A look ahead - The rebuilding phase and the Summer of '10
by eduardo_m7 on Aug 1, 2008 1:56 AM PDT
49 comments
So now that Ron Artest is on his way out of town and now that we know what we are getting from the Rockets (mainly Greene and next year's draft pick), the (true) rebuilding phase is well on its way. The youth movement should be in full force this coming season and we now have a better idea of what the future looks like.
Something that looks fairly clear in the minds of many Kings fans is that Geoff Petrie is clearing cap space for the big summer of '10 when a good number of quality players will be available. If the Kings were to get enough cap space, and wih the expiring contracts they have they seem well on their way to do that, the decision would have to be made as for who they would pursue. Now this is an obvious open question, considering we are still 2 years away and we are not exactly sure what's gonna happen, but a valid one nonetheless.
Here's a list of potential high profile free agents for the summer of '10 (list from ESPN):
Joe Johnson
Ray Allen
LeBron James
Josh Howard
Dirk Nowitzki
Tracy McGrady
Yao Ming
Dwayne Wade
Richard Jefferson
Michael Redd
Tyson Chandler
Steve Nash
Amare Stoudemire
Manu Ginobili
Chris Bosh
And this list does not even include some of the restricted free agents such as Brandon Roy, LaMarcus Alridge, Rudy Gay, and others.
There's plenty of options but the beauty of situation is that you can't just go for the biggest name out there because as we all know (or at least we should) LeBron is not coming to Sacramento, probably neither is Wade. Not only that, but we need to take into consideration what the Kings already have. K-Mart is the face of the franchise right now and a star in the making IMHO and is not going anywhere so probably looking for a 2 guard is not the plan. Although is very early, many have expect Hawes and JT to become the starting PF and C for the Kings. We also have Beno signed for 5 years at a decent amount and behind him we just got a young prospect (Brown) who was coveted by the Hornets to back up CP3. Salmons has shown to be a good starter and Cisco is the perfect 6th man (echoing and agreeing with some opinions around here), and we just got a young guy who did pretty good in summer league (Greene). So what do we do? Who's the guy we want to get in the summer of '10? What would the Kings need? Many have said that our future lineup could look something like Beno/K-Mart/Greene/JT/Hawes. Now I don't disagree with that, it actually sound awesome, but then, where would this free agent fit?
My theory is that maybe one of the bigs won't develop as we hope for and we would target Amare, Bosh, or Chandler. At the same time, the SF position seems to be the unpredictable one with Salmons not looking like the piece of the future (and considering Cisco would stay in his 6th man role) so the Kings may be in the run for Redd, Howard or Jefferson (not great options, I know. I just don't see better 3s in that list).
I'm more interested in seeing what others think cause a lot is made of the big summer of '10 but nobody really says what the plan is. Here is to GP and trusting he has a good plan...
(This is a FanPost from a member of the Sactown Royalty community. The views expressed come from the member, and not Sactown Royalty staff.)
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If Hawes just turns into Brad Miller #2...
I believe we’re stacked at the forward position now, since we have Garcia, Salmons and Greene/Thompson can both play the 3 and 4.
If Hawes doesn’t pan out, or just turns into a Brad Miller Jr, I’d say we should bring in an athletic Center like Amere or Bosh, then Hawes could be the main back-up for Amere/Bosh and Thompson.
This would be the lineup, factoring in draft picks…(assuming Thompson/Greene turn out nice)
Beno – Brown – 09 draft pick (Brendon Jennings, anyone?)
Martin – Salmons – Douby
Greene – Garcia – Salmons
Thompson – Hawes – Greene
Amere/Bosh – Hawes
If this were our main line-up, I’d call it Phoenix ver 2.0. This line-up would be a ball of fire up and down the court.
As for the PG position, the 2010 FA market isn’t that deep in PGs. Nash is getting old and as you say, Wade isn’t coming to Sac.
by CloudyEyes on Aug 1, 2008 2:40 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
This looks
a lot like a mock 2010 Kings roster I came up with a few weeks ago in a post. The premise is we clear salary cap space and develop the younger players by subtracting most of the current vets, and make a few choice moves.
Only differences between this roster and mine:
I had the Kings drafting Ricky Rubio instead of Jennings with a very early pick next year. (Same idea though.)
