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Around SBN: Jim Irsay: We Can Make It Work With Peyton Manning

A Noodling exodus of a dog kennel, and a bong chewing dip, and how our beloved dipsh*ts can take advantage

After reading this Daily Dime by Chris Sheridan (which doesn't give much stock to me because I consider him, well, a dip), it was interesting to see that he would write about Kenny Thomas. There's a reason he fell out of favor with the coaching staff: He hasn't produced consistently since Adelman left, and even then, wasn't always reliable. So, in a sense, talking about whether Kenny Thomas can be showcased enough is an interesting thought. Can he?

The way I feel is simple: You trade Brad Miller away for cap space, or you get a talented young player in return. Since talented young players are always hard to get, cap space might be easier. And there are a few teams known to want to get 2010 cap space. One, in particular, is the New York Knicks. Would they be willing to deal Marbury for Miller and Thomas? What other possibilities are out there? Hmmm, take it away boys....

Day is night in new york city Smoke, like water, runs inside Steel idle trees to pity Every living things thats died

Gonna hitch a ride Head for the other side Leave it all behind Never change my mind Gonna sail away Sun lights another day Freedom on my mind Carry me away for the last time Oh yeah

Life is like the coldest winter People freeze the tears I cry Words of hail their minds are into Ive got to crack this ice and fly

Star-divide

I already set it up in the beginning, so let's the meat of the argument begin. Why would New York want to deal Marbury for expiring contracts? Because, expiring contracts are more valuable to them in 2010, than 2009, and their cap, as messy as it is, won't be cleaned up until 2010. Why not load another 2 expiring's on? Surely Donnie Walsh is hoping for maybe a better player than Miller or Thomas in return of a trade with Marbury, but by the same token, Sacramento desperately wants cap space to get away from both of those contracts. Right? Marbury is available, shit if he wasn't, he wouldn't have talked all the mess he has in the NY press about this that & the other. (You want specifics, go find them. I'm too lazy. I don't like Starbury. I like his neat 21 million dollars of expiring cap space. And the best part is simple: the Kings can do what the Knicks don't want to, which is buy him out.)

Do I believe the Knicks would consider it? It depends on how bad their financially hurting (not too bad I imagine), and it depends on how much they would want to have some cap room for 2009. Whether they pay luxury tax doesn't matter too much to them, but making a strong run at LeBron in 2010 does. If the Knicks have a ton of expiring contracts (like Brad Miller and Kenny Thomas--those guys are nearly 21 million combined in contracts next season to work with--which doesn't include anybody else on that roster), they perhaps can bring in a star with the collective amount of asset's they've built to bring in a star to bring a winning team back to Gotham.

Clearly, money isn't their issue, but by the same token, you can't have a messy cap and succeed in the NBA over the long haul. The Knicks are a perfect example of this. But, while he's taking the long term approach (no bad deals taken, and only worse one's given away), Walsh has plenty of talent out there on the team that expires already. The Knicks already have Eddy Curry (for just one more season--which gives them another excellent trade chip for the 2010-11 season), on the hook for one more season after 2010, but that's not such a bad thing. They're also on the hook for Wilson Chandler (he's cheap, and young, and fits into D'Antoni's system--he's also talented), and Danilo Galinari would also presumably be on the team as well. Jared Jeffries (another expiring contract the Knicks could package with Curry) will also be on the team as well. So, in otherwords, the mass exodus of bad Isiah Thomas contracts has turned into a conglemrate of net money asset's the Knicks can throw around like a fat cat trying to turn the OJ market.

