Living the Petrie Experience
by ForThree on Jan 30, 2009 12:18 PM PST
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PrintWhile its fun to look backwards and evaluate the job performance of a GM over time, I think by and large the availability of 20/20 hindsight makes it easy to be pretty hard on GMs. Instead, what I want to do is try to figure out what we should do now, given what we know and the available assets we have. What should Petrie do between now and the trade deadline? What opportunities will we have during the summer? I think its interesting to try to answer these questions now and then be able to look back and see how wrong we were six months or a year from now.
Assumptions
Here are my working assumptions:
Shock and Hawes will be 2 of the 3 big men on our team that get legit minutes for the foreseeable future.
Kevin Martin will be the shooting guard.
Francisco Garcia will be on the team.
That’s it, my thoughts are given the above; how do we get to being a contender.
Needs
If you assume Shock and Hawes as legit bigs, then in my opinion, the small guys have to be decent defenders at least if we are going to be even an average defensive team. I have reasonable hopes Shock and Hawes could be average or maybe slightly above average defenders eventually. They aren’t going to be Marcus Camby though, and having our perimeter guys beaten consistently isn’t going to work. This leads me to…Beno can’t be our starting point guard. He can’t be good enough defensively to do the job, and so needs to be either a very expensive backup or he has to go. Kevin Martin needs to be our worst perimeter defender or we’ll never be a decent defensive team.
We need a 3rd good big guy. Even if you project Hawes and JT as starters, there’s plenty of room for a 3rd big guy that will play a lot.
Either you have to buy Salmons as starting small forward or you need something else. Personally, I like Salmons’ game as much as anyone on these boards and have defended him consistently, but I don’t think he’s the right guy for this team. Plus, given his contract and current value, he could be crucial to our rebuilding.
The Big Question
Our #1 Pick – Projected to be no worse than 5th right now. What I find most interesting here is, Petrie really needs to be evaluating this pick right now, to determine what to do before the trade deadline. I think most will agree there is no talent blowing away the competition. The question is, how many players are out there that are worth using this pick on? How many point guards are in the draft that Petrie thinks would be a good long term answer for this team? Is it just Rubio? Is it 2 or 3 guys? Are there no point guards in this draft? Petrie has to have an answer to this question. It’s the same for the big guys. To me it seems there are two legit big guys worth using this kind of pick on. Petrie needs to have decided this already. Obviously, a top 5 draft pick even in a weak draft needs to be turned into an impact player somehow. Given our discussions lately about the players available, it needs to either be a point guard, a big guy or the pick needs to be traded.
What Do We Do?
So what do we do between now and the trade deadline and then during the summer?
Buyout the option on Mikki for $2 million, saving $4.2 million under the cap.
Brad Miller – he has to go before the trade deadline because I believe he will be worth more now than in the summer time, though he would have value next year as an expiring contract. If the best you can do for B52 is expiring contracts and some minor benefit, you still have to do that. If Petrie can move Miller and take K9 with him, we should be applauding like 2001 after a huge Webber jam. I am assuming for purposes of the discussion B52 leaves for just expiring contracts.
Beno – I assume we will have Beno for a while. If Dallas will take him and give us better contracts or expirings back, go for it. I’m ok with Bobby Jackson, Bobby Brown and Cisco through the end of the year.
John Salmons – there’s been some discussion about what to do with him; here’s what I’d like to do:
Salmons and Houston’s #1 to Atlanta for Marvin Williams.
We do this deal because Williams is 22, he’s a good shooter and is athletic enough to be a good defender. Williams has to get paid this summer, so you have to buy him as a long term answer, but he’s gotten better every year. While I don’t like taking draft picks away from GP, Williams is the right guy for our team and I think he’s worth it.
Why does Atlants do this deal? Salmons is slightly better than Williams now. Also, Atlanta has a solid cap situation now but, Bibby needs a new contract this summer, Joe Johnson next year and Al Horford the year after that. Exchanging Williams for Salmons, adds two years of a very cap friendly contract which frees up the cash for them to sign their core guys. The #1 is the sweetner that gets the deal done.
These moves leave us our #1 pick and our salary at $44 million for 2009/10. This is assuming Williams gets a qualifying offer. I would sign him long term instead at say, $9 million for 2009/10, so push our cap number to $46 million.
The advantage of these moves is we have total flexibility with our #1 pick, either we go get a big guy (Griffin or Thabeet) or we get a point guard.
Scenario 1 – Draft a big guy
If we go this direction, the major issue still remaining is PG. We have Beno/BBrown holding the fort, but GP’s next job is finding a PG. Probably you are looking at someone like Raymond Felton, Mike Conley or Kurt Hinrich if you think they could do the job.
