Beno vs The Coach, Round 2

by Ziller on Jan 4, 2009 11:31 AM PST in Commentary Comment 22 comments

Kenny Natt yanked Beno Udrih early and kept him out but for a spell to open the second half. After the game, Melody Gutierrez got this from the coach:

"Not doing his job, that's one way of putting it," Natt said. "Not playing with the intensity and the effort that I know and we all thought he would do and he did last year. So, that's a challenge for him. … Beno is our point guard, but we are having to play other guys out of position and that's not a good thing for us."

For what it's worth, I thought Beno played fine in his first stint -- no bad play sticks out. (I'll go back and watch again to see what I missed.) But Natt pulled Beno at the same time he pulled Francisco Garcia, who picked up three fouls in a couple minutes. Here's what Beno is saying about it:

"It's really hard to say," said Udrih, who signed a five-year deal with the Kings during the summer. "His eyes see it that way and my eyes see it this way. So, I guess we will have to discuss that. I can't really talk about it. I just see different stuff on how our plays go through."

I don't mean to overblow the stakes here, but what happens between Beno and Natt the rest of the season could be the difference in Udrih becoming a helpful, reliable point guard or becoming wasted salary. If Udrih embraces Natt's tough love, he can be acceptable or better in a Kings uniform. If not, the current coach will shove him aside for a Bobby, and a future coach might not have much use for him.

I'd be lying if I said I'm not prejudging the battle based on Beno's history with tough-lovin' Gregg Popovich. Also, I wouldn't think the same way I do if Jerry Sloan hadn't taken this philosophy to impossible success and if Natt hadn't been at Sloan's side for a good portion of said success.

0 recs | Comment 22 comments | Share

Story-email Email Printer Print

Comments

Some positives

Natt is being somewhat flexible and trying to put a decent team on the floor, even if, as he says, they are out of position.

It’s kind of tough when Kevin Martin is both your best scorer and your best point guard.

It is fun to watch the team compete hard and make some progress. Moral victories may count more than real ones at this point, although it would be nice to get a few of those as well.

"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."

by coolcatreportdotcom on Jan 4, 2009 11:54 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

+1

Great line:

It’s kind of tough when Kevin Martin is both your best scorer and your best point guard.

When I watched the game last night I kept thinking that Martin was playing the best all around offensive game I had seen him play. He continuously broke down the defense and dished to wide open players. Since when did K-Mart become a play maker?

In regards to Natt, I still want to see him handle a complete roster. I would also like to see him show John Salmons the same tough love that he has shown Beno. The next time I see Salmons dribble out the entire clock or dribble into a triple team and still try to shoot, I want him on the bench. The next time Mikki Moore plays a 6 minute stretch without a single rebound, I want him on the bench. I guess I just want some consistency with the rest of the team, not just Natt publicly picking on Beno Udrih.

Hot dogs, get your hot dogs.

by jjham15 on Jan 4, 2009 12:27 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs

Last paragraph

Is spot on

Never forget: I am a complete idiot

by Exhibit G on Jan 4, 2009 12:29 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I agree with the last paragraph too

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on

by pookeyguru on Jan 4, 2009 9:30 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I agree, too

But if Natt follows that path we’re going to wind up playing with four guys on the floor. I guess it eventually worked out in “Hoosiers,” though. Do you think Jimmy Chitwood will be available when we pick?

SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Jan 4, 2009 9:32 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

If Kenny Thomas says “I think it’s about time I start playin’ ball again”, I think my head could explode with joy.

Never forget: I am a complete idiot

by Exhibit G on Jan 5, 2009 10:37 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

The "tough love" approach does not work with Beno

It’s not going to motivate him or make him play better. He’s just going to tune it out and get worse. This is why he didn’t thrive under Popovich and why he won’t thrive under Natt. And it’s too bad too. Point guards that play under a tough love type of coach do well. For example, Tony Parker and Deron Williams are pretty good point guards.

So, it’s too bad that Beno can’t just man up and play hard. If you don’t want any adversity in your job, go become a florist. If you want to play pro ball then rise to the occasion when someone challenges you; that’s what competition is!

www.mancancook.net

by vfettke on Jan 4, 2009 12:47 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Beno has not been delivering

Natt has two choices – play him because you pay him or try and fold, bend and not mutilate him to play the that is expected of him. The guy has the same talent as last year but his lack of game discipline is of particular annoyance to a discipline disciple like Coach Natt (and Sloan and Popovich). The Kings did not have Natt in place when they signed Beno and Artest controlled the offense for the second half of the season without Bibby. Further, Kevin Martin was healthy so plenty of options on offense, his risk to turn the ball over was greatly diminished. The season ended without a PG and he was the best available at the time. Better to pick the poison you know than the one you do not. From Slovenian Tasmanian to Slovenian Cockamamian.

by betweentheeyes on Jan 4, 2009 12:49 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Same talent but...

