Game #35: Kings at Pacers
by Tom Ziller on Jan 3, 2009 2:00 PM PST
in Game Threads
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PrintSacramento Kings at Indiana Pacers, Jan 3, 2009 3:00 PM PST
We have an early one today, tipping at 3PM PST. Pacers also played last night, with Jarrett Jack killing the Knicks at the buzzer. Troy Murphy has been owning the boards, Marquis Daniels has a wayback machine, and T.J. Ford is quick as spit. Fun!
Go Kings.
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Go Kings
Lets play well from the begininng and not get down double digits and try to catch up. What is the over under on how many times Ford blows past Beno?
He is actually not starting and I heard his back is giving him trouble
So if he’s not playing the over under is at 3 IMO
Go Kings!!
Strange. League Pass anouncers are Jerry and Peaches
They usually use the home team’s crew. Maybe not being broadcast in Indy?
Go Kings!
Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott
My league pass has not turned the game on yet?
Any thoughts Kfan?
No clue
I’m watching on league pass international online. It’s not the same as the one in America.
Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott
by Kfan in Korea on Jan 3, 2009 3:26 PM PST up reply actions
OMG I didn't realize I could use my NBA League Pass online
Brilliant (I am not)!
by betweentheeyes on Jan 3, 2009 4:57 PM PST up reply actions
I love JT
put his ass in the starting lineup already
Retiring his jersey at Ryder tomorrow
Let’s hope the Kings retire his jersey in Sac in about 15-20 years.
Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott
by Kfan in Korea on Jan 3, 2009 3:09 PM PST up reply actions
Sorry
Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott
by Kfan in Korea on Jan 3, 2009 3:11 PM PST up reply actions
can we take this lineup out already?
1 minute is enough
Cisco hitting the offensive boards
Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott
League Pass in my area
hasn’t turned the game on yet, argh.
The more you guys work the trade machine, the happier I am GP is our GM.
they say it starts in an hour
The more you guys work the trade machine, the happier I am GP is our GM.
Sound if F-ed up on mine and now
it’s frozen. If that makes you feel better.
Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott
by Kfan in Korea on Jan 3, 2009 3:18 PM PST up reply actions
Beno boxing Hibbert out on that rebound
that was funny
Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott
kevin should be starting
and bobby jackson should be the fifth person off the bench
Think it will be Kevin
put Donté in for Salmons
Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott
by Kfan in Korea on Jan 3, 2009 3:19 PM PST up reply actions
3 fouls on Cisco
and on his way out he left BJax hanging on the high-five.
Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott
And a T
Settle down Cisco
Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott
by Kfan in Korea on Jan 3, 2009 3:21 PM PST up reply actions
Miller going by Hibbert
like my grandma going by Beno.
Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott
its because he should have hit Kevin on the curl
but didn’t even look up
they are probably so used to him not passing
that they don’t even try to move anymore
dribble dribble dribble
"We are in the business of kicking butt and business is very, very good." - Charles Barkley
Salmons
big block by Hibbert, Bucket on the other end
Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott
Brad getting owned
by Hibbert and Johnson on back to back nights
Hell of a pass from Miller
and Kevin for the and 1
Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott
perfect example of the claws
"We are in the business of kicking butt and business is very, very good." - Charles Barkley
Martin setting up Mikki
very nice
Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott
I'm sure they like the concept of defense
"We are in the business of kicking butt and business is very, very good." - Charles Barkley
oh, they've heard of it
but they’ve heard of the nba championships too
"We are in the business of kicking butt and business is very, very good." - Charles Barkley
win or lose we just look better with kevin in there
"We are in the business of kicking butt and business is very, very good." - Charles Barkley
no not really duh, wasn't my point
brad starts to make sense, the offense looks like it has a plan and the other players look like they have a little more confidence,
so duh if you want but no
"We are in the business of kicking butt and business is very, very good." - Charles Barkley
and any center/pf combo
looks good against brad and mikki
Yay
the Comcast idiots finally turned on the game.
The more you guys work the trade machine, the happier I am GP is our GM.
I like the 3 man rotation
with the bigs. I hope we stay with it when Hawes comes back. (Miller, JT and Hawes).
Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott
any word when shawes come back
"We are in the business of kicking butt and business is very, very good." - Charles Barkley
I haven't heard anything
but those stomach muscle issues can linger.
Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott
by Kfan in Korea on Jan 3, 2009 3:38 PM PST up reply actions
i tore an abdominal muscle when i was younger and it took months to heal
"We are in the business of kicking butt and business is very, very good." - Charles Barkley
Flop
Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott
me especially when we have some
"We are in the business of kicking butt and business is very, very good." - Charles Barkley
would love to see some d too
"We are in the business of kicking butt and business is very, very good." - Charles Barkley
37 points in the 1st!