Scenario 2 – Draft a Point Guard
A point guard in hand means we’re looking for a big guy. If GP was successful in moving K9 and Beno along, Boozer becomes an option here I think or some other legit big guy that has a big contract via trade or signing.
So we end with either:
Hawes, JT, (Griffin or Thabeet)
Martin/Williams/Cisco
Beno/BBrown and are searching for a point with cash/expirings available
Or
Hawes, JT, cash/expirings available
Martin/Williams/Cisco
(#1 pick)/Beno/BBrown
One thing to watch as we see reality play out is, what does Petrie turn our tradables into? Does he turn them into players or flexibility? Any players, especially long contracts for big guys or a point guard will tell you what Petrie thinks about the upcoming draft.
And yes, I’m aware of the irony of writing 1000 words worth of trade proposals given my sig. Thanks for reading.
(This is a FanPost from a member of the Sactown Royalty community. The views expressed come from the member, and not Sactown Royalty staff.)
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Here's my dream scenario...
1.) We trade Salmons and an expiring deal (Mikki Moore) plus the Houston first for Jerryd Bayless and the LaFrentz expiring contract. (BTW—Portland does this only because Pritchard has noticed that despite winning only 10 games this year, we have beat the Lakers—and have played them well in the game we lost—while the rest of the league has gotten their butts kicked by the Lakers. He looks at the tape and sees that John Salmons makes Kobe work harder for his points than anyone in the league and doesn’t need double team help. He knows his squad has to get by the Lakers to get out of the West, and he has the extra pieces to get the match up for Kobe that he needs. Not as far fetched as it might seem.) Side benefit—this means Cisco starts and Donte gets some burn.
2. We get the first pick in the draft (right now we have the 2nd best statistical chance). We take Blake Griffin with the pick. He joins the big man rotation with JT and Hawes.
3. Trade Brad Miller and Beno for Marion and spare parts (not Banks). This gives us tons of cap room and makes space for Bayless at the point.
4. Sit and wait. I don’t think we can compete with New York and Miami in free agency in 2010, but if we have flexability in 2009, and we have Kenny Thomas’ giant expiring contract set to come off the books in 2010, this should make us players in just about every trade conversation next year. Look for a lopsided deal where we take back a big contract and a promising player.
That leaves us with a lineup of the following:
5. Hawes/JT
4. JT/Griffin
3. Cisco/Donte
2. Martin/Cisco
1. Bayless/Brown
Plus, cap space or a big time free agent/trade acquisition.
That roster has three guys
who could in anyway be deemed a “distributor” – Brown, JT and Cisco. Everyone else needs the Ball alot to be effective.
Donte? Donte'! Donté?!?!
'spect da 'xtra E'
what I'm saying is
That plan would mandate hiring Avery Johnson and not Eddie Jordan.
Donte? Donte'! Donté?!?!
'spect da 'xtra E'
Bibby was a shoot first point guard...
…and he did fine with the Princeton system. I think Bayless would be fine as well. Plus, I believe Bayless has a much higher ceiling than Rodriguez, and he would be a threat to break down the defense off the dribble (which is something we need—especially if Salmons is traded).
It's going to be hard
To find another passing pairing like Divac and C-Webb.
BOOK IT!
Keep the houstoun pick
Why not take a risk on someone with supposed potential and have them throw in Sergio Rodriguez instead of Bayless. More of a pure point guard and only 22 years old. Plus he makes about 1 mil next year.
by MITCH FRONTAGE on Jan 30, 2009 3:49 PM PST up reply actions
I'm much more excited about Bayless than Sergio
I don’t think Sergio will ever be a good enough defender to be a good point guard for our team. Even the Portland people slam Sergio’s defense on a regular basis.
The more you guys work the trade machine, the happier I am GP is our GM.
Well the irony aside
Is there anything wrong stating your opinion? Definitely not in this context.
That being said, I think the Willliams idea is interesting. I would do on the premise that Donte needs time to develop, and having a better SF in front of him gives the time to figure out whom they’d rather have: Williams or Greene. Giving up the 1st rounder is not that groovy, but, you always have the high 2nd round pick, and that could yield quality dividends too. It also doesn’t eat up any potential cap space in signin a FA either. (Not that a low 1st round draft pick would. But the high draft pick will.)
I disagree about leaving Greene out. He’s really had no chance to consistently show himself, and worse, his real position is where the Kings have the most amount of depth, and players to play his position. It means it’s always going to be difficult to find mins for him on the floor, until Natt (or whoever is the coach), or the organization demands, that Greene get floor time.
