You know, if you have a big shade tree, shade's good to a point. But if there's too much shade,...

You know, if you have a big shade tree, shade's good to a point. But if there's too much shade, then the grass doesn't get to grow.

I love it when Geoff Petrie gets philosophical.

4 months ago Ziller Comment 67 comments 0 recs |

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Wait wait... what?

So we’re growing grass now Petrie? Is that really a good idea in light of Brad’s suspension?

Kevin Martin, line 1 holding for you. Your destiny is calling. - Section214

by vfettke on Aug 15, 2008 5:45 AM PDT 2 recs

Given the decline in season ticket holders growing sod in the empty parking lot may be a better use of the space.

by BrooklynFan on Aug 15, 2008 6:22 AM PDT 0 recs

I feel the same way

I also love the smell of napalm in the morning.

Smells like…25-30 victories.

Rebuild, rebuild rebuild, I can wait.

Rocks are free, and slingshots easily stolen.

by andy sims on Aug 15, 2008 8:19 AM PDT 0 recs

Houston's draft pick

Lottery protected? Not that it is likely but what happens if it does? Do the Kings get it the year after? Or the year after? Or the ….

by KingsFan on Aug 15, 2008 8:32 AM PDT 0 recs

brad is shady

but then again he has also been known to enjoy watching the grass grow.
hmmm.

by furious.d on Aug 15, 2008 9:50 AM PDT 0 recs

You ever look at the grass?

You ever look at the grass….on weed?

More of this brand of hilariosu insight can be found at vegaskings.blogspot.com and now reclaimingthetitle.blogspot.com

by Muff209 on Aug 15, 2008 10:31 AM PDT up 0 recs

Red Team Go!

by smgmatt on Aug 15, 2008 10:37 AM PDT up 0 recs

Time to trade Miller

The article the quote mentions a continuation of rebuilding. Why waste time and trade Miller’s albatross contract if it can get us an expiring one and a young prospect.

Is Cleveland interested?

BOOK IT!

by kingme18 on Aug 15, 2008 10:35 AM PDT 0 recs

As much as I love Shawes...

I think he still needs Miller there as a safety net of sorts. That and there’s a lot of stuff Miller can still teach Spencer. Like how to roll one of those wicked cross joints.

More of this brand of hilariosu insight can be found at vegaskings.blogspot.com and now reclaimingthetitle.blogspot.com

by Muff209 on Aug 15, 2008 10:56 AM PDT up 0 recs

Why do we need a safety net?

Miller is old, on the downside of his career, its time for the old man TO GO.

We shipped Bibby out when Beno was an unproven point guard, we dealt Ron and got back an inexperienced Salmons.

I understand if there are no tangible offers retaining Miller, Moore makes little sense. Why stall?

Take action and get the B-52 bomber outta here.

BOOK IT!

by kingme18 on Aug 15, 2008 10:59 AM PDT up 0 recs

Greene not Salmons. Salmons hasn’t exactly proven he merits to be a starter.

BOOK IT!

by kingme18 on Aug 15, 2008 11:01 AM PDT up 0 recs

Ummm....

Last year, start of the season Artest not playing. Any of that ring a bell?

More of this brand of hilariosu insight can be found at vegaskings.blogspot.com and now reclaimingthetitle.blogspot.com

by Muff209 on Aug 15, 2008 11:02 AM PDT up 0 recs

Salmons was productive but I see Salmons as a sixth man not as a starter in the future for the Kings assuming they think this core can win them a championship down the line with the addition of a couple of other pieces.

BOOK IT!

by kingme18 on Aug 15, 2008 11:04 AM PDT up 0 recs

Because he helped so much more as a 6th man this year than as a starter.

More of this brand of hilariosu insight can be found at vegaskings.blogspot.com and now reclaimingthetitle.blogspot.com

by Muff209 on Aug 15, 2008 11:16 AM PDT up 0 recs

Oops, I meant last year

More of this brand of hilariosu insight can be found at vegaskings.blogspot.com and now reclaimingthetitle.blogspot.com

by Muff209 on Aug 15, 2008 11:16 AM PDT up 0 recs

No kidding. Let's not forget Mopey Salmons coming off the bench last season

by BrooklynFan on Aug 15, 2008 12:01 PM PDT up 0 recs

Mopey with his horrible chin boobs goatie.