I also had the Kings trading for Joakim Noah (I fantasy-traded Hawes for him sometime in the next year, but the more immediate Miller deal that TZ threw out there a few days ago works for me). Doesn’t have to be Noah… this was basically a symbolic shorthand way to say “let’s get some freakin’ rebounding and defense in the paint for gawd’s sake”. I’d kind of hoped the Josh Howard for Ron-Ron rumor might work out, but Greene plus an extra #1, plus the cap room saved is also a step in the right direction.
Then we bite the bullet and sign Bosh, (or Amare, sure that works), as you say.
That would almost certainly be a playoff team. How far they could go would obviously have everything to do with the development of Thompson, Greene, and the next three #1 picks Petrie has leading up to that season.
"When the going gets Weird, the Weird turn professional."
(Hunter Thompson)
by Mucho Moss on Aug 3, 2008 9:48 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks
For not staying locked in on Noah. In my opinion he’s everything he’ll ever be right now.
I couldn’t agree more with ‘"let’s get some freakin’ rebounding and defense in the paint for gawd’s sake" sentiment.
Hopefully one or both of new young big men will do some of that work. I also think SWilliams is not a dead issue. No, it doesn’t look like he’ll ever be a starter on a good team, but he could still be that tough guy/rebounder coming off the bench that everyone wants to spell thier starter(s).
[hey, you can hope] I’d like to see him get some real minutes early this year to find out.
I worry abot everyone projecting for guys in 2010 who are in thier primes Now, but maybe on the downslope in a year or so…
I’d (maybe) look at more defensive Lopez Bro. in a year or two or by trade (?).
eternal skeptical optimist
by lietothegirls on Aug 4, 2008 9:02 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think
that Bosh seems like a perfect fit, given what we know about his game and personality. Plus he will be 26 that year, which seems like the perfect age to get the bulk of his prime in a long-term deal. However, I fear that Beno isn’t a franchise PG and that the Kings might need to be in the market for one. Like you said, the PGs in this free agent class don’t seem too attractive. But expiring contracts and cheap up-and-comers are also lucrative trade bait, especially to teams looking to dump salary for the free agent feeding frenzy. As much as I’d love to bring in a guy like Bosh, I expect GP to pull something less straightforward.
by furious.d on Aug 1, 2008 5:46 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Great point Eduardo
I think the idea that you go into the summer of 2010 armed with cash is dumb. There’s a strong chance if Cleveland becomes a contender LeBron stays there. If not there, then perhaps in Brooklyn or at MSG. After that, it’s a good a guess as any where he could go. But LeBron will hold the market, and if he wants to re-sign in Cleveland, that means every team out there looks elsewhere. Which means that the market may become inflated to grab the remaining guys that a bunch of teams attempted to sign that year.
I think the Kings aren’t really aiming for that as the taking on of Greene, Thompson, Hawes, signing Udrih, and commitment to Martin suggest. There’s a greater chance the Kings think they have a core worth keeping and use that cash to add a supplementary free agent.
A lot of interesting thoughts Eduardo, but I don’t think anybody knows what Petrie’s plan is. That’s why you don’t see much speculation. Many of the StR regulars don’t really attempt to guess what Petrie thinks. (I know I do not, but having read comments by regulars would suggest this.) Well thought out, and definitely a rec’d fanpost.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
by pookeyguru on Aug 1, 2008 9:45 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Lot of miles on those legs...
The vast majority of this list will be fairly old, and even possibly past their prime in 2010. Wade and Lebron are two notable exceptions, but they’re not coming. I think what others have said about being in position to trade with some of the teams very eager to sign one of the above players makes a lot more sense than actually signing anyone from that list that would be willing to come to Sacramento.
I’m too lazy to do it myself, so this isn’t meant as a knock on your post, but I’d certainly like to see each players 2010 age attached to posts about who will be available.
by cabz on Aug 1, 2008 12:15 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Yep
I said similar stuff above before I scrolled down….
eternal skeptical optimist
by lietothegirls on Aug 4, 2008 9:03 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks for the recs all
As many of you have said, the interesting thing about the Summer of ‘10 is that the Kings may not be going for the big prize but rather for some complementary pieces that would fit the core that they are working on developing now. Like I said in the post I don’t mind the team being Beno/K-Mart/Greene/JT/Hawes as long as we see that team as a title contender 2 or 3 years down the road. This is why every time I think about this big free agent market I question whether the Kings would even take part in it. Remember that we still have K9, Mikki, and Brad’s (maybe even Salmon’s) contracts to deal for young prospects or picks to add to the rebuilding roster.
