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Pargo to Moscow. This international thing definitely changes the landscape when it comes to guessing where mid-range free agents will land. We only considered other NBA teams as competition for the services of the free agent PG's this year, and now Arroyo, Boykins and Pargo have all gone overseas. Interesting times.

about 1 year ago Joe_kleine_tiny section214 31 comments 0 recs  | 

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but

Pargo signed with the second best team in Russia for 1/10th of Beno’s cost. Unless Janero is a cold weather guy, or really wanted to play with the great Bostjan Nachbar, methinks we could have had him on the cheap.

by furious.d on Aug 16, 2008 8:59 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

True

My point was that down the stretch of last season and during the off season we only looked at other NBA outposts as potential destinations for Udrih and other free agent PG’s. This intrepid reporter incorrectly predicted that Carlos Arroyo would don the Kings purple and black. But the interesting thing to note is that 25% of the free agents listed went overseas (the three listed above and Dan Dickau). While the thought was that these guys could all be had “on the cheap,” they all apparently found better offers in Europe. And the thinning of the pool has an economical impact on the rest of the available players, even if you are just draining the shallow end. It’s supply and demand. Does Andre Iguodala deserve that much more money than Kevin Martin? No, but in between those two contracts Josh Childress happened.

With every one of these point guard defections, the Udrih deal looks smarter and smarter. And I say this as one of the people that did not want to pay him for five years. There is a fox in the hen house (Europe), and while the fox is only stealing the smaller eggs, it is impacting the overall egg supply and driving prices up.

SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Aug 16, 2008 9:14 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

true valu

beno will be the best backu pg in the league after the kings draft rubio next draft. Then you will have the squad: Rubio, Martin, Greene, Thompson and Hawes. Run and Gun baby

by monkeyklawz on Aug 16, 2008 4:29 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I have been watching Rubio

here in Beijing. I saw him play against Greece in the first game and then against Germany a few days later. He is still very young and looks young, but his potential is huge. I didn’t catch the USA game, but watched his previous three, the last one against China on tv, and he improved every game while the coaches obviously got more and more confidence in him every game. The fact that he is competing against these top level NBA and euroleague players and holding his own is pretty encouraging.
  His defense looked horrible against Greece as he was gambling way too much and as a result getting beat almost everytime by the much quicker Greek point guard (forget his name but played briefly for the Rockets). Against China and Germany he stayed at home much more and looked better. He reminds me somewhat of Jason Williams in the sense of his size and weak defending. He doesn’t seem as crazy offensively but plays loose and relaxed like J Will used to.
  Overall, I would be PUMPED if the Kings drafted him, although he is 2-3 years away from starting in the NBA but would be a more than serviceable backup to Beno for years 1-2. Plus, he still has one more year to play so who knows.

by Travis Mays Hayes on Aug 17, 2008 7:22 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Defense

He aims to play a ‘total’ defense. Here is a nice analysis (I think TZ has posted it somewhere here already) how Rubio might be the difference-maker in the defense that Steve Nash is in the offense. He plays very risky and although his lateral quickness is not perfect (though slightly underrated and his body is still developing), his legs are strong and he reads the opponents very well . It is true that more experienced players such as Spanoulis or Chris Paul overplayed him (although in the match against Greece it might be due to his first match), but exactly, he is 17…
In the season before the last, the kid led all players in the Euroleague in steals with 3.2 while playing less than 19 minutes and being just 16 years old (15 at the beginning of the season). He is immature, but pretty much focused with a very good surrounding of adults around him. He might not be a franchise player, but he will be good.

by KingsFanfromCentralEurope on Aug 18, 2008 5:19 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

After Taxes

NBA players pay taxes in every state they play in, a 7 million dollar contract is usually worth 3.5-4 million after taxes. Is pargo playing on the cheap? it would be about a 6-7 million dollar contract in the states.

Hang Time
Running together
Putting it on the line

Hang Time
Jammin forever
taking it up for hang time...

by passionforPERPS on Aug 16, 2008 10:22 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

God help us if the International House of Pancakes catches on to this

As far as the taxes are concerned, I can’t claim to know much (although I would assume that Russia and other European countries tax foreigners entering their economy and making millions too). And section is certainly correct to suggest that Beno probably would’ve been able to demand more money by using European offers against us if negotiations had dragged on. Even so, I still feel that five years at the full MLE was too much to commit to Beno. I hope his play convinces me that I am wrong, but this signing (and the others like it) don’t.

I think that the legacy of the Childress defection will be an impact on the negotiations of restricted free agents instead of unrestricted free agents, which Udrih and Pargo both were. NBA players have been signing with European teams for years. The reason that in-demand players are now going overseas is that the leagues are increasingly successful/well-funded and the dollar is tanking in comparison to the Euro, not because Childress opened up a new paradigm of negotiation.

I may be wrong, but this deal makes me think that the Kings could’ve had Pargo for two years at the full MLE (appx. $11-12M?), which I would’ve prefered to five years of Beno before the reverse Euro invasion and still would after. But ask me again in 2012, I suppose.

by furious.d on Aug 16, 2008 11:24 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

It says 3.5 million after russian taxes.