Haven’t seen that in a while. Kings up 4.
Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott
uh JT
you need to guard the roll guy on the pick and roll. :)
The more you guys work the trade machine, the happier I am GP is our GM.
He's back in
Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott
by Kfan in Korea on Jan 3, 2009 3:42 PM PST up reply actions
pretty too
"We are in the business of kicking butt and business is very, very good." - Charles Barkley
I knew Scott was a nut
but Webber more talent than LeBron? Funny.
Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott
he had a great run with the kings
"We are in the business of kicking butt and business is very, very good." - Charles Barkley
I love Pollard
but, I think he was pandering to the home crowd with his Webber comments.
Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott
by Kfan in Korea on Jan 3, 2009 3:49 PM PST up reply actions
probably true but also when he was with the kings was really the only time in his career when he was an important part of his team
"We are in the business of kicking butt and business is very, very good." - Charles Barkley
Kevin heating up
Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott
I like Mikki taking the open 12 footer
not the 17 footer.
Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott
Same for JT
right now, though I hope that will change.
Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott
by Kfan in Korea on Jan 3, 2009 3:54 PM PST up reply actions
there was no d there only 5 guys holding the door open
"We are in the business of kicking butt and business is very, very good." - Charles Barkley
Is kevin getting his minutes limited like cisco did when he came back?
"We are in the business of kicking butt and business is very, very good." - Charles Barkley
Nope
He actually said in his postgame interview after the CLips game, that he didn’t like the minute count. He was good to go
I don't think so
he’s been playing a lot.
Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott
by Kfan in Korea on Jan 3, 2009 4:01 PM PST up reply actions
Finish the half out strong now guys
Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott
18 1st half points.
Very nice
Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott
by Kfan in Korea on Jan 3, 2009 4:03 PM PST up reply actions
23 points now
Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott
by Kfan in Korea on Jan 3, 2009 4:09 PM PST up reply actions
You know why the broadcast was screwed up on LP?
They changed the start time of this game because of the Colts game, didn’t they?
Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott
This is ridiculous
Ever since Hawes went down with injury, every scrub big man we’ve gone against has lit us up. Paul Davis, Amir Johnson, now Roy Hibbert.
flop?
"We are in the business of kicking butt and business is very, very good." - Charles Barkley
you're right and that is what the box score will show
"We are in the business of kicking butt and business is very, very good." - Charles Barkley
it was definitely an illegal screen, he’ll learn.
The more you guys work the trade machine, the happier I am GP is our GM.
JT
Seriously getting the rookie treatment. What the eff
it's only bad if he doesn't learn anything from it
"We are in the business of kicking butt and business is very, very good." - Charles Barkley
Nice hearing Scot
W/ Napes and Jerry. I think He used to bug the hell out of them when he would sit in w/ them. Constantly saying “Absooooolutely!”
Peaches will put up with anything while they're plugging the # retirement games,
"We are in the business of kicking butt and business is very, very good." - Charles Barkley
Beagle I'm not tracking with you
on Yahoo it’s showing 21 -20 and brad with 7
"We are in the business of kicking butt and business is very, very good." - Charles Barkley
Hard to imagine what he could do different other than K-Mart
starting JT would definitely be a bad idea.
The more you guys work the trade machine, the happier I am GP is our GM.
Yay
good to see Beno hit that shot
Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott
and jerry didn't say beno draino
"We are in the business of kicking butt and business is very, very good." - Charles Barkley
Wow, Hibbert is slow
Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott
Nice to see Cisco hit that shot
Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott
Kings up 6. Time Out Indy
Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott
Nice board in traffic
by JT.
The more you guys work the trade machine, the happier I am GP is our GM.
4 fouls on Cisco
Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott
JT and 1
nice
Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott
Pass out of the double team JT
Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott
Nice block on the other end JT
Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott
cuz beno was in
"We are in the business of kicking butt and business is very, very good." - Charles Barkley
4 fouls on Beno
I don’t think that was a charge.
Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott
stop turning it over please
Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott
Kevin for three
Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott
yep
Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott
by Kfan in Korea on Jan 3, 2009 4:45 PM PST up reply actions
too many offensive rebounds
Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott
got a break on that foul
we’ll take it.
Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott
BobbyJ
too unselfish, but we got lucky. That doesn’t happen all the time. :)
The more you guys work the trade machine, the happier I am GP is our GM.
better than clanking 3 pt attempts
maybe he’s starting to listent to Knatt
"We are in the business of kicking butt and business is very, very good." - Charles Barkley
Win counts no matter what I know
I just think we have a better chance of winning this if we get some separation early
a thing of beauty
"We are in the business of kicking butt and business is very, very good." - Charles Barkley
JT in the passing lane
and Speed tearing it up.