Cabz, I definitely seee your point in terms of age and that is yet another important point about this whole Summer of ‘10 mania. Aside from the young studs (Bron, Wade, Bosh, Amare, and a couple others) the other free agents will be considered old in NBA years and that’s why I don’t know how much of a player the Kings will be for a big name.
by eduardo_m7 on Aug 1, 2008 1:34 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
yeah i really think it all boils down to which one of our young bigs pan out. I would be interested in going after someone who would fit with the players we have, not just go after who has the biggest name.
I do however think that we shouldn’t rule LeBron James out for 2 reasons.
1. The mere fact that he could call himself “The Kings of Kings”
2. The Maloofs could really throw some serious money at him and incentives with their vegas hookups
It’s still a long shot though.
by GOKINGS on Aug 1, 2008 6:20 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Hmmmm
Maloofs with two rap videos that they guest starred in?
Or Hova, of many multi-platinum success?
Connections in the Hotel World? Or connections in Music, Fashion, Film, and living right in the center of modern media?
Sactown doesn’t stand a chance. Brons not moving for just the contract money. Bron is moving so that even more people can see his face and fall in love with it.
Now I can put my pink lace bra and panties back on. - Kfan in Korea
by iashwash on Aug 1, 2008 7:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't know who on that list I really want
outside of Bron Bron, Bosh and Amare. Bron aside, both Bosh and Amare have GMs who are smart enough to lock them up before this becomes an issue. CB4 should be the face of Canada, and in the Shaq trade Kerr basically anounced Amare was the heir apparent of Nash.
Though Yao Ming would certainly be interesting. Interesting to see what happens with that in the next two years, because he’s what? 27? Hmmm… idk. He’ll be nearly thirty and looking for a six year deal. No, no, that’s not really practical.
I think the Kings would be wiser to take advantage of teams trying to get at those players.
Now I can put my pink lace bra and panties back on. - Kfan in Korea
by iashwash on Aug 1, 2008 8:00 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
One thought
While the GMs might be smart enough to try to lock up these guys, there’s also the chance that if the team isn’t going to be where they want it to be that they’ll look elsewhere anyway (that’s my only real hope of landing a big name, btw).
Looking at Toronto, unless something big happens, they’ll probably still be relevant in the East . . . so I could easily see Bosh signing an extension there.
As for the Suns, however, they’ve got two aging superstars in Nash & Shaq . . . so Amare might want to jump ship instead of dealing with a rebuild when those guys need to be replaced. As odd as it sounds, I think Amare is the best chance the Kings have of getting a franchise guy through FA . . . but even then it’s still a longshot at best.
Every time I look at this I agree more and more that the Kings will either (a) get their guy through a trade, most likely with a team aiming for a big fish – as you said – or (b) over pay for a mid-range player to be the Robin to Kevin’s Batman. My biggest concern with (b) is the likelihood of “overpaying”, which with the number of teams setting themselves up for cap space in 2010 is very high.
by smgmatt on Aug 2, 2008 8:27 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I need to start scrolling down
as Smgmatt pretty much made the point I wanted to before I did.
Stoudamire is a possible target in my crystal ball of a PHX collapse.
eternal skeptical optimist
by lietothegirls on Aug 4, 2008 9:07 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
PHX is smart?
I haven’t seen any sign of it lately.
They could very well be in full re-build mode by then as well so I don’t know if Stoudamire is/will be untouchable, depends how it goes. (maybe by next year!)
eternal skeptical optimist
by lietothegirls on Aug 4, 2008 9:06 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
2010
I’d also keep in mind that our perceptions of any of these players could be drastically different two summer from now. Guys step up and become major stars, other drop of the face of the Earth due to injuries, scandals, etc (I could particularly see this being the case with a guy like Josh Howard; skills are there, but will he be able to hold it all together?)
I think the best part of the summer of 2010 is going to be that we basketball fans will not be lacking in news to satisfy our fix. I think we can go ahead and dub it the Summer of Speculation.
