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Now the Kings should DEFINITELY sign D-Miles...

10 months ago N3402246_38156321_9624_tiny TrojanCBB 126 comments 0 recs  | 

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Screw'em

They can’t interfere with Miles’ right to want to work

"You keep on using that word
I do not think it mean what you think it means"

by lietothegirls on Jan 8, 2009 9:52 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Holy Crap!

If this is true, do you think that Miles has a helluva lawsuit opportunity against Portland?

SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Jan 8, 2009 10:26 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

I wonder how it will affect his getting paid from them though

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on

by pookeyguru on Jan 9, 2009 2:03 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

That was my thought too section

Darius Miles’ agent must have ambulance chasing attorneys stretched around the block wanting a piece of suing the Blazers for that memo. Honestly, how stupid can an organization be?

The more you guys work the trade machine, the happier I am GP is our GM.

by ForThree on Jan 9, 2009 6:21 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

He'll be sueing Portland sooooooon

"You keep on using that word
I do not think it mean what you think it means"

by lietothegirls on Jan 9, 2009 1:14 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Wow

Thanks for sharing that article, Trojan.

I’d love to see how the lawyers for Portland would try to prove the intent of any team that signs Miles, because that’s what they would have to do. They would have to prove that the signing was malicious in intent, when any team who signs him would simply have to say that they were trying to improve their team in any way they could.

All this aside, isn’t it a bit ridiculous that a specific number of games is required to counteract the diagnosis of career-ending. I understand that there has to be some sort of litmus test, but the guy is clearly still capable of playing the game of basketball at the NBA level (he’s just not a good player at the NBA level anymore).

Never forget: I am a complete idiot

by Exhibit G on Jan 9, 2009 7:09 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Dave of Bedge has now written this

And I suggest reading it if you’re interested in all of it.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on

by pookeyguru on Jan 9, 2009 7:24 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Also

A commenter on Bedge called jscot had this to say about the Miles situation. It is also recommended reading, even though it is very long.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on

by pookeyguru on Jan 9, 2009 7:36 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Thanks for the shout out

I feel important, I’ve been LINKED!

Most of my comments are very long.

If you can't convince them, confuse them -- Harry Truman, U.S. President

by jscot on Jan 9, 2009 8:19 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I Disagree on a Few Points

For the most part, a very good argument, but there are a few points that I do not agree with.

Firstly, this memo is not necessary, as teams have in-house council and contract gurus. They know their rights and obligations. Trying to pawn this off as a simple reminder is like trying to remind your girlfriend not to cheat on you — it comes off as insecure and assanine. The memo is a strong-arm tactic to prevent other teams from signing Miles.

You can argue that this memo only applies to teams who would sign Miles with bad intentions, but now, even a team with legitimate intentions would be unlikely to sign Miles due to the fear/hassle of the law suit that would most likely follow.

Also, for all the whining about contractual interference, the Blazers have just done the same to Miles. Any team that was considering signing Miles (again, even if for legit purposes) is going to think twice and decide it isn’t worth it.

Portland Blazers look like jerks here, plain and simple, and there is no defending them (as some have tried to do). Simply put, for all this talk about contractual rights and illegitmate intentions, it’s Portland who is perpetrating the fraud. They’re getting undeserved luxury-tax benefits (ie, not having to pay) for a player who has clearly not suffered “a career-ending” injury. If the injury was career-ending, the Blazers wouldn’t have to worry about anything.

A jury has to decide by a preponderence of the evidence (figuritively, more than fifty percent) if another team signed Miles for the purpose of interferring with Portland’s $$$. The Blazers have to know that intent is one of the hardest things to prove in a law suit, and thus, are trying to “Debo” other teams into not signing Miles with the threat of a law suit.

Portland has certain rights and protections as an NBA franchise, but I don’t consider fraud (ducking the luxury tax based on a clearly false medical report) and contractual interference (making it less likely for a team to sign Miles) to be among them. I think this stinks, and while the Blazers may have stated that the memo only applies to teams considering signing Miles for illegitimate purposes, we all know the effect it really has.

That’s the beauty of law, though. There are arguments on both sides. Portland likely wouldn’t be able to prove its case to a jury, but the cost of litigation (and more so, the risk of losing big on a contractual tort claim, which allow for punitive damages), is more than enough to deter other teams.

by PhutureKings on Jan 9, 2009 9:02 AM PST up reply actions   3 recs

Very well said

Are we gonna live together? Together are we gonna live?

by otis29 on Jan 9, 2009 9:08 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

A few points

First, some facts that shed some things in a different light.

1. This “clearly false medical report” was the output of a doctor appointed by the League (actually, by the Players’ Association, I believe, to be sure that a player’s interests are protected).
2. This medical report was consistent with what the Blazers’ doctor said. Two opinions.
3. Key Point — this “clearly false medical report” didn’t say Darius could never play again. It said that if he did, there was a high risk of a knee blowout necessitating a knee replacement operation. Therefore, the doctor considered him medically unfit to play, and certified him as such.
4. Portland followed the recommendation of their doctors and the league-appointed doctor. Other teams have chosen not to, and are using Darius as a piece of meat, willing to risk blowing out his knee for the purpose of screwing Portland.

Now, are you so prepared to charge Portland with fraud?

Second, in response to this:

Firstly, this memo is not necessary, as teams have in-house council and contract gurus. They know their rights and obligations. Trying to pawn this off as a simple reminder is like trying to remind your girlfriend not to cheat on you — it comes off as insecure and assanine. The memo is a strong-arm tactic to prevent other teams from signing Miles.

That would be an entirely legitimate response if it weren’t for the fact that unnamed team executives were quoted publicly on Yahoo sports as talking about someone picking up Darius to play him for two games to screw Portland. That happened the day before this email was sent.

Someone was saying publicly, “Someone is going to screw Portland.” Portland responded privately, “Whoever you are, if you do it, we’ll sue.” If it weren’t for the public statements, your assessment would be very sound. In light of those public statements, not so sound. When your partners in a joint venture start talking about ripping you off publicly, you let them know it’s out of line.

Third, you are correct about the impact on Miles’ chances of being signed this year. But it isn’t the Blazers that created this situation. If Miles sues, he sues the league as well as the Blazers, because it is their weird situation with this salary cap rule that has created the problem. You have a situation where a team that followed the rules can get screwed over by another team. Every team that has a player medically retire is vulnerable, because another team can pay him to step on the court for the last minute of each of their exhibition games, someone else picks him up for 2-3 games, and they are screwed.

The result is that the rules allow teams to screw another team by saying a player like Miles, and then those teams could get sued, so no one wants to sign a player like him. The rules as constructed and currently interpreted are unfair to Darius.

Look for a clarification from the league soon on that.

But if you want to accuse someone of fraud, it is a good idea to get all the facts first. The only way that report was fraudulent is if there is no significant risk of Darius blowing out his knee. And if it was fraudulent, the league-appointed doctor was complicit in the fraud. I think you are on shaky grounds to make that accusation.

If you can't convince them, confuse them -- Harry Truman, U.S. President

by jscot on Jan 9, 2009 10:10 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

A few counterpoints

1. Saying that someone acting in an official capacity was approved by the league is not the best way to convince Kings fans. Sorry.
2. The Blazers had something to gain from this. The integrity of any employee cannot be considered absolute in this matter.
3. Good to know – I have no counterarguement on this.
4. I’m pretty sure Darius Miles wants to play. Teams are not forcing him to play, or treating him as a piece of meat.

Never forget: I am a complete idiot

by Exhibit G on Jan 9, 2009 11:50 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Re #1

I don’t actually follow your point here at all. The league and the players’ association appoint the doctor, to ensure that the team and/or the player are not gaming the system by claiming a fraudulent injury.