So, my question is, why shouldn't the Knicks throw their hat into the Kenny Thomas/Brad Miller sweepstakes? Why not throw the Kings an extra 2nd round pick. This is a team trying to draw LeBron right? This is a team trying to snare Chris Bosh right? What about Dwyane Wade? It's conceivable 2 of the 3 would take slightly less money to play @ MSG for the prime of their career's, and to boot, win a championship (another in D-Wade's case) together as the greatest FA class of all time. Everyone will bandy about how the Knicks had all the advantages of the big city to lure those big time FA's, but the truth is, if Donnie Walsh doesn't use those big time advantages to acquire as many asset's as he can, then he's not doing the job the Knicks need. He's clearly the right move for that team at the right time (hello--Mike D'Antoni?), and worse, he's pretty conservative with the type's of players he's acquired over the years. The only negative I can see, is the Knicks not wanting to pay as much luxury tax as they have in the past. But, and I mean this, if there is one team where the luxury tax means absolutely nothing, it's the New York Knicks. In a economic time so troubling that the most famous baseball team of all time just spent 475 million on players in the off-season, the Knicks are a part of that same market.

The NBA is a differnet league when the Knicks are at the top of the game, and worse, if the Knicks do pull off a LeBron James coup, they will be one of the most hated teams in all of the NBA. Knicks fans will be how Laker fans often are now: cocky, beligirent, and out-right cock roachy. Not the real Knick fans (Not that we like them anyway), but the stupid bitch ass crappy wagon fans that jump on a big time moment like LeBron going to the Apple. But, this is still the NBA, and it's still about rings for a guy like LeBron, and the Knicks are nowhere near that. At the moment, they are 6 games under 500 (after that great start), and are sinking as we speak. Sure, they score a ton of points, but they give up a ton of points. This team is nothing, if they don't get LeBron right? Wrong, the summer of 2010 for them is everything, and LeBron is only the start. It's also about Chris Bosh, Dwayne Wade and a lot of older stars who have a chance to opt out (and will likely because of the new CBA looming in 2011), and play the new market, particularly with so many teams out there looking for cap space in that salaciously incredible looming market.

Do I think the KIngs have a chance in 2010? How about a snowball's chance in hell? I also know, that a team like the Knicks, are not likely to find a team with 2 expiring contracts in 2010 around 21 million dollars more available than Brad Miller or Kenny Thomas. The smart move, for the Knicks, would be to offer Stephon Marbury (hold out as long as you can to make Marbury into a longer term money asset for your franchise--why not if you're Donnie Walsh), and if you're the Kings, Marbury's expiring contract is exactly what the doctor ordered. Maybe the cap room doesn't draw a major star in 2009 (I don't really see that being what the Kings can use that cap space for honestly), but perhaps they can make a trade that will allow them to entice a team looking to move a star, and the Kings can get after that star, by making a trade with that cap space. I have players that I would think the Kings would be wise to go after, and players I don't think the Kings would be wise to go after. Let's discuss them shall we?

The "I got talent, but I"m a piss ant shit fuck on some bad fucking teams that couldn't wait to dump me for pennies on the dollar, and Bill Simmons is still mad he had to make that comment about me" category: Zach Randolph is a guy who could help the team in some respects. He's on contract through 2011, meaning, if he doesn't work out, all you have is 1 year left of him, and dealing him in the mega market of 2010 may be easier said than done. Another player in this category might be Al Jefferson. I'm not fond of Al for a ton of reasons. He complains too much, and while he puts up a ton of numbers, he rarely has played on a team where he has made a difference for them. Ever. He's always been paired with a better player (Paul Pierce), and that's the only time he's been able to be on a successful team. That being said, I could see him and Martin working together if the price was right for Sacramento. But, I have a difficult time seeing Minnesota giving up on Al quiet yet. And I'm not convinced he's really what the Kings need.

The "I had my brain explored, and for half a season, I looked like the best Center west of Yao Ming, and yet, maybe I was always an Ike Austin clone all along" category: For those who remember Ike Austin, do not cringe as I do not mean harm, to the Kings, or anybody else, for that matter, so if you need to put on your special person helmet, I will not laugh at you. For 2 minutes. But, if I didn't fear this guy being in the "Ike" category, I would totally think Chris Kaman is a guy the Kings should pursue (provided the Clippers ever made him available--which I doubt unless they thought he couldn't stay healthy). He's young (only 27 for next season), and yet, I get this feeling that he's stuck in Clippers land for life. Either he will reach his ceiling, or as long as Dunleavy is there, he won't allow the Clippers to move him for fear he actually becomes something better somewhere else, particularly for a team like the Kings in their same division. But, Kaman is the type of player the Kings should consider.