Never forget: I am a complete idiot
by Exhibit G on Aug 2, 2008 10:28 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
It's all about the pieces
Don’t forget our boy Vlade. for that matter, look at a team like the Jazz that managed to snatch away Boozer despite the fact that Salt Lake isn’t any more exciting than Sac. If you have enough money and the right pieces in place, you can bring on some suprising talent. At the same time that teams like Sac and POrtland are going to be coming on, a lot of other teams are going to be fading. I can definitely see a player leaving a team where is his surrounded by over-the-hill players to come to Sac. That’s why one of my earlier agruments was that it wouldn’t kill us if we didn’t get cap space in 2009. This give us an extra year and more picks to position ourselves and the up and coming team to go to.
"Being loquacious and being right aren't necessarily always the same."
GP, the man, the myth, the legend, puts the smackdown on Reggie
by SavageBeast on Aug 2, 2008 12:41 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
An idea...off-topic (sorry)
Since we have Houston’s first round pick next year, would it be possible to trade up in the lottery? I think the Kings will have around the 10th pick and if Artest doesn’t fare well with Houston, their pick could be in the 20 to 25 range. ...I think next year is the year we pick up Brendon Jennings or Ty Lawson.
by CloudyEyes on Aug 2, 2008 2:45 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
The nice thing about next years draft is that
we can take the best player regardless of position. We don’t have a glaring hole like in years past.
"Being loquacious and being right aren't necessarily always the same."
GP, the man, the myth, the legend, puts the smackdown on Reggie
by SavageBeast on Aug 2, 2008 5:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Interesting thought, but...
who would you rather have – JT and Donte or one player picked 3 thru 11 this year?
I’m sure the Kings could package both picks to move up, but it would most likely be a move of only a few spots. For that to be worthwhile, the draft pool would need to be fairly shallow (meaning it doesn’t look good 20-25) and they would need to be only a few spots outside of nabbing the Petrie really likes. Both are possibilities, but the ‘ifs’ really start to add up.
Also, since you mentioned Lawson specifically, the highest I’ve seen him in a mock is around 10th anyhow. He doesn’t strike me as the kind of guy you would try to move up to get if it cost very much, especially with the drop off to guys like Darren Collison not being very big (if there is one).
Brandon Jennings? Count me out – regardless of talent – he seems like a knucklehead. If a guy like Jrue Holiday is available though, or Rubio drops (he’s a euro, so Petrie would most likely be all over that), a late first may be worth the gamble.
by cabz on Aug 2, 2008 9:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rubio
Ricky Rubio won’t have to drop very far, I’m afraid, for the Kings to get a crack at him. With the way things are lining up we’re gonna have a lot of ping pong balls to play with in the 2009 Draft.
Once Miller is moved this is going to be a very young team that will struggle to find itself. I’m looking at a top 3 or 4 selection for the Kings.
"When the going gets Weird, the Weird turn professional."
(Hunter Thompson)
by Mucho Moss on Aug 3, 2008 9:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If Miller is moved, sure...
but if he plays most of the season, and we don’t have a horrible stretch of injuries, I could easily see us with around 35 wins. Where will that be in the lottery? My guess is not early enough for Rubio – probably in the 6 to 10 range.
Jrue Holiday though, that’s the guy we should be hoping for. Although, after he and Darren Collison annihilate every college backcourt this season, his stock may rise beyond our reach.
by cabz on Aug 4, 2008 9:34 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm on record
as saying we’re looking at a 30 win season, tops, cabz; and I don’t see any reason to think differently right now. Udrih, K-Mart, Salmons, Moore and Miller is one of the least formidable starting line-ups in the NBA, and I bet Brad will be gone before Xmas.
Losses can snowball when things turn sour and that season win total could easily erode to 20-25. That would definitely put us in the range of pretty much any player in the draft.
Without Artest this team has no starter who can play defense. Martin of course is a star and Udrih is a nice player too, but those guys are still pretty much sieves on D, and the front line gets pushed around routinely. Rebounding is also a big, big problem.
So until While Thompson, Hawes, Greene, etc. develop I’m afraid things are probably gonna get ugly in a hurry.
"When the going gets Weird, the Weird turn professional."
(Hunter Thompson)
by Mucho Moss on Aug 4, 2008 7:57 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Artest = 13-18 games?
I’ve seen Artest’s value listed at 8-10 games before on this site, but 13-18 is a whole ‘nother story.
Without Artest this team has no starter who can play defense.