I want to be clear by saying first, I dont know how European basketball works. But from everything Ive gathered in the past, I do not believe there is a “Euroleague”, rather i think there are several different leagues within Europe and Asia. I believe, a few of these leagues are filled with teams that are all in one nation, while most of these leagues span several countries. Looking into The Dynamo’s wikipedia page, i found that they play in the Russian Super Basketball League, which appears to have 14 teams within Russia. So it looks like the 3.5 million is his. If what ive heard about the tax situation— in conversation regarding josh childress— is true then it would be more like a 7 million a year or 14 over two.

side note- totally agree that Beno’s contract is too much money over too long of a period. But i dont believe that Euro offers would have made any NBA team sign him to more than the full mid level. Perhaps, he makes more in Europe but i honestly believe hes making as much as he possibly can in the NBA right now.

by passionforPERPS on Aug 16, 2008 10:45 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

And ill save you from reading an article in snr,

Warped was was unbelievable today, eight angst filled stages with thousands of punks, skunks, mods, ska cats, emo chicks, pirates, princesses, and entirely too many men in hot pants(if your going to do at least have the fortitude to pop a few viagras beforehand). Ahh it was glorious.

by passionforPERPS on Aug 16, 2008 10:53 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Almost there :)

Well, in the fact almost each European country has its own national league (actually, I think each country has its own league, it used to be a condition by the international federation).

Apart from that, there are few regional leagues where teams compete along with their domestic competitions (such as Adriatic League /now NLB league/, Blatic League, or Balkan International League), ususally consisting of teams from few countries due to the conditions their federations agree on.

And finally, there are (nowadays three) the whole-Europe competition formats, ULEB Eurocup, The EuroChallenge and the Euroleague itself. Here, a team has to qualify to compete, based on the results in the domestic league or in the respective competition the previous year. (For example, the domestic champions in several countries qualify directly to the Euroleague as well as the winner of the ULEB cup, which is a second-tier competition, does. The EuroChallenge is a third-tier competition. However, the EuroLeague is open only for teams from certain countries, such as Spain, France, Italy, Israel, Russia, Lithuania, Turkey, Greece, Germany etc., i.e. from the best leagues in Europe).

Finally, there are two organisations in Europe that umbrella these competition, FIBA Europe (organising the EuroChallenge) and the ULEB (Union of European Leagues of Basketball), which focuses directly on the best and professional teams in Europe. So to compete in particular European competitions depends also on the agreements your team and/or your national federation has with the respective organisation… Complicated.

By “Euroleague”, usually the Euroleague, i.e. the best of these international leagues is understood, however, for example Joventud Badalona, which you might know as Ricky Rubio and Rudy Fernandez (coming to Portland and I think the MVP of the Spanish league last year) along with Jerome Moiso among others, who played in NBA, won the ULEB Cup last year. They had not qualified to the Euroleague the year before from their domestic Spanish league, so they competed in the second-best Euorpean competition. As a winner of this, they would qualify to the next year of Euroleague directly, no matter how they would have finished in the domestic league in Spain. Dynamo Moscow is a winner of the ULEB in 2006, I think.

A quite interesting (although very specific) article about few of European league in terms of discussing the future of Brandon Jennings is for example here

Although “to compete in Euroleague” is usually a label for players going to Europe, actually not all of them are going to do that. They might compete in other trans-national competitions, they might compete in the regional leagues and they might even compete ‘only’ in the domestic leagues in the countries they go to (which are very different, in terms of quality, style of game, public interest and support, the conditions for foreign players etc.).

The Russian leagues is not the best in Europe (perhaps the Spanish is), but they seem to have the most money in perspective. For example, in ice-hockey, they have plans to build a format that would compete with the NHL. Also, Russia always has a couple of top teams in Europe (maybe Spain is more evened) and I think they do not have quotas for foreign players (I think there can be only two non-EU players in Spain per one team).

by KingsFanfromCentralEurope on Aug 17, 2008 4:31 AM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

no problem

and sorry for misspelling and occassional forgetting to finish the sentence…

by KingsFanfromCentralEurope on Aug 17, 2008 9:48 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Rudy Fernandez

so far has been the most impressive non-NBA player I have seen in Beijing. He reminds me a lot of a younger Brent Barry in terms of his athleticism, outside shooting and height ( I refuse to say length). That said, he is a better play maker than Berry in my opionion. He is definately NBA ready and will do really well right away.
  David Anderson is another very impressive player, playing for FC Barcelona and a power forward for Australia. Overall, in the 3 games I saw Australia play live he outperformed Bogut everytime. I’m not sure of his age though and I doubt he would come over to the NBA.

by Travis Mays Hayes on Aug 17, 2008 7:32 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Andersen

I think he is 28. He’s pretty good, but I don’t think he would be a fit for the NBA style, while he is a perfect big man for the European basketball. You can watch his stats here, the guy has shot 54% for three, being 2.12m tall… Also, CSKA Moscow can afford to pay him.

by KingsFanfromCentralEurope on Aug 18, 2008 5:22 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Did he sign with CSKA Moscow?