My whole point on #1 was that you can only say Portland acted fraudulently if you are prepared to substantiate the idea that the independent doctor was a party to that fraud. To do that, you have to impugn the integrity of the independent doctor and potentially those who appointed him. I don’t think even Kings fans should be in a hurry to do that.

Re #2, I agree with your statement. If #2 stood alone, it would be meaningless. Because his opinion is consistent with #1, however, if you want to talk about fraud you are now talking about conspiracy on a pretty significant level, with no substantive evidence to support that.

Re #4, I know Darius wants to play. That doesn’t mean other teams aren’t taking advantage of that desire inappropriately and behaving unethically in doing so. Do you think it was wrong for Portland to follow the advice of doctors, and that they should be penalized for doing so, and accused of fraud?

I know you can put admiration in bags, because admiration is real, and tominhawaii says that everything that is real is measurable.

by jscot on Jan 10, 2009 4:43 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Res Ipsa Loquitor

“The thing that speaks for itself.”

While the legal doctrine of res ipsa is not appropriate here, I still think that a career-ending injury speaks for itself. Thus, if a player is willing to play, and in fact CAN play, then the injury isn’t career-ending. Miles is not being treated like a piece of meat — he is being paid a handsome sum to play hoops, and he knows the risks involved.

We all know Portland wanted Miles out. Period. The situation would’ve worked out for them very nicely if he just went away, but he isn’t. This whole debacle affects Portland’s LT, and also their cap-space (as stated on ESPN.com). I understand that P-Town’s team doesn’t want to have to fork over millions based on a bad-faith contract awarded by another team, but to interfere with Miles’ contractual options in the future is absurd. Especially when every team knows what’s at stake…not only legally, but as a business/trading/comepting/joint-partner. Legal action is one side of it, and business reputation is another. The league would’ve done something about it if another team tried to sign Miles and they suspected bad faith. The memo was not necessary.

Portland wants to avoid paying the salary tax — something they agreed to do if Miles was physically able to play again. The Blazers assumed the risk, and now they’re trying to avoid their worst-case scenario.

by PhutureKings on Jan 9, 2009 3:43 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

If you are in a joint venture

and you find out that one of your partners has been talking in the media the day before about “screwing” you, and it is going to cost you multi-millions, and they will benefit a few hundred grand by doing so, I can bet one thing.

You are going to be in touch pretty quick.

You might read Larry Miller’s comments on this. He said there is no objection to teams hiring Darius to help their team. The objection is to the reports they heard that teams were going to do it to screw Portland.

This email was not sent in a vacuum. It was sent after Adrian W’s report on Yahoo, which came out the day before the email was sent. You can’t read the email in a vacuum.

You might say it wasn’t necessary, but neither were the stupid comments some team exec was making in the media.

I know you can put admiration in bags, because admiration is real, and tominhawaii says that everything that is real is measurable.

by jscot on Jan 10, 2009 4:48 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Oh, and as to the res ipsa argument

that’s somewhat irrelevant. “Career-ending” doesn’t mean the guy can’t get on a court, necessarily. New York has a guy (forget his name) with a career-ending heart condition. He could go out there.

I know you can put admiration in bags, because admiration is real, and tominhawaii says that everything that is real is measurable.

by jscot on Jan 10, 2009 6:15 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Something worth mentioning... I think

Its this simple. Its a Win-Win for the Blazers. As mentioned above most teams won’t likely sign him, also the only way to for a team to sign him with limited hassle is to sign him to a contract for the rest of the year. The thrust of the Letter is to 1. Try and preserve the Blazers Cap space.
2. Create enough hubbub to change the rule and preserve cap space. 3. If Miles does sign with another team the blazers still have space and a much more talented team than 16 other teams in the league.
The most likely reason for this Letter is to create sufficient knowledge of the situation to set up a possible legal argument. Now you would be very ignorant to think that letters like this don’t happen often in the NBA (don’t bid on this player, don’t pick this person, this guy’s not the best for the locker room ect.) Now with Darius Miles lets get some clarification a neutral LEAGUE appointed Doctor looked Miles over and declared him retired, to call this false is not true. Also according to comments made by pritchard its not so much that he is unable to play its that he is not medically safe to play (by the way when he made these comments he was quickly threatened with legal action. Why? Because his statements were true.) Miles is set to make 18 mil. this situation is not threatening his lively hood, there are many other options if he wanted to play Basketball. i can see both sides..

by SamGoody on Jan 9, 2009 6:30 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

A couple of things -

First, I remain adamant that we not sign Miles if we do not need him, and we don’t. Bad ju-ju.

Second, I recall when this was a topic of conversation here earlier in the year and a couple of Blazers fans visited with a “Meh” attittude, appearing not to care of the fate of Darius Miles. Based on the gazillion thread posts on Blazers Edge since the publishing of this memo, it would appear otherwise.

Third, do the Blazers as a franchise prefer to take on Darius Miles in court as opposed to having to pay his $9 million (I think that’s right) contract next year and take on the salary cap implications? Because that is how it seems to me. No matter how the memo is worded, if Miles does not get one more ten day contract between now and the end of the season, he at least has enough to take the Blazers to court, and may have enough to win. And perhaps that is OK with Paul Allen. Perhaps the damages would be less than $9 million, since the memo really only impacts Miles’ employment for this year. And even if “pain and suffering” sent the amount over $9 million, would Allen care if the net result was still the cap space that he craves for a potential big signing in 2009?

Interesting days in Portland.

SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Jan 9, 2009 8:24 AM PST reply actions   1 recs

I think the thing you are missing

Is that regardless of Cap considerations or lux tax…the Blazers (or their insurance carrier) are already paying Darius Miles contract for this year and next….this was never in question. Darius is gonna get paid regardless. The only benefit that Portland got from Mile being medically retired is alleviation of the cap hit (and by extention…the luxury tax). So…..here is the deal the email. The Blazers are telling the rest of the league ……if you plan on bringing Darius in for the sole purpose of making us pay more tax money, we will sue you. End of story

As far Darius suing the Blazers…I don’t really think there is any vulnerablity (or at least limited) due to the fact that Darius is not really being monetarily impacted from the E-mail being sent out (He still gets the 9 mil (or 18 if you count both years) not matter how this turns out. If he were to be signed all he would get is the vet minimum (prorated based on how long he was signed for) in addition to the 18 mil. So the only impact to him by not being signed is the loss a few thousand dollars.

Homer: "Yikes....a bear is eating my father!!"
Selma: "I'm Selma"
Homer: "A talking bear is eating my father!!"

by 92wastheyear on Jan 9, 2009 8:45 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

It doesn't impact his pay significantly this year,

but it highly impacts his chances of earning a new contract in 2010-11 and beyond. Granted, even in the best case scenario, that probably wouldn’t be a large contract, but he has a much better chance of getting something if GMs can see him play and contribute now after such a long time out of the league. Suppose that if he played this year, he might get a veteran’s minimum contract for two years with a team option for the third next year starting next year (sounds realistic to me).

Wouldn’t that be enough potential income to sue over?

by twasserm on Jan 9, 2009 8:50 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Yes, potentially

It arguably delays the rebuilding of his career by half a year. If teams sign and play him next year, Portland isn’t harmed (not in luxury tax territory). So we’re only talking about from now until next preseason.

I’m not sure how you quantify that delay, but it seems unlikely to be worth a significant amount. And he first has to prove 1) that Portland’s email prevented him getting a chance (it was very carefully worded, so hard to prove, even though we all know it made it harder) 2) that he would have been able to get a contract (remember, the Clips and Memphis have now given up on him this year, and Boston, who has a really, really good and deep bench – not).