Hot dogs, get your hot dogs.

by jjham15 on Aug 15, 2008 12:59 PM PDT up 0 recs

Chin boobs?

He should be gotten rid of for that! Those chin boobs may distract Martin while he takes his free throws. ;)

by KingsFan on Aug 15, 2008 1:15 PM PDT up 0 recs

You might as well deal Salmons now

Did you see his splits as a starter versus reserve last year? The guy does not have the mental makeup to be a reserve. Who knows why certain guys have to start or come in off the bench, but Salmons is the poster boy for it.

Kevin Pritchard has Chuck Norris tied up in the trunk of his car.

by otis29 on Aug 15, 2008 12:41 PM PDT up 0 recs

And just to add

I’ve been in favor of dealing Salmons either way, but preferably after a nice stretch of success this year as a starter. But no way he should be a reserve on this team.

Kevin Pritchard has Chuck Norris tied up in the trunk of his car.

by otis29 on Aug 15, 2008 12:42 PM PDT up 0 recs

Agreed

I think Salmon’s is selfish.

by BrooklynFan on Aug 15, 2008 12:53 PM PDT up 0 recs

Disagreed

How about we see what happens this year before flogging the guy. I like Salmons.

by KingsFan on Aug 15, 2008 1:23 PM PDT up 0 recs

I'm not really flogging him

And I like Salmons as well – I just have reservations of him being a long-term part of the team.

The difference between his starter/reserve minutes was not minor, they were night and day. The guy was clearly in his own head about his minutes – is that the kind of guy you want playing major minutes when you’re finally contending for a playoff spot, or during a playoff run? Is he Peja 2.0, only not as talented?

I’d rather Petrie deal him while his value is high than wait to see if he implodes under the pressure of a playoff run. So I’m rooting for him to play well this year, so we can get decent value back for him down the road.

Kevin Pritchard has Chuck Norris tied up in the trunk of his car.

by otis29 on Aug 15, 2008 1:31 PM PDT up 0 recs

About that bell ...

The Kings were 15-26 in games Salmon started. Any of that ring a bell?

by coolcatreportdotcom on Aug 15, 2008 10:02 PM PDT up 0 recs

The same bell

that included no Mike Bibby or Beno? That bell? Yah, that bell sucked, but Salmons didn’t.

Wait....Why is everybody clapping? Everyone around me is clapping.... I guess I should be clapping too... GO LAKERS!!! I hate living in So Cal

by 27freethrows on Aug 15, 2008 10:43 PM PDT up 0 recs

Salmons

Started 41 games last year, during which he averaged about 18 pts. on 50% field, 39% from three, 81% line, and chipped in 5 boards, 4 assists and 2 steals. And he makes only $5.1 million this year.

I’m with otis. As a starter he will increase his value, and he is an easy move with his contract. Give him to the deadline, perhaps the entire season and then deal him

SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Aug 15, 2008 11:04 PM PDT up 0 recs

That bell

by eduardo_m7 on Aug 16, 2008 1:43 AM PDT up 0 recs

I never understood this mentality

So Salmons is a good deal for the Kings so he must be dealt away?
Is it that any player the Kings have that is better than their contract must be traded until we’re stuck with a team full of K9 contracts and nobody wants to deal with us?

Kind of reminds me of how Las Vegas casinos get rich. They know people can’t stand to have money in their pockets.

by KingsFan on Aug 16, 2008 12:26 PM PDT up 0 recs

I think that

it’s more a thought of where Salmons will be in his career as this franchise turns the corner. He turns 29 in December, and he has the option of terminating his contract in 2010. From a timing standpoint, he really isn’t the future. Therefore, he may bring more pieces via trade that can help the franchise in the long run.

Put another way, if Garcia gets extended and Greene develops (not to mention Jason Thompson, who may have some SF skills), Salmons’ talent becomes redundant to the franchise. That’s why I think that pumping his value up and dealing him is the right move. I certainly do not feel the same way about Kevin Martin, for example, or any of the youngsters that may be instrumental in the next great Kings run.

SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Aug 16, 2008 12:57 PM PDT up 0 recs

I hear you

I guess it all hinges on how the young guns turn out. But how hard is it to time all your aquisisions so they all mature at the same time? It may be easier to make a run mixing some vets in with some young stars. If you continually deal your older prospects you may end up always looking to the future and never realizing the goal.

by KingsFan on Aug 16, 2008 1:08 PM PDT up 0 recs

Very true

SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Aug 16, 2008 2:49 PM PDT up 0 recs

The Facts

Salmons in 41 starts last season:

Kings Overall: 15-26.
When Bibby or Beno started: Kings 12-18.
When neither Bibby or Beno started: Kings 3-8.

Beno and Bobby combined to start 63 games, including 30 of the 41 games Salmons started. The numbers:

Bibby starts: Kings 6-6.
Beno starts: Kings 24-27.
Neither started: 8-11.

Kings with Salmons starting and Beno or Bibby starting: 12-18.
Kings with Salmons not starting and Beno and Bibby starting: 18-15.

It seems like Salmons needed Bibby and Beno starting more than the Kings needed Salmons starting.

by coolcatreportdotcom on Aug 16, 2008 4:44 PM PDT up 0 recs

What are Kevin's numbers with Salmons in game v. not in the game?

by BrooklynFan on Aug 16, 2008 5:28 PM PDT up 0 recs

If you really hard core

You could probably compare the different lineups at 82games.com.

by coolcatreportdotcom on Aug 16, 2008 8:13 PM PDT up 0 recs

Oh, and Greene has?

Greene is as green as it gets!

by KingsFan on Aug 15, 2008 11:53 AM PDT up 0 recs

Then you should understand

Because I can guarantee there’s no tangible offers for Brad Miller. Unless Isaiah Thomas and Billy King decide they want to start an expansion franchise.

More of this brand of hilariosu insight can be found at vegaskings.blogspot.com and now reclaimingthetitle.blogspot.com

by Muff209 on Aug 15, 2008 11:02 AM PDT up 0 recs

or had a love child.

Hot dogs, get your hot dogs.

by jjham15 on Aug 15, 2008 1:00 PM PDT up 0 recs

Beno

The comparison of Bibby/Beno to Miller/Hawes isn’t a good one. First, Beno was starting for a good part of the season before Bibby came back from injury, and he was playing well (better than Bibby). Secondly, Miller is coming off of a pretty good season and Hawes hasn’t shown that he can be counted on to play 30 minutes+ per game without an enormous drop-off in production – as compared to MIller (like Beno had shown).

Also, Miller only has one year left on his deal. He isn’t exactly weighting down our options for the future, and given that he’s a former all-star who is still productive, we should be able to get decent to good value for him as an expiring (or close to expiring) contract. I don’t mind trading Miller at the deadline if it looks like Hawes/JT/Shelden can take on the load and we get good value in return, but I’m certainly not in favor of a plan to dump Miller just to dump him.

by cabz on Aug 15, 2008 11:59 AM PDT up 0 recs

Good Points

Also, to stay healthy Miller needs reduced playing time. Hawes needs more PT to develop. A fifty-fifty split might be in both players interest. If Hawes gets a little more playing time he might even get comfortable enough to be convinced that passing is a useful skill thus Miller can assume the wise veteran role (a stroke to his ego no doubt) then next year Miller becomes not only an expiring contract but one of those vets that can come off the bench and lead a group of youngsters in the absence of a decent back-up point guard.. So I think a Miller trade is the least of our worries this year even if he is the highest paid player on the team.