  If so they are loading up on talent. His wife sat near me for their last game against Iran and she is smoking hot.
  Oh, also, all this hubbub about the Iranian basketball player not being allowed to play in the NBA because of some embargo, I think he wouldn’t be allowed to play in the NBA for the same reason I wouldn’t, he sucks.
  The guy runs like a baby girraffe trying to run down the dock of a moving ship, he can’t take two dribbles in succession, and he has no moves to speak of. In the Manut Bol era he would have gotten drafted but I have to think that hopefully NBA gm’s have more sense now.
  Other observations:
-The big huge guy from Greece Sucks, and apparently he is called Baby Shaq in Europe, which is funny.
- The German team is horrible and watching them really shows that if you don’t have good players at the guard position you can have all the Dirk’s and Kaman’s you want and you still wont beat China.
-Sun Yue (sp?) has been the best player on the Chinese team, which overall is a very fun team to watch as they play an exciting brand of basketball. If you ask a Chinese person they will tell you that Sun is playing for the Lakers next year. I’m not sure if that is entirely sure, but I am pretty sure he is in their system somehow. He can jump extremely well and has the most famous block in Chinese basketball history when he swatted Dwight Howard. Beyond that, he has outperformed Yao, Yi and Wang ZhiZhi and really taken the roll of Mike Bibby circa 2002 as the young clutch player for China.

by Travis Mays Hayes on Aug 19, 2008 1:20 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Andersen

No he did not, he is still in Barcelona. He played for Moscow in the past and I have heard there is an interest again, but anyway, I think Barcelona can pay him as well… Good observing stuff anyway!

by KingsFanfromCentralEurope on Aug 19, 2008 4:02 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

But

he is listed as a point guard on virtually every NBA-related website (ESPN,Fox,HoopsHype,ShamSports, etc.). I don’t disagree with your opinion, given that he is much more of a shooter than a distributor, but he is still considered a PG.

SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Aug 17, 2008 9:40 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

but still

he shouldn’t be considered as a starting pg in the nba. he definitely isn’t one.

by cwebb on Aug 18, 2008 2:41 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

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But don’t kid yourself, international forces are on the march.

Man, I’m hungry all of a sudden.

Rocks are free, and slingshots easily stolen.

by andy sims on Aug 16, 2008 9:26 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Ha!

SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Aug 16, 2008 9:55 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Im a bit ashamed of having Udrih as a starter :S

Watching mediocre to poor NBA players leaving for Europe (with the exception of Childress) and being happy about keeping and overpaying Udrih isn’t exactly something to be happy about. Of course I never believed in Udrih so I might be wrong about this, but I guess we’ll find out soon.

by ZenBaller on Aug 16, 2008 1:16 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I think you are wrong

I think Beno’s contract is a fair one. It may turn out to be a bargain for the Kings. Like you said, we’ll see.

by KingsFan on Aug 17, 2008 8:54 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not Much Difference

Dug this up as part of a Salmons post on another thread:

Last season:

  • When Bibby started: Kings 6-6.
  • When Beno started: Kings 24-27.
  • When neither started: Kings 8-10 (including a 2-5 start when Artest was suspended).

by coolcatreportdotcom on Aug 16, 2008 4:24 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Make that 8-11

When neither Beno or Bibby started.

by coolcatreportdotcom on Aug 16, 2008 4:45 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Udrih is only bound to get better

I think some people are being overly critical of Udrih. He was coming off an injury. He was picked up off the FA market after having received no play time on the Spurs his whole rookie contract. He wasn’t able to do training camp with the Kings, so he didn’t have a feel for any of the players. …and then he was thrown into the fire his first day back from his injury, from what was essentially his first real game he’s ever played in the NBA. …and THEN outplayed veteran Mike Bibby for the starting spot.

Udrih is only bound to get better.

by CloudyEyes on Aug 16, 2008 7:38 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Yep

Good points all around. He did well considering.

by coolcatreportdotcom on Aug 16, 2008 8:09 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree

and look forward to seeing what Beno can do once he becomes more familiar with the strengths and talents of his team mates. I think the biggest improvement in his game will be his amount of assists.

by KingsFan on Aug 17, 2008 2:11 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Is the league worried by this

When do you think the first major player will decide to go to Europe for the money. I can see someone who will use Europe as leverage to get a big deal. There is no salary cap overthere Its like when Bo Jackson signed with the Royals as the Bucs wouldn’t pay him what he was worth to play football.

If I was the NBA I’d be concerned

by Murf on Aug 18, 2008 8:18 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Gift

The Kings were given a gift in that of Beno Udrih. I just really hope he can control his turnovers.

by mr mark on Aug 19, 2008 2:08 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I think the Beno Udrih signing aside

The most interesting thing about the summer is the trading of both 2nd round picks with seemingly better talent available. I find that more curious than any single thing whether the Kings are properly paying Udrih. And the reason I say that, is for no other reason, that’s the type of judgment we can only make down the road.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on

by pookeyguru on Aug 19, 2008 3:22 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

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