If he can prove those things, then you try to quantify the damages. But then, you have to recognize that the league will be co-defendants, and some of the liability would be shared.

The liability for Portland, if any, would be peanuts compared to the threatened luxury tax hit this year.

The impact on Darius is the really unfortunate part of this. He should be able to try to go get a job, if that’s really what he wants to do, without teams trying to stab each other in the back. The rules need to be fixed on medical retirements.

(Stupid decision on Darius’ part, IMO. He really ought to stay healthy so he can play with his kid, rather than destroy his knee trying to chase an NBA career. He has money, already, he’s made it in the big time, he doesn’t need this. But it’s his choice, and if that’s really what he wants to do, he should be able to chase it, if teams want to take that risk.)

If you can't convince them, confuse them -- Harry Truman, U.S. President

by jscot on Jan 9, 2009 10:21 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

All good points

This is purely a business decision by Portland, and they stand to benefit greatly. But they were playing the odds that Miles wouldn’t return, and it looks like they are going to lose. Plus, they are going to lose the PR battle in a big way – not that it matters in the longterm scheme of things.

You make many compelling arguments, but that last paragraph is nuts IMO. I don’t think it’s a stupid decision, for a 27 year old to decide to keep pursuing his chosen career rather than staying healthy to play with his kids. You could make that statement about pretty much any NBA player, unless I’m missing someone who’s magically stayed healthy throughout his entire career.

The level of play and the physical nature of the game makes permanent injury a possibility for anyone who sets foot on the court.

Are we gonna live together? Together are we gonna live?

by otis29 on Jan 9, 2009 10:28 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I guess it depends

on how much you believe what the doctors said about the risk.

The guy is almost certainly never going to be what he was, so he’ll never make it to the top. He’s got money, lots and lots of it (and another $9 million next year, too).

If he’s likely, within a year, to blow out his knee and never be able to walk right again, it’s a stupid decision. Of course, the doctors can’t predict the future.

If you can't convince them, confuse them -- Harry Truman, U.S. President

by jscot on Jan 9, 2009 10:38 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Its the Blazers who are about to get sued

for interfereing with his right to work.

The guy WANTS to play, nothing wrong with that. As was mentioned above (by Otis?) the Blazers took a calculated risk and will lose on it…..

"You keep on using that word
I do not think it mean what you think it means"

by lietothegirls on Jan 9, 2009 1:21 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

That's absolutely irrelevant

to the comment to which you were responding. I made a comment about whether it is good for Darius personally to try to play. Otis29 gave a reasonable response as to why he thinks my comment was wrong. I told him why I made the comment.

I didn’t say it is wrong for him to want to play, I said it is stupid for him to risk it. Whether the Blazers get sued is irrelevant to what we were discussing in these comments.

I know you can put admiration in bags, because admiration is real, and tominhawaii says that everything that is real is measurable.

by jscot on Jan 10, 2009 6:19 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Its a knee, not his neck or his heart

NOT life threatening. Thats why I think its silly to talk of whether its good for him personally. Thats silly, he’s an athlete first and foremost.

What, he can’t sell cars later with a bum knee? Or become a lawyer? (whatever) Ask the thousands and thousands of college players who have been injured whether it truly affected thier life ‘after sports’.

"You keep on using that word
I do not think it mean what you think it means"

by lietothegirls on Jan 13, 2009 10:03 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

That's a whole load of horseshit

No offense meant, but you make it sound so simple, yet it really isn’t.

Darius Miles may indeed still receive his money from the Blazers, but that does not mean his future earnings aren’t being impacted. The guy is 27 years old and clearly still wants to play – if he has to play for the vet minimum this year in order to show potential suitors that he still has the ability to play NBA basketball, he should be able to do so. So there is a very real possibility he is being impacted monetarily down the road.

This is straight up bullshit, and I think the Blazers deserve all the bad juju and press that will be forthcoming. I hope someone like Mark Cuban picks Miles up and plays him in a few games just to dare the Blazers to take him to court.

Are we gonna live together? Together are we gonna live?

by otis29 on Jan 9, 2009 8:50 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I disagree with you

Mostly because I think there was harm on the Grizzlies side of this. They were doing this to fuck up the Blazers chances at Free Agents this summer. I don’t think the Celtics did anything negatively towards Portland, as they played Miles often enough to see what they thought. I’m kinda hoping another team doesn’t pick Miles up, and this thing fades away.

Miles got that injury assessment for a reason. He really should go play over in Europe if he is hungry.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on

by pookeyguru on Jan 9, 2009 8:58 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

There's the rub

You can’t dictate to someone where or when he can ply his trade, without some kind of contractual stipulations that Miles has agreed to. Now, the Blazers have in essence used the threat of litigation to prevent any team, regardless of their motivations, from giving Darius Miles a chance to work.

The Blazers played the game and rolled the dice on Miles, and now they are in danger of getting burned. I think PhutureKings rebuttal to jscot above really hits it on the head. What they are boils down to a David versus Goliath issue – it’s a big corporation crapping on the little guy in order to put some more bucks in their own pocket.

Are we gonna live together? Together are we gonna live?

by otis29 on Jan 9, 2009 9:11 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Did you read my response to him

before this comment?

Don’t forget that this little guy is getting $9 million a year this year and next from the big corporation. If he can double dip and make the vets minimum next year, and actually make the case that he deserves another contract, I don’t think he deserves too many tears shed on his behalf.

And as I’ve said, if anyone thinks Darius can help them through the rest of the season, they don’t have to fear litigation. If they want him for 2-3 games, they better have their lawyers ready. If Darius is so good and healthy and ready to go, someone will sign him for the rest of the season, and this is all a historical blip.

If you can't convince them, confuse them -- Harry Truman, U.S. President

by jscot on Jan 9, 2009 10:42 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Nobody is shedding tears for Miles

I’m just not shedding tears for the Blazers if they get screwed on this deal. They’ve benefited from the rules, but seem to be pissed now that the rules are going to possibly harm their bottom line.

Are we gonna live together? Together are we gonna live?

by otis29 on Jan 9, 2009 10:45 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I don't think Paul Allen really cares

Dude has, what, 15 billion lying around after losing tons in stock losses?

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on

by pookeyguru on Jan 9, 2009 10:47 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

He cares

He’ll spend to win. He won’t spend because someone who is supposed to be in a joint venture with him decides to screw him.

If you can't convince them, confuse them -- Harry Truman, U.S. President

by jscot on Jan 9, 2009 10:48 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I meant about the money

Or, have you not been to the Experience museum yet?

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on

by pookeyguru on Jan 9, 2009 11:10 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

They got rid of the FunkBlast ride

Now there’s a lame Sci-Fi exhibit that doesn’t have any X-Files stuff in it and that show was shot in Vancouver for multiple seasons!

…I’m sorry, what were we talking about?

by #12Pick...who? on Jan 9, 2009 12:06 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Bongs and the glass texture they give us in our lives?

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on

by pookeyguru on Jan 9, 2009 12:55 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I think he cares about the money, too

Not that he needs it or won’t spend it for toys. But he actually isn’t just writing out a lot of multimillion dollar checks to other NBA franchises just for the fun of it.

And that is what this is about.

I know you can put admiration in bags, because admiration is real, and tominhawaii says that everything that is real is measurable.

by jscot on Jan 10, 2009 6:20 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I mean re: cap room

Are we gonna live together? Together are we gonna live?

by otis29 on Jan 9, 2009 10:49 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Part right, part wrong

You are right that this may impact Darius marginally.

