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'Miss You!,' Kevin Martin Calls Out to Dick Bavetta As Suns Smack Kings 143-127

Sacramento Kings' Tyreke Evans (13) eats the breakfast of Phoenix Suns' Jason Richardson (23) during the first quarter in an NBA preseason basketball game Tuesday, Oct. 20, 2009, in Phoenix. Richardson was left hungry for the better part of the evening. (AP Photo/Ross D. Franklin)

More photos » by Ross D. Franklin - AP

Sacramento Kings' Tyreke Evans (13) eats the breakfast of Phoenix Suns' Jason Richardson (23) during the first quarter in an NBA preseason basketball game Tuesday, Oct. 20, 2009, in Phoenix. Richardson was left hungry for the better part of the evening. (AP Photo/Ross D. Franklin)

The normal referees will be back next week. Thank goodness.

Kevin Martin fouled out of Tuesday's game in Phoenix. Martin told The Bee's Jason Jones this was his first foul disqualification since third grade. But he has actually fouled out twice in his NBA career (in March 2007 against the Clippers and March 2008 against Houston). It's just so rare, because Martin so rarely commits fouls. He averaged just over two per game last year, playing more than 38 minutes. So to foul out in 29 minutes is just ... foul.

But hey Tim Greene, Kurt Walker and CJ Washington ... peace!

Otherwise, Hail to the Reke, who held his own against two-time MVP Steve Nash. And don't forget Omri Casspi, who blew the shroud off his NBA career.

I don't know how Tyreke Evans looked out there, but he put up his best shooting night of the preseason, hitting 21 points on 18 shot attempts, a True Shooting percentage of .583. Along with that he scored eight assists on four turnovers, and added a steal and two blocks (including the from-behind version you see at right). All that in 31 minutes.

Meanwhile, Steve Nash, who left in the third nursing an ankle tweak, had 13 points on 10 shots, with four assists and a turnover in 19 minutes of work. Evans certainly didn't stop Nash, but we used to Nash doing much, much worse to the Kings.

The real problems for the Kings were three-point defense and post defense. Amar'e Stoudemire ended up with 21 free throws. Channing Frye hit 4-5 from behind the arc. The Suns as a whole hit 10-21 back there. That's reminiscent of year's past, and it is a bit worrisome.

Coverage Hub | Boxscore

Star-divide

Most NBA starting centers ain't taking Spencer Hawes out to the perimeter the way Frye did -- only Mehmet Okur, really, will consistently shoot from beyond the arc. But the position continues to move that way, and we can expect the Kings to run up against line-ups which will test the team's ability (and desire) to defend the three-point line from the one through five positions. Until Hawes and Thompson can prove they can defend the three-point line, expect coaches to through smaller frontcourts at the Kings. It certainly worked in Phoenix.

Frye was the only Phoenix starter to hit a three -- the other four Suns who started shot 0-6, with four of those bricks coming from Jason Richardson, who had an atrocious shooting night all around. Who else hit Phoenix's threes? Leandro Barbosa hit two off the bench. Jared Dudley went 1-2. Goran "Lil' Beno" Dragic hit 3-4. Bascially, Channing Frye and Goran Dragic beat you from the perimeter. I think you can almost live with that ... until it's replicated by any number of underwhelming players in the league. Like it was last year.

I've mentioned Stoudemire's high FTA figure, but I consider defensive rebounding to be a big part of post defense as well. And the Kings were awful on the defensive glass. Sacramento only rebounding 62 percent of its defensive rebound opportunities. The Warriors were worst in the league last year at 68 percent. So that's bad. Real bad. As much as the Kings earned on the offensive glass (Hawes and Sean May had five each, Thompson had three) they gave it all back on the defensive end. (Casspi in 21 minutes off the bench, led the team with six defensive rebounds. Martin was second with five in 29 minutes. FYI, these are not your typical top rebounders.)

Speaking of Omri ... BOOM!

22 points on 14 shots (.786 True Shooting), seven rebounds, two assists, one steals, just one turnover in 24 minutes. And this gem, from Jones:

"We have to tell him 'Hey Omri, back off a little bit,'" Westphal said after Tuesday night's exhibition game against the Phoenix Suns. "He wanted to guard (Amar'e) Stoudemire. 'I'll stop him, I'll stop him.' Not tonight Omri. Save that for the regular season."

I love this kid. In the admittedly small sample of five preseason games, Omri is averaging 23 points per 36 minutes on .680 True Shooting. He is playing out of his gourd.