The more you guys work the trade machine, the happier I am GP is our GM.
JT steal
to Salmons to Kevin for the transition 3! 31 for Kevin
Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott
had 3 guys on him
someone needed to move. But yeah, bad pass.
Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott
by Kfan in Korea on Jan 3, 2009 4:52 PM PST up reply actions
Stupid turn over for Indy
we’ll take it
Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott
I would've prefered Kevin force the 3 than
have Jackson force the 3.
Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott
there was 5 on the shot clock
and he’s on the edge of the court, should he just take the violation?
The more you guys work the trade machine, the happier I am GP is our GM.
JT's
getting a lot of quality learing time tonight. And how about Bjax pressuring Diener into that turnover!
The more you guys work the trade machine, the happier I am GP is our GM.
Hit that Cisco!
Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott
Jackson probably should have taken that one
Cisco was more covered.
Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott
Yes
but I’ve been riding him for chucking the last few games, so I figured I should be fair when I felt he passed up a shot.
Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott
by Kfan in Korea on Jan 3, 2009 5:04 PM PST up reply actions
I could see the chucker comment on that Cisco 3
but hey, it was open and it went in, yay :)
The more you guys work the trade machine, the happier I am GP is our GM.
The first one was bad
second one that went in was perfect. He was set and had some room thanks to the Mikki screen
to borrow a coolcat point
let’s not get beaten by Granger tonight.
The more you guys work the trade machine, the happier I am GP is our GM.
tough call on JT
Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott
tru but remember earlier in the season he was commiting stupid reach in fouls and he;s cut that down alot
I think JT is learning and improving before our eyes
"We are in the business of kicking butt and business is very, very good." - Charles Barkley
every time we get a chance to build a lead
we turn it over blah
That's where Cisco and Jackson hitting the open shots comes in
Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott
by Kfan in Korea on Jan 3, 2009 5:06 PM PST up reply actions
Eeeesh
That’s not something I want to rely on too much. Granted the shots are going tonight, but I still get nervous
www.mancancook.net
Martin for 3!
Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott
Wow
Bjax got away with one.
The more you guys work the trade machine, the happier I am GP is our GM.
knew that was going in
"We are in the business of kicking butt and business is very, very good." - Charles Barkley
Bobby J
Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott
has his moments
"We are in the business of kicking butt and business is very, very good." - Charles Barkley
He's playing out of his mind
on both ends.
The more you guys work the trade machine, the happier I am GP is our GM.
Bury them now!
Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott
Ball movement please
Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott
stupid foul
"We are in the business of kicking butt and business is very, very good." - Charles Barkley
fouling a 3pt shooter
isn’t ever good.
The more you guys work the trade machine, the happier I am GP is our GM.
ended up being a good foul but still a stupid foul
"We are in the business of kicking butt and business is very, very good." - Charles Barkley
Good to see the team contesting the 3 actively
the foul was bad, but that’s gonna happen at times.
Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott
by Kfan in Korea on Jan 3, 2009 5:15 PM PST up reply actions
yeah, should've been and 1
Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott
by Kfan in Korea on Jan 3, 2009 5:15 PM PST up reply actions
Kevin with 36 now and two FTs coming
Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott
Hello...
Hello…
Hello, I’m Kevin Martin
That commercial’s way better than his first MetroPCS one
www.mancancook.net
turn over Indy. A Kings basket here would be nice
Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott
Miller hits it. 5 point lead. assist Kevin
Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott
by Kfan in Korea on Jan 3, 2009 5:17 PM PST up reply actions
Wow
how did Kevin find Miller on that and get him the ball? Nice play.
The more you guys work the trade machine, the happier I am GP is our GM.
41 for Kevin
Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott
Kevin for three....rims out. damn that would've been huge.
Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott
he's not going to make every single one
:)
The more you guys work the trade machine, the happier I am GP is our GM.
7-10 from 3 tonight wow!
Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott
by Kfan in Korea on Jan 3, 2009 5:21 PM PST up reply actions
Bad shot
by Salmons, he needs to see the floor better.
The more you guys work the trade machine, the happier I am GP is our GM.
Big block by Cisco
Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott
dang
"We are in the business of kicking butt and business is very, very good." - Charles Barkley
Have you had anything positive to say today?
We are not very good… we know. Let us enjoy the game and talk about how much we suck later
Back to back misses on very makeable shots
one by Kevin one by John
Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott
Wow, Peaches didn't jinx him
It’s a New Year’s miracle.
Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott
that was a good foul but horrible d
"We are in the business of kicking butt and business is very, very good." - Charles Barkley
sweet
"We are in the business of kicking butt and business is very, very good." - Charles Barkley
Kevin Martin - 45 points
Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott
Never got into the offense that trip.
Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott
and we were up 7 with 3 minutes left?
this is how teams get high draft picks
Dude
We’re in the game at the end on the road. Three weeks ago, I’d have had to turn the game off in disgust an hour ago.
Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott
by Kfan in Korea on Jan 3, 2009 5:30 PM PST up reply actions
Big FTs by Granger.
Kings down 3 22 secs to go
Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott
Hate to be negative
but if Martin was clutch as hell, he would’ve made one of those last three shots. The threes are one thing, but to fake a three on the last one, get past the defender for a two that they were probably willing to concede, and miss the layup…that is the opposite of clutch. What’s the opposite of “ice water in your veins”? He scored alot of points (nice! very much needed) and wasn’t too underconditioned until the last 30 seconds, then the rust becomes an excuse? I just think it’s a sample of how Martin is not the player to carry this team anywhere. Sorry.
That may be too premature
Kevin is really just starting to take the key shots in the clutch, to be the man in crunch time. Before he wouldn;t even take the shots or not much. Now he is taking them and not making a lot. You have to take them to make them, and he’s too good of a player not to figure it out eventually. He just needs a few gamewinners to know how it feels.
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on Jan 3, 2009 9:19 PM PST up reply actions
You mean like
He’ll get better at it, I agree. Today’s game just wasn’t a good example. The guys just got back from injury and is just rounding into game shape. I like how much better we are with him and how we are able to compete. Let’s see how we do from now on…
I agree with you both.
The King’s are much better with him right now, and he may “learn” to have “icewater”. I guess I just have a feeling/see a pattern otherwise.
Nothing would make me happier than for him to turn into a legit first option/clutch/all around stud for a thriving Kings team.
Nice highlights
But you probably don’t want to view a film called “Kevin Martin’s Last Three Minutes” in its entirety. It’s pretty much running at least 10-1 heartache at this point.
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on Jan 3, 2009 10:43 PM PST up reply actions
I agree he has much to learn
Ijust wanted to give a couple examples about how he has been working on being dependable in the clutch. The San Antonio shot was as much skill as it was luck so you probably wouldn’t even count that. One shot I remember him taking at the end of the game that put it away was one in Chicago a couple of seasons back. It was during the early roadtrip we always take to start the season. I couldn’t find the video for that.
Also remember, Martin may have been the most effective player in our team for a couple years now but he has never been the first option at the clutch (or even during the games). First it was Bibby, and last year it was Artest. So him not being able to prove himself in the clutch is not really his fault or his inability to get it done. He just hasn’t had the chance
I'd only disagree
In that despite what you say about not being the first option being true, he has still had quite a few opportunities that he hasn’t been able to capitalize on. But he has a lot of opportunities to come in the future.
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on Jan 3, 2009 11:33 PM PST up reply actions
I honestly don't recall those opportunities
Maybe you can refresh my memory with some concrete examples, if you don’t remember either I’ll can easily just take word for it.
He will have opportunities in the future and I’m sure we all hope he’s able to capitalize in some of them. I wouldn’t necessarily think he’s less of a player if he doesn’t because of what he’s able to do for the game overall
The last 2-3 games
for starters.
Last year he got to take a game winner early in the season against Cleveland and missed it. There were a few other opportunities that he didn’t cash in on or some strong game performances that included weak fourth-quarter performances. Sorry, I don’t have a specific list. Naturally his two big successes are the Spurs game and the coast to coast score last year.
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on Jan 4, 2009 12:10 AM PST up reply actions
So you are counting the last 3 games
when he just came back from an injury that prevented him from playing 10+ games and that probably limited his ability to do anything basket related??
I’m sure he had some weak performances in the past in the 4th quarter like any other player has had. Anyways, I think we both have our own position and are probably not gonna change it. Let’s just hope that in the future he helps the team win some games and leave it at that
Those are just the most recent examples
and certainly you have to say he has done very well since his return outside of finishing poorly.
Frankly, you could go to 82games, look up the play-by-plays and compare his record in the 4th Q vs. his record in the first three Qs since he became a starter and see how he did in close games.
His free throw shooting has been an asset generally in the past when we actually had some leads to protect. He just has not proven to be a go-to guy when you need a bucket at crunch time.
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on Jan 4, 2009 12:28 AM PST up reply actions
Kevin isn't our problem...
