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A Problem No Loser Should Have

Now isn't that something: the team's best player returns from injury, and instead of joy at the new competitive level the team's able to reach (two near-wins, yeah!), the best interim star ... grouses.

Asked about his declining production since [Kevin] Martin returned four games before, a frustrated [John] Salmons said it's up to the coaching staff to keep him involved.

"They call the plays, so it's up to them," said Salmons, who hit just 1 of 8 shots Monday and has made 18 of 58 since Martin returned from a left ankle injury that kept him out of 22 games. "There shouldn't be no reason why (he and Martin) shouldn't be able to play together … . That's on them, because it's proven (that he can produce)."

Last night seemed an anomaly: Salmons shot cold, and he took only 8 FGAs. In Indiana, he had 12 FGAs. In Martin's first two games, Salmons had 19 FGAs each. So either Martin completely took over the offense by the fourth game, or the coaching staff shifted the deck, content to watch Martin drop 30 every night instead of watching Salmons struggled to 25.

The complaint is foolish: does Salmons not understand hot streaks? Martin wouldn't be taking all these shots if he wasn't getting off to these ridiculously hot starts -- starts which have kept the Kings in the game, mind you. If the coaches are calling these plays, GOOD. The Kings won't win if Martin is relegated to pip status behind John Salmons.

Salmons has played with Martin for 2-1/2 years now. From Day One, Salmons has been behind Martin, first on the two-guard depth chart and now on the totem pole. I fail to see how John could be surprised he is getting fewer shots with Martin back.

That's on them, because it's proven (that he [John] can produce).

Then produce! Three points on eight FGAs? Come on.

(Am I taking crazy pills here? Salmons should not be complaining about Kevin Martin's scoring output, should he?)

0 recs  |  Comment 52 comments |

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Yeah that supposed high value John Salmons has?

I say take advantage of it, and ship his ass away immediately. You grouse about how many shots Martin gets? Please. This is also more disappointing than the poor play Salmons showed off the bench last season. Because the team looked like a footprint of the Lochness Monster, after the Celtics game, and now, Salmons is complaining about shots. Go figure. Trade him at the deadline for Raymond Felton. (No, really.)

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on

by pookeyguru on Jan 6, 2009 5:43 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

on that note...

taking some inspiration from another article link on the front page…
Potential Charlotte trade

by sactoreg on Jan 6, 2009 6:34 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I'd do that

Provided the Kings could also move Brad Miller as well.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on

by pookeyguru on Jan 6, 2009 6:38 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Perhaps we can figure out a way to

Add New York in with Charlotte, and make this a 3 team trade. Hmmmmm, interesting.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on

by pookeyguru on Jan 6, 2009 6:43 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Here's one 3 way Charlotte/New York/Sacramento

trade that I proposed using the trade machine.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on

by pookeyguru on Jan 6, 2009 6:57 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

i would like to have marbury’s cap space available this summer, and i would like to have felton, so i like this trade.

what makes me a little nervous with all trades involving felton is that his contract is up this summer…

by sactoreg on Jan 6, 2009 7:13 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Yet another reason to like Felton in my opinion

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on

by pookeyguru on Jan 6, 2009 7:30 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

No thanks

That’s just another John Salmons redux.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on

by pookeyguru on Jan 6, 2009 3:02 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Except

he is three years younger, averages 4 more rebounds a game, and is a better defender.

by cbsf on Jan 6, 2009 8:50 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

You're not going to convince me to want him

It was a good thing he left in the first place. Gerald Wallace or Kevin Martin is how I always look at that. I’d rather have Kevin.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on

by pookeyguru on Jan 7, 2009 2:15 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

In a Heartbeat

I would do that trade.

Kings rule! (They are royalty - right?)

by dalt99 on Jan 6, 2009 6:01 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

A perfect way to recap this game (From what I've read in the game thread comments as well as the game recap offered by the AP)
“Mental mistakes once again,” interim coach Kenny Natt said. “We need to get the rebound. I guess Brad didn’t block out, and then he gets a ‘T’ to compound it. That wasn’t New Jersey. That was the Kings. We are our own worst enemy.”