Don’t get me wrong, I wouldn’t miss Whiney Brad for one minute and I’ve done my fair share of calling for the Miller trade. But I must confess most of my inspiration comes from the fact that there’s nothing to be done about the PF mess, No one wants a K9 due to be delivered to the glue factory. Calling for a Shareef medical retirement is just bad taste. We all liek Mikki and when Petrie finally tells Reggie it’s time for the next generation to take over, will make for a wonderful cheerleader (granted a very well paid cheerleader); so in lieu of feeling completely hopeless I react by thinking of all of the other things that the Kings could do to improve their suituation I think of age and money and suddenly all the worst aspects of Brad Miller become highlighted. But, really, it’s jut because there’s only so many Poodle jokes to tell before we’re just beating a dead dog.

by BrooklynFan on Aug 15, 2008 12:32 PM PDT up 0 recs

The teams has other priorities

Shelden Williams, Jason Thompson and Spencer Hawes are a trio of big man I’d like to see developed properly with PT.

BOOK IT!

by kingme18 on Aug 15, 2008 11:02 AM PDT up 0 recs

Shelden Williams as a priority?

Warn me before you say stuff like that I almost spit lemonade all over my keyboard.

More of this brand of hilariosu insight can be found at vegaskings.blogspot.com and now reclaimingthetitle.blogspot.com

by Muff209 on Aug 15, 2008 11:03 AM PDT up 0 recs

What the hell are the Kings doing if they aren’t developing younger players?

BOOK IT!

by kingme18 on Aug 15, 2008 11:06 AM PDT up 0 recs

While trying to win as many games as possible

BOOK IT!

by kingme18 on Aug 15, 2008 11:06 AM PDT up 0 recs

I'm all for developing younger players

What I’m saying is don’t be too hasty to trade Brad, because he can help with that.

More of this brand of hilariosu insight can be found at vegaskings.blogspot.com and now reclaimingthetitle.blogspot.com

by Muff209 on Aug 15, 2008 11:15 AM PDT up 0 recs

And...

we can get better value if we aren’t in a panic to move him. An expiring Brad is more attractive than a recently suspended Brad. Just simmer down, be patient, and Brad will eventually be moved when the time is right. That time is not now.

by cabz on Aug 15, 2008 12:02 PM PDT up 0 recs

I'm not for

Dumping Miller just to dump Miller, let’s get that point cleared first.

I think with the direction of this team, we should be actively pursuing offers for Miller but if we can get an offer like the one we got for Bibby or Artest, you take the offer and develop your young players.

My point is why keep Miller if u aren’t going to keep Bibby or Artest and you’ve been committed to rebuilding?

BOOK IT!

by kingme18 on Aug 15, 2008 3:19 PM PDT up 0 recs

Fair enough...

but I still believe that Miller is more attractive for teams at the trade deadline, because at that point he’s fairly low risk (close to an expirer) and someone could conceivably think he’s the missing piece they need. I’m all for waiting it out until at least the trade deadline, or until next season when he’s an expiring contract, if it will bring more in return.

I did not feel the same way about Bibby, who Beno was outplaying at the time and didn’t have much to offer in terms of tutoring our young players, or Artest, for obvious reasons.

If we trade Brad at any point and receive what we did for Artest, I will be ecstatic. I think that realistically, we may be able to get close to the same value as we did with Artest if a) someone get’s desperate this year or b) we wait until next year. If, however, a deal close to the Bibby deal comes along, I’m not interested. I would rather hang onto Brad and let him tutor the young guys than see a swap of expiring contracts and an early first-round bust (which is how Atlanta felt about Shelden, and they may be right) just to speed up the rebuilding process.

by cabz on Aug 15, 2008 6:08 PM PDT up 0 recs

I agree

Beno was ready to start, Salmons is capable of starting. I don’t think Hawes is ready to start just yet. He’s still only 20 and he needs more strength and bulk. Let’s give him some more time to develop, unless a great offer for Miller comes along. Like Miller for Gooden, Noah and Thomas. :)

Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott

by Kfan in Korea on Aug 15, 2008 6:16 PM PDT up 0 recs

Can't we throw Kenny Thomas into that deal too?

More of this brand of hilariosu insight can be found at vegaskings.blogspot.com and now reclaimingthetitle.blogspot.com

by Muff209 on Aug 15, 2008 8:13 PM PDT up 0 recs

Could

but we’d probably have to take back Nocioni. ;p

Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott

by Kfan in Korea on Aug 15, 2008 8:58 PM PDT up 0 recs

In Petrie's Mind

maybe, while Brad is a much taller tree than either Artest or Bibby, Petrie sees no leaves on Brad’s branches.

by BrooklynFan on Aug 16, 2008 7:33 AM PDT up 0 recs

Whether

Shelden can be developed into a reliable big man is for another day.