Beno’s shot selection has gone to hell in a hand basket. Again, I have beat this point to death but if your starting point guard and small forward refuse to shoot three point shots, the defense collapses on your post players and your spacing goes away. For the Kings to be effective, either Salmons or Beno have got to stretch the defense or Natt needs to install either Garcia as the starting three or Brown as the starting point.

This team has a strange mix of players and neither Natt nor Theus mix the pieces well at all. The Salmons/Martin experience is going to play itself out quickly or Salmons will be on the first train out of town. Look for a lot more of Martin with the ball in his hands and a lot more of Garcia running a point three with Jackson/Brown running the point alongside Martin.

Oh yeah, great line:

From Slovenian Tasmanian to Slovenian Cockamamian.

Hot dogs, get your hot dogs.

by jjham15 on Jan 4, 2009 1:19 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I think Salmons might need to go

It’s unfortunate but true. Having Cisco start gives the Kings some energy as well as that three point threat that the opposing team will have to worry about. Salmons has the talent to be a 6th Man of the Year candidate coming off the bench. But, for whatever reason, he plays like crap coming off the bench.

If Salmons could play well off the bench then switching him and Garcia in the rotation gives us more depth from our second unit, and improves the effectiveness of our starters, thus making us a better team as a whole. It’s just too bad Salmons can’t do it.

www.mancancook.net

by vfettke on Jan 4, 2009 2:58 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Salmons has been playing great

but for that same reason some teams may be willing to give more for him. I’m not sure he’s a complement to Kevin so as you said we may be better off having a shooter like Garcia playing with him. I wanna see how Salmons and Kevin play with each other the next couple games to make a better judgement whether their games don’t really go together. One way or another I think Salmons’ trade value is the highest out of all the Kings we may need to ship out.

by eduardo_m7 on Jan 4, 2009 3:07 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Salmons is the best shooter on the team

Both from beyond the 3pt line and average. Yes his game is based on dribble penetration and finishing at the rim, which makes him the most versatile scorer on the team. If anyone can coexist with Martin, it’s Salmons, and his offense and defense are better than Cisco’s so that’s why he’s starting.

Everyone on this team is totally confused by the firing of Theus and the new structure of Natt.
Theus was push, move ,& attack the paint. Natt is slow, pass & look for open jumpers. It’’s no secret why Beno, Salmon and other aren’t sure of what their doing. Heck, Natt’s going further away from playing the rookies than Reggie ever was.

In the last game, Martin showed that having a player who can attack the paint and dish out assists really opens up the offense. Well, we have 2 players that can create their own offense and attack the paint in Salmons & Martin. The difference is that Martin gets into the paint and looks for contact and to shot a jumper, while Salmon looks to finish at the rim. And, if Beno and a couple of our bigs ever learn how to run a desent pick & roll, we’d have 2 more players who can shot short jumper or finish at the rim.

Play the game from the INSIDE OUT, now how many times have I heard that phrase. Only by attacking the basket inside, and dishing outside followed by passes to the open man, will we ever stop the defense from collapsing into the paint and get them to play us straight up.

I will admit that Salmons first choice is to drive to the rim, which isn’t a bad thing, if he’ll start passing the ball back outside when he gets double teamed. John is known to pass up an open 3pter even when he’s open, and that just has to stop. But, Salmons offensive skills will keep the defense from keying on Martin, and that can only lead to good things for the KIngs.

"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom

by HighTops on Jan 4, 2009 5:01 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Salmons

Played great while Martin was out and he was our primary offensive option.

He seems to be playing less well since Martin came back. Which bothers me a lot, since he is the same guy who pouted about coming off the bench behind Artest and played poorly.

Coming to you live from the land of interim coaches.

by LeaguePassAddict on Jan 4, 2009 6:28 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Recheck the numbers

In the 3 games since Martin returned, Salmon scored 15, 21,& 13 ppg on .425 shooting and 4 or 9 from 3pt range for .445. And, he had 18 rebounds and 13 assist. That’s 3ppg less than his season aver, but able to produce 6 rpg vs 3.6 for the season, & 4.3 apg vs 3.2 aver for the season.

Considering the amount of time Martin controls the ball, I feel Salmons ability to maintain a good scoring average, while contributing more in assists and rebound to be quite remarkable. All this while Natt changes the entire flow of the offense from a uptempo drive and penetrate offense to a walk the ball up, pass and look for open jumpers offense.

"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom

by HighTops on Jan 4, 2009 8:26 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

if you trade Salmons

what happens when KMart gets injured (again)?

by betweentheeyes on Jan 4, 2009 10:22 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs

Solid point there.

Can’t argue.

On the other hans, I will say that Salmons eventually needs to go – there’s not question about it. He’s too old to be a difference maker when this team is good again. The question is when. His value is really high right now, and the team can’t get a lot worse.

