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Will Reggie Survive?

In a perfect world, Reggie Theus wouldn't be judged by the team's won-loss record this season. He'd be judged by how well he develops the roster, both the starters (Kevin Martin, Beno Udrih) and the kids (Donté Greene, Jason Thompson, Spencer Hawes).

But even if it were a perfect world, Reggie would still coach for wins. That means plenty of Mikki Moore and Brad Miller, and plenty of John Salmons (which actually isn't a bad thing -- boost that confidence/value). In this mundane world, where it's not hard to imagine a coach's job riding on the difference between 37 and 39 wins, Theus has no choice but to fight for every victory, player development be damned.

That's why it doesn't make sense to offer Theus an extension this summer/fall. It's not going to change anything. Theus will play to win regardless, and an extra year on his contract isn't going to ensure minutes for Greene or patience with Hawes. It's just going to tie the franchise's hands an extra year, with the sincere possibility the team played over its head in 2007-08, and that Theus just doesn't mesh with the core.

Remember: Theus had to fine Mikki and Salmons after arguments. Hawes openly pushed for more minutes. Martin blew up two days after the season ended. Evidently, some other players you'd think would stand firmly in Reggie's corner were unimpressed with his rookie year.

Geoff Petrie has brushed him back (the "loquacious" quote). The Maloofs pressed him through the media to play Shelden Williams and Quincy Douby. Those parties agreed to trade Reggie's favorite player.

Far from being united behind Theus, it seems most who matter have at least at one point publicly disagreed with or feuded with the coach. That's not a good situation. If the Kings decide to wait out the season to see if he adjusts to fit in, it's a smart move. And if they switch paths next summer, it's not the end of the world. There are other potentially good coaches out there.

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If the powers that be are consistent...

    Theus will be evaluated more on his teaching ability and motivation than on his wins.. The Kings have – for better or worse – hitched their wagons to newcomers, Shawes, Jason Thompson and Donte Greene, and Theus fortunes will ride on how well those three, and the rest of the young core, respond and develop under his guidance.
     Theres a good chance, like Ziller said, that Theus does not, in fact, have the chops to pull this off, given his limited coaching experience, and clumsy player handling.

by Citadel 29 on Aug 18, 2008 6:51 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Rebuild!

Also: Rebuild and REBUILD.

Last year was very frustrating, knowing at the start of the season that the Kings weren’t going to be in the playoffs, and yet not seeing the younger players get enough minutes to develop. Not making the playoffs + missing the lottery = huge failure.

The Kings have had, in my opinion, a pretty promising draft and offseason, but this is not a playoff team this year. If Theus starts really developing the youth, win or lose, I hope the management will extend his contract another year.

I’m not convinced Reggie is a great coach yet, but if he’s going to play the kids, he’s going to take the losses, and shouldn’t have to pay for it.

Rocks are free, and slingshots easily stolen.

by andy sims on Aug 18, 2008 7:37 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Will the Maloofs and Petrie have the discipline

…to replace Reggie midseason if he’s unwilling to play the kids? Or will they be scared of the PR hit? Will the front office be frank with Reggie about the need to play the kids extended minutes even if it results in home losses to Atlanta and Charlotte? Or are we still pretending that this is a playoff squad if everyone stays healthy? I hope I can see that all levels of the organization are on the same page come November.

by discocricket on Aug 18, 2008 7:48 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Oh I've been waiting for this topic

Well done Mr. Ziller.
Last season, Theus showed potential as a coach (win-loss improvement over last year, managed a team weighed down by injuries and trade rumors and over-zealous veterans) but because he is so “loquacious” he also exposed the weak points in his character (has-been insecurity, spot-light envy)
I believe in the capacity for personal growth so I look forward to seeing if Theus took this off-season to reflect on what aspects of his youthful personality are prepared to give way to what is required of him to succeed as a rebuilding coach (i.e. humility and patience)

by BrooklynFan on Aug 18, 2008 8:21 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I like Reggie