That said, it might make sense to keep Desmond Mason as a starter for a little while, so long as Westphal is convinced Andres Nocioni shouldn't start. If you put Mason on the bench, he's irrelevant and completely wasted -- you might as well cut him. The bench actually does need scoring help, as Nocioni is having a rough time getting into gear and as Sean May will likely see limited minutes (though it's increasingly clear he'll be the first big in the game). Casspi could very well be a more disrupting defender than Mason at this point, but Omri is proving he can make a huge impact from the bench. Mason might not be able to do that. So it'd be a net plus to keep the status quo. (Again, I think starting Nocioni is the right move here -- Martin and Evans are doing beautiful work together by the numbers, and adding a stretch shooter could only help, provided Chapu gives his all on defense, which might actually be a question mark, sad as that is.)

Either way, if you're the type (like me) who has been praying for an impact small forward in the pipeline and you aren't stoked about Omri, take some Pixi Stix and get buggin' out. This dude could make it.

Check out Bright Side of the Sun's game coverage.

***

On a personal note, I'm going to be away from the site for a week or so. section214 and Exhibit G will take you up to the start of the season. Enjoy Opening Night, everyone.

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What?

No Ziller for a week or so? This is a first. I feel so deserted. Must….fight…off…..memories….of….when…..father…..left…..

Enjoy your vacation.

Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott

by Kfan in Korea on Oct 21, 2009 6:26 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

"DADDY!"

Rocks are free, and slingshots easily stolen.

by andy sims on Oct 21, 2009 6:30 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Damn you Sims! May you be shagged by a rare parrot!

This is a repost, because I’m not sure you saw it the first time and I just love this clip.

Always there to give me shit.

Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott

by Kfan in Korea on Oct 21, 2009 6:36 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

That is just fantastically funny.

Victory is tasty.

by iashwash on Oct 21, 2009 7:29 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm about to cry

I was laughing so hard.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

Maybe the they should run public service announcements- starring Francisco Garcia and Sean May (as the expected mother), warning of the dangers of big blue balls. -- JJham15 10/13/09

by pookeyguru on Oct 21, 2009 10:54 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Gotta love Bom-ri's attitude.

Thanks for dis.

October 28th couldn't come soon enough.

by JETisKing on Oct 21, 2009 6:47 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Enjoy the vacation, Ziller.

FIRE BRUCE BOCHY NOW!!!!!!
AND TAKE BRIAN SABEAN WITH HIM!!!!!

by 49er16 on Oct 21, 2009 6:48 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

The Suns' starting bigs

Combined for 56 points. While I’m sure that some of that was due to the replacement refs getting our guys into foul trouble early, it’s still REALLY bad. I mean, I know it’s Amar’e out there, but CHANNING FRYE?

Glad to hear the “real” refs are coming back, but our bigs need to work on their D and rebounding. Which leads me to my next question: Why didn’t Brockman get more burn?

On the plus side, it looks like Omri is going to be an absolute steal with the 23rd pick. And what a great mentality, begging to be given the chance to stop Amar’e. Not that I think he could have done it, but serious brownie points for that!

They play in Utah on Friday. I hope I get local TV for that one. I want to SEE a game!

Have a good week, Mr. Z.

The draft lottery has reinforced my belief that there are not enough bad words in the English language.

by LeaguePassAddict on Oct 21, 2009 6:59 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

We didn't need Brockman's rebounding and he wasn't able to defend Amare

plus I believe he got a shot blocked early.

Not sure about his defense either. He handed out some hard fouls when people got close to the basket, so they couldn’t get a shot off. But, PHO was making every FT so that wasn’t the greatest defensive strategy.

"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom

by HighTops on Oct 21, 2009 4:55 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Party at Ziller's house!

And I know where he hides the key to the meth liquor cabinet.

SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Oct 21, 2009 8:05 AM PDT reply actions   1 recs

Are you still selling seats?