It might mean he has to play for the vet minimum next year as well, which means if he then shows he’s a $3-4 million player (no way he’s more than that), it has cost him a couple million. I agree.

Except for this. If a team signs and plays Darius for the rest of the year, Portland has no case here. None. Zero. And that is the only thing that would really help Darius make more future earnings. So if a team does this, there’s no discussion here.

A ten day contract to play two games wouldn’t have helped Darius rebuild his career AT ALL. Not one bit.

But you are correct that there is a chance Darius is hurt by this, because a ten day contract could have gone to a contract for the rest of the year. Not a big chance, but a chance.

So you think instead that Paul Allen, on hearing that people were saying in the media they were going to screw Portland in violation of their fiduciary responsibilities, should just quietly pay the millions in luxury tax and not say anything? Would you do that? I personally don’t have the millions to throw around, but if I did, I still wouldn’t throw them away in that manner.

Paul Allen may be rich, but he isn’t stupid.

If you can't convince them, confuse them -- Harry Truman, U.S. President

by jscot on Jan 9, 2009 10:33 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Absolutely not

You are painting him as a bit more of a saint here than necessary, however. You believe he’s protecting his interests from those who would harm his franchise in violation of their fiduciary responsibilities – I think he’s doing that AND at the same time scaring off any potential suitors for Miles who have more honorable intentions. That benefits the Blazers as well.

Can you deny that this memo would have an effect on any franchise who was thinking about bringing Miles in for a look?

Are we gonna live together? Together are we gonna live?

by otis29 on Jan 9, 2009 10:43 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

It shouldn't

And, again, I think what Memphis did was done to screw the Blazers out of some cap space. I don’t think that was Boston’s intent, as they were looking to shore up their bench.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on

by pookeyguru on Jan 9, 2009 10:45 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Nope, won't deny it

I already said that’s the bad part of this.

If Darius is that good to go, though, they can just sign him for the rest of the season, and there’s no discussion.

It makes it much less likely that he’ll get a ten day contract, though.

If you can't convince them, confuse them -- Harry Truman, U.S. President

by jscot on Jan 9, 2009 10:47 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Dude,

you’re very bright, but it feels like you’re trying hard to see this only from one side. I suppose that’s normal, though, most of us fans like to look at a situation from our own team’s side.

No team knows that he is definitely good to go certainly enough that they feel absolutely safe signing him for the rest of the season.

Some teams might be interested enough in his potential to sign him for a 10-day contract or two and see what they think of him… which in the normal course of a normal 10-day contract would involve playing limited time in a few games before deciding if he should be kept for the rest of the season.

Portland’s memo has discouraged teams from doing that, which decreases Miles’ chances of playing for the rest of the season, which decreases Miles’ chances of playing in the future, which hurts Miles’ career.

Am I missing something?

by twasserm on Jan 9, 2009 10:57 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I think jscot see's several sides to this argument

What I think people are missing is that, A), like I’ve said on Bedge, what the Celtics did was legitmate. What the Grizzlies did was probably not. That’s where I think jsscot’s reaction is really coming from.

Am i right mr Cannibal London guy?

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on

by pookeyguru on Jan 9, 2009 11:09 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

You are focusing on the past

I think the rest of us are looking at the future.

Are we gonna live together? Together are we gonna live?

by otis29 on Jan 9, 2009 11:12 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm focusing on the past

Because the past is the key to the future.

Those who forget their history are doomed to repeat it.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on

by pookeyguru on Jan 9, 2009 11:16 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

It's not even the Grizzlies, so much

Well, it is the Grizzlies, in part, probably.

But it is mainly the NBA exec quoted on Yahoo the day before yesterday that a team was going to play Darius for two games to screw Portland. Now, maybe the Griz were colluding with someone (informally, of course) and maybe not.

But teams shouldn’t be doing that, and when someone says they are going to, the guy who is about to get screwed should be able to say, “Hey, wait a minute, you’d better not, or we’ll sue your rear end.”

I’m not talking about screwing someone in the sense of gaining a competitive advantage, I’m talking about financially messing someone over for $9 million of luxury tax.

If you can't convince them, confuse them -- Harry Truman, U.S. President

by jscot on Jan 9, 2009 11:15 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Had to be a combination of that article by Wojnarowski and the Grizzlies doing what they did

Either way, the point is still the same.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on

by pookeyguru on Jan 9, 2009 11:17 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I said this
But you are correct that there is a chance Darius is hurt by this, because a ten day contract could have gone to a contract for the rest of the year. Not a big chance, but a chance.

I’m not sure why you think I’m missing the point you made, since I acknowledged it already.

For Darius to have been significantly hurt, all of the following must be true:
1. A team would have given him a ten day contract.
2. That team is scared off of giving him that contract.
3. That ten day contract would have led to a contract for the rest of the year.
4. No one else gives him a contract for the rest of the year.
5. That contract for the rest of the year would have helped to resurrect his career, and he would have had a more successful career with it than without it.

If that chain breaks on any point, Darius has not been significantly hurt. It is possible he has been significantly hurt. It is not likely. Too many links in that chain that are iffy at best.

If you can't convince them, confuse them -- Harry Truman, U.S. President

by jscot on Jan 9, 2009 11:12 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Sorry, you're right

You totally acknowledged that and I didn’t catch it.

If we differ at all on this, it may just be on how likely we believe Miles would have been to get a 10-day contract before Portland sent this email.

by twasserm on Jan 9, 2009 11:35 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

LOL

We were both wrong on that, apparently, since the Grizzlies just signed him to one.

I know you can put admiration in bags, because admiration is real, and tominhawaii says that everything that is real is measurable.

by jscot on Jan 10, 2009 6:22 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Sorry, but that's wrong

If any of those are true Miles has been hurt, “significantly” is of course the key term.

You may not deem it significant Miles is denied a chance at a 10-day contract because he (should be) so wealthy already, and it is extremely likely a 10-day contract won’t lead to a difference in his NBA career.

However, not getting a 10-day contract because of this letter does cost Darius money (immaterial to you given his big contract, but maybe not to an outsider) and also costs him the opportunity to show he is worth a longer deal. Now, the chance that happens may be infitesimal, but it is not 0., and thus if some team passes on Darius because of this letter he has been injured by it, at least by my personal standard of “significance”.

The more you guys work the trade machine, the happier I am GP is our GM.

by ForThree on Jan 9, 2009 12:00 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Hmm

What’s actually wrong in what I said? As you rightly point out, “significantly” is the key term.

For the injury to Darius to be significant, all of those things have to be true. He can claim to the court that all of them might have been true, and the court can assess the likelihood of each of them and assess damages accordingly.

I would suggest that the loss of income from a single 10 day contract is not significant to Darius, Paul Allen, or any of the other players, and probably not worth it to Darius to take it to court. It’s the other factors that might make it worth it — but then you start to get into probabilities. Even the Griz, who just gave him another 10 day contract, didn’t want to guarantee him for the season, and no one else has wanted to, either. Teams haven’t exactly been lining up to sign the guy.

I pretty much stand by what I said. This might hurt Darius, but the likelihood of that hurt being significant is pretty low. It’s actually lower since the Griz re-signed him — it’s going to be pretty hard for him to claim that Portland’s letter is preventing him from having a chance.