I hope he stays a long time. He’s a good coach and is a good image for the Kings organization. The Maloofs seem to know what they are doing.

by KingsFan on Aug 18, 2008 8:35 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Married to the Sea

I wouldn’t over think Theus’ job security, or presumptive lack thereof, just yet. Remember where we were a year ago. The Kings were a laughing stock for his hire and pre-season previews couldn’t mention Theus without copious references to his previous career as Coach Bill Fuller. I thought Theus made the best of a bad situation. That those results remained underwhelming is less an indictment on Theus’ inabilities and more a statement on the state of the franchise. Without question Theus’ handling of player and playing time management last season was naïve and at times outright incompetent, but even the most gifted of NBA head coaches have difficulty navigating those swells (hello Mike D’Antoni.) Is he brash and blustery? To be sure. But short of the late spring Martin fallout I never saw any of the passive-aggressive, destructively disobedient behavior that doomed Musselman’s stay in Sacramento. Calling a coach out for being loquacious is a criticism, but not a damning one, and certainly not one that would warrant any job security concerns with Theus. As for Artest I was never entirely sure how much of Theus’ love for him stemmed from actual affection or simple survival. Fair or not, from a self preservation standpoint it’s best not to alienate the most mercurial player in the league, particularly when your past, and only, coaching experience was in Las Cruces.

I’ve always felt Theus’ job security will come into question when this Kings roster starts to develop actual expectations. This incarnation isn’t expected to be a lottery team in perpetuity and as we all know it’s considerably harder to make an above average team a playoff contender than it is to make a below average team above average. The weight of those expectations have doomed much more experienced coaches (Terry Porter, Paul Silas, our beloved Musselman) and I think it’s Theus’ ability or inability to shepherd this team from upended to upstart that will serve as the referendum on his Kings’ coaching career.

by rbiegler on Aug 18, 2008 9:17 AM PDT reply actions   1 recs

As Petrie goes

So goes Theus.

This year will be a rebuilding year, and then we’ll start to get a chance to be better. But it will be Petrie’s moves at the deadline and next summer that determine where the Kings go. Theus can only screw it up if he has something to screw up.

by coolcatreportdotcom on Aug 19, 2008 9:54 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Theus gets it...I think

I haven’t been optimistic that Theus got young player development in the past, but I think the Artest trade is the real signal that things have changed. Theus is Inevitably going to win as many games as he can, and he should get that he needs to get the young guys minutes at the same time. It means that Miller, Moore and Salmons are going to start, but none of them should play more than 30 minutes per game.

by Carl on Aug 18, 2008 9:41 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Absolutely not the time for an extension

Right now Petrie needs to take a “wait and see” approach. What he should be looking for:

1. Does he have the respect from the players and the buy-in from them for his program.

2. Can he develop young talent into NBA talent? This should be his strength, given his college experience, but I think several of the younger players (Hawes in particular) need a lot more guidance than they’re getting. Maybe a big-man coach would be a good hire.

3. Can he maintain a winning attitude among his players despite what will be some very rough stretches this season?

4. Can he out-coach other teams down the stretch of tight games with match-ups and play calling?

 I’m not sold on Theus yet, though I’m willing to be convinced.

Wait and see.

Let's go home.-Kevin Martin

by LeaguePassAddict on Aug 18, 2008 10:08 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I won't judge Theus on win/loss record.

I believe that Theus should be judged on two things this season.

1- Does his team play hard, compete every night regardless of outcome for a full 48 minutes. This is where Theus won me over last year, his team always competed, came prepared, made good decisions out timeouts and quarter breaks which was a welcome change from the previous year.

2- How well he handles his players both behind close doors and in the media. Theus repeatedly shot himself in the foot last year by running his mouth. We all appreciate his ability to tell it like it is but the dude needs to develop a filter or he’ll run himself out of town.

