in the future, I think he’ll be worth it.  If not, no.

 

I understand it’s much easier to pass judgment on these deals now as opposed to when they were signed.  But that’s what you pay your GM for, no?  To have vision.  To predict how players will perform down the road.  To pay them accordingly.  To manage the salary cap.  Whether it’s too much involvement from the Maloofs, the need to overpay because of location (Sac vs Miami/LA/Boston/etc), or his inability to properly read the market, Petrie has overpaid too often and the cap has been hurt because of it. 

 

This aspect of a GM’s job is far too often overlooked.  I’m not saying talent evaluation isn’t important because that’s huge.  But you wouldn’t rather have the $15MM cash instead of SAR, Mikki, and Salmons right now?  Those players haven’t added anything to the Kings other than moving them further back in the draft.  Personally, I'd rather have minimum salary players, a few years to take it on the chin, and the resulting high draft pick.

 

I’m not sure what the answer is.  But I know teams like the Spurs and Pistons have set the model.  They’re aggressive in negotiations and they don’t give in to an agent’s demands.  Sure, championships will help you accomplish that.  But they have consistently been able to sign their stars to below-market level deals (Duncan, Mano).  They stay away from long-term deals for role players (Salmons, Moore, SAR, Beno).  They let players go before the rest of the league sees what they see (Ben Wallace).  They maintain cap flexibility.  And now it seems like the Sonics and Blazers are adapting the same model.  Why not the Kings?  Why not Petrie?

 

I want to reiterate again that Petrie’s impact on the Kings has been HUGE…I just worry that he may be getting passed up by the likes of Buford, Presti, and Dumars.  And I worry that the Kings ultimate goal is to clear up cap space for 2010.  I would much rather see Petrie fleece some unsuspecting GM this off-season (I know it’s not exactly popular here but I would love to see Marion or Kirilenko in town…or both) than overspend for a fringe player in 2010.  We've already seen Petrie the Negotiator once this off-season...now I'd love to see Petrie the Talent Evaluator.

(This is a FanPost from a member of the Sactown Royalty community. The views expressed come from the member, and not Sactown Royalty staff.)

7 recs  |  Comment 21 comments |

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Great post

And rec’d.

Kevin Pritchard has Chuck Norris tied up in the trunk of his car.

by otis29 on Jul 9, 2008 1:50 PM PDT reply actions  

Ummmm I like your post

But Duncan is paid well above what stars make. He’s paid like a superstar. It’s just that noone else on the San Antonio roster is.

Detroit has 3 players making 10 million plus.

As far as being passed up by Buford that happened years ago. But then again Petrie never had Duncan to start with either.

Dumars is a matter of opinion. I’m not that impressed but others are. Some of the money negotiations are done by owners rather than just GM’s. The Pistons owner, Bill Davidson, is a very tough negotiatior apparently.

Was Wahad a mistake? Considering what the Kings needed? Jackson didn’t set the world on fire in Denver either. It took him a couple years to figure things out. Pollard got cut by the Hawks after being selected in the low 1st round. Had Wahad stayed healthy he would might have been a better player than either guy. Matter of opinion, but the argument could be had.

I agree about talent evaluation vs money negotiation on the whole and it is the main weakness that is currently littered with overpaid talent, or with players who were supposed to keep the Kings competitve while “re-tooling”.

This is definitely rec’d by me.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on

by pookeyguru on Jul 9, 2008 2:17 PM PDT reply actions  

Right...

My mistake on Duncan. Meant to put Mano and Parker in there…not TD. You’re right…he is very well-paid.

As far as Dumars, I’m not personally a huge fan. But you can’t argue with the model he’s built. Playing in the East has helped but that team is always playing when it matters. Wasn’t aware of Davidson’s involvement…but something or someone is working there.

Regarding the Kings…they need someone else to negotiate contracts in my mind. Someone who can provide balance for Petrie. Can’t imagine Petrie would be okay with that but I think it would help tremendously.

by HardRockTroy on Jul 9, 2008 3:05 PM PDT up reply actions  

To be fair to everyone concerned

I think negotiating has improved, and there have been some good deals negotiated over the time Petrie has been here. He didn’t overpay Brian Grant, and he didn’t overpay Peja Stojakovic, or Bobby Jackson. The Maloofs didn’t negotiate those deals though, and deals like Webber, Bibby and Miller he didn’t have total money control over. Much of this roster’s current problem is directly or indirectly because of those contracts.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on

by pookeyguru on Jul 9, 2008 3:14 PM PDT up reply actions  

Dumars

I have a hard time considering Dumars a top GM if only for the fact that he had the second pick in the deepest draft in a decade and ended up with Rodney Stuckey.

by smgmatt on Jul 10, 2008 7:27 AM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Good point

Maybe the even better point is that he should have taken Chris Bosh (Not Carmelo or Wade).

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on

by pookeyguru on Jul 10, 2008 7:35 AM PDT up reply actions  

Agreed

I’ve always thought Bosh was the best fit for that Detroit team, even when I didn’t think he was the best player of those 3.

by smgmatt on Jul 10, 2008 7:39 AM PDT up reply actions  

Something told me you were a smart guy

Never could quite place my finger on it, but now I know. It was Bosh with the candlestick in the lavatory!

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on

by pookeyguru on Jul 10, 2008 7:40 AM PDT up reply actions  

so... intelligence is determined by whether or not people agree with you?

interesting litmus test.