The "Section already mentioned it once, and I'm not going into it again, but on the outside Boozer makes sense" category: I don't really know what to say about this at this point. i don't like Boozer (he's a mercernary, a jerk, and he used his son's illness as an excuse to get out of Utah--albeit a reasonable one in his defense), and to boot, he's hurt all the time. I just don't know he's worth it. I can grow to appreciate him (not), but I'm not sure he's really what this team needs. He's not exactly going to bring intensity to a team sometimes lacking it. There is talent on this Kings team, and I'm not sure an over the top piece is what the team really needs (See Sixers, Philadelphia). I do think this team needs a veteran big man who can bring out the best of JT & Shawes regardless whose on the court. I also think, the team needs to find a reliable hustling backup who can block shots play post defense, and be an effective role player without needing the ball offensively. This team is very incomplete (also has been hit with the injury bug), has had some bad luck (caught the Knicks at exactly the wrong time), and in general, hasn't always played up to it's abilities. The high draft pick is something the team needs, and can use to attract a top level 2009 pick, and who knows, make the playoffs in 2010. Because as we all know, the Maloof's won't be able to take spending 70 million on a lottery team again.

The "I'm dreaming, and I don't give a fuck what any of you think, and I don't give a shit period, but I want this guy, and I think he's the perfect fit for what this team needs over the long term" category: I'm not in favor of overpaying anybody for the long term, or the short term, but at the same time, I do think this team needs to draw a game changing to the team. I always have liked how he plays (even though I know jaws will drop when I say who it is) because his style has always been condusive to winning on every team he's been on minus the Washington Bullets. Even though he set the record for Technicals (still has it as far as I can tell), and inspired a NBA rule garnerning suspensions after 16 techs, he's still a game changing talent who can make a difference for a team like the Kings. Yep, Rasheed Wallace. When he was young, the only player who ever beat him consistently was Tim Duncan, and I always felt he was matched up wrong on Tim to begin with. Even then, Wallace was an unusual player who jacked up too many shots from 3 (he never got foul calls inside), and sadly, his antics (the tech's), always overshadowed his stellar play. What he could do, and generally did, was play hard, play well with the teammates on the court, and sacrificed his stats for the betterment of his teams. And it showed on the court. Had he not played on the Portland teams in the Jail Blazer era, I think his current time in Detroit would be considered differently. (Yet, if you notice, he's still picking up tech's at alarming rates even now. I don't think it matters a great deal whose coaching.) So should the Kings offer him a 3 year deal in the 7-9 million range? If you can't get an all-star caliber player, and you can't find a talented player to complement your young bigs (Shawes & JT), and you can't find anybody else that really puts you on the radar for a player to make your team better, I say go after Sheed.

Because, for all of Sheed's negatives, he's been on a teams that have averaged (starting with his Bullets stint): 39, 49, 46, 35 (in the 50 game shortened season), 59, 50, 49, 50, and in the interesting 2003-04 season, I think the Blazers were 27-23 when they traded him, and the Pistons of course already a winning team, continued to do so when he got there, and the Hawks won the one game he played for them, in the week where he was the only player to suit up for 3 different teams, but the Pistons did end up winning 54 games in 04-05, 64, 59, and 53 games. (They are currently 21-11 as I write this.) In otherwords, despite aging, the man still has the abilities to play winning basketball, and remains the most talented hooper I've ever seen take the court, including LeBron. So why hasn't he gotten all his talent out? I don't know, but if you ask me, that's the most consistent frustrating thing about him. One moment he plays on the block, the next he shoots 5 3's in a row. But, as I said, he plays with a winning intensity, and if he's got anything left in the tank, he's the perfect type, of "a below the radar move" for the Sacramento Kings,  of player this group needs. I don't think need this team needs fire, but I know it needs to know how to work together, and Sheed can bring some of that.