I don’t expect improvement on last years win total but I would like to see Theus establish Martin as the man, define roles for his other players and let JT and Donte play. Unlike a lot of others here on StR, I could care less about Douby and Shelden, I don’t believe them to be NBA players. For me, this year is about setting up the infrastructure for the future, if a guy isn’t in the plans for the next 2 or 3 years, his role should be minimal, that goes for Moore, Douby, Williams and to a certain extent Jackson and Miller (although the team will probably need these two to be competitive on a nightly basis).

Hot dogs, get your hot dogs.

by jjham15 on Aug 18, 2008 10:11 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I feel the same way.

Not necessarily about Douby/Shelden – who I’m not all that high on myself – but definitely in regards to Theus. To me, he did a good job last year, based almost entirely on the effort put forth every night by the players. Compared to the brief Musselman-era it was a night and day difference, and one I immediately appreciated.

If Theus can continue to get that kind of effort out of the players, in what may be a 30-win season, I think that’s a key sign of a job well done. If he can filter himself a bit as well, then that will be cause for an extension in my book.

Yes, the young guys need to play, but they also need to earn their minutes – both in practice, and in the few minutes they do see early in the year. I’m all for the young guys playing and developing, but I think it could actually be detrimental to their development to just put guys out there because ’they’re the future’. If they’re getting schooled, or not pushing themselves as hard as they possibly can to get better, then I want a coach who will call them on it and sit their butts on the bench until they step it up.

by cabz on Aug 18, 2008 3:00 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Can't believe I'm actually disagreeing with the great TZ

But this one pulled me out of my self-imposed (and slightly LPA-imposed) silence while I focus of the first draft of my next novel.

Far from being united behind Theus, it seems most who matter have at least at one point publicly disagreed with or feuded with the coach. That’s not a good situation.

At this point in the Kings’ and Reggie’s development, I think that disagreement is exactly what the Kings do need if they are to improve. Not the kind of disagreement we saw with Musselman, where everyone basically said the coach sucked. But the kind of disagreement where each player thinks they should get more minutes, more shots, more respect, etc.

What that tells me is that you have a coach who isn’t giving in to anyone. He is doing what he thinks is right. You want more minutes? Great. Fight for them. You want more respect? Excellent, earn it. You want me to play the young guys more? Then trade some of the vets and give me a little breathing room in W/L column. A team at this stage in the Kings rebuilding should be barking at each other. If they were a happy little family, I’d be really worried. Let them be happy when they are solidly located in the playoffs. For now I want some bad attitude.

"Being loquacious and being right aren't necessarily always the same."
GP, the man, the myth, the legend, puts the smackdown on Reggie

by SavageBeast on Aug 18, 2008 10:47 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

26 mpg for Hawes or byebye Reggie!

Given the mediocre quality of our team (plus the injuries) last season and some really big wins we managed to do, I give a lot of credit to Reggie’s coaching ability. It’s very disappointing however to see our youngsters play minor minutes. The last season was the definition of “transitional season”. We still had Artest and we didn’t have enough youth. So up to a point I can’t complain about Hawes’ lack of playing time.

That’s no longer the case this year. We have Thompson and Greene, Artest is gone and this is the first real year of building. Brad Miller and Moore have to play max 20-25 minutes. If the young players prove that they are capable of holding the team to a respectable level, then their PT should increase even more after the All-Star break (a Brad Miller and/or Moore trade would help).

If Theus gives 15 mpg to Hawes/Thompson/Greene I believe he should be leave next summer. That would be a “crime” to both the team as a whole but also to a every young player individually. It would be like holding back their career for a year.

Anyway… who is really responsible about making these calls? Who is the person that’s going to say “Hawes will play 30 mins this year”. Is it Theus? the Maloofs? Petrie?

by ZenBaller on Aug 18, 2008 2:16 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

This is why

The Kings need to pursue all avenues to trade Brad Miller.