I know you can put admiration in bags, because admiration is real, and tominhawaii says that everything that is real is measurable.

by jscot on Jan 10, 2009 6:29 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Unfortunately

Cuban has already come down in support of Portland, and he couldn’t afford to sign him anyway.
Bad juju? please… if the man wants to play and he wants to showcase his talents there are many other options, overseas, d-league ect…
And please don’t forget this man according to two medical sources is a walking timebomb for a knee injury.
Also I have one question, how is it that the preseason games count, but his 10 game suspension didn’t affect it?

by SamGoody on Jan 10, 2009 1:27 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Henry Abbot's on this as well

http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-38-27/Darius-Miles—Cap-Space—E-mails—Oh-My-.html

Relevant text:

Before we get to talking about threatening e-mails and all that, let’s back up for a minute, and all agree on one thing: Darius Miles is not, and should not be, medically retired.

Portland’s claim, supported by an independent doctor, that they should get salary cap relief for his career-ending injuries was a mistake. And now there’s a 27-year-old who demonstrably would like to play basketball for a living. The Collective Bargaining Agreement’s standard for assessing when a medical retirement was a mistake appears to have been a good one. Even before ten games are up, it’s pretty clear.

In my opinion, that’s all that matters.

Are we gonna live together? Together are we gonna live?

by otis29 on Jan 9, 2009 10:12 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Whoops, screwed up the quote box

The second paragraph should have been in quotes as well.

Are we gonna live together? Together are we gonna live?

by otis29 on Jan 9, 2009 10:13 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

There should be some sort of amendment dealing with this

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on

by pookeyguru on Jan 9, 2009 10:46 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed

And the cleanest way would be for Stern and the league to step in and fix the mess to all party’s satisfaction.

Are we gonna live together? Together are we gonna live?

by otis29 on Jan 9, 2009 10:48 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Which is?

According to Larry Coon, the intent of the ten games rule was to keep teams from medically retiring their players and then bringing them back on a cheap contract, thus circumventing the cap.

In other words, the ten game thing wasn’t intended to deal with a case where one team follows doctors’ advice and another team doesn’t. So the obvious solution is to clarify that this was indeed the intent, and state that the ten game rule only applies if at least one of those ten games was played for the original team.

That would clean up the whole mess, and Darius could play wherever/whenever he can win a spot without anyone worrying about the cap mess. And this whole thing goes away.

If you can't convince them, confuse them -- Harry Truman, U.S. President

by jscot on Jan 9, 2009 11:04 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Via Mr Coon (I have his FAQ on speed dial)
If the player “”http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#Q53" >proves the doctors wrong" and resumes his career, then his salary is returned to his team’s team salary when he plays in his 10th game in any one season (including pre-season, regular season and playoff games). This allows a player to attempt to resume his career without affecting his team unless his comeback is ultimately successful. A team loses this salary cap relief even if the player later signs and plays 10 games with a different team.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on

by pookeyguru on Jan 9, 2009 11:21 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Egads
If the player “proves the doctors wrong” and resumes his career, then his salary is returned to his team’s team salary when he plays in his 10th game in any one season (including pre-season, regular season and playoff games). This allows a player to attempt to resume his career without affecting his team unless his comeback is ultimately successful. A team loses this salary cap relief even if the player later signs and plays 10 games with a different team.

Link.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on

by pookeyguru on Jan 9, 2009 11:22 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Interesting

He was quoted earlier as saying that the original intent was to keep teams from by-passing the cap by retiring their players and then bringing them back on a lower salary.

I know you can put admiration in bags, because admiration is real, and tominhawaii says that everything that is real is measurable.

by jscot on Jan 10, 2009 6:35 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

No, no, no, no,no

If it were changed like you suggest, then NY could “medically retire” Starbury to get cap relief, not that they would this being his last year, but they could.

Being allowed cap relief by dumping your bad contracts on the insurance carrier is not the intention of this rule.

Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott

by Kfan in Korea on Jan 9, 2009 2:34 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Requires

1. Player out for two years due to injury.
2. Player approval. (That’s right, Darius signed on to medical retirement).
3. Independent doctor, appointed by the players’ assocation and the league, certifying that the player has a career-ending injury (undefined).

NY couldn’t do that.

I know you can put admiration in bags, because admiration is real, and tominhawaii says that everything that is real is measurable.

by jscot on Jan 10, 2009 6:33 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

So

Miles hasn’t been out two years. Portland still pays. You can’t have it both ways.

Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott

by Kfan in Korea on Jan 10, 2009 1:42 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm wrong

he did miss 2 seasons.

But I still don’t think you need an out on a rule that works fine as is.

Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott

by Kfan in Korea on Jan 10, 2009 3:48 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Thanks for the discussion guys

I’ve got to actually, you know, do some work. I’ll check back later to see if I’ve missed anything.

If you can't convince them, confuse them -- Harry Truman, U.S. President

by jscot on Jan 9, 2009 11:16 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

I don't speak for anyone else

But it’s been interesting. And, quality discourse never hurts nobody.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on

by pookeyguru on Jan 9, 2009 11:23 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I disagree Pookey

Quality discourse hurts the ignorant. So I would appreciate it if we could all stop immediately before I’m revealed for what I truly am.

Never forget: I am a complete idiot

by Exhibit G on Jan 9, 2009 11:54 AM PST up reply actions   1 recs

I flag your comment

As I find it offensive, and against all human nature!

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on

by pookeyguru on Jan 9, 2009 12:03 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

K9

Can we medically retire Kenny Thomas so we don’t have to pay him either? I’d say his injuries are career ending =)

by Doubl3Dos3 on Jan 9, 2009 12:02 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Certainly career ending for Billy Knight

I wonder if he can sue K9 for hindering his right to work

by furious.d on Jan 10, 2009 11:12 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Another Idea...

What if we signed Miles and traded him to Portland for Bayless since we were gonna draft him before the Blazers “screwed” us?

(I don’t really mean that, just trying to stir things up!)

by #12Pick...who? on Jan 9, 2009 12:13 PM PST reply actions   2 recs

Hah!

rec’d

"You keep on using that word
I do not think it mean what you think it means"

by lietothegirls on Jan 9, 2009 1:27 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Didn't fully read all the above comments

so this may have been covered.

I’m pretty sure the Blazers are not paying Miles right now, their insurance is. So, if he becomes “unmedically retired” I thin Paul Allen would be on the hook for all of his salary this year, next year, and probably have to reimburse the insurance company for any money they payed out, as well as any luxury tax.

This is a dick move by the Blazers and Miles should sue and in my opinion should be compensated. I hope some team takes a chance on him if they think he can help them.

Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott

by Kfan in Korea on Jan 9, 2009 2:41 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

This is Darius Miles we're talking about

I don’t think it’s all that much of a dick move. And, not to be uppity about it, but this guy ain’t exactly Curt Flood either. Miles can cry me a river some other time.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on

by pookeyguru on Jan 9, 2009 2:55 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm sorry but

threatening to sue another team if they do something that is within their rights and in the process hurting the future career of a person that is trying to earn their paycheck, that they will receive whether they work another day or not, is a dick move.

Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott

by Kfan in Korea on Jan 9, 2009 6:58 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

Miles is already getting paid

That’s part of my point.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on

by pookeyguru on Jan 9, 2009 10:56 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I think that was Kfan's point too
hurting the future career of a person that is trying to earn their paycheck, that they will receive whether they work another day or not, is a dick move

He’s getting paid regardless, now he’s trying to claw his way back into the league. Miles’s past indiscretions make him a pretty unsympathetic character. But, in this case, it does seem totally dick to hurt his chances of signing with someone else so that your team can avoid fulfilling a salary cap obligation.

by furious.d on Jan 10, 2009 11:26 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Yes

Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott

by Kfan in Korea on Jan 10, 2009 1:34 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I guarantee one thing

If this was the Kings, none of you would be thrilled. This is an ugly situation that isn’t ending today, no matter where your opinion lay.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on

by pookeyguru on Jan 10, 2009 8:04 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

If 'Reef decides to try and play again

in a year or two, I’d wish him the best, and if the Maloof’s threatened other teams to try and keep Reef from getting a shot, I will call it like it would be. A dick move. It would suck for our cap space, but how can you not want a guy to have a shot at pursuing his dream?

Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott

by Kfan in Korea on Jan 10, 2009 11:57 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

He expires after 2010 anyway

And his contract isn’t as big as Miles. And, not only that, I don’t think his body is up for it. Also, he’s smarter than MIles is.

You clearly don’t care for the Blazers. I disagree with you. And I’m done discussing this until something new comes up.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on

by pookeyguru on Jan 11, 2009 10:48 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I know it itsn't the same situation

but I was giving an example of my reaction if the money were the same.

My reaction has nothing to do with the Blazers, or Miles. It’s about what I think is right. Trying to fuck somebody out of their right to pursue their dream is wrong IMO.

Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott

by Kfan in Korea on Jan 11, 2009 2:48 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

That is correct sir.

"You keep on using that word
I do not think it mean what you think it means"

by lietothegirls on Jan 13, 2009 10:05 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Not true

There are a lot of us here (you included) that praise the organization for the smart moves they make, but don’t hesitate to rip them when necessary. What is happening at BE is a pretty clear case of groupthink.

Are we gonna live together? Together are we gonna live?

by otis29 on Jan 11, 2009 8:14 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

What real smart moves did Portland make?

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on

by pookeyguru on Jan 11, 2009 10:48 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

And that is my last point made

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on

by pookeyguru on Jan 11, 2009 10:51 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm talking about the Kings

I thought you implied that we would have similar pro-franchise attitudes here if it were the Kings rather than the Blazers at the center of this. Which which I would disagree – we frickin’ argue about anything and everything, and there are certainly no sacred cows here (although Petrie is about as close as you get).

Are we gonna live together? Together are we gonna live?

by otis29 on Jan 11, 2009 6:42 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

It's Ridiculous to Say...

You can’t say that the memo applies only to teams that would sign Miles in bad-faith. If every team knows that a law suit will likely be following the signing of Miles, no team will want the headache.

There might’ve been a team willing to try him out, but knowing that the trial-period (of Miles) will come with a legal trial, is contractual interference, IMO (or at least the argument is there).

Also, it is not up to the team signing Miles to prove that it was legit, it’s up tp the Blazers to prove that it wasn’t legit (by a preponderence). They have to know that proving intent is very difficult, so the threat of legal action was simply used as a deterent.

BY the way, I don’t think it’s fair to say that if a team signs Miles and only plays him in a few games that it could be used as proof of bad-faith. Look at Kenny Thomas — dude never plays, but still gets paid.

by PhutureKings on Jan 9, 2009 3:57 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Reading Blazers Edge

It’s clear that most of them don’t like Darius Miles, and probably for some very good reasons. We’d probably have the same reaction if someone like Kenny Thomas was involved in a similar situation.

But change Darius Miles to a Grant Hill, and you might have some different opinions.

You can’t say that the memo applies only to teams that would sign Miles in bad-faith. If every team knows that a law suit will likely be following the signing of Miles, no team will want the headache.

And this is my real issue with all of this – Blazer fans are clearly willing to believe that a large business entity put this out with the strict intention of only scaring off teams that would bring Miles on to screw over Portland. In no way will they believe Portland had ulterior motives, which is clearly to scare off every team interested in Miles, for whatever reason.

“Darius has made plenty of money”, “Darius didn’t play hard while he was here”, “Darius was a jackass malingerer”. There are lots of red herrings getting thrown out over there, but put an anonymous face on the player and this boils down to a big company attempting to screw an individual because it benefits the company. And that is fucked up, no matter how you look at it.

Are we gonna live together? Together are we gonna live?

by otis29 on Jan 9, 2009 4:13 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

I don't agree

I’m pretty sure that most of the people in Portland know of all the motives that the Blazer Franchise might have. You just need to realize they don’t care, its their good up and coming team that might be hurt by this. They are one of the most loyal type of fan around a sports fan. When Portland looks at the Darius Miles situation they see a man who is disregarding sound medical advice and playing. It is an ignorant man who thinks that Miles isn’t aware of what his actions do to his former team. It is also an ignorant man who thinks that Miles can still play and contribute to a team in the NBA. There are younger and quicker and poorer players that can do what he did.

by SamGoody on Jan 10, 2009 1:49 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Wait a second

I don’t think Miles is coming back so that he can get a ten-day contract, play ten games and screw Portland, blow out his knee irreparably, and go home.

I haven’t and won’t read any of Darius Miles’s medical reports, but I think that I’m safe in assuming that he has consulted physicians since his injury was deemed career-ending and decided that he will be able to play again without endangering his future health. I’m not accusing the original docs of any wrongdoing, I just know that a lot can change in a major injury rehab in two years. I’m sure he has up-to-date medical advice as his reason for “disregarding sound medical advice and playing.” As for your suggestion that it is “ignorant” to think that Miles can still contribute to an NBA team, that’s just silly. He’s already done so this season.

by furious.d on Jan 10, 2009 11:51 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

He was put on medical retirement last April furious

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on

by pookeyguru on Jan 10, 2009 8:06 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

A couple comments
You can’t say that the memo applies only to teams that would sign Miles in bad-faith.

Legally, you can. You probably couldn’t say it if there hadn’t been media reports quoting an NBA team exec as saying that people were acting in bad faith. That changes things.

There might’ve been a team willing to try him out, but knowing that the trial-period (of Miles) will come with a legal trial, is contractual interference, IMO (or at least the argument is there).

You are correct that the argument is there. But it would be hard to prove because of the way the email was worded. It was very specific. Paul Allen can afford good lawyers.

Also, it is not up to the team signing Miles to prove that it was legit, it’s up tp the Blazers to prove that it wasn’t legit (by a preponderence). They have to know that proving intent is very difficult, so the threat of legal action was simply used as a deterent.

Correct on where the burden of proof lies. Correct that proving intent is very difficult. Not sure that proves it was only a deterrent, though. We know about the media reports of people wanting to screw the Blazers. We don’t know what other evidence they might have. You may be right that it was only a deterrent, but there may be a smoking gun or two.

BY the way, I don’t think it’s fair to say that if a team signs Miles and only plays him in a few games that it could be used as proof of bad-faith.

Yeah, if that’s all you bring, you’ll get laughed out of court. If you can come up with several other pieces of evidence, then that becomes part of the picture, but standing alone, it proves nothing.

I know you can put admiration in bags, because admiration is real, and tominhawaii says that everything that is real is measurable.

by jscot on Jan 10, 2009 7:09 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

How come no one is talking about the Blazers giving him that contract in the first place

They just got lucky he got injured and were able to get out of it. How many times do teams sign players to horrible contracts an are not able to take it back? Portland got lucky (still an unfortunate situation for Miles though) and now their luck is coming back to bite them. These are the rules, you knew them before the contract was signed and before Miles was deemed medically retired. What does it matter if Miles was a bad person or a model citizen, he has the right to work and the Blazers organization is tring to interfere. How would you feel if you made it back from an injury and were not allow to come back to work?

Yes, Portland only warned those who would sign him only to mess with their cap but how do you distinguish that? I don’t buy it for one second they were just ‘warning’ some teams. If you don’t think this will affect every team’s decision to sign him you are not living in this world.

by eduardo_m7 on Jan 9, 2009 6:02 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

The dude was having a pretty good year

when he got injured.

They got lucky he got injured? I didn’t even read the rest of your comment.