Looking for tickets to the Kings v. Nets November 27th.

by BrooklynFan on Oct 21, 2009 8:35 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Here is the Tickets thread.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

Maybe the they should run public service announcements- starring Francisco Garcia and Sean May (as the expected mother), warning of the dangers of big blue balls. -- JJham15 10/13/09

by pookeyguru on Oct 21, 2009 9:21 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

LOL @ that

I’d rec that twice if I could.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

Maybe the they should run public service announcements- starring Francisco Garcia and Sean May (as the expected mother), warning of the dangers of big blue balls. -- JJham15 10/13/09

by pookeyguru on Oct 21, 2009 1:33 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Tickets are all gone

SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Oct 21, 2009 3:19 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Some bright spots

Tyreke and Casspi look to have an immediate impact from the draft. As LPA said, Casspi looks to be a steal as I thought myself when I saw him on the court. He still runs around like a rookie quite a bit – but with a purpose! and seems to be sucking up the coaching.
I’m calling it, Tyreke will have a triple double at some point this year, the kid is still getting his NBA legs under him. No pressure though Reke, just let it happen when it does. Sean May can shoot as was obvious to me in the limited minutes i saw in the GS and Portland games. Can he play some D? Muscle up in the post some? I hope so, we need it desperately.

Some shadows: Defense defense defense. I know its tough to guard a team like Phx at any point in the season and especially when so many on the roster havn’t really seen them push it relentlessly for 48 – but it was as TZ said an ominous replay of too many defensive efforts (or lack of them) from last season. We really need a pure defensive presence off the bench inside – Cisco will help outside when he eventually gets back. Casspi seems like he’ll get better out there like he’s getting better at everything else.
What was Ely signed for? Can he play some D at least or is he just done?

So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii

by lietothegirls on Oct 21, 2009 9:09 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Mason on defense?

Good point about defense. Wasn’t Mason brought on for his defensive prowess? If anything I would think that he is supposed to the pure defensive presence off the bench. That isn’t down low and I agree that we need it, but it seems like, given the score, Mason may not have played as well defensively as billed.

It sounds like it was a hyper upbeat game. Ely probably would have got his legs ran off in that game. I doubt he could have kept up… Probably need a low post defender who can run if we are going to play small and ultra fast.

by MustangMBS on Oct 21, 2009 11:18 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ely was just released per Kings.com

So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii

by lietothegirls on Oct 21, 2009 11:23 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ahh...

Seems that many were thinking the same thoughts.

by MustangMBS on Oct 21, 2009 11:25 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

He was never signed to a guaranteed contract lttg

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

Maybe the they should run public service announcements- starring Francisco Garcia and Sean May (as the expected mother), warning of the dangers of big blue balls. -- JJham15 10/13/09

by pookeyguru on Oct 21, 2009 11:34 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Umm

You can find that info on StR. It was posted a while back. Smith and Ely are basically just extra bodies for training camp.

Father of the "Natt this!" movement and Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order.

by Aykis16 on Oct 21, 2009 12:25 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm pretty sure MBS meant Ely Aykis

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

Maybe the they should run public service announcements- starring Francisco Garcia and Sean May (as the expected mother), warning of the dangers of big blue balls. -- JJham15 10/13/09

by pookeyguru on Oct 21, 2009 12:40 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Isn't that what I said?

Ely was basically just an extra body? Not a guaranteed roster spot?

Father of the "Natt this!" movement and Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order.

by Aykis16 on Oct 21, 2009 1:07 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

It's not the way it came off

it read to me that you thought MBS didn’t understand that Ely was on a non-guaranteed contract. No biggie.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

Maybe the they should run public service announcements- starring Francisco Garcia and Sean May (as the expected mother), warning of the dangers of big blue balls. -- JJham15 10/13/09

by pookeyguru on Oct 21, 2009 1:37 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

seemed the same to me as well

but no biggie as well.

So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii

by lietothegirls on Oct 21, 2009 3:31 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I can see this place is going to be fun come January....

I’m so already looking forward to that.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Oct 21, 2009 4:57 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well we do have...

I didn’t say that at least we still have piggie. Now that would have been truly bad taste.

by MustangMBS on Oct 22, 2009 6:59 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I got a text message from Kings.com about the release

So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii

by lietothegirls on Oct 21, 2009 1:02 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I was at the GS game and D. Mason was guarding Maggete all night...

Maggete still had a solid shooting night, but Mason was in his grill at every chance, if his defense is not up to par, it wasn’t because of a lack of effort.

by NorCal BillsFan on Oct 21, 2009 4:02 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Mason kept Hill in check

and may be responsible for frustrating Hill into gettting ejected.

"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom

by HighTops on Oct 21, 2009 5:02 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree that the defense wasn't great

but I disagree that it was the same as last season. Last season we would’ve given up 140+ points on 60% shooting and about 60 points on dunks and layups. I think someone posted that we actually outscored them in the paint. We also out rebounded them.

IMO this was an execution problem(too many fouls) where last season was an effort problem.