Spencer, Jason and MAYBE Shelden are the pieces the Kings will look to build around for their frontline with Beno, K-Mart, Cisco and MAYBE Douby at the backcourt.

Our youthful front-line will tell us whether the Kings will be a decent team this year. I expect Brad and Mikki to not be as productive as they are approaching mid 30’s.

BOOK IT!

by kingme18 on Aug 18, 2008 2:38 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Maybe, but

Who wants to pay to see a team full of rookies get the hell beat out of them night after night? It’s a business about putting butts in the seats and lately it has not been so easy to do so at Arco. Sure the Kings need to work toward a future that brings them back into contention but at the same time they need to be somewhat competitive.

by KingsFan on Aug 18, 2008 3:43 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I would pay...

…but I’m fortunately I’m in Greece.

kingme18 has a point and I agree completely. Miller has to be traded or his minutes should go down to 20-25.

by ZenBaller on Aug 18, 2008 5:36 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

where in Greece?

Just came back from vacation there.

Life is every mammal's journey from very very wet to very very dry.

by Holmdel on Aug 18, 2008 5:51 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Athens

Half the population lives in Athens. I hope you had a good time! Probably in an island I guess.

by ZenBaller on Aug 18, 2008 7:54 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

mostly on Siphnos

My wife is Greek. It was my ninth time going. Spent just a couple days in Athens. We loved the new pedestrian walkway/park around the Acropolis (Pezodromo). Beautiful.

Life is every mammal's journey from very very wet to very very dry.

by Holmdel on Aug 18, 2008 9:00 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

As a season ticket holder...

I would rather continue to pay for my tickets while watching some hope for the future, then watch Brad and Mikki play 40 minutes a contest while JT and Hawes rot on the bench. I’m all for them earning their playing time, at least to some extent, but I think we need to balance ‘competitiveness’ with giving a realistic shot to the young guys. Make them work their butts off in practice and reward them with enough minutes for it to be constructive.

The Kings definitely aren’t winning anything this year, let alone making the playoffs without a massive trade that I don’t see coming, so shoving all the vets down our throats to try to win an extra 3 games while telling us that their goal is to make the playoffs (like last year) is just complete bs. Spare me, and get the young guys in there as much as you can without spoiling their work ethic.

by cabz on Aug 18, 2008 9:59 PM PDT up reply actions   2 recs

A Scenario in which we will want Brad on the team

Hawes starts at center. Ball tips off, Hawes swats the ball to Beno. He runs down the court sets up in the high post, Beno feeds him the ball. The opposing center is in Hawes’s face. Hawes pivots, blocks with his elbows, there’s a flurry of activity from our wings running aroud getting open, Kevin Martin gets open on a slash to the hoop. Hawes throws up a sky hook. Theus pulls him out of the game, puts Miller in, sits Hawes down and says please watch how he does this. Brad executes the same play but passes to Kevin for a score then the next time the teams runs down the court and sets up in the high post the opposing center plays Brad soft to watch out for the slash, Brad turns and sinks an open basket. Hawes’s lesson learned and thereafter improves his ppg by 4 and assists by 2. Now Hawes is a career 16 8 4 guy instead of a 12 8 2 guy.

by BrooklynFan on Aug 19, 2008 6:03 AM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Trade Miller?

I’d like to see Hawesbe mentored by/try to earn minutes away from Brad Miller. I understand that we’re rebuilding and that playing our young guys a bit more is going to be necessary, but SB is right, the kids need to earn their playing time, and the vets have a lot of wisdom and stability that they can offer the kids.

I’d love to see Miller teach Hawes how to pass from the perimeter to a cutting Martin/Salmons/Garcia, even Beno. I’d love to see Hawes focus on rebounding. And I pray that somebody can make Hawes fall OUT of love with his skyhook. At least until he can hit it in a game setting.

