Should Brad Miller Retire a King?

by HighTops on Sep 17, 2008 12:53 PM PDT

I know , I know! The season hasn't started and MIller has two more years left on his comtract. But recently, in a discussion about Francisco Garcia, an insightful contributor to this blog posed this question while discussing renegotiating Cisco's contract.

Many contributors here at StR have said many times that Cisco has the making of the perfect 6th man. That passionate guy who comes of the bench to energize the team. One thing I would love to know is what HE thinks about this role?

and,

I don’t know if he has talked about this before somewhere, but I think the way Francisco sees himself fitting in the team (whether starting or 6th man) should be taken into consideration

So, although we probably won't find out whether Cisco see's himself, as some teams starter or 6th man until next summer when his contract negotiations begin. My mind wouldn't rest wondering what the other Kings players hopes & dreams are.

We're all aware of SAR's effort to return from knee surgury this season. And, in January there was a piece in the Bee, where Kenny Thomas was working out with a coach and CWebb, hoping to extend his career another 6 years.

But, what about Miller? How many more years does he plan to play? How many summers can he continue to punish his body in an effort to fight off time and maintain that awesome vertical leap? Health wise he's been luckier than most bigs. When he signs his next contract, he'll be 34. The money certainly won't be close to what he's getting now. Will it be enough to risk permanent injury? It's no fun hunting, fishing, and playing golf when you knee's ache. Just ask SAR or Joe Maloof.

Yes, there's still plenty of time for him to decide, but if he were to retire, then that moves the window of opportunity for the KIngs to trade him from next season to this season. And, the more notice that GP has, the better it will be. Who knows how many changes GP might have to make to his future plans regarding trades, free agency, & the draft..

Yes, we might lose the chance to pick up some value for his expiring contract. But, I think, I wouldn't mind if he choose to retire a King. You might say, I'd be proud.

(This is a FanPost from a member of the Sactown Royalty community. The views expressed come from the member, and not Sactown Royalty staff.)

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I believe

Brad has already said that he’d like to retire as a Pacer. That might require signing for the veteran’s minimum, if it’s possible at all. But that’s what he said.

From our standpoint, having him retire here would provide nothing but cap relief. If we have the chance to trade him anytime between this deadline and the next, for any combination of expiring contracts, draft picks and/or young talent, I think we have to make that deal. He’s not some fixture in Sactown that deserves to retire a King.

Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott

by Kfan in Korea on Sep 17, 2008 4:18 PM PDT 0 recs

I think expiring contracts is the best thing you'll get

But that’s just my opinion.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on

by pookeyguru on Sep 17, 2008 8:08 PM PDT up 0 recs

What's wrong with capspace?

I dont’ see what’s wrong with having that capspace once Brad’s contract and K9’s contract comes off the books. We’ve all heard about those big time 2010 free agents that we’d have the money to pursue. And I think a worst case scenario would be a sign-and-trade with another team where they wouldn’t have to take anything back (i.e. conditional 2nd round pick) in order to rid themselves of that player’s hefty contract.

by Shizzo on Sep 17, 2008 5:32 PM PDT 0 recs

meant "trade" not "sign-and-trade"

by Shizzo on Sep 17, 2008 5:33 PM PDT up 0 recs

Nothing wrong with

cap space, but if you can trade Miller for expiring contracts, draft picks and/or young talent like we did with Bibby and Artest then that is much better than just cap space. Cap space and Draft pick > cap space.

Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott

by Kfan in Korea on Sep 17, 2008 7:18 PM PDT up 0 recs

Miller = Bibby or Artest

Certainly, Miller won’t bring anywhere near the return that Artest did.

In Bibby’s case, we were trying to get out of a bad contract, and gave up a starting PG for Williams. Does Miller have the same value as Bibby? Or, is his expiring contract and the fact that he will resign for less, make him valuable to a team wanting to dump their bad contract on us? There certainly not going to give us something of value just for swapping expiring contracts. Which would seem to mean that getting anything of value will incur the lose of any cap space in 10/11.

I get the impression from reading everyones comments to my tongue in cheek post, that the majority feel that trading Miller will return little in value (second rounder at best). And, that the threat of lossing what value we might get should he retire, doesn’t necessitate moving him this year.