I know you can put admiration in bags, because admiration is real, and tominhawaii says that everything that is real is measurable.

by jscot on Jan 10, 2009 7:10 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Well you should've

Because after I did say it was still an unfortunate situation for Darius Miles, the player and human being. No one wants to see a player get injured and have to retire because of it. The Blazers benefited from this unfortunate situation and now they want to keep bnefiting although this player is trying to come back. The main point is: the Blazers organization is only thinking about their money and are not taking into consideration what this player (and it doesn’t matter who he is really) is trying to accomplish and fight for. The email to me was pretty low class and selfish. Ohh yeah… I’m sure they were only warning those teams with bad intentions.. BS. What about their intentions??

Luckily none of this matter because Miles is back in the Grizz and will porbably play 2 more games.

by eduardo_m7 on Jan 10, 2009 1:07 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Question

NOTE: Apologies in advance, I pieced this together while multi-tasking, I hope it’s not too disjointed.

Aren’t all of the Luxury Tax dollars split between the teams under the cap? If I’m a team under the cap, and could sign a player to a 10-day contract to fill a temporary need, why not sign the guy who will put some money into my pocket at the same time (two birds, and all that)?

The argument by the Blazers that the NBA is a joint venture and that other owners shouldn’t try to “screw” them is ludicrous. If anything, the Blazers having to put Miles’ salary back on the books helps more members (everyone under the cap) than not (PDX).

And this is completely within the rules that everyone has agreed to follow. If this situation leads the league to decide that 10 games isn’t enough of a litmus test, then they change the rules.

Teams circumvent the rules all the time and nobody blinks an eye (trading a player and waiting the appropriate time to “re-sign” them after they’re waived – a rule to stop teams from doing what they still do anyway) . . . and yet a team giving a someone a 10-day contract is supposed to strike outrage? What a joke.

10 games isn’t very much. It’s only a hair over 1/10th of a season (12%). If there was any chance that Miles would attempt a comeback, then Portland should have either ( a ) not requested the Medical Retirement, ( b ) put themselves in a position so that if his salary came back on the books they could take the hit, or ( c ) just taken the hit because they gambled and lost.

I’m with Section in that I don’t want the Kings to sign him (for various reasons, but Section’s “bad juju” is one of them). That said, I really hope someone takes a chance on him after this situation. I didn’t really care before, but this just seems shady to me, and if you take the “personal” opinions out of it (like Otis suggested – So I shouldn’t cry for Darius Miles because he’s a millionaire, and has plenty of money . . . but I should cry for the Blazers/Paul Allen because WHY?), it seems even shadier.

by smgmatt on Jan 9, 2009 6:46 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Luxury tax dollars

are split amongst the teams under the luxury tax line, and teams in the front office.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on

by pookeyguru on Jan 9, 2009 10:58 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Or the NBA front office I mean

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on

by pookeyguru on Jan 9, 2009 10:58 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Oh, sure
Aren’t all of the Luxury Tax dollars split between the teams under the cap? If I’m a team under the cap, and could sign a player to a 10-day contract to fill a temporary need, why not sign the guy who will put some money into my pocket at the same time (two birds, and all that)?

Just to be clear, if you are filling a temporary need, that’s legit. If you only do it to defraud those in a joint venture with you, it’s not.

The argument by the Blazers that the NBA is a joint venture and that other owners shouldn’t try to "screw" them is ludicrous. If anything, the Blazers having to put Miles’ salary back on the books helps more members (everyone under the cap) than not (PDX).

I would suggest that a lawyer for an NBA franchise might look at this a little differently. If the NBA is not a joint venture, then why exactly does the league (rather than individual teams) set the schedule? Why does the league (instead of the Kings) determine the referees at Kings’ games? Why does the league have the right to fine teams and players, suspend players, etc? Why do teams split joint TV revenues?

It’s a joint venture.

I know you can put admiration in bags, because admiration is real, and tominhawaii says that everything that is real is measurable.

by jscot on Jan 10, 2009 7:16 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

The Miles' situation is unique

There is going to be some clarification of this going on so this doesn’t happen again. (As someone who pays attention to the salary cap, I can’t ever remember something like this going on. Fans are really missing the point on every side.)

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on

by pookeyguru on Jan 10, 2009 8:08 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

And it appears that Miles has signed another 10 day with Memphis

Pritch-slap? Portland got Wall-assed.

SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Jan 9, 2009 11:00 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

this is the last time

Who in their right mind plays with a timebomb in their knee? I think that was the consensus in portland. Miles showed them who.. its that simple. Now portland is being told to pay because of another player’s stupidity. Thats the only thing that I find hard to stomach with the situation. I mean think Eric Snow, it isn’t really that he can’t play, its that injury has increased to the point that he is at an unacceptable risk to play, thus his medical retirement.

by SamGoody on Jan 10, 2009 1:57 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Who in their right mind?

Shit, probably a ton of guys in every major sport in this country. There are guys that play well past their prime, there are guys that play with multiple concussions, there are guys who play major impact sports that will leave them unable to walk normally by the time they are 50 years old.

What do you care WHY any of them do it? Maybe it’s the money, maybe it’s love of the sport, MAYBE it’s the only thing they know how to do well and they want to do it as long as possible.

The Trailblazers, and seemingly their fans, want to dictate how another person chooses to make his living. And all to clear a little cap space or avoid the luxury tax. That’s the sad part of this whole thing.

Are we gonna live together? Together are we gonna live?

by otis29 on Jan 10, 2009 6:52 AM PST up reply actions   1 recs

That's not what I want

and you know it.

Larry Miller said yesterday, and I agree, that there is no objection to Darius playing ball and helping a team. The only objection is to teams doing this for the purpose of screwing Portland.

If Darius gets a contract and plays ball for the rest of the season, that’s entirely cool. Dumb on his part in my opinion, but it’s his decision, after all. I hope the team that signs him has a good medical release in case his knee blows out, because he should bear the risk of that, not someone else — it’s his decision to take the risk.

But if someone does it only to screw Portland, I hope Paul Allen’s lawyers have the evidence and nail their behind to the wall. And that is exactly what that email was about.

I know you can put admiration in bags, because admiration is real, and tominhawaii says that everything that is real is measurable.

by jscot on Jan 10, 2009 7:21 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

You continue to mention what Larry Miller said

Ad nauseum. No offense, but what do you expect him to say? “Yeah, we are really hoping this prevents any team from signing Darius for two more games”. Please.

I agree with your last paragraph, BUT if I were an owner of an NBA team and I received that e-mail, I’d be pissed too. Basically, the Blazers puffed out their chests and dared any team in the league to sign Miles with the specter of litigation looming. As someone noted previously (not sure if it was here or at BE), but by e-mailing every team in the league, there’s an assumption that they don’t understand the rules in place. That in itself is pretty damn objectionable – if you suspect a team is doing something outside the rules to harm your franchise, get more information and deal with those teams directly.

Because the effect of what they’ve done, intentionally or unintentionally, is to impede the chances of Darius Miles to find work.

Are we gonna live together? Together are we gonna live?

by otis29 on Jan 10, 2009 7:35 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

rec'd

otis sums it up really well

The more you guys work the trade machine, the happier I am GP is our GM.

by ForThree on Jan 10, 2009 7:05 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Hey jscot

Thanks for your contribution to the thread. I think you’re defending an untenable position on this one, but seem like a very reasonable guy and have a good job defending your guys, in the face of not a lot of people here being on your side, including me.

Just wanted to say thanks for civil discourse, and I’m ok with you guys taking Miles’ salary off the books this summer if you eliminate the L****s from the playoffs. I’m just saying….