Let's go home.-Kevin Martin

by LeaguePassAddict on Aug 18, 2008 3:54 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't know...

we fault Miller for not having a hook or post move but you want Hawes to abandon his hook at age 20? Let’s give him some time to develop all of his moves, last time I checked that hook thingy worked out pretty well for Kareem.

Hot dogs, get your hot dogs.

by jjham15 on Aug 18, 2008 4:22 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

He should only be in love with it

once it starts working.

Practice, great. But he hasn’t figured it out in a game yet. Right now it’s just a blocked shot waiting to happen.

Let's go home.-Kevin Martin

by LeaguePassAddict on Aug 19, 2008 4:55 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Brad is our big man coach

The most expensive big man coach in history, but at least he’s qualified.

Life is every mammal's journey from very very wet to very very dry.

by Holmdel on Aug 18, 2008 5:00 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Just cause hes old, doesnt mean hes a coach.

You can’t make Miller coach the young men, anymore than you can get him to abandon the weed, apparently. Assuming that because he is the oldest person there, he will “lay down some wisdom” could be naive. Trading him, hopefully for some younger peices, and giving Hawes solid starter minutes against the NBA’s best, will do more for his development at this point, because he is ready.

by Citadel 29 on Aug 18, 2008 7:41 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

might be right

but I just remember how much Vlade did for Brad’s game after he got here. Brad had been getting starter’s minutes in Chicago and Indiana, but really got much better under Vlade’s tutelage.

Life is every mammal's journey from very very wet to very very dry.

by Holmdel on Aug 18, 2008 9:02 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Theus needs a year without Artest

Let me be clear before speaking. I am a Blazers fan, but I live in Yuba City so I see theKings alot, and when they are not playing the Blazers I wish them well. I think the Kings are in the same place the Blazers were 3 years ago, but they didn’t have to go the jailblazers route to get there (credit Petrie for that) McMillan got the Blazers to the cusp of a great team by mixing vets with the right attitude with young players with potential.

By trading Artest, the Kings have given themselves that kind of mix. Mikki Moore, Salmons, Udrih, these are veterans who can play roles and mentor the younger guys. I have a hard time seeing Brad Miller in that sort of spot, but he would be well served to play mentor to Hawes….when his contract expires in a couple of years his willingness to play that part will enhance his value and help him get a bigger contract. Artest was a very entertaining guy (I did enjoy him on Carmichael Daves show), but was not a guy who was well suited to a project like this or a young insecure coach. I cannot say if Theus will be effective as a coach in rebuilding mode or not, and I don’t think anyone can. See what he does this year without Artest, see if the team blows up or takes instruction, and that will be the time to judge. If he is not panning out, the best bet is for the Kings to look for their Nate McMillan (Maybe the Duke coach who is coaching the Olympics would be good).

by yubaduck on Aug 18, 2008 6:58 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I agree

  Theus wants to be there for the sake of his job and wins so he doesn’t get fired. That’s the reason why Theus didn’t start playing Hawes and Williams until there was about 3 games left in the season. Even when our hopes of making the playoffs was impossible, he still played out the usual team, just to boost up his win-loss ratio.

  I don’t believe Theus is a re-building team’s coach. I agree that he should be replaced for the sake of the Kings’ future.

by CloudyEyes on Aug 18, 2008 9:42 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I really don't understand the criticism of Theus for trying to WIN GAMES...

The message from the franchise to the fans last year, not just Theus, was that they were going to try to make the playoffs. Theus, if nothing else, seemed to have the team playing hard all year. As much as I would have liked to see the young guys get a few more chances, the last thing I’m going to fault a coach for is trying to win and getting his players to buy into that (and I think the fact that they played hard night after night is evidence that they did buy into it).