My last question, of them all, is would Petrie be wise to make a cap space deal for a Stephon Marbury, and would he be willing to buy Marbury out as well? Would the Maloof's? Is there any other form of this deal that could see the Kings also willing to make a deal (like adding Mikki Moore and Quincy Douby, and netting Malik Rose) in return that would see the team garner the rewards of trading away Miller for cap room only? My only question, at this point, would the Knicks bite, and could the Kings swallow the Marbury bullet for the long term implications of making this franchise better? I don't know, but as many have said, a lot can change between now and February. Also, I think it matters a great deal how good your young talent can be when you get around to this summer. You won't find that out unless you deal away some of the older players (Miller & Moore) away to see how Shawes & JT perform. If you find they both are improving at a reasonable rate, than maybe bringing in that over the top star is the absolutely wrong move, and maybe bringing in that lesser glamour idea of the Rasheed Wallace type is EXACTLY what the Kings should pursue. Particularly, if you believe Donte Greene has the type of talent that the team can build around. I'm not of the belief the team has to make drastic moves to improve, but I am of the belief that taking forever to make a decision on how to improve this franchise will hold it back. Therefore, I think the ball is in Geoff Petrie's court. Get goin Geoff. The Evil Cowtown needs you.

(This is a FanPost from a member of the Sactown Royalty community. The views expressed come from the member, and not Sactown Royalty staff.)

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think bigger?

I agree the NY scenario makes sense at this point… why not think bigger? (literally and figuratively). Miller, K9, Douby, Houston’s first rounder for Starbury and Lee. We’d have to use some of the cap space to resign Lee, but i think he’s a perfect first big off the bench guy. Not sure how best to use the cap space next summer, but don’t think an aging Rasheed is the answer…

by longtimelistenerfirsttimecaller on Jan 6, 2009 9:32 AM PST reply actions  

I'm really not feeling the need for David Lee myself

With Petrie’s draft record, and the chance that it will be very low teens, or low to mid 20’s, I’d rather Petrie have that pick to take himself.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on

by pookeyguru on Jan 6, 2009 2:26 PM PST up reply actions  

Been thinking NY since marbury benched.

I can’t believe this is the first time that the marbury for miller/K9 trade has been mentioned all year. I have been joking around telling people we should do this never thinking it might actually come to this. I don’t know if I want that cancer on our team but it doesn’t appear were going anywhere fast. Why not open up 20 million in cap space for next season and send him home like memphis did kwame brown. Maybe we could get their second round pick or something of little value to make it sound a little better for us.

by MITCH FRONTAGE on Jan 6, 2009 10:54 AM PST reply actions  

Hmmmm

I’m not sure I think it makes a difference to NY whether Marbury plays, but for Sacramento, it’s a very bad thing. They don’t need him, and they shouldn’t want him for any other reason than he’s expiring. Buy him out, and watch him get a shot at a ring with the Celtics. He’s not your problem, and he definitely is not a solution.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on

by pookeyguru on Jan 6, 2009 2:42 PM PST up reply actions  

crazy idea?

how about using created cap space on agent zero?

by longtimelistenerfirsttimecaller on Jan 6, 2009 12:17 PM PST reply actions  

No thanks

Not really an Agent Zero fan, although reading his blog entries are amusing.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on

by pookeyguru on Jan 6, 2009 2:42 PM PST up reply actions  

I have suggested the New York trade here before

and think it has a lot of merit. I actually don’t think the Family has to buy him out, put him on the injured list with knee problems or something and encourage him to stay away. Or you could put him on the bench and promote the heck out of him with Koz and Kayte plugging Marbury gear like crazy and maybe you even put a few curious butts in seats, the empty, empty seats. Could be fun, let him fill in for Beno, oh I don’t know, say 20 games. Can you imagine the Kings girls firing thousands of Starbury shoes to the fans in section 214. Then Section could post about how Mrs. Section got hit in the head with a pair and they were the wrong size but his daughter gave them to a girl on her cheerleading squad who was then led astray by an evil boy who only liked her for her………shoes. (Thank you Section) I like it. The possibilities are endless

"We are in the business of kicking butt and business is very, very good." - Charles Barkley

by Bluejohn on Jan 6, 2009 1:28 PM PST reply actions  

You did

I’m not claiming it’s a new idea, or I was the first to suggest it. I also, don’t want to see anything written to that effect. I’m just merely throwing my hat into the ring, and I wanted to give reasons why I think it would work for Sacramento to do so. Onto your points BJ….