He is a bona fide NBA player. He might become a clutch player given time and chance. He is going to get a lot of chances this year being the #1 option. We need to see him miss a helava lot more clutch shots to put him into Peja status. For now, he is the scoring machine we need. Even though we didnt win tonight, it was at least competitive. When was the last time we could say that? I like how the team plays with Martin on the floor, but the bottom line is the Kings have several roster moves to go before this team is a playoff team. Martin will either be the Clutch All Star, or he will be a Great Scorer. Either way, he is Relevant, which is more than I can say about the rest of the entire team. Kevin is the only one who deserves mention on an All Star Ballot. The rest of the Kings players are Rookies and Scrubs, PERIOD.
by FaStRmAn on Jan 4, 2009 12:37 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I agree with everything you said
for the most part. Tell it like it is.
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on Jan 4, 2009 2:00 AM PST up reply actions
Interesting
I did go to 82games.com and looked up their clutchtime statistics for last season (not sure there’s any point in looking up this season, since Martin has played relatively little).
Looks to me like Martin was 23rd in production over 48 minutes per game, unless I’m reading it incorrectly.
http://www.82games.com/CSORT11.HTM
Interesting note on that page:
For these stats “Clutch” is defined as:
4th quarter or overtime, less than 5 minutes left, neither team ahead by more than 5 points
Someday, you should quit cherrypicking stats to back up your argument.
Are we gonna live together? Together are we gonna live?
As I pointed out earlier
Kevin’s free throw shooting when the team is ahead and he is fouled help cherry pick your argument.
This argument was already had when Ziller posted the erroneous Myth article that was never corrected, even though the glaring errors in it were pointed out. Reread.
If you think Kevin Martin is a great performer in the clutch, I am not going to persuade you otherwise.
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on Jan 4, 2009 9:38 AM PST up reply actions
So
Kevin Martin:
- 6th in the league in points per game.
- 23rd in clutch time production.
I think you’ve made the point quite well. His production in crunch time is below his overall production.
But, as I’ve said, hope is not lost. The Kings have put a lot of their future into the development of Kevin Martin and they are going to give him every chance to succeed.
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on Jan 4, 2009 11:40 AM PST up reply actions
Wow, you are daft
Kevin was 6th in the league in points per game – which means he’s a damn good scorer, comparative to the rest of the league.
He was 23rd in the league in “clutch” time production, meaning he’s damn good in the “clutch”, comparative to the rest of the league.
As usual, you are going apples-to-oranges, because you have no ability to understand the statistics you are spouting.
So, since you are slow, I will go apples-to-apples for you:
Per the link I sent you, Kevin scored 34.4 points per 48 minutes of “clutch” time in the ‘07-’08 season. Kevin’s scoring average overall for the season was 31.3 points per 48 minutes.
Kevin shot better from the field and from three in the clutch versus overall.
So when you said this:
I think you’ve made the point quite well. His production in crunch time is below his overall production.
You showed your ass AGAIN.
Are we gonna live together? Together are we gonna live?
by otis29 on Jan 4, 2009 12:01 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Just get the quarterly scoring numbers
and get back to me about how clutch he has been.
Kevin is a league leader in the first three quarters, but his fourth-quarter numbers are way down the list.
You can slice and dice that anyway you see fit.
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on Jan 4, 2009 2:04 PM PST up reply actions
Just to help you out with that
His stats for 07-08:
- 1st Q: 6.6 pts. (9th).
- 2nd Q: 5.7 pts. (3rd).
- 3rd Q: 6.9 pts. (5th).
- 4th Q: 5.2 pts. (24th).
By the way, I expect those stats to change for some of the same reasons we have discussed previously: mainly the fact that Martin is clearly the go-to player on this team, whereas in past seasons he had to compete with Bibby and Artest for clutch time shots.
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on Jan 4, 2009 2:20 PM PST up reply actions
Is my data incorrect?
I see you decided to pivot a bit. But you should at least admit that his production in crunch time is better than his normal production. Unless you want to refute the data.
Are we gonna live together? Together are we gonna live?
Your sky is black
Roger. Over.
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on Jan 4, 2009 6:03 PM PST up reply actions
Seriously
I’m trying to understand what you are saying here:
I think you’ve made the point quite well. His production in crunch time is below his overall production.
I’ve given you statistical evidence to show said statement as untrue. You have come back with data showing Kevin’s measures up weakly in the fourth quarter.
So I’m guessing what you’re saying is:
Entire 4th quarter = Crunchtime
You might be the only one on the planet doing so, but if that’s the case, just admit it.
Are we gonna live together? Together are we gonna live?
Adding
Kevin Martin just scored 45 points in a game, in a season filled with incompetence and disappointment.
Enjoy it!
Shut up and Coach
That's not the CC way
If it isn’t divisive or confusing, it isn’t the CC way.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
Good point Carl
and if you read far enough up, you’ll see I agree with that sentiment.
