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What’s the over/under on Reggie Theus being fired midseason?

Reading Reggie's Bobby Jackson quote convinces me that I should remain firmly in the camp of the Reggie skeptics.  Reggie has probably forgotten more about basketball than I’ll ever know, but I’m still not sold on Theus, based largely on his public persona and in-game management. That doesn’t mean he can’t coach, and it doesn’t mean that he won’t continue to learn (if we take him at his word that he spent last season learning from his mistakes).  Oh, and he just can’t help himself from offending his players. So, for the last three or four minutes, I’ve been dwelling on the possibility for Reggie getting fired at some point during this season.  So, here are a few questions for the community to ponder. (And yes, I could have just made them questions 1 through 4, but it felt better to have a multi-part question.)

1) What will the locker room tell us about Reggie’s hold on his team? Now that Artest is away in Houston ready to step on Yao’s foot and smack T-Mac on the back, Reggie has to be held accountable for any locker room divisiveness. You can no longer cite the (un)necessary Ron Artest double standard when guys like Kmart, Salmons, and others get upset with coaching staff.  With Bibby and Artest out the door and K-9 neutered, the locker room doesn’t have any established problem children of which I’m aware.

2a) Can the Kings afford to fire Reggie? Having a coaching carousel is never a good thing. There’s no consistent system for the players to learn. That scenario is a problem in general, but even more pressing when you are trying to develop talent. Also, in-season coaching changes rarely do anything to spark a team to victory. I know this is often because the coach takes the fall for a poorly constructed team or one without a great deal of talent. That said, there has to a be a point at which one considers a club to be under achieving, so...

2b) How many losses have to pile up for Reggie to get the axe? Would a team that starts out 5 and 20, do it? How about 10 and 30? Or, does it matter how the team wins or loses? As long as players are competing and playing hard does it matter if the team wins only twenty games? Thirty games?

2c) If you do fire Reggie during the season or after, who’s out there that could step in and make the team better? The Rifleman? BJax as player-coach? Avery Johnson might take the job, though would he be any better than Reggie at player development? (Now that I think about it, do we even know how good Reggie is at developing talent?) Mark Jackson perhaps? Let’s face it, until Gregg Popovich decides to trade in the Riverwalk for Old Sac or (gulp) Phil Jackson prefers the slower pace of a cow-town to the glitz of L.A., there aren’t a lot of proven winners out there.

(This is a FanPost from a member of the Sactown Royalty community. The views expressed come from the member, and not Sactown Royalty staff.)

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Unlikely

Though I agree Reggie needs to edit himself a bit more and some of your points, a monumental crash would be required. I don’t see that crash coming.

eternal skeptical optimist

by lietothegirls on Aug 29, 2008 8:44 AM PDT   0 recs

Agreed.

If Reggie is let go, it will be in the offseason, unless there is an enormous blowup.

by Carl on Aug 29, 2008 12:00 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

It would take something huge

for Reggie to be replaced during the season. Aren’t the Kings still paying E-Muss this year (not sure)? Firing Reggie would mean paying three head coaches at once, and it would also send a bad message around the league as it pertains to the stability of ownership and the franchise in general.

Theus is coaching for an extension, to be sure. But I don’t think that he has to worry about being fired this year. Let’s not forget, he had this team playing its collective arse off last year, including (especially?) after they were eliminated from the playoffs. I’m not sure how many coaches could have extracted more than 38 wins from last year’s injury riddled roster, but it’s probably a short list (Jackson, Pop, maybe D’Antoni or Nelson or Sloan or Adelman).

Let’s not throw out the baby with the bathwater. Theus is a loose cannon with the media, and he has to become better with his player relations (see Martin, Kevin). But is anyone really disappointed with his overall performance last year? I’d give him a solid “B” as a first time NBA coach.

SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Aug 29, 2008 9:38 AM PDT   2 recs

Agreed

Well said, section

Never forget: I am a complete idiot

by Exhibit G on Aug 29, 2008 3:30 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Yep, Muss is on the payroll.

by Ziller on Aug 30, 2008 7:10 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Muss is the gift that keeps on giving

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on

by pookeyguru on Aug 30, 2008 2:52 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Ha!

E-Mu$$.

SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Aug 30, 2008 3:23 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Is it too late to start calling him e-Punk?

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on

by pookeyguru on Aug 30, 2008 3:28 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Other nominations

E-Miss
E-Wuss
E-Bust
A-Miss

SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Aug 30, 2008 3:29 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I know this would break TZ's heart

But E-bust would be a terrific fit for a program like Sac State. Musselman needs some national anonymity, and Sac State needs a guy who can recruit and be a slick talker. I think Muss would do well on both counts in regards to college.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on

by pookeyguru on Aug 30, 2008 3:46 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Agree with the B grade

and he’ll only get better. He does not have to deal with Ron being Ron this year. Maybe B+ or A- this year.

by KingsFan on Sep 2, 2008 8:01 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I agree with Reggie’s sentiments that Bobby’s best days are behind him and expect around 10 minutes a game for Bobby. Cisco and Hawes should be the primary players off the bench for the Kings.

BOOK IT!

by kingme18 on Aug 29, 2008 1:54 PM PDT   0 recs

Or Thompson.