If you want to see the young guys more, take it up with Petrie and the Maloofs for not clearing out the veteran players and stating publicly that they’re rebuilding. They set the job expectations, publicly and privately, as well as the length of the contract, and if they want the young guys out there they need to step up and say it. Until then, Theus’ job is to win as many games as possible with the team he’s given – it isn’t his job to declare the Kings are in rebuilding mode and sit the vets in favor of younger players who don’t give the team as good of a chance to win each game.

by cabz on Aug 18, 2008 10:12 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Isn't there a point where

Theus goes to management and tells them that by playing the young kids the teams record would look worse that what it could be. This is just from Theus’ perspective. I mean, he could get assurance by the Maloofs and Petrie that he’s not going anywhere as long as certain goals are met. I know this is a business and no such deals probably exist but from his perspective, his situation is not an easy one. Something like that could be arranged. If you were told by yout boss to hire incompetent workers just to save money for the future, thus risking the company’s profits in the present all the shareholdrs would hate you cause its your job to get those workers. It may not be the best example, and by no means im I calling our young guys incompetent but I just wanted to try to illustrate an example that we all can relate to.

I’m definitely on the camp of playing the young kids as much as possible so I’m not trying to defend Theus. At the same time, we all have to realize the tough situation he is in

by eduardo_m7 on Aug 18, 2008 10:05 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Fire Reggie!!!!

Reggie Theus is a horrible coach!!! He doesnt belong in the NBA… They only hired him because they felt he would bring more fans to the game its soo obvious Peotrie didnt want him… We should of kept Adelman. The players respected & loved him more.. I never understood why they got rid of him in the first place… But aslong as Theus is coaching, this team will never succeed.. He doesnt care about developing players.. He just cares about staying in the NBA and collecting those big checks…

by JustaRealDude on Aug 18, 2008 10:32 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Quincy!

How’s your summer going?

Let's go home.-Kevin Martin

by LeaguePassAddict on Aug 19, 2008 4:57 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Seriously

Like he’s fooling anybody.

Let's go home.-Kevin Martin

by LeaguePassAddict on Aug 20, 2008 6:47 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

The giveaway

is how his name runs together, just like his eyebrow.

SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Aug 20, 2008 11:36 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

So does mine.

What are you implying?

Let's go home.-Kevin Martin

by LeaguePassAddict on Aug 21, 2008 9:05 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Nothing

I can see that you have waxed between the e & the P and the s & the A.

SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Aug 21, 2008 9:26 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah

But only because SB kept calling me Bert.

Let's go home.-Kevin Martin

by LeaguePassAddict on Aug 21, 2008 9:48 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Theus

This coming season will mark the end of the Reggie Theus era. There will be quite a few more experienced coaches ready to take on such a young team.

by mr mark on Aug 19, 2008 1:53 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Wow

Lots of anti-Theus angst here. We debated his performance at this site most of last season, but it seemed overall people were fairly positive about his first year’s effort, considering:

  • Ron-Ron was trying to run his own program
  • The team was dealing with massive injuries
  • Bibby and Artest were playing tug of war with the ball on offense
  • There really wasn’t much talent on the roster

Theus made some missteps last year – namely, the whole stupid cell phone thing in training camp that blew up in his face. He tried to discipline his players through the media unsuccessfully, and clearly has a massive need for attention and ego-stroking (not sure he’s much different than the Phil Jacksons/Larry Browns of the world there).

But the bottom line for me is that the team played hard for him, and they won more games than I thought their talent level was worth, especially in light of the injuries. I mean, he had Mikki Moore as a starting PF for god’s sake!

Beyond that, the team was actually fun to watch, which was a huge change from the Musselman, and yes, even the Adelman squads towards the end.

I think you’d have to call the first year a success for Theus. Just like any rookie coach, he struggled at times, but I got the sense he was starting to figure it out. He’s earned some leeway, in my opinion, and I’m still pretty optimistic that he’s going to be a good head coach over the long haul.