Wasn’t Salmons the second best defensive player on last year’s (38-win) team? If you replace your best defensive player with your second best defensive player, you drop almost 20 games ? To put this into perspective, that’s HALF of them!
Barring any further moves (or injuries, of which there were plenty on last year’s 38-win squad), I just don’t see a drop-off like that . . . but that’s why they play the games!
by smgmatt on Aug 5, 2008 6:37 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I just don't see
How you can think 20-25 wins without something Very bad happening.
I know many here are victims of the ‘grass is greener’ disease and think nearly every player on every other team is better than what we have. (‘Ooooh, Noah’ is one problem I have but there are many examples) Other teams’ players being overrated while ours underrated is a common problem when your team is struggling.
‘If we only had that guy!’
With a healthy line-up (pray to God) I don’t see that we’re not in the same win range as last year give or take a few wins. SHawes will be better, Beno will be more comfortable, Salmons will be ‘the guy’ which may motivate him to no end.
Our major Rookie, JThompson, is an older guy. a Man. I expect him to start playing pretty well after a month or so. BobbyJ will give reliable minutes at back-up PG, something we didn’t have until Cisco actually got pretty respectable towards the end of the season last year.
I know everyone would love a 1-3 draft pick – but I’m afraid that will require just about the same luck as before.
With possible collapses (due to age,makeup and injury) of one or more of Dallas, SA and PHX, I’m calling that we’re in the 9-11 seed range and no worse.
eternal skeptical optimist
by lietothegirls on Aug 5, 2008 8:41 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Believe me,
it goes against my nature to be pessimistic.
But I just see a big potential for the losses to start snowballing. I look at the line-up and ask myself “where the hell do the Kings have an advantage?” Only with Martin at the two. He’s a top 20 talent but he can’t do it all, not to mention he’s a poor defender.
Sure, Miller can do some very good things but he needs confident, experienced players around him to utilize his passing skills and get open shots. He might keep things somewhat respectable on offense but he’s also a liability on D. In any case, like I said, if things go well for us in the rebuilding process he’ll be outta Sacramento by Xmas.
After those two guys it gets real dodgy. Salmons is a decent defender and a good guy to have off the bench… too bad he thinks he needs to start. His chemistry with Theus is pretty crappy and with Martin it’s not much better.
Udrih is being asked to quarterback a team for a full season, which is something he’s never done before. To me he’s a fair to decent starting point guard, (or a very good back-up point), but again, no defense from that position.
Mikki Moore. Cool guy, great attitude, but not an NBA starter by any stretch of the imagination.
Thompson may be a man at 23, but in the NBA he’ll be a kid. It’s a huge leap from Ryder to an 82 game schedule against the greatest players in the world. He seems to have talent and I’m sure he’ll show some flashes, but he’s gonna get schooled often.
I’m not a big Hawes fan, but even if I was it’s clear that at best he’ll maybe come close to Miller’s numbers after Brad is traded.
I love Bobby Jax but he is just about done, IMO.
Cisco is great, maybe my favorite player on the team, but he’s another role player type.
Again, hope I’m wrong, but I think the talent on this team is mostly either a year or two away from blooming or on the bench. And when things go south on an NBA team losing often tends to reinforce more losing.
"When the going gets Weird, the Weird turn professional."
(Hunter Thompson)
by Mucho Moss on Aug 5, 2008 10:42 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Good, honest post
You nailed it.
by coolcatreportdotcom on Aug 6, 2008 12:25 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Mucho Gusto, Mucho Moss
The starting lineup missed over 110 games last year. I’m betting that you could have probably counted the times that Miller/Moore/Artest/Martin/Bibby started together on one or two hands. The only prayer for a better record than last year is better health, and even that may not be enough.
Rec’d.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
by section214 on Aug 6, 2008 7:49 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
A better record?
Wait, I’m confused . . . which side of this discussion are you on?
There’s a world of difference in talking about getting more wins than last year, and getting half the wins from last year.
Your argument backs up the fact that the team shouldn’t fall off the face of the Earth, while Mucho is saying that it will. I’ll say, for the record, that neither would surprise me . . . I’m just trying to parse through the reasoning for both.
