Who's behind door number 1?
by NewYorkKingsFan on Jan 18, 2009 10:05 PM PST
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PrintI think the trade talk will be heating up in the coming days, so I wanted to ask you all intelligent kings fans about the top three stars that have a realistic chance of being in a King's uniform by the trade deadline.
I am thinking one scenario is Shawn Marion. I personally don't know why we would do this, as he is a free agent at the end of the year, and then if we don't resign, our value just walks. But Marion is a damn good player and he brings a defensive presence who would team well with Hawes/JT. A lot would depend on whether or not the Maloofs would open up the checkbook to resign him at the new Economy value, but we could make an offer.
Marion is a legit star who would pair well with the Kings, including Martin. He also is a star waiting to shine, so hopefully he would get his chance to make this team good again..... (Although he is trying to do that with the Heat now, so coming to Sac wouldn't make him too happy, I'm thinking).
Door number 2 would be tougher. We definitely need a point guard, and we would have to give up someone good to get someone good, so this might be one of those trades where you don't really get better on all levels. So, are you ready for..... Andre Miller?
I know, I know. He is a Sixer, and most of our trades wtih Philly have been busts, but it is worth a shot. Miller can play, and he is in a contract year too, I think. Don't know who we would lose to get him, and he might not be a good fit with this team, but he can drop some dimes, which is something our current point guards seem particularly challenged night in and night out....
And door number 3, you ask? Well, how about Tayshaun Prince? He would boost our defensive presence and he also has been getting some assists as well as scoring, and it would send a message to the team that defense is important. I know it would never happen in the Petrie world, where offense rules, but it is a dream!
Alternate list: Antawn Jamison. That dude can play, and the Wizards aren't going anywhere this year, so maybe they would be willing to part with him for rebuilding's sake, and the right deal.
Okay, so all of this is just conjecture, and only half of the trade equation, but I just thought I would put it out there.....
Go Kings!
(This is a FanPost from a member of the Sactown Royalty community. The views expressed come from the member, and not Sactown Royalty staff.)
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so, ummmm,
Shawn Marion is a bag-of-bones. I won’t argue that. The analysis has done by other people better than I could
Andre Miller is 32. By the time this team is ready to do anything, he’ll be done. He’s also the only thing keeping the Sixers running machine gunning, so I doubt heavily he’d be let go.
I like Tayshaun. I think he’s an important part of the equation for a Championship team. But Joe Dumars also knows this, so I don’t see why you’d bring up the topic.
Antwan Jamison is too old and costs too much.
Pretty much the only replies you’ll get.
Donte? Donte'! Donté?!?!
'spect da 'xtra E'
by iashwash on Jan 18, 2009 11:09 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
Basically
What this Jerzey Island guy said.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
yep +2
So imitate the action of the tiger!
Stiffen the sinews, summon up the blood,
Disguise fair nature with hard-favoured rage.
- lend the eye a terrible aspect,
Now set the teeth....and teach them how to war.
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Jan 19, 2009 1:06 PM PST up reply actions
At this point I don't think we should be looking at anyone
that is older than Martin. Kevin will be 26 in a couple of weeks. If it takes us 3 years to get ready to think about contending, that’ll make him 29 and starting to slide a bit, with a 2-3 year window. When we are close to being ready to contend is when you start looking at guys who are 28+ to complete the picture, not when you’re still 2-3 years away, best case.
My time line:
09-10 – more of the same
10-11 – a run at the playoffs
11-12 – a shot at home court 1st round ( Kevin is 29, here’s where you look for those final pieces)
12-13 – next stop “title-town”
15-16 – 4-pete!
Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott
Yeah
I would only say that a player like Sheed is someone I would make an exception for.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
someone
who would be here to make a quick buck, do some last hurrah, then leave when he’s old, doesn’t give a crap no more and couldn’t care less about what the kids these days are doing?