I stand by everything I’ve said on Rubio, even if the current belief is that he won’t opt to the draft, I just believe otherwise. It’s hard to imagine that he won’t be the 1st or 2nd pick. It’s just too hard to imagine.
Last, excellent well thought out presented idea’s. Enjoyed reading them. Now it’s time to jack off.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I am the stone that builder refused..I am the visual...The inspiration..That made lady sing the blues....I'm the spark that makes your idea bright.....The same spark that lights the dark....So that you can know your left from your right...I am the ballot in your box....The bullet in your gun...The inner glow that lets you know...To call your brother son....The story that just begun...The promise of what's to come...And I'm 'a remain a soldier till the war is won....
I agree....
I would keep the Houston pick around for now. The Rockets are struggling with injuries and that pick could improve greatly if Yao has his yearly injury, or T-Mac continues to play sporadically. But…if it takes that pick to land a player of Westbrooks talent then I think it might be worth it if the Kings can get Portlands second rounder in return. 2 second rounders might get you back into the late 1st round- something the Kings should have done this last year instead of drafting Singletary and PEjr.
Greene will get his minutes once the Salmons situation is taken care of, unless the Kings also land a stud 3 in their dealings.
Hot dogs, get your hot dogs.
The way things are going
I wouldn’t be surprised if the Rocket’s pick landed within the 18th to 22nd range, which is not bad at all. I think we need to use our first rounders in a PG and a big man.
I think once Salmons is traded (if he does) we need to give minutes to Donte to evaluate what he can do and start his development. I’m a believer and think he can be that 3 of the future but thre’s no way of knowing for sure unless he starts getting some playing time. The Kings shouldn’t add more to that 3 spot until the know what Greene is going to give us.
"Let's stop arguing and get together and agree on who really is the problem: PEACHES" - HighTops
No untouchables
I don’t think anyone is untouchable on our roster. I think your starting point is fair, but wouldn’t want GP to disregard other options because he thinks Martin, JT or Hawes are untouchable. As for drafting point guards… start watching Patty Mills at St.Mary’s. He might be the best PG in the draft… looks like Tony Parker except that he can shoot lights out. He was the starting PG on the Australian National Team.
by longtimelistenerfirsttimecaller on Jan 30, 2009 2:07 PM PST reply actions
Good Post
I like the ideas for the most part. Lets hope GP an get some constructive things done.
(sooooon would be good)
So imitate the action of the tiger!
Stiffen the sinews, summon up the blood,
Disguise fair nature with hard-favoured rage.
- lend the eye a terrible aspect,
Now set the teeth....and teach them how to war.
Henry V iii
Donte
I think Donte is entirely too raw to project him to be anything more than a backup on a good team, at least for the next two years. I’m advocating getting Marvin Williams because he’s several years ahead of Donte’ and has proven he’s on track to being a good NBA player.
In some ways, they seem to be similar types of players, the question is do you want to roll the dice Donte’ will grow up to be as good as Marvin Williams, and are you willing to be patient enough for him to get there, how long will it take? I’m not working on a 5 year plan personally. I want this to be better next year, and in the playoffs the year after hopefully.
I’m not excited to give up the Rocket’s pick either, especially because of GP’s track record in turning those into legit players, but I’m willing to, to get a guy that I think would be perfect for our system. Williams is a good shooter, wouldn’t dominate the ball, is athletic enough to finish in the Princeton system and should be a good defender.
The more you guys work the trade machine, the happier I am GP is our GM.
Bayless
Why is Bayless in all these recent trade scenarios when KP explicitly traded up to get him? I also don’t see why the Blazers would want Salmons when Webster/Batum is their future and are solid defenders in their own right.
Although it’s probably not a hot idea overpaying for both a PG and backup, I really wish the Kings would work out a trade to in fact bring Hinrich over (assuming we have no shot at Rubio). This team desperately needs one competent defender at the Guard spot and the Bulls have no need for him.
Beno + Hinrich
= $16 million a year for the next three years at PG. Has the hydra at PF taught us nothing? Now we want the Hi-Drih at PG? Unless Udrih is shipped, I have less than no interest in Hinrich.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
+1
So imitate the action of the tiger!
Stiffen the sinews, summon up the blood,
Disguise fair nature with hard-favoured rage.
- lend the eye a terrible aspect,
Now set the teeth....and teach them how to war.
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Jan 31, 2009 11:52 AM PST up reply actions
also this is the point I was trying to make. Petrie has to make these decisions now when we might have a shot at Rubio. If Petrie loves Rubio, he’s probably not trading for a PG before the deadline. Yet, there are things he needs to do before the deadline, in my opinion at least.