BOOK IT!

by kingme18 on Aug 15, 2008 11:07 AM PDT up 0 recs

Dont

Put words in my mouth.

BOOK IT!

by kingme18 on Aug 15, 2008 11:08 AM PDT up 0 recs

You said...

The Kings have other priorities in the header, then the first words in the body were Shelden Williams. Plus isn’t it technically words in your post/keyboard?

All I’m saying is that it’s the only priority with Shelden is to find out what he can do before the end of the year. From what we’ve seen, it’s not much with half a flash of “Wait, we can block shots and rebound?” sprinkled in there every other game.

More of this brand of hilariosu insight can be found at vegaskings.blogspot.com and now reclaimingthetitle.blogspot.com

by Muff209 on Aug 15, 2008 11:14 AM PDT up 0 recs

I'm not sure about Shelden

I think the guy is already at the point in his career that he’s going to have to earn his minutes by just flat playing better. JT and Hawes need the court time to deduce their potential to the future of this franchise.

If Shelden comes out and kicks ass, he’s gonna get minutes. He’s not exactly a small sample size guy anymore though.

Kevin Pritchard has Chuck Norris tied up in the trunk of his car.

by otis29 on Aug 15, 2008 12:44 PM PDT up 0 recs

cold dose of reality

Marty Burns at SI just posted his western conference predictions:

12. Kings: The loss of Artest signals they are (wisely) thinking of the future. Bobby Jackson might not be as talented as Artest, but he’s a decent backup and a more stable presence in the locker room. President Geoff Petrie also re-signed point guard Beno Udrih, one of their few bright spots from a year ago. Along with Kevin Martin, Francisco Garcia, Spencer Hawes and John Salmons, in addition to 2008 first-round pick Jason Thompson, the Kings have put together a young nucleus that as it develops will get them back in the playoff race.

by longtimelistenerfirsttimecaller on Aug 15, 2008 2:13 PM PDT 0 recs

He ranks the Rockets #2

Here’s the link

Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott

by Kfan in Korea on Aug 15, 2008 2:52 PM PDT up 0 recs

Grass also doesn't grow well when dogs are urinating on it...

does that mean there’s hope he’ll find another home for K9?

by cabz on Aug 15, 2008 3:15 PM PDT 0 recs

ROFL

I’d settle for waiving him at this point and hopefully Shareef medically retires.

BOOK IT!

by kingme18 on Aug 15, 2008 3:21 PM PDT up 0 recs

No

Don’t waive him. Just keep him on the inactive list. Next year his expiring contract will have some value. Waiving him would gain us nothing.

Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott

by Kfan in Korea on Aug 15, 2008 3:25 PM PDT up 0 recs

Hmmm...

I’m not sure I agree. Players who are washed up are of little value, even as expiring contracts. Sure, as an expiring contract a useful player like Brad/Camby/etc. might be able to net a decent return (and even that is hit or miss), I think K9’s only potential value is as a trade filler – as in, we package him with young players/draft picks (who would be the real value to the other team) to go after someone with a large contract, or to take on a crappy contract and swap young players/draft picks. With other expiring options on the roster, I’d like to see K9 gone as soon as possible.

by cabz on Aug 15, 2008 6:14 PM PDT up 0 recs

Kwame Brown

I think K9’s only potential value is as a trade filler – as in, we package him with young players/draft picks (who would be the real value to the other team) to go after someone with a large contract

That’s some value. Also maybe a team is just over the luxury tax and would trade expiring contracts where we take back an extra million or so and for doing this favor they send along a pick. He is also another body for practice. There are many options if we hold on to him, but none if we waive him. And waiving him gains us nothing.

It’s not like we hear about him being a cancer on the team, so I don’t see any benefit in waiving him.

Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott

by Kfan in Korea on Aug 15, 2008 6:25 PM PDT up 0 recs