I remember you talking of trading for Sheed, or maybe signing him this summer, but I don’t see why Sheed does it. Oh yeah, because we’ll pay the most. But is Sheed the type of personality you want? idk… I should stop being lazy and search for it.
here it is: http://www.sactownroyalty.com/2009/1/6/710289/a-noodling-exodus-of-a-dog
meh. still don’t see it. We’re basically getting Sheed as a stopgap because we would have no better stopgaps, and the fact that he only has three years left actually fits in our desires. But at 7-9 mill a year, you don’t think Detroit would pay that? Expound pookey, expound.
The team needs to sign a guy for three years that would bring some excitement and a winning attitude. Why not Jason Kidd? AI?
Donte? Donte'! Donté?!?!
'spect da 'xtra E'
You want me to actually explain in detail why I think Sheed would work here?
I mean, lord, cmon, now, you..want…details…of…ramblings?
Basically, it was just noodling, and there’s probably no chance of hell. If there is any chance of hell, there’s a greater chance Petrie doesn’t like him. So, in a sense, it was just noodling.
No on Kidd and AI. Kidd’s way too old, and will be looking for a ring I bet. AI ditto. That isn’t there for the Kings, but who knows? (I realize people would say why wouldn’t Sheed fall into the same category. Again, folks, I was just noodling. Throwing it out there. All that was.)
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
how about hinrich?
he’s back from his injury, the bulls already have their PG of the future in Rose…they need a center, and we’re trying to ship Miller.
yeah, yeah, hinrich has 4 years left at 10mil a season, but i think this kid could be the kings future PG. he is more of a pure point (which would work well alongside martin), and he’s a good defender, easily an upgrade over udrih.
could work…
To reiterate what I just said here
I don’t think the Kings will take on Hinrich without giving up Udrih.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
Agreed
We already have the hydra. We don’t need the Hi-drih, too. The two would cost $16 million a year for the next three and a half years, and Hinrich is really not much better than Udrih, if better at all.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
by section214 on Jan 19, 2009 8:15 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
oh i would think if we get hinrich that udrih is expendable…though i would like him shipped away in any deal that would land hinrich.
as for hinrich not being better than udrih, i think we highly disagree on that point.
I agree about Hinrich being better than Udrih
It’s always the money that turned me off. But, if you’re going to draft a young PG, why not bring Hinrich around. You’re going to need a player with buffer room to get the deal done.
But, folks, this is part of an impending Brad Miller deal to Chicago, and not necessarily about a straight up swap, which is what Bulls fans would prefer, and Kings fans not.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
Agent Zero
Wiz are probably frustrated over his inability to play after his big new contract, plus that group (Jamison, Butler, and Arenas) don’t seem to be enough to get you to the promised land when healthy. His contract is huge, but he would be the best player no our team by a long-shot.
by longtimelistenerfirsttimecaller on Jan 19, 2009 9:41 AM PST reply actions
crap...
Arenas is a base-year comp player… making any trade for him nearly impossible.
by longtimelistenerfirsttimecaller on Jan 19, 2009 9:45 AM PST up reply actions
I realize I'm crazy
But I wouldn’t trade Tough Juice for Donte right now. Just wouldn’t. Donte is too young, and Tough Juice too much mileage.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
7th year in the league
455 games played, 16509 minutes played, regular season. 25 games played, 1019 minutes postseason.
For comparison: Tayshaun Prince: 7th year in the league, 16251 regular season minutes, 491 regular season games, 114 playoff games, 4282 playoff minutes.
Carlos Boozer: 7th year in the league, 13227 minutes, 407 regular season games, 29 playoff games, 1095 playoff minutes.
Antawn Jamison: 11th year in the league, 27,756 regular season minutes, 756 regular season games, 31 playoff games, 1151 playoff minutes.
Shawn Marion: 10th year in the league, 26,839 regular season minutes, 711 regular season games, 65 playoff games, 2641 playoff minutes.
Kevin Martin: 5th year in the league, 8113 regular season minutes, 277 regular season games, 6 playoff games, 197 minutes.
Martin has unusually low minutes due to being an unknown quantity his first season and coming in sparingly off the bench. Chris Paul has logged more minutes than him.
Chris Webber when traded to Kings
5 seasons played, 10678 regular season minutes played, 288 regular season games played, 6 playoff games played, 215 playoff minutes played.
Chris Webber was 25
MItch Richmond was 32. This is a different type of swap than Caron Butler for Donte Greene/Douby/Shelden Williams.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
I love the idea of Caron Butler on this team
I don’t think there’s any chance of Washington doing this.
I understand the idea that Wash won’t want to pay three aging stars, flirt with the Lux Tax, and be last place. But Butler is the only one of him, Arenas, and Jamison who is definitely not overpaid.
A borderline allstar who plays tough defense at a position of need, costs $10M a year, and is in his physical prime is definitely on my Kings wishlist. I doubt that Washington is so desperate that they’ll give him up for a totally raw (if talented) prospect and a B- version of the player they’re giving up.
That said, I understand Pookey and Kfan’s apprehensions about older players. I just think that the Kings’ growth could be accelerated with a veteran, defensive-minded leader like Butler. Personally, I would throw in the Rox pick to get this done.
A trade is coming
Its hard to guess whether that trade will be to add some young promising pieces or simply open cap space.
Fans and season ticket holders are going to have a hard time if nothing comes back that seems to make the team better for the future – so its a tough spot.
They need to rebuild but need to sell tickets, they need to make fans think the future is coming. Right now its hard for most people to see an upswing approaching.
Its a tough spot.
So imitate the action of the tiger!
Stiffen the sinews, summon up the blood,
Disguise fair nature with hard-favoured rage.
- lend the eye a terrible aspect,
Now set the teeth....and teach them how to war.
Henry V iii
So who else do you think Petrie would sign?
I actually agree with you all for the most part, and you are right that Antawn is getting up there in years as well as Andre Miller….
The real issue I would ask is, who can we get who actually improves our team without us losing too much in exchange….
We have to do something! We need some sort of winning action here, and the current crew is not even close to challenging the way everyone thought we might at the beginning of the season!
Ricardo from Cherry Valley
"I hope Reggie is getting ready to earn his money this season! He's about to hit the big time without his go-to guy!"
by NewYorkKingsFan on Jan 19, 2009 3:32 PM PST reply actions
It may be a fantasy
But I’ve said several times that I think there’s a chance Utah might give up Boozer, as they can’t re-sign both him and Millsap (or have said they won’t go far over the tax). As they’re weak at the 2 and 3 IMO, Salmons and his bargain contract and good D, may look pretty good to them. Mikki could give them decent back-up big minutes – and score some dunks with DWilliams dishing him the ball + his 2 mil buyout next yr.
Bonus for us, Boozer won’t play for another 15-20 games, so not too many wins against draft day.
So imitate the action of the tiger!
Stiffen the sinews, summon up the blood,
Disguise fair nature with hard-favoured rage.
- lend the eye a terrible aspect,
Now set the teeth....and teach them how to war.
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Jan 19, 2009 4:07 PM PST up reply actions
lttg
has the only idea within the realm of possibility.
Honestly, this is the only way I could think of getting Boozer: give him a short, crazy large contract. Two years at 20 million a pop. Eff it. He’s here to keep the team winning, but as soon as we can find replacements, he’s outie. We’ll still have his bird rights if we feel he can fit in the longterm, but if JT/Hawes/MagicalPick can replace him, we let him go on his way.
But that is absolutely ridiculous and unheard of in the NBA and no agent in his right mind would agree to that.
Donte? Donte'! Donté?!?!
'spect da 'xtra E'
Salmons for 1/3 year of Boozer
Boozer doesn’t want to play here, and unless we do a sign & trade, there’s no guarantee we can resign him. And, if we did do a s&t, we’d have to add another player which Utah doesn’t have room for. Yes, we have bird rights which means, we get to match the best offer he gets. So, if he gets an offer for say $100M for 5 years, will we match it? If you don’t, you give Salmons away for nothing and how stupid is that. If we did match all offers, we’d look really stupid if we won the lottery and could of had Griffin for 20 percent of that.
Personally, I’d rather trade for cap space and get in a bidding war for Millsap. Trade for cap space and your draft position is secure. After the draft you go shopping, based on what you get in the draft. Or, if nothing great is available, you back fill the rookies with role players on 1 year contracts and go shopping again in 2010.
If something great came along, I’d be ok with it. But, I’m not looking forward to another 20 win season next year, so if John stays that’s ok too. I don’t anticipate his value dropping before next years trade deadline. Although, his ETO does worry me a bit.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
HT - The sign and trade would come
after we have him – as few teams would have the $$ under the cap next year. I’d also be willing to pay the guy 15-16yr mil for four.
1. With him here, we’d start looking pretty attractive to other FA.
2. He doesn’t want to play here? (how do you know?) He went to Salt lake. Have you been to salt lake? Its pretty much like sac with worse weather.
3. If we don’t think the Salmons / KM combo is working long term, why not use him to take a gamble that could really pay off?
4. Hey, I’m putting this out there as I said, as a gamble. I know thats what it is. He really wants Miami (I think) one of the few teams that might have the cap space next year , if we had his Bird rights, we could possibly work them over pretty good(?).
5. Something to shake things up
So imitate the action of the tiger!
Stiffen the sinews, summon up the blood,
Disguise fair nature with hard-favoured rage.
- lend the eye a terrible aspect,
Now set the teeth....and teach them how to war.
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Jan 19, 2009 9:25 PM PST up reply actions
I like him for 15 mil for 4yrs
But, I don’t think that’s enough.
I said s&t before so we know exactly how much he will cost. I don’t think a s&t after will work. A team like Miami will have the cap space to give him up to $20M which is the max anyone can offer unless there is a s&t. But, no one is going to offer him more than that anyways so a s&t isn’t necessary. So, unless they want to dump their garbage on us there’s no reason for them to do a s&t.
I don’t personally know that he doesn’t want to come here. But, he has been quoted as saying that he wants to go to a contender and wants a ring. It’s also known that he has a home in Miami. Being a UFA he doesn’t have to agree to a s&t. If he wants to go to Miami, he just has to get them to make an offer we won’t match. $17-$18M for 5 years with an 8 percent raise each yr comes out to $95-$100M. So, the question we have to ask is, would we match it. If we don’t we end up with nothing.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
And matching it wouldn't matter if he
wanted to go there. We’d have to beat it by enough to make him change his mind. Also factoring into this is that I believe there is no personal state income tax in Florida, so that’s like a 10% “raise” compared to a California contract.
If he wants to go to Miami, and they want him there, it’s over.
Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott
by Kfan in Korea on Jan 20, 2009 4:53 AM PST up reply actions
That's true of Texas and Washington too
State income tax is not that big.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
CBA makes allowances for state taxes & Canada
We’re allowed to offer more to compensate for taxes & currency exchange rates.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
Really?
Since when.,
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
Senor Coon's answer to that very question
Is answered here. In no place did he mention anything about other states being able to offer extra to compensate for the tax disadvantage.
For those who don’t feel like clicking on the link:
Are teams really competing on a level playing field? Since the tax rate is different in the different states and Canada, don’t the teams in a more “tax friendly” state have an advantage over the other teams?