Ball movement ... is like jogging for most people: They do it occasionally, and it makes them happy. Then they go back to not doing it. - Henry Abbott

by Kfan in Korea on Oct 21, 2009 3:19 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I hope thats true

As I said, PHX is hard to prepare for when you’ve played them before (and played together more than a few games). Even then, sometimes that style just runs you off your feet and out of the gym.
A lesson or two learned

So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii

by lietothegirls on Oct 21, 2009 3:34 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Gotta agree with that (that last night was about a lack of execution)

It seemed very much like an execution problem. It also seemed like PW didn’t use Sergio enough instead of Beno because the game changing run came with Beno in the game. Amare Stoudemire & Channing Frye scored a lot of points, but that sort of happens sometimes.

Goran Dragic was a player the Kings couldn’t afford to let beat them, and he did. The Kings did some good things, and they hung around for a lot longer in the game than they did a year ago.

All that even being said, the Kings have matched up poorly with Amare Stoudemire because he see’s them and his eyes light up. (This is not me wanting Amare. Hell to the no on that one.) Anyway, it’s just pre-season and there were mitigating factors.

This team may lose a lot of games (55-65 maybe) again, but it won’t be with the lax laid down on the railroad tracks that we saw quite often last season.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

Maybe the they should run public service announcements- starring Francisco Garcia and Sean May (as the expected mother), warning of the dangers of big blue balls. -- JJham15 10/13/09

by pookeyguru on Oct 21, 2009 4:19 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Excellent observation

We stayed with them for 3 1/2 quarters, playing their game and at their pace.

Once Nash went out we should have slowed down our game, and not let Dragic beat us. As, I pointed out in the game thread, during the last 4 minutes of the 3rd quarter, we let Pho extend their 5 pt lead to 16 pts. It was right after PW, subed Beno for Tyreke at the PG. We got no assists and no one but Martin was able to score. While PHO was able to get the ball to their bigs and draw fouls and get open shots.

Sergio needs to backup Tyreke at the PG. Beno can shoot and run the high pick & roll but he isn’t consistent. And, he’s the worst defender at the guard position.

"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom

by HighTops on Oct 21, 2009 5:12 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Beno was Bad Bibby

poor defender and in his case, ineffective shooter.

Sergio needs to backup Tyreke at the PG. Beno can shoot and run the high pick & roll but he isn’t consistent. And, he’s the worst defender at the guard position
.

by betweentheeyes on Oct 21, 2009 7:42 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Tyreke at the Line?

Why isn’t Tyreke getting to the line as much as advertised? Only 17 attempts in 5 games?

I thought this was something he already excelled at. I’m guessing he’ll have to learn a few vet tricks to getting more calls.

by KeonClark on Oct 21, 2009 10:34 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Trick for getting more calls:

Don’t be a rookie

Never forget: I am a complete idiot

by Exhibit G on Oct 21, 2009 10:37 AM PDT up reply actions   2 recs

The Banana Man strikes again.....

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

Maybe the they should run public service announcements- starring Francisco Garcia and Sean May (as the expected mother), warning of the dangers of big blue balls. -- JJham15 10/13/09

by pookeyguru on Oct 21, 2009 10:55 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Once the refs see he's not being treated like a rookie by the players

he may start getting calls earlier than most
(maybe)

So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii

by lietothegirls on Oct 21, 2009 11:24 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hopefully you're right

Never forget: I am a complete idiot

by Exhibit G on Oct 21, 2009 12:50 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

good call on that

the other fortunate is that he is a powerful strong kid and can probably handle more punishment than most. Further, he is even keeled which the refs will respect.

by betweentheeyes on Oct 21, 2009 1:17 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

which means that JT is still getting treated like a rook

"We are in the business of kicking butt and business is very, very good." - Charles Barkley

by Bluejohn on Oct 21, 2009 4:04 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

then there is this gem from the Game Thread #2
They’re all replacement refs to JT

from andysims

I don’t know that you can YET blame the refs for JT being foul prone. Let’s see what happens a few weeks into the season after the “non-replacement” refs have a some time to get back into whatever groove they have had in the past.

by betweentheeyes on Oct 21, 2009 7:52 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Too fast, but they haven't given up

Tyreke gets by is defenders, and that is plural cause it takes more than one, and they just can’t stop him, but that said they haven’t given up. When teams realize that they can’t stop him they will probably start fouling him as much as they do Martin.

by MustangMBS on Oct 21, 2009 11:27 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

To add to lttg's bright spots comments

the stat lines were very good ,but as TZ points out, the attitude of Coach Westphal is refreshing. I believe he is a very positive influence here in Sacramento, and is amplified by players like Omri, who is now competing for favorite new King along with Hoss Mancakes and of course Tyreke Evans (is it “Havoc”?).