Those are the interesting questions to me, with what we know right now, what should GP do with Brad Miller?
The more you guys work the trade machine, the happier I am GP is our GM.
Call Paulie Walnuts
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
by section214 on Jan 31, 2009 8:30 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
hehe
rec’d. Free lap at the Ba-da Bing for youse
by betweentheeyes on Jan 31, 2009 8:41 AM PST up reply actions
ForThree - another well thought out post
As interesting as these trade ideas are they rarely (never) work out as neatly as they are posted. I agree (and also posted) that our core is beno, kevin,cisco, JT and Spence. Despite Pookey’s major man crush on é, I really don’t see it. he has PF size at the 3 but I haven’t seen much progress this season, if he stays fine if he fills out a trade that’s fine too.
As LTLFTC mentioned above, with our record no one should be untouchable but at some point Petrie has to keep some foundation players to build the future team around and I think the players you mentioned are our core for better or worse. If we could resign Shelton to a reasonable I think he would make a good backup 4 and could give us some defensive presence at the post. I don’t understand why KNatt hasn’t given him any minutes this season ands from my perspective we still don’t know what he can do. Given minutes he’s a good/decent rebounder and is good for putback buckets and short jumpers so he can put some points up.
I’m fairly certain GP is going to continue to play his cards close to his vest but I’m hoping one of the Maloof boys shoots his mouth off and gives us some indication which way this team is going. I agree with most of your post with the exception that if Petrie wants to move K9 this season I think he’s going to have to combine him with Salmons to make a trrade palettable to another GM. We have enough salary pieces to make almost any trade doable but unfortunately we don’t have attractive players other than Salmons.
The season is over though I’m still going to be watching the games, let the trades begin.
"We are in the business of kicking butt and business is very, very good." - Charles Barkley
Highly unusual
We have one of the worst teams, but one of the best GMs (in the eyes of some).
I’m probably wrong, though, as I am sure a lot of top-notch GMs have had teams that won less than 20 games in a season.
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on Jan 31, 2009 7:00 PM PST reply actions
Would 25 wins make you happier?
30?
We’re rebuilding. It’s not for those with a weak constitution.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
We're rebuilding
and you’re rationalizing. This was not the tune you were spinning after the trade or in early season. After all, it was just a switch of players, and no great impact. We would have the same record or slightly worse. And even now, though we are competing to be the worst team in the league, the GM is great, all the players are just fine, no problems.
I think my concern is that while we are rebuilding, many here think that more of the pieces that are here are part of the future, and I think there is a disconnect there. If they are part of the future, why is the present so dismal? Maybe more of these guys (maybe almost all of these guys?) aren’t the answer now or in the future?
Maybe the Danny Ainge approach of clearing the decks, even of his most promising young players, will turn out to be a better approach. But Geoff Petrie hasn’t shown himself to be that bold ,that quickly. His is a more incremental approach, so we may be 4-5 seasons away from the playoffs.
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on Jan 31, 2009 7:46 PM PST up reply actions
What Section said
Was not a rationalization. Section isn’t spinning anything about this team. If anything, the losing seems to bother you a lot more than him or I, and I know for a fact it isn’t very fun watching this team. But, all I do is look for the silver linings. Everything you say is possible, but I like to walk the 4-5 year road when it comes. I like the benefit of the doubt. The type of things you pose are all possible, I suppose, but in my view, too cynical to enjoy the game for what it is.
The Kings are a mediocre team having an absolutely crummy season. No other way to put it.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I am the stone that builder refused..I am the visual...The inspiration..That made lady sing the blues....I'm the spark that makes your idea bright.....The same spark that lights the dark....So that you can know your left from your right...I am the ballot in your box....The bullet in your gun...The inner glow that lets you know...To call your brother son....The story that just begun...The promise of what's to come...And I'm 'a remain a soldier till the war is won....
I can’t speak for others, but it’s the way the Kings are losing that’s upsetting. The Kings have the worst record while playing primarily playing veterans. I mean it took 2 months for the staff to official start JT. I recognize Petrie has to showcase Miller and possibly Salmons/Udrich, but Hawes is getting 10 less minutes in January, Brown is our third PG, and Greene and Shelden are rotting on the bench. Now I recognize a lot of those players are either still raw or just busts, but we already know what the likes of our veteran rotation will give us, 10-38.
I’d even say those extra Miller/Udrich minutes are hurting their trade values as their laziness/ineptitude is exposed.
For comparison sake, look at a team like OKC, their 3 big minute players are who the fans want to see in Durant/Green/Westbrook.
Correct
I thought that we would be slightly worse. Turns out that we are significantly worse. That does not make the Artest for Greene/draft pick a bad deal. W-e a-r-e r-e-b-u-i-l-d-i-n-g. We were not a playoff team with or without Artest, so the fact that we are worse this year for not having is no big deal.
As far as the future is concerned, all one can hope to do is amass some level of talent and assets until you clear the cap space. Kevin Martin is a superior offensive talent. Probably not a leader, definitely not a defensive stopper, but an incredibly efficient offensive player. Jason Thompson looks like he may become a legitimate NBA talent. Hawes was showing well before the coaching change. Donté is still young and raw. We have a pair of 1st round picks, one a high lottery choice. Do these pieces look considerably worse than Al Jefferson (when he wore Celtic green), Gerald Green, or the Celtics picks?
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
No, no and (it depends on whether you consider Joe Johnson a Celtic pick considering he was on the team half a season)
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I am the stone that builder refused..I am the visual...The inspiration..That made lady sing the blues....I'm the spark that makes your idea bright.....The same spark that lights the dark....So that you can know your left from your right...I am the ballot in your box....The bullet in your gun...The inner glow that lets you know...To call your brother son....The story that just begun...The promise of what's to come...And I'm 'a remain a soldier till the war is won....
I agree
That does not make the Artest for Greene/draft pick a bad deal.
I agree with you there. It was probably necessitated by the plethora of bad deals and decisions that preceded it. But if “W-e a-r-e r-e-b-u-i-l-d-i-n-g,” why follow that up by signing Beno and Garcia to MLE deals? These are stopgap measures meant to keep the team “competitive.” The Kings brain trust (I use that term lightly) still really haven’t fully committed to a full rebuild with their playing of the vets. They still seem to think the team as constituted is better than it is. They are still in denial, and the awfulness of their record is only now barely starting to sink in.
I agree with the comments of playing Spence more, playing Greene more, playing Bobby Brown more, playing JT more, playing Martin the same or more. If that’s the future, let’s play it. Certainly after the trade deadline, that lineup has to get more burn.
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on Feb 1, 2009 7:54 AM PST up reply actions
I disagree with that to an extent (or to a large extent)
I think Garcia was signed with the intent to keep him, in large part because he’s viewed as a valuable role player. Whether you believe in that value right now is okay; he’s got time to re-convince you.
Beno’s signing was done at a time when the team didn’t have a point guard. Not a single one. It was a function of timing, and the Kings situation. Yes, it’s not ideal with the way Beno has played, but, on the other hand, it’s also possible that Beno could become valuable in the future.
Martin can’t play more than 48 mins in any regulation game. And it seems like he’s getting 38 already. I think his min’s are okay. I would like to see Brown play more D, and I would like Spencer to know where his shots are coming from, and when he should be taking them. I want to see JT & Shawes together as a tandem, as it’s increasingly clear Miller no longer belongs on this team.
Just because you have Garcia and Martin signed to deals, doesn’t mean you can’t rebuild. MIlwaukee signed Redd to a big deal, and was rebuilding. In fact they’ve been up & done since. And Redd makes more than Martin and Garcia combined on each contract. I think, all things considered, the Kings are okay here CC. It’s just going to take time.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I am the stone that builder refused..I am the visual...The inspiration..That made lady sing the blues....I'm the spark that makes your idea bright.....The same spark that lights the dark....So that you can know your left from your right...I am the ballot in your box....The bullet in your gun...The inner glow that lets you know...To call your brother son....The story that just begun...The promise of what's to come...And I'm 'a remain a soldier till the war is won....
And thanks for the compliment, CC
It’s nice to know that you are either stalking my old posts or that my stuff resonates with you so clearly.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
A broken record
rarely skips and is easy to keep track of.
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on Feb 1, 2009 8:34 AM PST up reply actions
Deny if you want, you big lug, but-
YOU LIKE ME!!! YOU REALLY LIKE ME!!!
You know it. I know it. And now all of StR knows it. CC <3’s section.
SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!
Even Superman
needs a foil.
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on Feb 1, 2009 2:32 PM PST up reply actions
Ainge looked bold after his trades worked
he looked desperate before he made the trades.
"We are in the business of kicking butt and business is very, very good." - Charles Barkley
It's kinda hard not to work
when those deals bring you Kevin Garnett and Ray Allen.
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on Feb 3, 2009 6:29 AM PST up reply actions
I'm not saying they weren't brilliant moves at the time
I’m just saying that prior to making the moves his job was in big jeopardy, his reputation was sinking like a rock and they had only won 17 games with Paul Pierce that season. Doc Rivers and Ainge were getting blasted in the Boston and national media (go back and look at Bill Simmon’s posts) and everybody was talking about how far this storied franchise had fallen with Ainge at the helm.
Now you could make a good argument that Ainge made that move because he was up against the wall and at that point and had nothing left to lose. There is no doubt that if Boston had kept their lottery pick that Ainge (and Doc Rivers too) would be gone and Boston would still be rebuilding. You could also make an argument that would pick my ears up that maybe part of the reason we are where we are is that Petrie has gotten complacent because the Family has not put that kind of pressure on him, i.e., “this is Geoff’s job for as long as he wants it.”
I just made up that quote but Joe and Gavin have made statements like that many times. Mike Shanahan was fired by an owner with whom he had a close 14 year relationship with after another non playoff season taking him and, the NFL and media totally by surprise. As we reach new franchise lows with almost every game and as ARCO echos like a new house because of the empty seats it’s possible that you could make a compelling argument that if Petrie isn’t a big part of the problem who is?
And……just for the record, the the Celts have proved their critics wrong there was a ton of doubt when Ainge brought Allen, Pierce and KG together. You have to respect his boldness and I do but all I was saying when Ainge made his trades it was far from a sure thing at the time and it was a decision made from having nothing to lose not from strength.
"We are in the business of kicking butt and business is very, very good." - Charles Barkley
Bj
If the Kings are this bad heading into the 2010-11 season, I will agree with your statement on Petrie. Until then, I won’t agree.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I am the stone that builder refused..I am the visual...The inspiration..That made lady sing the blues....I'm the spark that makes your idea bright.....The same spark that lights the dark....So that you can know your left from your right...I am the ballot in your box....The bullet in your gun...The inner glow that lets you know...To call your brother son....The story that just begun...The promise of what's to come...And I'm 'a remain a soldier till the war is won....
Denver was stupid on Shanahan IMO
but I get the gist of the rest and mostly agree that he could be in jeopardy. Who wouldn’t be in this situation?
So imitate the action of the tiger!
Stiffen the sinews, summon up the blood,
Disguise fair nature with hard-favoured rage.
- lend the eye a terrible aspect,
Now set the teeth....and teach them how to war.
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Feb 3, 2009 10:27 AM PST up reply actions
Correction
The Celtics won 24 games the season before last, their low point. But otherwise you make some solid points. There are no sure things, and hindsight is a wonderful thing.
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on Feb 3, 2009 6:37 PM PST up reply actions
I guess Danny Ainge
could be a role model.
From 24 wins to 66 wins and a title.
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on Jan 31, 2009 7:36 PM PST up reply actions
On pace for 17 wins
after a 2-14 January.
Looking ahead:
- Three games against OKC, including two at home.
- Home and road vs. Memphis and the Clips.
- A game at Washington.
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on Jan 31, 2009 8:07 PM PST reply actions
Why is this team's current state so hard for you to come to grips with?
You post things like this:
The Importance of Drafting in the Top 5
But then you complain when the team is in position to draft top 5?
I think you understand that for a team to compete for a title they need at least one very very good player and preferably 3 players in the all-star caliber to super start caliber range.
Maybe we have one player that fits in that category(I think Kevin is all-star caliber, though his injury problems over the last two seasons give me some pause). If you’re a super optimist we may have two(Kevin and JT). I don’t know how you can complain about a GM that has obtained the possibility of 2/3 of our future big 3 while having zero picks in the top 9 over the last 9 years.
Where do you think we should have been finding these Superstars for our future? Should Petrie have worked out a trade for LeBron or Howard? There is next to no chance that we will obtain that type of player thru a trade. You need to draft that type of player.
And low and behold, Petrie has put our team in a position to draft that type of player! Off with his head!
Yes, the team is very bad right now. That’s part of the process. If Martin, JT, Hawes, Cisco and Greene are part of our next great team, or part of trades that net us players that are part of that team, then Petrie has done an excellent job of positioning us where we need to be to take advantage of a very high pick this season and likely one next season as well.
If we come out of the 2010 summer with Martin, JT, Hawes, Cisco, Greene, Top 5 pick ‘09, Rocket’s pick ‘09, Top 7 pick ’10, 1 young prospect obtained before this trade deadline and one Free Agent veteran signing either this summer or next, we’ve got the makings of something. That’s a 10 man rotation right there.
We are right where we should be. If we were a 35-40 win team right now, we’d be drafting borderline starters over the next 3 seasons and we’d be on our way to wasting Kevin Martin’s career. Now, IMO we already waited 2-3 years too long to get to this point. Sure would’ve liked to have had a top 3 pick in say ‘07, netting us a Durant, Oden or Horford. But, I’m glad we’re here now and not 2-3 years from now, which is where we’d have been headed if we hadn’t traded Bibby and Artest.