I don’t know that people will want to watch Starbury. He’s had a bad run of things, and has acted like a spoiled selfish brat recently. That doesn’t necessarily appeal to people, some of whom are on this blog, who don’t even have a job, let alone pout while making 20 million a year. I think the best thing with Starbury is to view him as a business transaction, that in the long run, which allows more attractive opportunites in the future.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on

by pookeyguru on Jan 6, 2009 2:47 PM PST up reply actions  

Yeah, I would agree with you on that, the best play to see him would in the real expensive seats at Laker games

"We are in the business of kicking butt and business is very, very good." - Charles Barkley

by Bluejohn on Jan 6, 2009 4:55 PM PST up reply actions  

I could be wrong

But I wouldn’t be surprised at all, if NY would only trade him if we agreed to keep him until he could no longer sign with another eastern team. They don’t want to see him show back up on the Celts or a team that could compete with them for a playoff spot.

"Shut up and Coach!"
Vfettke

by SavageBeast on Jan 6, 2009 5:07 PM PST up reply actions  

I don't see how that apply's to the C's (competition for playoff spots)

They’re already going to be in 1 of the top 2 spots guaranteed. They just don’t want him signing in Boston to show them up.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on

by pookeyguru on Jan 6, 2009 5:14 PM PST up reply actions  

Right

Should have been clearer. they don’t want to trade him to the C’s for the same reason we didn’t want Artest playing for the Lakers. He could come back and show them up. But they also don’t want him to a team in the East where he might help knock the Knicks out of a playoff spot. (Not that they are in that position now, but they still have aspirations.)

"Shut up and Coach!"
Vfettke

by SavageBeast on Jan 6, 2009 9:25 PM PST up reply actions  

I think they want something in return for him

That’s why they haven’t bought him out yet.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on

by pookeyguru on Jan 7, 2009 2:20 AM PST up reply actions  

Could be

But there had been talk about them wanting to include in the buyout terms that he couldn’t resign with an Eastern team this year. Turns out that was against NBA rules.

"Shut up and Coach!"
Vfettke

by SavageBeast on Jan 7, 2009 3:39 PM PST up reply actions  

I think Donnie Walsh doesn't like the way he's handled things

And he doesn’t want to let go of Starbury until he’s shaken out every possibility under the sun (you get it I don’t have to go beyond it). And he won’t until he does. It’s just that simple.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on

by pookeyguru on Jan 7, 2009 9:41 PM PST up reply actions  

I don't like the actual idea, but...

I do like the line of thinking in considering Rasheed Wallace. If I’m Rasheed Wallace…I’ve won a ring, and been on contenders for a while, I have more money than some small nations, honestly…why would I help Sacramento?

The guy has never struck me as Mr. Altruism, and I just can’t see why he’d give a damn here. Anyone you pick is going to have warts, and that’s why I like this line of reasoning. At some point, you have to stop saying the Kings need a player like “X” and actually find names, and deal with each person’s plusses and minus. I just think Rasheed…wouldn’t be hungry enough for our situation, if that makes sense.

The more you guys work the trade machine, the happier I am GP is our GM.

by ForThree on Jan 6, 2009 4:22 PM PST reply actions  

Well

I get it. I’m not really sure how to argue he’s great for the franchise, when he hasn’t gotten here yet. It’s obviously a risk, but to be honest, was he a player you were thinking could even HELP the team? I doubt it, which is why I threw it out there.