"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom

by HighTops on Sep 18, 2008 12:36 AM PDT up 0 recs

Depends on the team

Miller still has some skills. At least one of the top 20 centers in the league(was #15 center in PER last season). You don’t think a team like Orlando would take a serious look at Miller for a #1 and expiring contracts at the deadline if they thought he could help put them over the top? Seems like a no brainer to me.

Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott

by Kfan in Korea on Sep 18, 2008 5:36 AM PDT up 0 recs

Top twenty in 2 years?

Sounds like a good guy to have around. Maybe, we should just renegotiate his contract, keep him as the backup for Hawes, and we get the cap space to boot?

"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom

by HighTops on Sep 18, 2008 10:36 AM PDT up 0 recs

Miller > Bibby

Bibby’s decline as a player continues to consistently decline year to year. Miller on the other hand is resurging a bit after a couple of years of decline. Add to that the relative scarcity of skiller centers in the NBA. IMNSHO Miller is definitely a more valuable player than Bibby at this point. Whether that translates to actual trade value depends more on the need and desparation of the team looking for his skill set than it does on his current talent level.

by hozr on Sep 18, 2008 11:39 AM PDT up 0 recs

For the love of god, no!

K9 working out in hopes of making a run in the last years of his contract to push his value up? Say it ain’t so. Even if he did improve, I wouldn’t give a second of garbage time to him over JT or Greene.

by CloudyEyes on Sep 17, 2008 6:20 PM PDT 0 recs

That was last January Cloudy

When K9 was working out with Buzz Beamen, Shaq and Cwebb’s old Free Throw coach.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on

by pookeyguru on Sep 17, 2008 8:10 PM PDT up 0 recs

Shaq and CWebb's free throw coach?

Must be a genius.
Brad Miller retire as a king? eh, I think the correct answer is “Who cares?”

by Travis Mays Hayes on Sep 17, 2008 8:27 PM PDT 0 recs

Meh I do agree with that

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on

by pookeyguru on Sep 17, 2008 8:51 PM PDT up 0 recs

Watching Brad play two years ago,

I thought he had retired as a King.

SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Sep 17, 2008 9:05 PM PDT 0 recs

Just so you know Section (because I've been checking every other day or so)

Sham has finally updated their salary page to accurately reflect what this’s season salary structure looks like.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on

by pookeyguru on Sep 17, 2008 9:34 PM PDT up 0 recs

eff dat

Let the big dude get some more pay – the dolla is weak. The Heat will probably still be looking for a big center that can give the ball to Wade/Beasely/Chalmers because none of them will pass.

As Bill Walton should say:
Take the check, big fella, take the check!

Donte? Donte'! Donté?!?!
'spect da 'xtra E'

by iashwash on Sep 17, 2008 9:16 PM PDT 0 recs

Imagine the backdoor plays...

with DWade and Beasley cutting to the hole.

by Shizzo on Sep 17, 2008 9:22 PM PDT up 0 recs

I'd love to see that IW (Miller to Miami)

But the reality is getting that salary to work for both ends may be too difficult. But I fear a third team will have to get involved to make the whole salary pieces work.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on

by pookeyguru on Sep 17, 2008 9:39 PM PDT up 0 recs

Take the money & sit?

How much money will it take to resign Miller? Are we talking Vet minimum , MLE ,or what? Certainly, he won’t move into someones starting lineup. So, what’s the going rate for a 34 year old backup center. Who does he compare to that’s out there now?

"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom

by HighTops on Sep 18, 2008 12:46 AM PDT up 0 recs

Heck yes!

And the King her should retire is K-9.

au contra ire

by JediLeroy on Sep 18, 2008 3:52 AM PDT 0 recs

BMiller

I’ve said it before but I’ll go again. Miller is easily a top ten center. Without looking (!) name me ten Centers – period – who come close to his numbers.

He’s not everything you could hope for of course but only a couple of teams have that.

Another good King who gets a bad rap because of the win/loss record. If he had had ANYONE who could play physically with him around the basket …

One wretched (really – uuuhg!) 2006-07 season does not a career make.
oh well,

For full disclosure I am a Purdue Alum

eternal skeptical optimist

by lietothegirls on Sep 19, 2008 12:42 PM PDT 0 recs

Go Purdue

I don’t remember too many people say Miller was a bad center. In fact, I think RealGM has him in the top 10 centers. But as, Kfan pointed out

He’s not some fixture in Sactown

So, no one seems to know what his future plans are. I know he has a farm in Indiana. Likes to hunt & fish. And, I think he just had a kid. But, is he planning to play professional basketball when his current contract expires?