Time to complete the process and trade Miller, Salmons, Moore, and K9. Bring on the cap space, a young prospect or two and maybe even a ’10 #1 just to really give us some pieces to play with. Go Kings!
Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott
by Kfan in Korea on Feb 1, 2009 12:43 AM PST up reply actions 2 recs
Great comments Kfan
Rec’d for sure
"Let's stop arguing and get together and agree on who really is the problem: PEACHES" - HighTops
Joining Ed
On the riding Kfan’s nuts bandwagon. We can’t complain about rebuilding, and then watching rebuilding, and complain it takes too long to rebuild. You can’t have both sides. You gotta do one or the other. The Kings made their choice, and too late unfortunately.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I am the stone that builder refused..I am the visual...The inspiration..That made lady sing the blues....I'm the spark that makes your idea bright.....The same spark that lights the dark....So that you can know your left from your right...I am the ballot in your box....The bullet in your gun...The inner glow that lets you know...To call your brother son....The story that just begun...The promise of what's to come...And I'm 'a remain a soldier till the war is won....
As I pointed out above
Petrie hasn’t “put our team in a position to draft that type of player” consciously.
He’s made the kind of moves that indicate he’d rather win 35-40 games a year, put a competitive product on the floor and butts in the seats and get that 10-12 pick. It’s just that his moves aren’t quite as slick as he thought they’d turn out.
So in a way, he’s lucky he’s made some bonehead moves that have led us to these depths. The question remains: can he lead us back to the promised land, or are we destined to be the laughingstocks of the league for the next decade?
I am not so sure we need to draft the “superstars for our future.” As Petrie indicated recently, we have to keep an open mind. That includes possible trades of our “future” players for players who are already stars.
Again, look at how Petrie assembled the core of our best team:
1996
- Peja: draft pick.
1998 - Webber: trade.
- Signed Adelman to coach the team.
1999 - Divacs: free agent signing.
- Pollard: free agent signing.
2000 - Hedo: draft pick.
- Jackson: free agent signing.
- Christie: trade.
2001 - Bibby: trade of a draft pick.
If you follow that course, maybe Kevin is that draft pick that you hold onto, but maybe not. Maybe it’s JT. Maybe it’s both of them, but you are willing to trade the picks and pretty much the rest of the lineup, including Spencer, Greene, Cisco, for pieces of the puzzle, and sign a Vlade-caliber player to a free agent deal. And make some other less splashy but effective free agent signings.
At best, we are at the 1996 level, and the other moves have yet to be made. So it could easily take a five-year plan to make this franchise relevant again.
At some point, we are going to need a real coach, but Natt might be OK for another long season while we assemble a roster for a real coach to handle.
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on Feb 1, 2009 8:31 AM PST up reply actions
Disagree
He’s made the kind of moves that indicate he’d rather win 35-40 games a year
Those kind of moves would have been keeping Bibby and Artest. Are we worse that Petrie thought we’d be? Maybe, but you can’t go by what is said to the press, you just can’t. So, we don’t really know, and probably never will.
I am not so sure we need to draft the "superstars for our future." As Petrie indicated recently, we have to keep an open mind. That includes possible trades of our "future" players for players who are already stars.
Of course, but the Webber trade is the only one that includes a superstar and we needed a #3 pick to get that done(#3 pick > Billy Owens > Mitch Richmond > Chris Webber). I don’t think you can count on another player of his caliber being available as a cornerstone of your rebuilding plan. Even so, we are where we need to be.
At best, we are at the 1996 level, and the other moves have yet to be made. So it could easily take a five-year plan to make this franchise relevant again.
If you mean the 96-97 season, maybe. But remember we made the playoffs in the 98-99 season, and were “relevant”.
Sounds like we are right where we should be.
Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott
by Kfan in Korea on Feb 1, 2009 11:29 AM PST up reply actions
Not only was the 3 pick to draft Owens that netted Richmond that netted Webber
The 3rd pick was in 1991, and on the heels of the uber successful Dick Motta era. (Read that as sarcasm.)
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I am the stone that builder refused..I am the visual...The inspiration..That made lady sing the blues....I'm the spark that makes your idea bright.....The same spark that lights the dark....So that you can know your left from your right...I am the ballot in your box....The bullet in your gun...The inner glow that lets you know...To call your brother son....The story that just begun...The promise of what's to come...And I'm 'a remain a soldier till the war is won....
Joe Maloof on Petrie
Ailene Voisin’s recent interview with Joe Maloof had some interesting gems about Petrie.