I agree that coming up with names, and understanding the plus/minuses that players bring is an important part about bringing the solution here. I also thinking not pushing this core past the point of when it’s ready to compete is something this franchise needs to do as well. There’s a lot of young talent here, and mainly what the Kings are really missing is a big who can block shots/play post defense, and rebound at a high rate. But Spencer Hawes and Jason Thompson all do some of those things now, and stand to improve on some of that as they get older and more experienced, which doesn’t begin to mention that Spencer will get stronger, and Jason will figure out his spots better on the floor. Which is why I suggested a Rasheed Wallace type, and I ignored a PG who could be available to the Kings (that they really need—regardless of how the team moves forward with Beno or not) come draft time with a high pick.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on

by pookeyguru on Jan 6, 2009 4:33 PM PST up reply actions  

you don't have to prove you're right

of course that’s impossible, no one knows the future. All we can do is look a the situation you proposed and consider the possiblities.

All I’m saying is when I consider them from Rasheed’s perspective here’s what I think:

“Hmm, I have everything and am looking to cap my career. I’ve got the ring, respect from other players, friends in the league, now I’m going to from (pre- or con-)tender in the East, to a podunk town everyone hates to visit, to play for a team of nobodies in a place that has no nightlife and my friends are all going to make fun of me for being so stupid in the last years of my career.”

In my opinion (could and will be wrong many, many times), it doesn’t seem likely to succeed.

The more you guys work the trade machine, the happier I am GP is our GM.

by ForThree on Jan 6, 2009 5:17 PM PST up reply actions  

I'm not trying to prove I'm right

I know you’re not trying to prove your right vs me, or vice versa. I’m not really sure how to view your points about Rasheed. I think a lot of it does come down to whether he wants to continue to play, or not, and where he wants to do it. I think he would work here, but he could also work in a place like Charlotte (he’s been rumored to be interested there because of his UNC ties and Larry Brown) or even Philly (his hometown). He could also re-sign in Detroit for minimal money too. Who knows? It was just noodling, and the more people want to discuss Sacramento nightlife, the more I want to roll my eyes. Nightlife won’t have squat to do with getting Sheed in a Kings jersey.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on

by pookeyguru on Jan 6, 2009 5:26 PM PST up reply actions  

I read your post twice and couldn't find a rant anywhere.

The proposed Starbury and even the Boozer/Marion trades are essentially salary dumps (which I’m not against) except in the off chance that Boozer/Marion sign here. It’s a given that if a trade is made by the deadline that the player who we trade for is going to come is going to come with baggage and is/are not going to be acceptable to all the fans (including us)

I have no idea who GP and company are considering I only hope that they busy considering trades. The organization doesn’t have to trade Miller/Thomas/Moore this season, they will have closer to their full contract value next season as expiring contracts. As fans we (at least I) want to see something that improves the team happens but I’m not sure that GP feels a sense of urgency to make trades by the deadline. If the organization has made an internal decision to wait until see who we get in the draft before they start moving contracts then we may only see minor trades, ie, QD or Sheldon if that.

So Pookey, that’s the point I wanted to make in response to your post, the Kings don’t have to do anything right now, the same conditions that make some of our players contracts attractive will also make them attractive in the offseason. Now, if nothing major happens by the trade deadline,,,,,,,,,then……….then I expect rants. By the way, I really liked the headings on your post.

"We are in the business of kicking butt and business is very, very good." - Charles Barkley

by Bluejohn on Jan 6, 2009 5:21 PM PST reply actions  

I wasn't ranting

That’s probably why you didn’t fine one. I hope you’re right that there is a sense of urgency to get some deals done as far as moving the veterans off the team. They’re hurting the team more than the young players are, and the only reason I can see the KIngs not wanting to trade Brad Miller tomorrow is for one simple reason. Spencer Hawes isn’t back yet. Other than that, there is no reason not to trade him for a reasonable return (like an expiring contract).

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on

by pookeyguru on Jan 6, 2009 5:27 PM PST up reply actions  

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