Kevin has struggled in crunch time in the past, but now he’s clearly the No. 1 option and I expect him to work through that.
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on Jan 5, 2009 2:23 PM PST up reply actions
OK, I can live with
Kevin Martin scored about 19% less points in the fourth quarter of games last year than he scored in the average of the first three quarters.
Martin averaged 5.2 points in the fourth quarter after averaging 6.4 points per quarter in the first three quarters.
That’s expected to change with the trading of Mike Bibby and Ron Artest and Martin’s clear emergence as the go-to man for Sacramento’s 8-25 ballclub.
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on Jan 5, 2009 3:02 PM PST up reply actions
Don't forget that last season
Kevin spent a good 4-5 minutes of the 4th quarter on the bench. Similar rest in the 2nd quarter. May help to explain the lower point totals.
Maybe look at points per minute for each quarter, though I don’t know where you might find a stat like that.
Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott
by Kfan in Korea on Jan 5, 2009 9:26 PM PST up reply actions
very good Otis
"We are in the business of kicking butt and business is very, very good." - Charles Barkley
Kevin sets a Sac record for points off the bench
Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott
First one was a bad shot
2nd one was clean, in and out. bummer.
Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott
down 5 now. 14 secs to go
tough loss, but fun game.
too bad Petrie passed on Granger /coolcat>
Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott
another loss, not a moral victory
but at least we looked like an nba team out there tonight
"We are in the business of kicking butt and business is very, very good." - Charles Barkley
That was a fun game
Man, if we could get a couple shots to go our way. It’s a process though and it just shows that Kevin can keep us in games if he’s on
He missed his last three shots
He looks tired and is not ready to amp up. Probably needed a breather but he was scoring gangbusters so was left in.
by betweentheeyes on Jan 3, 2009 5:38 PM PST up reply actions
Exactly what happened
Tired legs. The guys didn’y play for 20 something games (or a little less) and his second and third games were back to back. He still came out and shot lights out for 45 points. Can’t blame him, it was great effort
Tired or not...
I hope Martin scores 40+ often for the Kings but they get someone who is truly a clutch/ice water in his veins/refuse to lose bad ass to finish things off for him.
You're basing Martin not being clutch on one game...
remember a famous shot against the Spurs? or a game winner against Seattle last year. Not saying the man is James Posey, but it’s not like he’s never hit a clutch shot.
smell the ashes
by iamstern'skippah! on Jan 3, 2009 6:00 PM PST up reply actions
Interesting
that you would use Posey as someone that Martin wouldn’t equal, or maybe Horry. But those players are an example of having what Martin doesn’t (yet?). Something that is so important when games often come down to the plays at the end drawn up for the teams “best player”. Icewater.
I give Martin all the credit for the player he is, but he’s no Posey or Horry or…that just doesn’t sound right. I mean he’s no MJ, Kobe, Wade…ok. He’s hailed as practically untouchable around here, I just think he lacks that killer instinct and the icewater to carry it out. Sorry, I know this subject has been discussed – but the end of the game tonight just refreshed my opinion. And it really wasn’t even the 3’s he missed, more the meaningless layup. It’s just that when he was going for that meaningless layup, almost uncontested, after two missed opportunities to hit a game winner…I thought, he’s gonna miss this too. Anyone else?
He scored great tonght otherwise, and I realize he’s been out, I just thought I’d share my humble opinion that he may never be the King’s main guy.
Not to be divisive or anything
But many people around here have generally seen him as a 2nd banana in the ultimate scheme of things.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
No, I know
I don’t know why I touched this nerve, I just want the ultimate scheme to become clear (and victorious) like everyone else.
We all do
But it’s not gonna happen for at least a couple years. For now, I think he’s doing a good job at trying to lead by example and at taking responsibility for this team. That’s just my opinion
I think he could still be a leader even when we get a star to pair up with him. He’s the one that’s been with the team for a while. Let him be a ‘Pierce’ and let’s get him a ‘KG’
I've been slightly against the
Martin is the Kings’ future, the star of the team, untouchable movement…but you’re all right. He’s a piece. He’s trying. He may get there. Get him some help Petrie. Let’s go. When’s the next game!!!!? The next trade!!!? The next draft!!!?
I think a lot of people left that thought behind a while ago
I don’t want to talk for others but I think most here know that he’s a piece of the puzzle, a very important one actually. I still believe he’s untouchable. Where can you get a player THAT productive and effcicient at his price?? The only way he’s leaving Sac is if we get LeBron, Wade, Superman, or that caliber of a superstar back for him and that ain’t happening so for me he’s untouchable (key word: me).
The next move is Petrie’s indeed. Trade wisely, draft wisely, spend wisely and that ultimate scheme you are looking for may start to shape nicely.