I will be surprised if Thompson doesn’t see more action than Hawes. He looked quite a bit better in summer league, he’s older and more physically mature, and I’ll be pleasantly surprised if Hawes moves well enough on offense (off the ball) or defense to justify big minutes.

by cabz on Aug 29, 2008 3:05 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

20+ mpg for JT

That would be great … but is it realistic with Moore, Reef, K9 and Shelden? I know all of them except Moore might have more DNPs than games played but I don’t think Theus is bold enough to give Thompson so many minutes. Anyway.. I’m optimistic..

by ZenBaller on Aug 29, 2008 3:55 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Yes

Shareef may or may not be healthy. Last word is that he really isn’t healthy. K9 is not going to play, period. The team doesn’t believe Shelden Williams has any talent. Unless Thompson really screws up in camp or Reggie Theus is an idiot, Thompson is already the backup, almost by default. And he’s the backup to a pretty poor NBA starter.

by Carl on Aug 30, 2008 11:06 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I guess I missed

this press conference:

The team doesn’t believe Shelden Williams has any talent.

Williams started ahead of JT in summer league. So, unless I missed something, I think you’re wrong. Now JT may move ahead during training camp, but at this point, I think Williams has the 1st backup spot.

Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott

by Kfan in Korea on Aug 30, 2008 2:02 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I think too many people have written Shelden off myself

He’s a physical player who has to be used a certain way to be effective. Not every guy is going to be Shaquille O’Neal, but how many Shaq’s are there? The point is that sometimes guys get criticized for not being stars when they aren’t. Or in Shelden’s case, he often reaps the same criticism Joe Smith has for being drafted too high. Whose fault is that?

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on

by pookeyguru on Aug 30, 2008 2:55 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Agreed

If for no other reason than the dropoff from Miller to Hawes is much greater than the (presumed) dropoff from Mikki Moore to Thompson. Put another way, Mikki Moore isn’t a very good NBA starter, so Thompson can’t be much worse. Miller (of 2007-2008) is pretty good, so there is a natural dropoff when Hawes comes in.

by Carl on Aug 30, 2008 11:03 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Reggie can't win

Reggie got criticized last year for playing the vets and not givine the rookies enough playing time. Now, BJax, a 35 year old expiring joins the team, and eveyones talking about how he’s going to backup Beno & Martin. If I were Reggie, I’d be angry and confused too. Plus BJax is already campaigning for a spot on his coach team.

If Reggie and his coaches, can get some improvement at the 4 out of Williams & JT, and Hawes he’ll save his job. With improved rebounding and defense in the paint, and 4 starters returning from a team that averaged over 100 pts per game, he’ll probably get his contract extended.

"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom

by HighTops on Aug 29, 2008 4:18 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

He got criticized

For playing the vets in April when the Kings had no chance of the playoffs.

BOOK IT!

by kingme18 on Aug 29, 2008 6:37 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

...Which gave us our later draft pick

  Not complaining that we picked up JT now, but I’m fearful about next season. I’m thinking he’s going to play out Moore and Miller till their contracts expire. JT, as well as everyone else, will sit on the bench until there’s no one left to play. That’s why I hate Theus’ coaching style.

by CloudyEyes on Aug 29, 2008 7:22 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

If trying to win with the team you're given is a 'style'...

then that’s the style of coach I want. If you want to see the young guys out there, ask Petrie to support Theus (or any coach) with a long-term deal and make it clear to him (them) that their goal is to develop the young guys.

by cabz on Aug 29, 2008 10:52 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Actions

The Kings actions clearly and unambiguously indicate that their plan is to develop young players. You don’t trade Bibby and Artest away unless that’s your plan. Should Petrie have to explicitly tell Theus this? I think Reggie gets the message.

Everyone seems to think young players should have to earn their time, which is fair enough. I think Reggie should earn an extension by proving he can develop young players while not bad-mouthing every fan favorite on the team.

by Carl on Aug 30, 2008 11:10 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

With

SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Aug 30, 2008 11:38 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Communication
Should Petrie have to explicitly tell Theus this?

If Petrie and Theus aren’t talking at least enough for this topic to come up in conversation, then there are a lot bigger problems in the front office than whether or not Theus gets the message.

I would hope that thru communication between the GM and the Head Coach, our front office would be on the same page. Extension or no extension.

Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott

by Kfan in Korea on Aug 30, 2008 2:08 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I think it would take a monumental collapse and players telling the front office they won't play for Reggie anymore

Other than that there is no real reason overall to fire Reggie. He did a fairly good job, and sometimes I think we are all hurt (myself especially) with paralysis by analysis. Reggie did a fairly good overall job last season, and other than not playing Hawes when the front office would have liked, Reggie did a job that very few coaches could have topped. You miss your 2 best players for a third of the season, and you’re going to be finding it rather difficult to win 38 games. And it’s just that simple.

Do I think Reggie is guaranteed 100% to make it through the season? No, not exactly. But I think it’s very unlikely a new “long term” head coach will be available given Muss’ contract still on the books, and the likelihood that paying an interim guy will just add another coach to the expense of the coaching staff.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on

by pookeyguru on Aug 30, 2008 2:57 PM PDT   0 recs

Getting a DUI after the first preseason game may start him down that road...

Oh how I miss the Muss. I mean really I don’t know if i could draw another real life comparison to that.

There now I've met the 75 word count. -pookeyguru

by moproblemz on Sep 1, 2008 7:33 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

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