The other question was, "How much can he expect to sign for as a 34 year old FA center? Some suggest that he may have to sign for the vet minimum. Which means that any team that trades for him. between next summer and next years trade deadline, are going to want to know how much it will take to resign him and for how long. There are very few players that are in their 13 & 14 years, and most of them came right out of high school.

But, if he can only get vet minimum, he might just decide to go home to Indiana and raise his kids. In which case, his expiring contract would have little value to another team unless they could pawn off their long term contracts on us. Which of course takes us out of the 10/11 FA market.

"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom

by HighTops on Sep 19, 2008 4:45 PM PDT up 0 recs

The trade opportunity

that you are discounting is the one where a contender is willing to part with a young player and/or a draft pick(s) and expiring contract(s) for Miller to help them compete this year or next year. There would be no concern about resigning him. If he’s still good enough at that time, they can address it then. The idea would be to win now. In fact the shortness of the contract becomes a benefit.

Think Lakers. They traded Marc Gasol, 2(?) 1st rounders and Kwame Brown’s expiring contract for Pau Gasol. Or Atlanta, parts with Sheldon Williams, a 2nd rounder and expiring contracts for Bibby. There is no reason to think that a team wouldn’t make a similar deal for a season and a half of Miller if they thought he’d help them go deep(er) into the playoffs now.

Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott

by Kfan in Korea on Sep 19, 2008 6:15 PM PDT up 0 recs

Point taken

But I thought that I was clear when I said:

Which means that any team that trades for him. between next summer and next years trade deadline, are going to want to know how much it will take to resign him.

That a trade this year wasn’t a consideration. While your example relies on his being traded this year to guarantee 1 1/2 years of value for giving up something of value. But, I’m sure we could come up with unusual scenarios where some team may be willing to give up something of value even as late as the trade deadline next year.

All I’m saying is, if we don’t trade him this year ( and I don’t think we should ) that there’s no guarantee that we’ll get anything for him next year. Others agree.

Pookeyguru says
I think expiring contracts is the best thing you’ll get
But that’s just my opinion.

We can continue to discuss what his value will be in a year or two to see who will be correct but I’d rather not. I will say that I would be surprised if he signed a big contract, two years down the road because he would be one of the few big men to do that in his 13th year. I will also say that unless he has seriously mismanaged his money, that I don’t believe he will resign for the vet minimum.

"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom

by HighTops on Sep 19, 2008 11:01 PM PDT up 0 recs

Would work this year or next

only difference would be getting him for one run at the playoff instead of two. I still don’t think any possible future contract is or would be an issue. If a team wants to win now and thinks Brad can help, they trade for him, this year or next. The shortness of the contract is still a benefit.

If they want him beyond that you’d have to expect that they could sign him for a salary that is something less than what he’s making now.

It’s all conjecture. And if you were really talking about what we might do with Miller 11-17 months from now, then my response is: Worry about it next summer.

Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott

by Kfan in Korea on Sep 20, 2008 12:37 AM PDT up 0 recs

Kfan

t’s all conjecture. And if you were really talking about what we might do with Miller 11-17 months from now, then my response is: Worry about it next summer.

Well said sir.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on

by pookeyguru on Sep 20, 2008 6:22 PM PDT up 0 recs

What me worry?

My personal preference is not to trade Miller. And, if he still has some game two years from now, to resign him as a backup at the minimum he’ll take. That way we get a guy & some cap space.

My only purpose fpr the thread was to point out that Miller could retire. And, that if he did, the number of teams interested in signing him probably would be reduced.

"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom

by HighTops on Sep 21, 2008 1:20 AM PDT up 0 recs

Sorry but that seems to be a very circular argument

Just to state a hypothetical that will happen several years down the road assuming the best of all possibilities happen. Too much well-wishing there, and not enough cynicism/pessimism/living in the real world knowledge to please. The end. You lose!

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on

by pookeyguru on Sep 22, 2008 6:08 AM PDT up 0 recs