I think that part of the problem is mental approach, and Salmons is frustrated, and doesn’t want to be the secondary star, yet that’s what he is. Oh boy, this season just keeps getting better & better as it rolls along.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on

by pookeyguru on Jan 6, 2009 5:50 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

I guess

John never got that chip off his shoulder he had playing behind AI in Philly.

Are we gonna live together? Together are we gonna live?

by otis29 on Jan 6, 2009 5:56 AM PST reply actions   1 recs

I love that comment

(And your ever changing sig’s.)

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on

by pookeyguru on Jan 6, 2009 5:58 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

If he doesn't like it

bench him and start Cisco. John can be the man for the 10 minutes Kevin is resting per game.

Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott

by Kfan in Korea on Jan 6, 2009 6:12 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Jon cannot be the man unless he IS the man

He’s proven that he’s not as productive when he comes off the bench or when he is not the primary scorer. Even when he was the first option, I think he usually held on the ball too long and didn’t look to pass when the opportunity presented itself (no stats to back me up, but it seemed like every time he had the ball with less than 10 seconds on the shot clock, you KNEW he was going to drive in—whether or not he was double/triple/quadra-teamed).

by clicc916 on Jan 6, 2009 7:58 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Exactly

so bench him.

Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott

by Kfan in Korea on Jan 6, 2009 1:24 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

In Salmon's Defense

I’m not so certain Salmon’s is the outright bad guy here. If you look at the string of quotes, there is no evidence that every individual party is speaking to the same subject thread, nor any evidence that they are talking to each other. While I am not ready to convict the reporter here, I do think there are some gaps in the story that shows room for reporter foul play. Amick summarized the general theme of a question he asked Salmon’s about his production right after his second less than stellar game, we don’t actually know what Amick asked, the question itself could have been leading, and then Salmon’s stated a fact, “he sees less plays called for him.” Granted there were better answers to give, more wherewithall to have been had. But, the next line in the article is a quote from Natt. Suspiciously missing is what Amick asked Natt. I doubt Natt was standing next to Salmons when Salmons said he doesn’t get as many plays as he used to. Nor do we know how Amick instigated Natt’s response. Did he say, “Coach Natt, do you think Salmons’s production has gone down because he has less plays called for him?” or did he say, “Hey Coach, Salmons just told me it’s on you that he isn’t scoring as much anymore, care to comment?”

Now there’s no forgiving the comment, “It’s just ridiculous.” Although again we don’t know the context.

Then, the next line, “Martin…said he doesn’t see it as a systematic problem…” is ripe with journalistic deficiencies. Martin is never quoted saying “it is not a systematic problem.” That is the reporters inference from Martin’s following quote which does not imply that Amick was asking whether or not Salmon’s decreasing production was systematic. The parenthetical (to keep everybody involved in the offense) is the only evidence to the nature of Amick’s unstated question and it does not necessarily relate specifically to Salmons. It only relates to Salmons because Amick used the quote in an article about Salmons.

So in one instance Amick sets up Salmon’s to lash out at either his coach or his teammate. The next instance he sets up Natt to lash out at his second best player, then sets up the best player on the team to answer a question ambiguous enough that the answer can be construed as either lashing out at his teammate or his coach. It all sounds a little too much like playground manipulation to me.

by BrooklynFan on Jan 6, 2009 8:04 AM PST reply actions   1 recs

The blog entry I think explained it a bit better Brooklyn

It sort of supplemented some of your points. (Salmons was not the only one in the unhappy department.)

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on

by pookeyguru on Jan 6, 2009 8:09 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

To the Kings blog?

Yeah, okay, but this is required reading from now on. (The blog, not the article.)

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on

by pookeyguru on Jan 6, 2009 8:23 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Course

Anytime I don’t link something, you can probably bet it’s related to what you were talking about. (Just FYI, since it was too unclear what I was referring to.)