Let’s look at this young team: JT, 2nd year, Spencer 21 yrs old, and now Omri, Evans, Sergio and Jockman. Throw in Kevin Martin and we don’t talk of much else (I don’t know where to put DontĂ©). That is 8 guys and everyone else is “so what:?”. This team inspires a view from the bottom that looks up.

Tom Ziller we will miss you. Come back soon.

by betweentheeyes on Oct 21, 2009 1:28 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I agree

We’ve got four core guys (Evans, Omri, JT and Spencer) who are only going to get better as they get older, more experienced and more used to one another. And Kevin can play with them. We just need a stud defensive big man to sit Spencer on the bench, and a stud perimeter scorer off the bench.

Life is every mammal's journey from very very wet to very very dry.

by Holmdel on Oct 21, 2009 1:34 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

inside first

MUCH easier to get an outside guy and I think Cisco and Casspi will be fine for now.

So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii

by lietothegirls on Oct 21, 2009 2:22 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Or, a stud defensive big man to sit JT on the bench.

As I pointed out before, in JT’s 20/20 game, he only got 4/4 while Spencer on the bench. So, don’t discount Spencer’s importance to JT’s success. And, JT fouled out of the PHO game. So, it’s still up in the air as to who of the two will end up having the better career. Especially since JT is so much older than Hawes.

"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom

by HighTops on Oct 21, 2009 5:22 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Agree

and I’m sure everyone would agree that a 3 big man rotation of Hawes, JT, and probably next year’s pick (Favors?) would be pretty awesome

The future begins now...

by eduardo_m7 on Oct 21, 2009 7:16 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Have I convinced you this early that a big man should be the pick?

Aye Carumba, I must only use these powers for evil….

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Oct 21, 2009 8:49 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Haha, not really

Ask Aykis, I mentioned this to him while chatting on the PASPN fantasy game a while ago. To me, this next draft is where we pick the star big. As much as I like JT and Hawes, I think there’s a good chance one of them is either gonna go through trade or is just not going to be our starter.

I know it’s very early but Tyreke looks pretty special and along with Speed, that’s a really good backcourt. It’s time to address the frontcourt’s deficiencies.

The future begins now...

by eduardo_m7 on Oct 21, 2009 8:58 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

:) Good

(I’m glad I’m not the only one who see’s that.)

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Oct 21, 2009 9:02 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

100% agree

I also agree with that. We clearly have deficits frontcourt and must do something. I don’t know if we can wait for the draft though…

by MustangMBS on Oct 21, 2009 9:12 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

What's the hurry though Mustang??

We may think we’ve seen a lot from JT and Hawes but we really haven’t. Let’s see what we have and go from there. Remember, I’m writing this after also saying that there;s a good chance one of the two is not our future starter.

I understand is hard to be patient but I don’t get why we some think we need to finish this puzzle right now.

The future begins now...

by eduardo_m7 on Oct 21, 2009 9:19 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

They need to compete right?

Why wait for something that might not happen. The draft is a crap shoot. Why wait if the draft might not be the answer. Waiting a whole season on a maybe isn’t a good enough answer in my opinion.

I understand that this team isn’t going to win the playoffs or anything, but they need to at least compete in the games they play in… If they can’t given the current lack of bigs then they need to get them some bigs. The sooner the better.

by MustangMBS on Oct 21, 2009 9:38 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

They need an impact player up front

I doubt they can survive without that in the long run. The easiest way to get that is to be high in the draft next year. This team doesn’t have the assets to get a major impact player up front at any point during this season.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Oct 21, 2009 9:50 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I understand the need for bigs

But you can’t compare the bigs we could get right now (10th man, end of the bench guy) with what we could get in the draft. And as much as it is a crap shoot, the Kings are pretty much guaranteed another top 5 pick next year and that’s where you get the big time players. Not being pessimistic (about the top 5 pick), just realistic.

If what you are asking for is an end of the bench guy who could help with some of the interior defense problems, I’m all for it, but who is that guy?? I don’t believe we are going to get anyone through free agency who’s really going to make a difference on that department, not at this stage. And to get someone through trade that could make an impact and show promise for the future we are going to need to move more than one piece. Should we do that when we don’t even know what we have yet? I say no. To me, we gotta follow the Blazers and Thunders example. We are finally getting enough young talent, why try to rush things when we are nowhere close to being a finished product.