Mikki Moore in the skills challenge! - LPA

by iashwash on Jul 10, 2008 10:55 AM PDT up reply actions  

Yes exactly

Now you’re figuring it out. You agree with me, and you’re a smart guy. You disagree, and you’re a moron. :)

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on

by pookeyguru on Jul 15, 2008 5:45 PM PDT up reply actions  

you had me right til the end...

Marion and AK-47 are poster-children for being overpaid? why would you argue that Petrie overpays his players or FA’s, then argue he should trade for overpaid players?

by longtimelistenerfirsttimecaller on Jul 9, 2008 4:57 PM PDT reply actions  

Webber, Bibby, Christie, Miller

Geoff gave those guys contracts under the assumption that this group was going to last longer. Had Webber’s knee never gone out, I think the Kings would have won the championship in 2003 and definately would have contended in 2004. That’s not even counting the infamous 2002 series. With all that in mind (1-2 championships) I don’t think there is anything wrong with those contracts. Christie’s and Bibby’s contracts might have been a couple years too long but hindsight is 20/20. Webber is two seasons removed from a 20 and 10 season on a bum knee with Allen Iverson as a teammate. Had his knee not gone out he might very well have made the contract seem worth it. And other than one bad season, Miller has a been a top center in the league. That all being said, the Bonzi offer was ridiculous and these MLE offers need to stop. Geoff seems to be trying to turn these MLE’s into bargains. Lets hope it works with Beno.

by blako on Jul 9, 2008 7:29 PM PDT reply actions  

Bonzi?

Now we’re holding Petrie accountable for deals that weren’t signed?

Great post, though my bet is that if you ran Petrie’s spending against the other teams that were contending through that same period (small list when you consider how long we were a playoff team) you’d find similar salary hits and misses.

Again, great research. Rec’d.

SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Jul 9, 2008 10:02 PM PDT reply actions  

Dallas Mavericks anybody?

Phoenix Suns anybody? Los Angeles Lakers? Utah Jazz? San Antonio Spurs?

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on

by pookeyguru on Jul 10, 2008 2:21 AM PDT up reply actions  

Good post

I would quibble with your analysis a bit, but great job putting this together – it’s an insightful and complete look at the major deals Petrie has made with the Kings.

by Carl on Jul 10, 2008 10:06 AM PDT reply actions  

Solid deals listed

Yikes?
Championship crew

Cwebb was THE premier PF in the league!
Vlade – a key championship piece.
Bibby – universally aknowledged at the time as one of the best (top 3) PGs in the league
Christie – a defensive stopper

Holding on/rebuilding

BMiller – a top ten Center who needs to play alongside a true ‘rim’ player
(did you see what Bogut just got?!!!)
Kmart – (only if he continues getting better?) top five scorer in the league!
SAR – a 20/10 guy who’s knees just went bad (MLE is not overpaying)
MM – not overpaid as an excellent reserve and locker room guy, [short term contract]
Beno – proved he is at least some sort of NBA starter – and a big ‘need’ signing (MLE!)
Salmons – unfortunately only productive as a starter, but … (hell I don’t know)

I have almost no complaints about any of those deals – things just didn’t come together.

eternal skeptical optimist

by lietothegirls on Jul 10, 2008 10:17 AM PDT reply actions  

But

I agree that at this point the Douby pick isn’t looking that good. At best (if things go well)he appears to be a 6th or 7th scoring option off someones bench.

eternal skeptical optimist

by lietothegirls on Jul 10, 2008 10:23 AM PDT reply actions  

The biggest problem with Douby

Turns out, he probably can’t play PG in the L.

If he plays the 1 good enough to be a back-up, it’s a decent pick (NJ’s got Marcus Williams on the table, so it’s not like he’s tearing the league up, although Rondo would have been nice, obviously). GP picked him with the idea that he could be a back-up PG, and it just hasn’t worked out that way (much to all of our chagrin).

by smgmatt on Jul 10, 2008 10:49 AM PDT up reply actions  

I think Petrie wanted a guy who could play both spots

But to do that you have to be able to handle the ball. Douby hasn’t shown that part of it yet. The defending big 2’s would obviously provide a tremendous challenge too. Also, he hasn’t gotten any consistent time, and given no confidence. Douby has a ways to go, and can get there, but he can’t get there if he’s confused every day on what his role is. Quincy Douby is the classic example of how coaches fail in the league. They fail to clearly communicate with young talent how they see playing time, and young players prove why they’re such a risky proposition by clearly not understanding what’s needed of them and where their culpability leads to their not making it in the league.

I think Douby will end up having staying power in the league. The question at this point is whether it’s in Sacramento or somewhere else. If he can shoot, and he can, teams place a premium on having those players. It’s just a question of whether Douby wants to stay in the league at this point.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on

by pookeyguru on Jul 10, 2008 1:10 PM PDT up reply actions  

Thats pretty good

If Wahad and Douby are your “worst” picks you are doing pretty well, there is not a bust in that list, I suspect Douby could end up as a instant offense energy guy off the bench some where, maybe not in Sacramento.

Of course who knows what Hawes will end up doing either

by Murf on Jul 10, 2008 10:53 AM PDT reply actions  

Hawes

Whatever he becomes it won’t be for lack of effort – and thats a real positive. I’m not sure why we’re so worried, not quite 20 yet is he? lets see how this year goes.

eternal skeptical optimist

by lietothegirls on Jul 10, 2008 10:59 AM PDT up reply actions  

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