By the way, I think Adelman sucks nuts. He may be a decent coach, but I was tired of looking at his whiny ass on the sidelines and with the media towards the end of his tenure. Everyone crows about the San Antonio series (a first round exit in six-games remember), but the franchise was in a serious decline on the court. It was time for him to go.

Kevin Pritchard has Chuck Norris tied up in the trunk of his car.

by otis29 on Aug 19, 2008 4:03 AM PDT reply actions   1 recs

Good post, Otis

On the money, IMO. Adelman was a rigid coach who could not adapt to dynamic situations. I think his head was made of wood. It’s like he had a written game plan and nothing was going to change it. Remember when Webber came back from injury and Adleman’s game plan called for him to be the starting PF come hell or high water? I am sooo glad that hard head is gone.

Yes the most important point you brought up is the team is now fun to watch. I hope Reggie stays a long time.

by KingsFan on Aug 19, 2008 8:41 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

While I don't agree that Adelman sucks nuts...

I do agree with the rest of your post. I’m not sure what has transpired during the off-season to change peoples opinions of Theus, but it definitely seemed like the general consensus last year was that he did a pretty good job. He wasn’t perfect, as you pointed out, but he certainly got the players to play hard every night and won more games than most expected.

I really think a lot of the hate for Theus has nothing to do with his coaching ability, which I think we’ll learn a lot more about this year minus Artest, but simply the state of the franchise. Similar to the calls for Petrie’s head earlier this off-season, people seem to be looking for someone to point the finger at.

by cabz on Aug 19, 2008 10:55 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think on the whole Theus did well last year, especially given the circumstances. I still don’t think the Kings should extend him at this point, and I think that sad reality will affect the relationship. It’s just a bit of bad timing/circumstance.

by Ziller on Aug 19, 2008 10:57 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree...

Let it play out this year, see if he can keep his mouth shut a bit more in public and continue to get solid effort out of a team that won’t win a lot of games. If he does that, and the young guys seem to be progressing, I’ll be on board with an extension by the end of the year.

by cabz on Aug 19, 2008 12:06 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

How well will he be with rookies?

In a lot of ways Theus was like Adelman. They both depended alot on the Vets and they both had a short fuse when it came to rookie mistakes. Theus’ future will depend on how well the coaching staff does in developing the rookies including the two first rounders next year.

Does the staff have the knowledge to help 4 low post players? Their experience seems to be that of 4 guards and a SF who shot alot from the out side. What ever became of the idea of adding a big man coach?

by HighTops on Aug 19, 2008 1:23 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

But from which end?

Theus knew he wasn’t getting anything beyond a guaranteed 2 years. He knew it was littered with problems when he took the job. So why is that surprising, and why would that effect the relationship from his end? I think on the whole he was asked to balance 10 things, and did so effectively with 7, but the other 3 were all related to Ron Artest, and he made an effective show of believing Ron Artest was worth the trouble.

I’m not sure I agree with that point since Theus has a year to effective to prove the prior moot regarding Artest moot. That being said I still think your statement is from the Maloof’s end, and should be, but if it comes down to Reggie’s ego, and it may, then you’re probably right it’s a case of bad timing/circumstance.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on

by pookeyguru on Aug 25, 2008 4:55 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

It's not the coaching, it's player development

I don’t have a major issue with the way Theus coaches games, and he did learn from some mistakes last season. I’m not happy with all the griping that went on with the players, which I blame Theus for. My primary question is whether Theus is going to play the young guys. Riding Brad Miller and Mikki Moore for 37 minutes per game is not what we should be doing at this point. I think Theus gets that, but we won’t know for sure until the season starts.

by Carl on Aug 19, 2008 1:20 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Again, I don't see that as entirely an issue with Theus.

Petrie and Theus need to be in agreement on the goals for this season and execute accordingly. To beat up on Theus for not playing the younger players as much as he could have, when the posturing by the franchise (Petrie/Maloofs) was that they were still trying to make the playoffs, is a bit absurd to me. Had the franchise made it clear that last year was a rebuilding year, and had Theus still continued to play the vets, then I think you would have a point, but that isn’t what they did.