Here is the key section:
Q: So what are your early impressions of Kenny Natt? The team is 4-17 since Reggie Theus was fired. An argument can certainly be made that the team is regressing instead of improving.
A: Well, we’re supportive of Kenny. He’s brought discipline to the organization. I think he has the respect of the players. In my eyes right now, he’s earned his shot after many, many years as an assistant. Right now if I had to vote, I’d vote to bring him back next year. But that’s something we’ll continue to evaluate at the end of the season, and (basketball president) Geoff (Petrie) will make that decision.
Q: Who made the decision to fire Theus?
A: Geoff. Regardless of what people think, we’ve always left the basketball decisions to Geoff. We have strong opinions, though.
Q: Do you anticipate making a trade before the Feb. 19 deadline? There has been a lot of chatter about Brad Miller.
A: That’s up to Geoff. That’s going to be his call. We have all the confidence in him. We had a chance to win the championship and we never hesitated. We never will. That chance comes around once or twice a lifetime. All right, we fell short. So, all right. What do we do to get back there? Our journey includes developing the young players, getting them better, then getting ready for 2010. Why can’t we get some of those great free agents? We’re going to have the cap flexibility. Sacramento … we had great free agents before. We can get them again.
Q: In the meantime, Geoff is being criticized more harshly than at any time in his career, and he only has a year remaining on his contract. How secure is his job situation?
A: There is no situation. We’re all in this together. We’ve always been a team. Everybody has their responsibilities. He’s passionate, he works hard. Nobody has a better eye for talent. That’s been proven again with Jason Thompson. Everybody was saying it was a terrible pick, but look how well he’s done. Spence … we like that pick. Geoff is here as long as he wants to be.
Since they’ve “always left the basketball decisions to Geoff,” that kind of undercuts some of the pass Petrie is given for the really bad decisions like hiring Musselman. The good news, unless you are in the growing camp that Petrie has lost his touch, is that Petrie is firmly in charge of what happens next.
Joe also mentions some players he thinks are part of the future: Martin, JT, Hawes, Greene. No mention of anybody else.
"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."
by coolcatreportdotcom on Feb 1, 2009 7:42 AM PST reply actions
That's funny
Geoff. Regardless of what people think, we’ve always left the basketball decisions to Geoff. We have strong opinions, though.
What the fuck does that even mean? If the boss has a “strong opinion”, that has a huge affect on any decision.
Employee: Hey Boss, we need a new copier and I think we should go with the Xerox.
Boss: The Xerox? Really? I hate the Xerox. Now the Cannon is very nice. I like the Cannon. But hey, it’s your decision. We leave the office management to you. I like the Cannon, but it’s your choice.
Employee: …… (guess I’ll get the Cannon).
I think you have to assign credit/blame for the moves to “Management” and have that include the Maloofs and Geoff. Though I think if Geoff had had his way Adelman would still be the coach.
Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott
by Kfan in Korea on Feb 1, 2009 11:40 AM PST up reply actions
I found that passage very interesting
And what I took in that, was Joe was trying to backpedal off the accusation they meddle. By saying that Geoff has always run the franchise, when he hasn’t, it makes Joe look that much more silly. If you take Joe at face value, you’re reading what you read, rather than what Joe is really saying.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I am the stone that builder refused..I am the visual...The inspiration..That made lady sing the blues....I'm the spark that makes your idea bright.....The same spark that lights the dark....So that you can know your left from your right...I am the ballot in your box....The bullet in your gun...The inner glow that lets you know...To call your brother son....The story that just begun...The promise of what's to come...And I'm 'a remain a soldier till the war is won....
The next few moves
will establish GPs legacy – or sink it in cement.
(okay, maybe a little dramatic)
So imitate the action of the tiger!
Stiffen the sinews, summon up the blood,
Disguise fair nature with hard-favoured rage.
- lend the eye a terrible aspect,
Now set the teeth....and teach them how to war.
Henry V iii
I posted something similar in an earlier thread
Petie has already solidified his legacy with his work in the mid 90’s thru the early oughts but if he is able to take this franchise back to the playoffs and beyond he will elevated his legacy from a good to very good or great GM. If he’s not able to rebuild the team he will retire with a reputation as a good GM who was a one trick pony.
Also, you forgot:
JWill Draft
1998
"We are in the business of kicking butt and business is very, very good." - Charles Barkley
I don't remember your post
but its possible I stole the thought from somewhere.
So imitate the action of the tiger!
Stiffen the sinews, summon up the blood,
Disguise fair nature with hard-favoured rage.
- lend the eye a terrible aspect,
Now set the teeth....and teach them how to war.
Henry V iii
by lietothegirls on Feb 3, 2009 9:42 AM PST up reply actions
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