Well said
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
The thing is
a guy like Posey is a one of a kind player in terms of making big shots. Nobody in the league is like him in that regard right now, not even Kobe who has missed plenty of game winning shots in his career. I was happier more for Martin accepting the challenge of trying to make those shots than whether he made them or not as in years past, he would’ve been passive and let Artest take the shot.
smell the ashes
by iamstern'skippah! on Jan 3, 2009 11:01 PM PST up reply actions
Kobe
and maybe Lebron
If Kevin hadn’t missed so much time this season we’d have seen a huge clutch performance. He’s found his rhythm and is playing very well but its obvious he’s tired and needs to get back into game playing condition. Once he does I think he’ll be golden at the end of games
www.mancancook.net
Thanks vfettke
Though I would still love to see busybe’s list of players. I don’t think anyone here’s consider Martin to be in the Kobe, LeBron, Wade category but not seeing that some of those miss shots are because of tired legs is absurd.
Absurd?
The missed 3’s may be from tired leg’s. I was talking about how you could sense his confidence wane in the closing seconds after those 3’s. When he went for the meaningless, basically gimmie layup at the end – his legs were fine. He was at the rim and missed. Just worried me. From my playing days (basketball, golf, whatever) I don’t think I have a clutch bone in my body. I know the feeling. It seems Martin exhibits the same tendencies. Good thing he’s a great player and may overcome it. No, will overcome it.
I’m amazed at the players who have “the icewater”. Can the King’s get them one? Who are they? I went through the rosters and came up with about 20. I’m sure they’re not unanimous, so I won’t waste everyone’s time starting the debate. I am surprised at how many all-stars/star players wouldn’t be on my list. Made me appreciative of Martin.
and we didn't give up much with him sitting
"We are in the business of kicking butt and business is very, very good." - Charles Barkley
Our defense killed us
We need Spencer back ASAP. We just don’t have any interior defense without him
don't agree
The Kings were in this game because of that line up. Not good defense on either side. The Pacers line up simply outscored the Kings line up, it was a jump shooting contest not a rebounding, drive the lane, dunk-a-thon.
by betweentheeyes on Jan 3, 2009 6:32 PM PST up reply actions
possible silver lining comment?
Minny wins it’s eighth and that moves the Kings to 3rd in draft position.
do I get a rec’d for positives? I am trying- maybe for effort?
Game of the year?
Sacramento @ Minnesota to close the seaon on Wednesday, April 15th.
Projected starting lineup for the Kings: Justin Williams, Noel Felix, Kenny Thomas, Randy Brown, Mustafa Shakur.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
by section214 on Jan 3, 2009 8:48 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
With Kenny Thomas taking 15 threes!
smell the ashes
by iamstern'skippah! on Jan 3, 2009 9:16 PM PST up reply actions
The Kings
At least they have one decent player now. That’s enough to make them competitive, but not much more.
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on Jan 3, 2009 9:22 PM PST reply actions
An All-Star player is decent?
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
Would you be happy if I said this guy who has yet to make an All-Star team
is very good?
Let’s not be too picky.
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on Jan 3, 2009 10:39 PM PST up reply actions
Kevin Martin is an all-star caliber player
Whether he ever gets there or not is a matter of other things, and some of them are beyond his control.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
The Kings are now the 3rd lottery seed
15.6% to win the lottery!
OMG Brad Miller is a Pathetic, Worthless Sack of SHEET !!
Is it just me, or has Miller completely lost the ability to perform at an NBA level? Is it that he knows the Kings are trying to unload him like a counterfeit 3 dollar bill or is he really just washed up. Is anyone else throwing up at half time while they show the “Please don’t HATE Brad so much” puke pieces??? Man, I am glad he is doing community service for all his pot convictions, but the BS about Miller working out is lunacy! I mean really, he has never made an effort to improve his physic, and if he couldn’t shoot the ball, he would never have been able to last this long in the NBA. The list of things The “B52 Bummer” can not do is endless. Can’t move his feet. Can’t play defense. Cant guard anyone. Can’t protect the rim. Can’t rebound. Can’t keep the opposing team from developing entire game plans to take it at him for easy scores. The list is endless. Hawes could not have gotten injured at a worse time. Miller was just about to get replaced.
Perhaps the Hawes injury is a fake to give a plausible reason to keep starting this stiff. If you were going to trade Miller, benching him would be the wisest move. Every time he plays, he must be proving how utterly worthless he is. He can no longer play NBA Basketball. He is no longer an NBA Caliber center. Not that he ever was a very good center, but he is just awful now. Yea, the team must be faking the abdominal strain (most fake sounding injury of all time) to keep that sack of sewage on the floor. Miller has a part in every Kings loss this season including the games he didn’t play in. Watch teams in the fourth quarter go at him like a free meal ticket. He can’t JUMP !! He has a negative vertical leap. 6 foot tall guards out jump him for rebounds and dunks. All his rebounds are FLAT FOOTED. Other teams are having a field day at Miller’s expense. Every player in the league is having a career day playing against the Kings. Players that Miller is guarding that is.
I know the coaching staff isn’t blind. They have finally figured out that Beno was only trying for the Greeno. Now that he is paid, he is totally dogging it. Natt has him on the bench now more than he is playing, and I can see Beno loosing his starting position very soon. But Miller was already heading for the bench when this mysterious Abdominal aliment occurred to a 19 year young center. Timing is suspicious to say the least. Why they feel the need to pretend Hawes is injured so that Miller can keep starting is beyond me. Petrie is trying his hardest to dump Miller, but every game he plays is like reverse advertising. He looses value every time he plays. I know every time I see Miller in the starting lineup I know the Kings have a great chance to lose. Miller is a negative influence on our young bigs and may be causing irreparable harm to their psyche’s.
Until Miller is gone and this team gets a bona fide point guard, I am afraid the Kings are a perennial lottery team. Hey, maybe that is why they have benched Hawes and are playing Miller !! Maybe they are going to tank the season to get a Stephan Curry or Rubio or whomever is available when the Kings pick top 3-5? It is a great Idea (if it works…), because no one wants to see this team limp into an 8 seed only to get beat in some vain and hopeless effort. This team isn’t ready for prime time. There are not enough functional pieces to even dream about making a run in the playoffs. What is our GM DOING ?? Fact is, they should stop televising their crappy games so that young kids don’t get the wrong idea about what real basketball looks like. Nasmith is rolling in his grave watching the Kings try to execute. I wonder if other centers point and laugh at Miller when he plays?
If Petrie IS able to find a taker (sucker) for that 7 foot tall pile of manure with a 52 on it, then he may truly be a GENIUS !! Either that or the GM that gets rooked might be a total moron. How would you sell acquiring Brad Frigging Miller to your fans, if you were a GM? Any GM that would give ANYTHING for the “B52 Bonger” has to be stupid, is looking for dead money to clear salary cap space, or is trying to get fired (Nelly?). Miller isn’t even good for 5-10 minutes off the bench. That 5-10 minutes would be a 17-2 run by the opposing team, with a layup drill being done right thru Miller to the rim. If Miller’s guy isn’t the one scoring, the person who has to double Brad’s man because he can’t play defense, his man IS ! If Miller scores 15, he gives up 30 on layups, offensive rebounds and putbacks. He also gives up too many offensive rebounds and gets the ball taken away from him regularly. I have NEVER seen any NBA player get out rebounded so throughly as Cement Shoe 52.
So Brad’s line should really look like: -15 pts, -4 Rebounds, -4 Blocks, -6 steals. He is a BOON for the OTHER TEAM !! A sure win in unsure times… Get RID of the B52 BONGER !!! He is a Totally WORTHLESS Sack of DUNG !! A Motionless CIGAR Store Indian !! THE WORST CENTER IN THE NBA. Playing with Brad is like playing 5 on 4 defense. Just watch any game in the 4th and see how bad he really is. He is so bad, the Ref’s HATE him. He gets clobbered on rebounds nightly and they just turn their heads. He is afforded no calls whatsoever. I think the Refs just hope he doesn’t hurt any REAL NBA players by some Dufus Klutz manuver. There is no Ref in the League that would call ANYONE for over the back on Miller, because he does not bother to FRIGGIN JUMP for rebounds !! When PAUL FRIGGIN DAVIS of the Clips has a career day beating you like a rented MULE, it’s time to retire. Miller needs to hang um up, because he is a total embarrassment. Trade Miller for anything you can get, but they wont get much. Anything, just dump the piece of garbage. And While you are taking out the TRASH, could you please dump Sheldon, Kenny Thomas, Moore, and Douby out too?
The Kings really should clean their house. Arco is starting to STINK, and there are flies everywhere…. Did something DIE in there?? Well, besides our team’s DIGNITY and the Fan’s HOPES ?
Do you feel better now?
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
wow, FasSt do you trip old ladies and kick dogs too
FaSt this link is for you: http://www.anger-management-techniques.org/
read. learn. Peace.
by betweentheeyes on Jan 4, 2009 10:45 AM PST up reply actions
Dude
You might be right about Brad. But you might look a bit smarter if you had posted this when his production was down, not following a game where he was one rebound short of recording his third straight double-double.
Are we gonna live together? Together are we gonna live?
What we all should be hoping is this increased production
coincides with more interest if the production remains sustained.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on
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