Could Theus have played the young guys a bit more at the end of the season? Sure. Were they earning their time by busting their butts in practice, and in the few minutes they got into the game? I’m not sure. I do know that I saw Hawes standing around a lot on both sides of the ball when he was in the game – chalk that up to whatever you want (effort, lack of understanding, etc.), but to me it showed that he had a lot of learning to do.

I will be curious to see what happens this year, but I’m definitely not going to put the blame all on Theus for the young players not playing more last year. Petrie is just as responsible for that, if not more so, but creating the log jam and refusing to admit that the Kings needed to blow things up. Unless Theus was specifically told otherwise, why would you expect him not to try to win as many games as possible?

by cabz on Aug 19, 2008 2:06 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

In theory

In theory, the coach controls the minutes. I get what you’re saying, but Theus coaches the team, not the Maloofs or Geoff Petrie. The Maloofs getting on Theus for not playing young guys at the end of the season tells me he wasn’t actually in sync with what they wanted. Generally speaking, I’m going to hold Petrie responsible for personnel moves (and I have) and Theus responsible for coaching decisions (done that too). I agree that there was an organizational influence in Theus’s rotations, but I don’t agree that the organization tied his hands, especially near the end of the year.

by Carl on Aug 19, 2008 11:01 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

My point wasn't so much that his hands were tied...

but essentially that I think 99% of coaches would have acted in the same manner given the public posturing by the GM/Owners – which was that the team was still trying to win. If that’s the public image your bosses are portraying, and you were hired to win games as possible, why should you be expected by the fans to do anything but that?

With a short-term contract, why would you expect Theus to manage for the long-term by playing young guys who were not ready to contribute (and yes, Hawes showed that he wasn’t ready in the minutes he did get, as did Douby)? I think we’ll have to agree to disagree on this one. I would like to see more of the young guys as well (and I’d like to see them take their thumbs out of their butts while they’re on the floor too), but I certainly don’t hold it against Theus for trying to win as many games as possible with the roster he was given.

by cabz on Aug 19, 2008 11:12 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Agree

So as not to be disagreeable, I agree that we need to agree to disagree. Or something.

by Carl on Aug 20, 2008 12:57 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Also

Whether the fault lies with Theus or the organization as a whole, the direction was clearly wrong. I’m glad they finally corrected it with the Artest/Bibby trades.

by Carl on Aug 20, 2008 12:58 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yes...

that I can agree with you on. I’m also in favor of moving Mikki, and possibly Salmons, once (and if) our young guys show they can take on the minutes. Beno showed he could take over Bibby’s role before that trade, as did Salmons/Garcia before Artest was moved, and I don’t want to see the young guys forced into major minutes until they show they’re ready for it. I don’t want to see K9 hit the floor because Mikki is gone and Hawes/JT are getting schooled.

by cabz on Aug 20, 2008 3:45 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Pt doesn't guarantee development

I agree. It’s the coachs job to ensure the players on the court understand the offense and their part in it. If Theus thought his 19 yr old rookie wasn’t ready then he shouldn’t have played him. Not only does it hurt the other 11 men who are busting their humps to win the game, but it does nothing to advance the development of the rookie.

Having said that, I think there will be a time when Theus will be held accountable for the development of his young players. But, I think it will be the coaching staffs ability to teach, and not just PT, that will deternine if our young core become stars.

"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom

by HighTops on Aug 19, 2008 3:40 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Good points...

I think at least a few of the youngsters (Hawes/JT/Greene) need to show development this year under Theus – if not, he’s most likely doomed on the extension front. That might be a tall order though, considering how raw Hawes still looked in Vegas, so I’ll be looking for the development more in JT and Greene.

by cabz on Aug 19, 2008 4:17 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

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