0-10 Win Drop:- #1 defender replaced with #2 defender (slight decrease)
- More games played by starting lineup (increase)
- More ball movement (slight increase)
- Less post presence? (slight decrease)
- Top 2 player from last year’s team gone (decrease)
- Miller/Moore(/Salmons?) traded before the deadline (decrease)
- Repeat of Injuries to starting lineup (even)
- Losing begets losing (decrease)
It seems to me that a lot of things have to go wrong for the Kings to drop half of their win total from last season, almost as many things as would have to go right for them to surpass said win total.
To me, the most likely scenario is that they lose 8-10 more games than last year, with a plus/minus of 5 games due to other circumstances (injuries, trades, streaks, etc).
This is no daring prediction by any stretch of the imagination (3-15 game difference isn’t much of a “prediction”), but it’s probably the most realistic (from what we know right now, anyway).
by smgmatt on Aug 6, 2008 8:16 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was responding to MM's most recent post
and in my response I mentioned that they would need good health to have a chance to surpass last year’s record. I didn’t think that was too controversial. I was not responding to his earlier comments. You see, I would have responded to his earlier comments where his earlier comments were made had I wanted to respond to his earlier comments…but I digress.
To be clear, I applaude MM for his spot on reasoning in his and his ability to make his point without having to crap all over an alternative opinion.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
by section214 on Aug 6, 2008 8:30 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Heeeeeey, wait a second
Was that a thickly veiled shot at me* . . . or am I just reading things that you’re writing in response to things that were said before responses were made in reply to the things that were said?
Wait, what were we talking about again?
*I apologize if I have crapped on anyone’s opinion, for that was not my intent at all.
by smgmatt on Aug 6, 2008 8:40 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't know, smgmatt
This all occured before morning coffee.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
by section214 on Aug 6, 2008 12:32 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
well, I admit math
was never my best subject, but I don’t think I said the Kings would get half as many wins. They won 38 last year. Half of that is 19.
What I said (and this was In response to what I consider to be a lot of post-draft, Summer League over-optimism around here) was that the Kings would win 30 games, tops this season. Obviously, that’s not really going out on a limb.
I also think it’s fairly possible things could go downhill further if they fall out of playoff contention quickly and Miller is traded. Both of those scenarios seem very possible and to me, and that means they probably slip into the 25 win range.
As you point out matt, losing begats more losing, and it seems to me that a young team that isn’t very good on defense and has no real leader on the floor could be especially prone to this pattern. So if things totally disintegrate (a less likely scenario, but unfortunately not unthinkable) we could be looking at 20 wins.
In other words I’m projecting pretty much the same kind of season you are, matt; i.e. the likelihood of a fairly significant step backwards in terms of win-loss record. I’m not predicting the Kings will “fall off the face of the earth”, but like you I’m pointing out that it could happen.
"When the going gets Weird, the Weird turn professional."
(Hunter Thompson)
by Mucho Moss on Aug 6, 2008 12:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah
I’m with you on the 30 wins projection in general. We’ll have to see how things fall into place to know if it’ll be higher or lower than that, but I feel that’s a pretty fair baseline to start with.
The “half” that I mentioned was the low-end of your 20-25 wins comment:
Losses can snowball when things turn sour and that season win total could easily erode to 20-25.
I think that we agree in general, but I don’t think that it would be so easy to fall to 20 wins if the only major difference is Artest for Salmons in the starting lineup.
Again, I’m not saying 20 wins is impossible, just not very likely. At this point I’d say 20 wins is no more/less likely than 38 . . . they’re just at opposite ends of the spectrum.
by smgmatt on Aug 6, 2008 12:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hmmmm interesting points all aruond
So let me throw my 2 cents in this one. I don’t think this team is 20 games bad. Martin, Udrih, Miller and Artest all missed significant time on a 38 win team. Only Artest is gone from that group. The Kings have an actual backup in Bobby, or Bobby, they trust more than whomever held that role last season. (I”m not really sure whom that would fit, but I don’t think Douby or Udrih exactly qualifies.)
In otherwords, I don’t think this Kings team is in as much transistion as it was a year ago with Bibby having been traded by the deadline (and not spending much time on the active roster overall for the KIngs), and Artest now being moved to the Rockets. With so much more potential and continuity, there is a likelihood that this team will improve if health (a strong, strong, strong if) is maintained during the course of the season. The only reason this season is derailed is if Udrih, a possibility, misses at least 15-30 games.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
by pookeyguru on Aug 6, 2008 1:05 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
What was the Kings record?
With Artest and without Artest?