Shut up and Coach

by Carl on Jan 4, 2009 10:49 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I don't believe Salmons value will decrease in next 14 months

With Salmons ETO in 2010 which I expect him to exercise, I believe he will insure that his value stays up until the 2009/2010 trade deadline. Until then there’s no need to trade him, unless we get the perverbial OFFER YOU CAN"T REFUSE. He’s our backup incase KMart gets injured, and will fill the SF position nicely until hopefully Greene is ready.

With a high 1st rounder , a late 1st rounder and Miller’s contract we should be able to fill our needs at PF & PG for right now if not into the future. And, I expect GP can find us another backup SG after the draft. And, as Section once pointed out, there will always be vets willing to sign a Vet MIn contract to backup our youth.

"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom

by HighTops on Jan 4, 2009 11:37 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Well...

Having Cisco start gives the Kings some energy as well as that three point threat that the opposing team will have to worry about.

Cisco has been pretty terrible as a starter this year, and Salmons has been the best player on the team with Martin out. Yes, Salmons dribbles too much, but he has also been extremely effective.

Shut up and Coach

by Carl on Jan 4, 2009 7:06 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

We had a thread here a couple of days ago about the lack of trust among the players on the Kings and the effect it was having

on team ball. I saw a lot of team chemistry last night and Kevin with 6 dimes was huge.The two players who exhibit the least trust of their team mates in my view are Beno and John Salmons. I know Beno can distribute, look back to last season when the Kings first signed him, he was very effective at the point and compared to Bibby he looked like a pure point guard.

Obviously I have no idea what’s going on with Beno but whatever his issues are, they are diminishing his level of play and effectiveness. Based on what he has said (though not the way he has played) he started this season feeling the responsibility of getting paid to be the starting pg. I remember last season or the season before when Mikki had just gotten his contract and he got off to a slow start and he said that because of the burden of his contract he was pressing to make things happen and not playing his game.

There is clearly something going on between KNatt and Beno which causes Natt to call Beno out in public and bench him when he doesn’t treat his other players the same way even in situations where I would assume discipline is warranted. It has to be the way Beno is responding to KNatt is practice and in the game. I don’t know if Beno feels comfortable tuning Natt out because Beno feels it’s probable that Natt is out at the end of the season or if there is a personal level of dislike or disrespect. Whatever the reason, iId bet Beno doesn’t understand the risky position he’s putting himself in and the damage he could be doing to his reputation and career going forward.

It is a player’s league but a moderately talented MLE pg who has yet to prove himself doesn’t have the same juice as a Kobe, Lebron or even Kevin Martin does. If Beno is picking his battle here thinking he can out spit an interim coach he is sadly mistaken. He’s going to end up with a reputation as being soft AND uncoachable. This would appear to be a situation where GP could insert himself and get Beno to see the light, if not Beno is going to be getting starter’s pay and bench minutes which is never a recipe for career or team success.

With regard to John Salmons I agree with eduaro that’s it too soon to judge if Salmons and kevin can play well together. Salmons is playing above his contract and it seems that his trade value would be high. He is great value for MLE money. His and Kevin’s games are totally different but that doesn’t mean they can’t be effective together. Salmons may be the piece that we have to use to make a trade palettable with another team. If it comes down to Salmons or Spencer as a trade sweetner I’d say goodbye John.

"We are in the business of kicking butt and business is very, very good." - Charles Barkley

by Bluejohn on Jan 4, 2009 3:24 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

They don't compliment each other

Salmons would be perfect on a team with a lot of jumpshooters.

Dispite last nights game where we hit a lot of 3s, where KM hit a lot, he, Beno and Salmons all basically depend on penetration to set up thier games. They do it differently but they all do it. Defenses can clog the lane on us – especially with the game on the line, our bigs rarely get open looks near the basket etc..

We have to have a guy – and not our leading scorer, who defenses are going to be keying on no matter what, who can spread the floor and kill Ds from the perimeter.

The positions where you can get that are at PG (occasionally) and SF (often).

Thats why we should cash in Salmons, not because he isn’t good.

"You keep on using that word
I do not think it mean what you think it means"

by lietothegirls on Jan 4, 2009 4:48 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

I think Beno does OK as a catch-and-shoot player

He just doesn’t for some reason.

by Deleran on Jan 4, 2009 7:21 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Cisco can do that

and BJax to an extent.

The problem with Salmons is this: He’s averaging 3.2apg, which is nothing to scoff at, but when’s he penetrates and 3 defenders collapse on him and he still takes the shot, we have a problem. If he’s getting double or triple teamed in the paint, that means one or two guys are open. I have the utmost confidence that if he passes that ball to an open man, whoever gets it can make the shot. But he’s not doing that. Next time we’re going back and forth with a team in the fourth quarter and Salmons drives and shoots wildly over three guys I’m going to rip my hair out.

www.mancancook.net

by vfettke on Jan 5, 2009 1:33 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs