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Frontcourt Minutes

[An analysis of predicted backcourt minutes here.]

The area of grave concern ... the frontcourt! [thunder claps, damsels shriek, microwave buzzer goes off]

I won't break this down between the two positions, because it really doesn't matter.

Brad Miller: 32 minutes. Under Musselman in 2006-07, Miller only played 28 minutes a night. He was injured, ineffective and Coach Muss clearly didn't know how to use him properly. Reggie Theus does. Miller played 35 minutes a game last season. He was effective, healthy (mostly) and without question had the best season of any of the Sacramento bigs. I imagine he'll regress a bit; combined with the team's likely regression early and the obvious need to play these young bigs, Miller's minutes should decrease some. He'll still be the best big, of course. I don't think Petrie will trade him until next summer.

Mikki Moore: 27 minutes. Mikki saw 29 minutes per game last season. I imagine he'll start every game he's healthy for, either at the 4 or 5. (Kenny Thomas started the first two games last season, and Moore also came off the bench due to a medical emergency later in the season.) I think Theus, with more options, will have a quicker hook in the first half. Theus seems to like Jason Thompson and wants to prove he's done a good job with Spencer Hawes, so those outweight his fondness for vets. Still, Moore's a veteran presence, an energy guy and the best big defender on the team (a horrible, horrible truth).

Spencer Hawes: 22 minutes. Last season's minutes don't do much good -- he was a garbage time/end of the half guy part of the season, a legit first-off-the-bench rotation player for a few months, and the starter in April. Unless Thompson wows in preseason, Hawes has the job (third big) cinched. (And of course, for the first five games, he has "starting center" cinched, it would seem.) Even though Thompson is older and arguably more developed as a player, Hawes is the king of the youths here. Theus likes him a lot, it seems, and he's the de facto frontcourt savior, for better or worse.

Jason Thompson: 12 minutes. It's impossible to guess how Theus will play JT this year. Remember: the assistants set the lineups and playing time in Vegas, where Thompson played behind Shelden Williams. I think Theus (based on his lack of love for Williams and stated approval of JT) will go the other way. Once the staff realizes Thompson has more developed skills than Hawes, we might see JT get bigger minutes. (That should be, oh, St. Patrick's Day.) I fear November will see a lot of 2-3 minute box scores, though.

Shelden Williams: 3 minutes. Williams should get some early season minutes so the Kings can form a full opinion on the kid, and it looks like he'll have a chance to with Miller down for five. I suspect Williams will be the third big during that spell, but I imagine it won't take long for Thompson to overtake him in Theus' book. This cat's only shot at sticking in Sactown is to: blow people away in the preseason, or hope Moore or Miller get lost at the deadline and Thompson struggles to adapt. Otherwise, Williams is on his way to the trade bait barrel. (I'm a bit anxious to see what the team does on his 2009-10 option, which must be signed by the end of October. Unlike Quincy Douby, who has a really cheap one -- $2.1 million -- Shelden's is pricey: $4.3 million.)

I don't think we'll see Donté Greene move up a weight class but for spare moments. The small forwards (Artest, Salmons, Garcia) got quite a few power forward minutes last season, but I really hope we've seen the end of it: we don't have a fast point guard pushing the ball, and none of our bigs (save Williams and Kenny Thomas) rebound well enough to remove a ballast on the boards. (That's a whole 'nother subject, how this team isn't built for smallball.) If Salmons and Garcia do play PF at times, it will hurt Thompson and Hawes. Again, I think we're past that. There's some frontcourt depth here -- it's green, but it's here.

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Great posts

While you’ve probably nailed what Theus will do, here’s what I think Theus should do:

C: Miller (28) Hawes (20) [you really expect to see Miller and Hawes playing together much?]
PF: Moore (20) Thompson (18) Williams (10) [I expect to see Shelden showcased some, if only to still see what he can do; also bet that Thompson is ready to go early on]
SF: Salmons (32) Cisco (16) [or perhaps 13 with Greene getting all of 3 or so]
SG: Martin (35) Cisco (13)
PG: Beno (32) Jackson (10) Brown or Douby (6)

I guess my biggest difference would be finding more minutes for Thompson. I’d love to see Spencer get more too, but I don’t see Brad playing less than 28 (when not suspended, of course) and I’m not a huge fan of the Miller/Hawes frontcourt tandem. Greene, I suspect, will be too, um, green, to start out.

by LPKingsFan on Sep 9, 2008 11:52 AM PDT   0 recs

No More Douby at PG

The Douby as PG experiment is/should be done. Douby is a SG, not a PG. One of the reasons for Douby’s lack of success has been trying to pound the square peg Douby in the round PG hole. Enough already! Since this is about shoulds what they should do is solidify Douby’s position as a SG and evaluate him on his success or lack thereof there. FWIW, my gut feel is that Douby won’t make the grade and will be outta here before the year is out.

by hozr on Sep 9, 2008 12:32 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Thank you, hozr!

I couldn’t agree more. Douby is a scorer, not a PG or combo guard, so let him be an off guard and score!

by outrider on Sep 12, 2008 4:24 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I think that's pretty accurate

except I don’t see Douby playing any PG at all. If he gets any minutes, it will be short stretches at two. And I think 29 for Garcia and 32 for Salmons might be a little high. I really expect Greene to impress enough to earn some minutes—at least by halfway through the season. I think ten may be high for Williams as well. Especially if he comes in behind JT.

"Shut up and Coach!"
Vfettke

by SavageBeast on Sep 9, 2008 12:34 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

great analysis

Your prediction sounds very logical and I don’t think the reality will be a lot different unless Theus tries something revolutionary. Still.. I can’t believe we have 3 great 1st round picks (Hawes, Thomspon, Greene) and no one will get quality time.

Something tells me that if Hawes/Thompson show good signs early, Brad will be gone by February.

by ZenBaller on Sep 9, 2008 12:04 PM PDT   0 recs

If SAR becomes the big man's coach

then the scenario of Brad leaving by February becomes a tad more feasible. Otherwise I’m with ziller, Brad won’t get traded this season.

by hozr on Sep 9, 2008 12:34 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I also think that if Greene

looks anything like he did in preseason, Garcia or Salmons could be gone.

"Shut up and Coach!"
Vfettke

by SavageBeast on Sep 9, 2008 12:35 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

summer league != preseason

Donte? Donte'! Donté?!?!
'spect da 'xtra E'

by iashwash on Sep 9, 2008 3:33 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Yeah, Summer League that's what I meant

Too much time watching football.

"Shut up and Coach!"
Vfettke

by SavageBeast on Sep 9, 2008 8:31 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I think you can switch Moore and JT's minutes.

My personal feeling is that there is no time like the present for the Kings to go to Thompson. His skill sets match well with B-Miller’s and I think that Moore is better as an energy guy off the bench.
9 man rotation:
Starters-
Miller
JT
Salmons
Martin
Beno
Bench-
Hawes
Moore
Garcia
B-Jax (Brown getting minutes when Jackson gets injured)

S. Williams, Douby and Greene will get minutes in scrub time which should be plentiful.

Hot dogs, get your hot dogs.

by jjham15 on Sep 9, 2008 3:57 PM PDT   0 recs

most likely we all get disappointed by Reggie's actual rotation

but the next most likely to me is that we get disappointed by Spencer’s minutes, pleasantly surprised by JT’s, and forget about Greene altogether until April.

Life is every mammal's journey from very very wet to very very dry.

by Holmdel on Sep 9, 2008 5:23 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I don't like doing expectations for minutes exercises

Because I feel that minutes will be doled out the way the coach see’s fit. And Reggie Theus may change his MO mid-stream for all we know. Or may get a lobotamy or something.

What I do know is that if Greene is playing alot of minutes that means he developed far more quickly than anyone anticipated in the organization. I do hope, though, that the expectation that Hawes and Thompson will be average rebounders is just the expectation and not the reality.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on

by pookeyguru on Sep 9, 2008 5:01 PM PDT   0 recs

I really hope you're talking about Darrell from Coming to America JJ

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on

by pookeyguru on Sep 10, 2008 9:41 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Oh I get it now

And umm……yeah….yeah the same guy. I’m so stupid (and tired) that I don’t get anything right now.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on

by pookeyguru on Sep 10, 2008 10:04 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Why is everyone so down on Shelden Williams?

The guy had a great career at Duke. He had a outstanding rookie year in the NBA. And, with only two & a half months with the Kings, he put up season numbers & April numbers as good as Hawes. Then he goes on to have a better summer league than Hawes.

If you adjust for minutes per game, his numbers were as good as Millers’ & Moores’. He has more experience tha JT, & the guy is a monster with the arm span of a guy 7’4" tall. Yea, he probably can’t shoot the three and will never be the high post passer that Hawes will be. But he owns the paint, is strong enough to keep most big centers from getting to their spot, rebounds better than most everyone else on the team, & doesn’t draw anywhere near the number of fouls Moore gets.

When given the minutes he was able to put up a double double against the lakers. I can’t imagine that GP included him in the Bibby deal without thinking he had some value. Since everyone else in that deal is gone.

"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom

by HighTops on Sep 9, 2008 5:02 PM PDT   0 recs

Bibby's trade had alot to do with avoiding the luxury tax for this season too

That salary on the books for the season wasn’t something I think GP and the Maloof’s were prepared to do because Bibby has a “big” name.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on

by pookeyguru on Sep 9, 2008 5:05 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Shelden, welcome to StR!!

Nice post. Ready for preseason??

Life is every mammal's journey from very very wet to very very dry.

by Holmdel on Sep 9, 2008 5:25 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I'm not down on Shelden either

And I don’t quite understand why everyone is so down on a guy because he was drafted so high. Joe Smith had a similar problem, and has had a 10+ year career to show for it.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on

by pookeyguru on Sep 10, 2008 9:42 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

You do realize

That I wasn’t saying the Kings need to make a promise to Shelden right? I was just saying that the Kings need to give him a fair s hake (and I mean Reggie I guess at this point).

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on

by pookeyguru on Sep 14, 2008 8:44 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

You didn't really state it, but

I assume these minutes are your predictions for the entire season. I make that assumption because of lines like this:

Williams should get some early season minutes so the Kings can form a full opinion on the kid, and it looks like he’ll have a chance to with Miller down for five. I suspect Williams will be the third big during that spell, but I imagine it won’t take long for Thompson to overtake him in Theus’ book.

With that assumption in mind, your minutes breakdown looks ok to me, if you think Williams is a bust and JT is ready for prime time. I’m not willing to accept either of those conclusions at this point.

Didn’t Williams have a decent 1st half of his rookie year? Last season, Reggie complained that he was out of shape. So, if he is in shape this year, I think there is a chance that he regains his early career form.

As for JT, I hope he progresses quickly, but dude hasn’t even laced ‘em up once yet. Will have to see how he does during Brad’s suspension.

Optimistically, I’d hope that Spencer gets the “Artest at the 4” minutes plus his 14 or so from last season that you have him getting, and Williams shows that he deserves to keep his 12 from last year. Then JT develops quickly making Brad or Mikki expendable as we near the deadline.

Pessimistically, none of the 3 amigos step up and Reggie is forced to play Brad and Mikki 35-40 a night.

Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott

by Kfan in Korea on Sep 9, 2008 5:27 PM PDT   0 recs

Shelden Williams

A valuable piece for a team, in the same way that Reggie Evans or Eduardo Najera or Danny Fortson can be a valuable piece for a team. He has to easily be the most physical player on this team, right?

Now, the reality is that he will eventually fall behind JT in the rotation. The question then becomes can you deal off Moore, or does Williams languish as the 3rd man at the 4? He will probably never be a big minutes guy, but it’s nice to have a guy that can leave a bruise or two on an opponent. $4.3 million for 2009-10 is on the edge (maybe over the edge) of his value. It will be interesting to see what the KIngs do.

SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Sep 9, 2008 9:03 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Can play the 4 & 5

But maybe better suited for the 5. Whether he plays the 4 with Miller or Hawes at the elbow, or plays the 5 with JT and/or Greene’ playing from the outside in he could be a valueable backup.

With K9 attached to the bench at the hip & SAR of the verge of a medical retirement, we’re basicly down to a 5 man rotation at the PF/C positions. But, there is no reason to trade Moore until all the rookies show that they can match his production. Your probably never going to get anyone of value to this team even if you packaged him with Douby. You might pull off a deal like Denver did with Camby, but even with SAR’s salary & Moores’ gone, your barely under the salary cap and therefore, can’t sign anyone else. So, unless someone comes banging at the door, offering someone we really need, I say keep him as a security blanket. With a $2M buy out next year, he’ll be easy to move before the trading deadline or next summer.

"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom

by HighTops on Sep 10, 2008 12:18 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

3rd man @ the 4 + 3rd man @ the 5 = few minutes

SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Sep 10, 2008 7:12 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

How about Moore as the 3rd man.

Selden has the low post defense and rebounding ability that everyones been crying for and his jump shot is better than Moores’. The guy played 4 years for coach K at Duke. The same coach that taught the USA team to play defense.

Williams has got the basic defensive skill, was a shoot blocker and rebounder in college when he got minutes and could perfect his timing. He’s the most NBA ready to come out of the last 2 drafts. Given the minutes Williams can produce better than Moore. And, unless you plan to keep Moore past this year, let Moore move to the #3 guy at the 4/5, let Sheden start, and let JT back him up. If JT eventually beats out Shelden as the starter, Williams is the kind of team guy who can play the backup for a long time.

He has no bad knees,so with some training to develop his offense, I can see him having a long career. I’d really like to see him set some screens or picks on the guys chasing Martin through the paint.

"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom

by HighTops on Sep 10, 2008 11:01 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

MIkki

Is a proven veteran and a high energy guy that has spent his career coming off the bench but has proven to be at least capable to start. Ideally he can go back to his bench role at some point during the season.

Shelden hasn’t proven anything to anybody. I’m not saying he won’t. I’m saying he hasn’t. And to put him ahead of Mikki would be exploring uncharted depths of stupid.

Let's go home.-Kevin Martin

by LeaguePassAddict on Sep 11, 2008 7:26 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I would put him ahead of Mikki cuz he doesn't have a love of snakes

That’s good times in my books LPA.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on

by pookeyguru on Sep 14, 2008 8:47 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Ophidiophobe.

Let's go home.-Kevin Martin

by LeaguePassAddict on Sep 16, 2008 3:50 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Guilty

After all I don’t like Dick Cheney or Karl Rove either. Actually, that’s insulting to snakes. So I apologize.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on

by pookeyguru on Sep 16, 2008 3:55 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Mikki vs. Shelden

You can’t give Williams the nod based on potential or draft pedigree. He has to earn his minutes, the same way that Mikki Moore has earned his minutes, by practicing his arse off and being effective on the occasions that he actually gets game minutes.

SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Sep 11, 2008 7:44 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

They both proved something to me

Mikki proved he has hands like bricks. He can’t catch or pass. He has no low post offense, has an good 15’ jump shot that he seldom uses, and knows how to take a charge. But, he gets called for more blocking penalties than he picks up charges, which is one of the reasons he leads the entire NBA in fouls. And he’s too slow to provide any weak side defensive help.
Yes, he is 7’ tall & at 32 years of age he still has some hops. Which explains the 8ppg he gets from offensive rebounds & the stuffs he gets moving to the basket if the pass is perfectly place and he doesn’t have to change his stride or put the ball on the floor.

“Mikki is a proven veteran and a high energy guy that has spent his career coming off the bench”

Yes, he is a career 6ppg & 4rpg bench player. And, there is probably no other team in the NBA other than the Kings where he would have started last year.

But, being a great team mate and an enthusiastic player isn’t going to get the Kings to give him $6M next year. He’ll probably get traded along with Douby, or moved like Denver did with Camby, or have his contract bought out and allowed to sign at the veteran minimum somewhere else.

Now,as far as Williams proving to you or earning the minutes, how’s he going to do that unless he’s given the opportunity to play and you won’t take into consideration what he’s already done.. I think his potential and draft pedigree have been proven, just not entirely in Sac. His rookie year at Atlanta was great and at the end of that year he was named rookie of the month. He came over to us in Feb. And, with only a month and a half to pick up our system, he put up number as good as any big on the team. Then he has a good summer league, and you want him to prove himself.

Maybe I’m all wet, but with Millers suspension, I believe Williams get major minutes. And, by the time Miller comes back both JT and Williams will continue to see major minutes.

"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom

by HighTops on Sep 11, 2008 3:35 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

(Sigh)

If Mikki is everything that you say that he is (and is not), what does it say about Williams that he can’t beat Moore out? And make no mistake, Theus is going to play the guys that give him the best chance of winning games.

How do players earn the opportunity to prove themselves? First, they show it in practice. Second, they take advantage once they are in the game. Quincy Douby is a great example of a guy that earned his chance by shooting lights out in practice, but then he couldn’t take advantage once he got some burn. Kevin Martin is an example of a guy that earned his chance by improving at practice, and then he took advantage of his game minutes. Justin Williams is an example of a guy that never showed it in practice (esp. his ability to grasp rotation defense), so he never got a chance in games.

As I mentioned earlier, I like Shelden Williams and I think that he can play a role on this team. But he finished last year #4 on the big man depth charts (behind Miller/Moore/Hawes), and now Jason Thompson has been added to the mix. That does not bode well for Shelden, unless he earns, earns, earns his way past Mikki Moore.

SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Sep 11, 2008 7:28 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I guess we both have a different Idea of what earn means.

I do love the way some fans are loyal to the guys that put out an effort the previous year. But for me when guys come to training camp, each and everyone needs to prove that he’s better than the next guy before he EARNS his minutes.

Now, I’m saying that I think that a 25 yr old with the physical skills and training of Williams, should be able to beat out a soon to be 34 yr old veteran backup like Moore. Of course, if I’m wrong it’s no skin off my nose, but it’s a major problem for the Kings because that means they have to find another big before they can release Moore or Miller.

As to why Williams couldn’t beat out Moore last year. Shelden didn’t get major minutes until April. Moore got major minutes in April also. But, who’s to say, that if Miller weren’t injured that Shelden wouldn’t have beaten out Moore for playing time. Their numbers weren’t that different.

Let me ask you. If Moore had been traded to Atlanta in Feb. instead of Williams coming here, " How many minutes would Moore have gotten playing behind Josh Smith & Al Horford"

"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom

by HighTops on Sep 11, 2008 10:45 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Williams

could never earn minutes in Atlanta, in spite of being their 1st round pick (#5 overall).

To answer the question, Moore would play behind Horford and Smith…just like Williams did. So this proves what? That the Hawks have two guys that can play at the 4 that are better than anyone we currently have. OK, point made. Beyond that, I’m not sure why that is relevant to this discussion.

I would rather see Shelden Williams play than Mikki Moore. We know that Moore is not the future of the Kings, while we don’t quite know about Williams. But (and this is the only point that I’m trying to make here so I will try to be clear) Reggie Theus is going to play the guys that earn their time and give him what he as perceives their best chance to win games. At the end of last season Mikki Moore was ahead of Shelden Williams on the depth charts at the 4. Brad Miller and Spencer Hawes were ahead of him at the 5. The KIngs spent their 1st round pick on a PF. This is without dispute. Therefore, it is up to Shelden Williams to come to camp and take minutes away from someone else.

You can love Shelden Williams the same way that we all loved Justin Williams. If Williams does not come into camp and startle some people he will not play big minutes. If he is the same Shelden Williams that he has been for his first two years in the league, he will play Shelden Williams minutes, which to this point have been measured in seconds.

SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Sep 12, 2008 7:06 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

An interesting point...
We know that Moore is not the future of the Kings, while we don’t quite know about Williams.

I think that this could be directly related to Shelden’s option year (i.e. if the Kings pick it up or not before the season).

If they do pick it up, then this seems like a good time to see what Shelden can do (forcing Reggie’s hand if necessary by cutting all ties with Moore), and whether he’ll be a bench player or the starter that JT will have to outperform for the job.

If they decline his option, then my guess is that nothing changes and they (possibly) try to resign him to a lesser deal to be a back-up.

If nothing else, it would be interesting to see what would happen without Moore eating up so many minutes in the front court, but dumping him early – before we know what we really have with JT/Shelden – would probably be conceding any possible run at the playoffs (however likely/unlikely that chance is currently).

by smgmatt on Sep 12, 2008 8:08 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Glass half full or half empty

I haven’t figured out this paste & clip thing so please bear with me.

On your 1st statement involving the Atlanta minutes, I’d like to point out that Williams got the same amount of minutes in Atlanta as Hawes got here during their rookie years. And neither one of them got as many minutes as Moore did last year. I’m not suggesting that either one has earned more minutes. I’m saying I believe both will get more minute this year because they both are better players than Moore.

And, I totally agree with your statement about Reggie going with the player best able to help him win. In fact, I think that is pretty obvious. Where I think we differ is in the notion that where players finished in last years depth chart has anything to do with where they will end up this year.

Your view IMHO is that the Starter has to be beaten to lose his position, and my view is that the Starter has to prove he deserves to be the Starter every year. Same view but different sides of the same coin.

"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom

by HighTops on Sep 12, 2008 1:05 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Section's point

Is that Shelden obviously wasn’t better than Moore at the end of the season, or Theus would have played him more than Mikki. He was pushing for as many wins as he could get, AND he was being told flat out to play the young guys.

If Mikki was logging (WAY) more minutes than Shelden at the end of the season, you can attribute it ONLY to the idea that Theus didn’t see enough talent/heart/work ethic/take your pick to put him ahead of Mikki on the depth chart. Or Hawes, his summer performance notwithstanding.

So you can SAY that Shelden is a better player than Mikki, but I still go back to my original premise.

Shelden hasn’t PROVEN anything. Not here, not in Atlanta.

Let's go home.-Kevin Martin

by LeaguePassAddict on Sep 12, 2008 6:19 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Maybe Reggie is enamored with hustle guys

Because there is really no reason to play Mikki Moore major minutes late in a lost season when you have a potential young talent sitting on the bench. Mikki Moore is a known quantity, I’m not sure Shelden is.

Kevin Pritchard has Chuck Norris tied up in the trunk of his car.

by otis29 on Sep 12, 2008 5:41 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Agreed

Adding that Reggie is also enamored with veterans over young players. Reggie seems to have no patience for mistakes, which young players tend to make and veterans don’t.

Shut up and Coach

by Carl on Sep 13, 2008 11:07 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Yeah I agree with the evaluation

that Shelden has the ability to be an important player on a good team because of his physicality, rebounding, and shot blocking. But – like the guys 214 mentioned – there will be a thin line for Shelden between being a great hustle and strength guy who is humble enough to come off the bench, and being a limited role player with an unwieldy contract. As 214 also noted, Shelden is currently toeing that line at $3.4M. Unless he locks up the starting PF position during JT’s development phase, or the Kings have a realistic shot at returning to championship contention in 2010/11, I can’t imagine paying over $5M to keep him around.

Remember, the Chuck Hayes’s of the world quickly become Kenny Thomas’s when teams get too comfortable with their role players and overpay them.

by furious.d on Sep 11, 2008 8:46 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Overpaying is bad

I get it, and isn’t that why we traded Bibby? We found out that Beno could do the same job, cheaper. Now, I’m saying that “I think” that Williams can do as good of a job as Moore. So, give him the minutes so that we can be sure because Williams get $4M and Moore gets $6M next year.

What have we got to lose? Moore’s only a 8ppg and 6 rpg but career wise he’s 6 & 4. Moore’s only major stat catagorys are that he lead the NBA in foul and that he’s 6th among C/F in turnovers. How much worst can Williams be?

"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom

by HighTops on Sep 11, 2008 11:04 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Now, now let's be fair

Moore led the league in shooting percentage in 2006-7. His shooting percentage last year was 57%. And why are fouls a bad thing as long as they’re smart fouls. I remember one game after Moore gave a hard foul to some guy going to basket the guy complained to Moore “Why’d you foul me” and Moore’s response was “I get 6 a game and I don’t to keep the ones I don’t use” . Fouls are a tool of the game and it appears that Mikki treats them that way.

I do share the same concern that bigs like Shelden should get a fair shot at earning minutes of playing time. It appears that Theus doesn’t like Shelden for some reason, even ziller’s commented on it. Yeah, Theus gave reasons for not playing Williams but there’s an underlying concern that Theus may not give him a fair evaluation.

I also agree with you that GP had Williams included in the Bibby deal to get us a young big to evaluate without too many strings attached, it wasn’t all about dumping salary. On the surface it doesn’t appear that Theus has followed through on that plan.

by hozr on Sep 12, 2008 5:41 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

That Fouls statement was some reach wasn't it.

I do get carried away trying to make my point sometimes.

I do get frustrated with some of the logic. Minute per game = talent. Mikki gets30mpg & Williams gets 12mpg, so Williams must go. While Miller gets 35mpg & Hawes gets 12mpg, and Hawes is the Center of the Future and Miller must go.

Yea, I read that comment by Ziller that Reggie had something against Williams. I’ve never read anything like that, so I’m not sure where that came from.

Well, all conjecture aside, we’ll find out for certain by the end of the 1st week of Nov. The Kings have to decide whether or not to exercise the option years of Williams & Doubys’ contracts by Oct 31st. And, with Miller suspended the first 5 of the regular season, I expect Williams & JT to get a lot of playing time through the first 15 games including preseason.

Whoever see the most bench time after then will probably be traded by the deadline.

"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom

by HighTops on Sep 13, 2008 1:32 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

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