Yes they do. For example, since Florida has no state income tax, an offer from Orlando will offer a higher net income than the same offer from Los Angeles. However, the league added a regulation to help neutralize the tax disadvantage of Canadian teams. All teams are permitted to offer a signing bonus of up to 20% (see question number 62). For U.S. residents in Canada, this bonus is taxed at just 15%. Using this bonus, Canadian teams can nearly achieve tax neutrality.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
Thanks for the correction
I guess I misremembered ( if that’s a word). But, I do believe that some states like California tax players from other states when they play there. I’m not sure which states do it, but since 1/2 or your games are spent outside your home state, some taxes will be paid by everyone.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
Yeah that's true
But, I would bet taxes are paid depending on where your team is located.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
I believe this is true
regarding California taxing players playing here. But this:
but since 1/2 or your games are spent outside your home state
is not true. Half your games are spent away from home, but not outside your home state, unless your team is the only one in its state. The Kings have road games at GS, LAC and LaL that are all also in California.
Also, I doubt that California doesn’t tax Kings players on pay “earned” outside California. I would guess Martin gets taxed on all of his salary by California and Howard gets taxed on 4/82 of his salary by California(one road game vs each California team). Huge difference.
Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott
by Kfan in Korea on Jan 20, 2009 3:24 PM PST up reply actions
Yeah I would bet that's how it goes
But, I would imagine players are only responsible to what states they “live” in.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
I remember something quite a while back
about NBA players and this issue. I think it may have been California trying to get taxes from out of state players. It was a long time ago and I don’t really know how it played out.
I don’t think it’s that important, because if you lived in a state without a state tax you’d still get a 41 game break no matter what. If it was a 10 mil contract and you save 10% on half of it, that’s a 1/2 a mil per year bonus, minimum.
And the state tax is an issue hurting Sacramento’s chances at a FA, since California’s state tax is one of the highest.
Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott
by Kfan in Korea on Jan 20, 2009 4:51 PM PST up reply actions
Miami won't have the money
if they do that marion/J O’neil thing being talked about ( I don’t think).
So imitate the action of the tiger!
Stiffen the sinews, summon up the blood,
Disguise fair nature with hard-favoured rage.
- lend the eye a terrible aspect,
Now set the teeth....and teach them how to war.
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Jan 20, 2009 2:36 PM PST up reply actions
Probably why it's still being talked about
There is no way in hell Miami is going to kill their 2009 cap space.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
They may not want boozer
whatever he wants – if they think Beasley really is a PF. I’m not convinced.
He look more like Corliss than anyone I’ve seen since and i think he’ll have a similar good career, at first as an undersized 4, then a 6th man – unless he moves to the 3 soon and can hit the outside shot.
So imitate the action of the tiger!
Stiffen the sinews, summon up the blood,
Disguise fair nature with hard-favoured rage.
- lend the eye a terrible aspect,
Now set the teeth....and teach them how to war.
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Jan 20, 2009 3:34 PM PST up reply actions
Funny you bring up Corliss
I got something about that.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
A somewhat better Corliss
( I may have been underrating Beasley some)
whattaya got?
So imitate the action of the tiger!
Stiffen the sinews, summon up the blood,
Disguise fair nature with hard-favoured rage.
- lend the eye a terrible aspect,
Now set the teeth....and teach them how to war.
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Jan 20, 2009 4:25 PM PST up reply actions
You'll see
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
i always get antsy this time of year waiting and hoping to see if GP makes a move before the trade deadline, but thinking realistically, i just don’t see anything happening this season. the kings don’t have the pieces to get anything in return and GP needs more time to evaluate the team before doing anything drastic. that being said, it’s hard to predict what he is up to and it usually turns out to be something no one expected or anything rumored so let’s throw more original ideas out there to keep things interesting until we find out.
since we’re on utah, here’s my concoction: john salmons+mikki moore+shelden for AK47. utah saves money next year for boozer/milsap and kings shake things up a little, hopefully selling a few more tickets.
Salmons for the worst contract they have, you could get elected Gov. of Utah.
"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom
I'm not paying AK47 $16 mil!
Not if it were my choice anyway
So imitate the action of the tiger!
Stiffen the sinews, summon up the blood,
Disguise fair nature with hard-favoured rage.
- lend the eye a terrible aspect,
Now set the teeth....and teach them how to war.
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Jan 20, 2009 2:38 PM PST up reply actions
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