Anyone know?
eternal skeptical optimist
by lietothegirls on Aug 6, 2008 3:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Coolcat has posted it a few times
close to .500 with, quite a bit below without. Though many of the games without Artest were also without Kevin. So I don’t think it really sheds much light on the discussion.
Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott
by Kfan in Korea on Aug 6, 2008 4:04 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
And the first 7 w/o Beno or Bibby
eternal skeptical optimist
by lietothegirls on Aug 6, 2008 4:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Anyway
I agree with Pook as I’ve said earlier or on a different string. I just don’t see the record changing much barring another run of injuries.
eternal skeptical optimist
by lietothegirls on Aug 6, 2008 4:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'll take the Over
I’ll take the over on the 30 win projection. Lack of nightclubs resulting in the angst other teams have showing up in Sacramento, plus a team that likely will be more fun to root for and a louder Arco means I can’t see the Kings going less than 20-21 at home. So 11-30 on the road? I’ll take my chances we’ll get at least 31 wins next year.
by ForThree on Aug 7, 2008 10:21 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
"#1 defender replaced with #2 defender (slight decrease)"
I guess Salmons never played in the same lineup as Artest. Right?
So let’s say Salmons is slightly worse on defense than Artest (and that’s a big stretch). So when they play together, they must put together a pretty good defensive presence, right?
And so when one of only 2-3 decent defenders on the team – and one who may be one of the top 10 defensive small forwards of all time – is suddenly not around, do you really thing there will only be a “slight decrease” in the toughness of the Kings defense? Really?
by coolcatreportdotcom on Aug 6, 2008 9:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Can’t we just offer LeBron governor of California?
by Shizzo on Aug 3, 2008 12:59 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Draft 2009
Yeah, why don’t we see (per Exhibit G) What the hell all the young guys we just added, Thompson, Green – and I think BobbyB (for some reason he smells like a Petrie found Gnugget) before we worry about what we need for next years draft?
With two #1s and some expiring contarcts there might be a lot of possibilities….
eternal skeptical optimist
by lietothegirls on Aug 4, 2008 9:17 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Amare is damaged goods
Were it up to me, I’d stay far, far away from signing Amare Stoudamire. Though he’s mostly come back from his multiple knee surgeries, nothing he does will ever A) make his knees have the stability/strength they had before injury and B) keep them from starting to slowly wear down further.
I’m 26 years old and have had complete ACL reconstructions on both knees from injuries sustained playing basketball, so I have first hand experience with knee issues. No matter how hard you rehab, no matter what exercises you do, your knees never feel the same as they did before you had a major injury and the subsequent surgery.
It doesn’t get mentioned much, but a big reason for Michael Jordan’s lowered level of performance when he came back with the Wizards was the fact that he was suffering from tendinitis in his knees. Seeing as how Amare has had far more serious knee injuries than Jordan ever did, and at a much younger age, I would not be surprised if Amare started developing lingering, difficult to treat problems with his knees at a very early age, possibly even within the next 3-4 years.
Out of all of the players listed, I’d have to say that Chris Bosh would make the most sense to add to the Kings. He doesn’t appear to have the disdain for smaller markets that Lebron and possibly Wade have, and I just have a feeling that he won’t be interested in staying in Toronto. Hopefully by 2010 (I’m looking at you Theus), Hawes and JT will have gotten enough playing time for us to have a pretty good idea what types of players they are, and I seriously doubt that BOTH of them will turn out to be as good, or better, of a player than Bosh is.
Who knows though? 2 years is a long time. If I had told you 2 years that the Celtics would be world champs, you’d have laughed in my face. As fun as playing imaginary Petrie is, there are so many thousands of variables to play out that it’s probably impossible to have a rock-solid plan in place for 2010. I have a feeling that when it is all said and done, a lot of franchises are going to be disappointed they stockpiled cap space when 90% of these FAs get extended and the remaining sign with the big market teams.
by rsheldon7 on Aug 5, 2008 10:52 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
hmmm
I think I said earlier that next year is the time to start looking around. I’m more in the strain of getting that stud just as he comes off his rookie contract and is on the upside.
Just mentioning Stoudamire as he is a lot younger than others that might be available that have been mentioned. I see your point on the knees – but he’s a stud right now….
eternal skeptical optimist
by lietothegirls on Aug 6, 2008 5:00 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
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