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on

by pookeyguru on Jan 6, 2009 3:03 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

... and more in defense of John

The point has repeatedly been made that other guys on the team besides Martin need to score for the team to win. If what John is saying is true then the coaching staff is putting too much of the offense on Martin. John is the 2nd offensive option (after KM) and he should be getting his looks too, not only to balance the offense but to lessen the defensive pressure on Kevin. Kevin can pace himself better too so he isn’t completely gassed in the 4th quarter like he has been in the last couple of games. John’s carried the team the entire time that Kevin has been out so he’s got to have at least earned some respect. My perception is that it’s a balance thing and the coaches have some tinkering to do in order to get the right blend of team offensive.

by hozr on Jan 6, 2009 2:32 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

true

but I still don’t think they compliment each other. Maybe they figure it out soon and prove me wrong.

"You keep on using that word
I do not think it mean what you think it means"

by lietothegirls on Jan 8, 2009 3:22 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

They seem to complement each other

when they put KM on the left wing and JS on the right wing and BM (and sometimes MM) on the high post. No matter which way the ball swings (if the Kings are in fact swinging the ball that night) they have someone who can dribble penetrate and kick out as needed. BM got a bunch of wide open jump shots when they did that the other night.

by hozr on Jan 8, 2009 3:32 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

They don't kick out

and Brad and sometimes KM is the only one who does the ‘catch and shoot’, your big is almost irrelevant in that equation because its only an occasional threat.

KM and Salmons both depend on pounding or moving with the ball, salmons much more than Km of course, but there needs to be another option…

"You keep on using that word
I do not think it mean what you think it means"

by lietothegirls on Jan 8, 2009 11:02 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Saying the same thing in every thread multiple times

doesn’t make it right.

Martin is one of the best pure shooters in basketball, Salmons is totally different in that he is primarily a slasher/driver. Its hard to complain when your two best weapons are so wildly different in terms of their skill set.

If we could get Kevin 20 open jump shots a game, clean looks with his feet set, how many points would he score? I’d argue very close to as many as any other player in basketball.

The more you guys work the trade machine, the happier I am GP is our GM.

by ForThree on Jan 9, 2009 8:43 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

There are differences

Salmons pounds the ball to set up his drive. Martin uses a screen to initiate his drive.

Salmons drives with the intent to go to the rim. Martin drives into the paint with the intent of making contact and putting up a jumper.

Martin is more effective with his strategy because teams crowd the paint since neither kicks out to the 3pt shooter very often. And, because we don’t have a dominant big in the low post, who would be set up when his man leaves him to defend the drive into the paint.

Both can shoot the long ball well, and both can be a catch & shot scorer. Although, Martin is the more accurate shooter, both can be highly productive, and Martin works harder running around screens for open looks, and cutting for backdoor layups.

Both would be better if we had deadly 3pt shooters that they could kick to when the lane closed up, and a big who could finish strong in the post. I think your both right.

"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom

by HighTops on Jan 9, 2009 9:49 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I repeat

Martin and Salmons don’t compliment each other

"You keep on using that word
I do not think it mean what you think it means"

by lietothegirls on Jan 6, 2009 11:06 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Do you mean

They don’t say nice things about each other (compliment) or that their games don’t work well together (complement)?

Coming to you live from the land of interim coaches.

by LeaguePassAddict on Jan 6, 2009 12:41 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs


“You look lovely today.”__________"No, you do!"

SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Jan 6, 2009 2:05 PM PST up reply actions   2 recs

Thanks for the clarification.

Seriously, you make me laugh all the time.

Coming to you live from the land of interim coaches.

by LeaguePassAddict on Jan 7, 2009 6:49 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

games don't fit.....

are you being obtuse?
(yeah, injecting a new word to argue about!)

"You keep on using that word
I do not think it mean what you think it means"

by lietothegirls on Jan 8, 2009 3:25 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

You used the wrong word

Cop to your mistake, and move on. Happens to everyone, especially me. So shutup & deal with the fact that you aren’t John Q language.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on

by pookeyguru on Jan 8, 2009 3:38 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Have you no sense of humor?

(sigh)

Coming to you live from the land of interim coaches.

by LeaguePassAddict on Jan 8, 2009 5:17 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I doubt it

Not one you would appreciate that much anyway.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on

by pookeyguru on Jan 9, 2009 6:47 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Martin barely averages 2 assists a game

For a player that touches the ball as much as he does, that’s a sad stat. Part of what makes a great player is the ability to make his teammates better – and this episode is yet another sign that Martin lacks this quality.

I’m not defending Salmons complaining about his individual stats following team progress – that is difficult to excuse. But I am saying that a star player (like Martin) should be working with the players around him to keep them (relatively) happy and involved in the game.

Kobe evolved into such a player – the question is: can Martin?

by thelettere on Jan 6, 2009 11:07 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

If he can't

There’s a place for a ridiculously efficient 25 point per game player on any championship team.

Shut up and Coach

by Carl on Jan 6, 2009 11:22 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I think,

Most of Martin’s shots come from him cutting and receiving the ball in a position to score. He generally doesn’t control the offense like a point guard. I think this probably explains how he gets so many shots and so few assists.

by cbsf on Jan 6, 2009 12:49 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

good and true point

Also, Kevin is not a very good ball handler. In fact, I hate it when he brings the ball up. He is too easily harrassed by good on the ball defenders. His poor ball handling skills are also the reason why he has a difficult time getting shots when defenses really clamp down on him towards the end of games or when there are only a few seconds left on the shot clock.

So, you nailed it: Kevin’s strengths are his deadly shooting, his amazing movement without the ball which allows him open looks, and his ability to get to the line. And there are few guys better at finishing a shot when getting fouled.

by Kusian on Jan 6, 2009 1:39 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Martin had at least 6 assists

a game or 2 ago when he was essentially playing PG.

by hozr on Jan 6, 2009 2:21 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Kobe didn't evolve into that type of player

He generally always got dimes, even when he was 20 years old. Don’t buy into the hype.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on

by pookeyguru on Jan 6, 2009 3:04 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

We have seen enuff over the last couple of years to get a good gauge on John..

It is fairly obvious this guy is not a leader and is only happy and productive when he is a primary focal point. What is also obvious is that any team with John as a focal point is not a good one. He doesn’t do much to make team mates better and his well chronicled habit of pounding the ball is an offense killer. We have all played with type of guy. John isn’t a bad guy but by all accounts he is brooder and not the kind of guy you want young players around especially if leadership is already a major vacuum. Small forward is the easiest position to replace so no big loss…

Damn you Robert Horry!!!

by chupacabara on Jan 6, 2009 12:42 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Agreed

We talked about this a lot last year with his “coming off the bench” fiasco. I can’t imagine his value getting much higher than it currently stands.

Are we gonna live together? Together are we gonna live?

by otis29 on Jan 6, 2009 12:49 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

salmons just plain sucks,kevin is coming off the bench and is still playing like the kevin we know so that shows me that salmons just sucks. trade him asap try to get rid of beno to.

by BXNYKINGSFAN on Jan 6, 2009 2:42 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Salmons sucks?

I wouldn’t go that far. The guy is the fifth best shooting small forward in the league, and he’s been the team’s best defender this season.

Salmons needs to go IMO, but the guy does not suck.

Are we gonna live together? Together are we gonna live?

by otis29 on Jan 6, 2009 2:51 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I think tonight will go a long way

To seeing how Salmons & Martin can co-exist, and how many shots each can get in the rhythm of the offense.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on

by pookeyguru on Jan 6, 2009 3:05 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

How'd that work out?

"You keep on using that word
I do not think it mean what you think it means"

by lietothegirls on Jan 8, 2009 3:27 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Probably not as well as we all hoped

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on

by pookeyguru on Jan 8, 2009 5:13 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

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