The more you guys work the trade machine, the happier I am GP is our GM.

by ForThree on Jan 10, 2009 7:39 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Agreed

I’ll second that jscot has “shown what he’s made of” so to speak, and it’s impressive.

Contributors from other fanbases like jscot are always welcome here, in my opinion.

by smgmatt on Jan 11, 2009 4:47 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Just as long as one of those "contributors" isn't Cordoba

I agree with that statement smg.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on

by pookeyguru on Jan 13, 2009 6:04 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Wow, just saw this

If anyone else is still looking, just to say thanks for the nice words.

There are things about the email that I don’t like, particularly the effect on Darius, as I’ve stated here. But I think much of the criticism is really missing the point of the email, and overlooking important facts.

I think people can disagree on things and still get along, right?

I know you can put admiration in bags, because admiration is real, and tominhawaii says that everything that is real is measurable.

by jscot on Jan 13, 2009 5:36 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

As Otis said
if you suspect a team is doing something outside the rules to harm your franchise, get more information and deal with those teams directly.

I agree that this is the shady part of this whole league-wide letter issue. It definitely appears a bullying stance to me, since they sent it to every team instead of waiting until he was signed to an unguaranteed contract and notifying the team in question that it would be investigating for signs of bad faith. Then, if a team was signing him with ill intentions and decided it would be in a legally untenable position, they could just waive him at the appropriate time. Ultimately, it’s just posturing for a later legal battle, should it come to that (which I can’t imagine it will). It would seem that this sort of litigation might harm the oft-mentioned “joint venture.”

And while I’m at it, my personal opinion is that a report of an anonymous team executive speculating that (not his team, but) another team might sign Miles in bad faith shouldn’t be sufficient reason to adopt this stance. The fact that Miles might go unsigned this season, might be signed in good faith, or might be signed in bad faith has been obvious since the outset of his comeback.

by furious.d on Jan 10, 2009 12:22 PM PST reply actions   1 recs

Agreed
And while I’m at it, my personal opinion is that a report of an anonymous team executive speculating that (not his team, but) another team might sign Miles in bad faith shouldn’t be sufficient reason to adopt this stance.

If that is all they have, I would agree.

I know you can put admiration in bags, because admiration is real, and tominhawaii says that everything that is real is measurable.

by jscot on Jan 13, 2009 5:38 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I think most people are missing the bigger overall picture here

Darius Miles wasn’t designated for medical retirement by the Blazers. He was given that in concurrence with their own doctors, as well as a doctor appointed by the Players Assocation, the same Players Assocation that is now saying the Blazers are trying to hurt Miles’ future earnings. Mmm, okay.

Secondly, the point of the letter was to bully teams, and it clearly didn’t work. But, the letter only made it harder for Portland to clear up the real issue, as jscot is dilligently (and unsuccessfully here) attempting to point out. That issue is, whether any team did this to screw over the Blazers. And, I think the Grizzlies are.

Why did the Grizzlies cut Miles? They didn’t need to cut Miles. (I think the Blazers anticipated the cut & re-sign of MIles by Memphis. Which is why the memo came out when it did.) And, I think this is an attempt by Michael Heisley to circumvent the rules. This is a low blow by Memphis, done in an unusual way. I would find it a bit easier to believe that Memphis did anything honorable here had they not cut Miles. Which they did. I hope the end result is that Heisley ends up losing ownership for such a crass, and ultimately, back end type of blow.

Now, I will admit I agree with Portland fans they are being screwed. I will agree that Paul Allen made the mistake by signing MIles to the original contract (something that Blazers’ probably haven’t totally lost sight of). I agree that Darius Miles has a right to play basketball, even though it probably isn’t an intelligent move on his part.

Now, the thing I don’t agree on. Darius Miles continuing to be paid his enormous contract while essentially screwing the team he was playing for, by playing for another. He should be able to do one, but not the other. That’s the unfortunate angle in all this. The other part of this is the relevance of Eddy Curry. There is no relevance at all in this. Yes, Eddy Curry had a heart condition, but the difference was, it wasn’t deemed significant enough for him not to play. The problem came with the Bulls insisting on tests, and the Knicks signing him without them. That’s not the same situation as the one facing the league with Miles.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on

by pookeyguru on Jan 10, 2009 8:23 PM PST reply actions   1 recs

Rec'd

I think you lay things out pretty well, and I agree with pretty much everything you stated . . . save that I’m not as sure as you are about the Grizzlies “wrongdoing”. To be fair, I’m also not counting it out.

Miles had to sit out a suspension before he could even see the court, and it’s very reasonable to think that they’d want to see him a little more on the court before guaranteeing his contract for the rest of the season. Would your stance change if the Grizzlies gave Miles back-to-back 10-day contracts, followed up by them signing him for the rest of the season?

Even if Memphis is interested in Miles, it doesn’t mean that they should have to sign him for the entire year just to get a look at him.

by smgmatt on Jan 11, 2009 4:53 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I realize that he agreed to the retirement

It was good of him to do so. It gave the Blazers cap relief, in the event that he couldn’t make it back. Now he is making it back and they don’t qualify for the relief anymore.

About your issue with Miles playing and hurting the Blazers, I think they had to waive the rights to him before he could try out for other teams didn’t they? So, he could be trying to make his comeback for them right now, but they chose to let him go. So, his situation now is very similar to Steve Francis. The Blazers “cut him”, are still paying him, but he’s playing for another team.

Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott

by Kfan in Korea on Jan 11, 2009 12:15 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Medical retirement is how he was waived

After that, he can make a comeback independent of the team.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on

by pookeyguru on Jan 11, 2009 10:46 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

So it's not like Steve Francis

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on

by pookeyguru on Jan 11, 2009 10:47 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Reference?

I couldn’t find any info on this and it would seem logical to me that he’d have to comeback with Portland first. If they didn’t want to give him a chance, they’d say so, and then he’d be free to look elsewhere.

Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott

by Kfan in Korea on Jan 11, 2009 3:00 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Not sure about a reference...

…but I believe pookey is correct.

I think that by definition of the Medical Retirement, the player is waived (again, no reference to verify). It was mentioned earlier, by jscot, that the 10-game rule may have been in part to prevent teams from bringing back players at a lower salary after medically retiring them . . . so it’s quite possible that he couldn’t have come back to PDX even if he wanted to.

Take this all with a grain of salt, as I’m purely speculating without a reference to back any of it up.

by smgmatt on Jan 11, 2009 4:57 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Pookey has to be right

how could a player be obligated to go back to his original team, when the team could just stash the player on the bench and never let them in 10 games?

As far as I’m concerned, the whole thing is procedural and no one necessarily is being screwed. Portland did what the could to avoid the salary cap for Miles within the rules, no problem. Unfortunately for them, those procedures have criteria, Miles not playing 10 games, that need to be fulfilled for them to get the cap relief. Miles wants to play now; he can have that desire without the reason for it being to screw Portland. If he comes back and plays 10 games, Portland doesn’t get the cap relief, those are the breaks, everyone has aspects of the salary cap they don’t like I’m sure.

The only ridiculous part of this whole affair was the email from Portland’s brass. Whomever made that decision made a very poor choice in sending the email, and at this point Portland is lucky Miles got picked up. That email was all about intimidation, and intimidating potential employers out of hiring potential employees is a big no-no. Portland should be extremely thankful that probably the worst thing that will happen to them at this point is taking the salary cap hit.

The more you guys work the trade machine, the happier I am GP is our GM.

by ForThree on Jan 12, 2009 6:40 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Marc Stein said they were getting fined

And the league was going to leave it at that. But, that was just the persual from the Daily Dime over the weekend.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. It's simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get tangled, you tango on

by pookeyguru on Jan 12, 2009 5:50 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

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