Maybe you had something different in mind and I’m definitely willing to listen to it

The future begins now...

by eduardo_m7 on Oct 21, 2009 9:52 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

I'm not worthy ed

I’m not worthy. :)

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Oct 21, 2009 9:54 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

The answer is simple

1) In FA 2010, sign Chris Bosh
+
2) Draft an all-star SF
=
3) 2012 NBA Championship

I’m now accepting GM of the Year nominations. Do you think Stern will send me a 2 by 4 foot check for a million bucks or is that only for the Nobel Peace prize?

by BrooklynFan on Oct 22, 2009 5:55 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Good luck with acccomplishing that Brooklyn

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Oct 22, 2009 8:01 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Facetious?

What’s that?

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Oct 22, 2009 8:45 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I wish I was that smart

So no.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Oct 22, 2009 9:11 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Me too

But it will never happen outside of the video game realm. I’d rather have Derrick Favors at this point. More upside, a lot cheaper.

Father of the "Natt this!" movement and Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order.

by Aykis16 on Oct 22, 2009 8:31 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

More upside?

Really? Cheaper for sure but Bosh is a proven 20/10 good character guy and he’s only 26, would be in his prime by 2012.

Then again I haven’t seen Favors play. Do you think it would be worth it to go younger at this point? He’d be a sophomore by 2012.

by BrooklynFan on Oct 22, 2009 8:49 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Bosh isn't likely to get much better

Also, I just don’t see him as a franchise guy. Yet he will demand franchise guy money, and someone will give it to him, and it will most likely be a destination preferable to Sacramento.

As for continuing to go younger, if you have someone like Geoff Petrie picking in the top 5 of the draft, he’s probably going to find a superstar. And the best part is, someone like Favors would be cheap for 4 years and could come in and have an instant impact. But lets let him play some college ball first.

Here’s some video of him so you can see his game though:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xO4hLIP6-ic

Father of the "Natt this!" movement and Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order.

by Aykis16 on Oct 22, 2009 9:05 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

A man among boys

Will definitely be interesting to follow his college season

by BrooklynFan on Oct 22, 2009 9:10 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Who's the Man playing with the midgets

"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom

by HighTops on Oct 22, 2009 3:40 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'd rather have Favors

Bosh plays too much on the outside for my liking.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Oct 22, 2009 8:45 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Theoretically

I suppose you could be correct. Realistically, doesn’t Spencer Hawes piss this place off enough already?

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Oct 22, 2009 9:00 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

funny

and true. although bosh doesn’t take a lot of threes. You may know better than I though how his inside outside shot breaks down and how he uses the two different games to manipulate defenses, e.g. what percentage of outside shots does Bosh get assisted and how many shots in the paint does Toronto get in games when Bosh shoots from the outside, etc.

by BrooklynFan on Oct 22, 2009 9:05 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

According to 82games.com

Bosh plays “outside” 64% of the time compared to 36% inside.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Oct 22, 2009 9:20 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I see what you mean

With the team only scoring 27% of their points from in close.

by BrooklynFan on Oct 22, 2009 9:27 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

And by comparison

Last season, Hawes played inside 48% of the time. As opposed to the overall team average of 27%.

Yeah, Hawes isn’t not necessarily the greatest problem this team has at the moment.

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Oct 22, 2009 9:40 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

more PFs?

Don’t we have enough PFs?

by MustangMBS on Oct 22, 2009 11:48 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not good ones.

Father of the "Natt this!" movement and Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order.

by Aykis16 on Oct 22, 2009 11:50 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

JT is cool by me

I think JT is only going to get better. I was thinking we need a C who is a low post presence. Just not sure Spence will be enough.

by MustangMBS on Oct 22, 2009 11:54 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I like JT just fine

But championship teams typically have three all stars on the court at once.

And I wonder how small we can go with these conversation chains

by BrooklynFan on Oct 22, 2009 11:57 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Let's find out

"I'm too weird ta live but much too rare ta die"

by aKingisBored on Oct 22, 2009 11:59 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Our Center does that and no one like it

"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom

by HighTops on Oct 22, 2009 3:41 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

The funny thing is

That might do it. We seems so far away but 2 big pieces and a year or two for our young’un to percolate would make us pretty deep.
(I don’t know if Bosh is the piece but . . .)

So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii

by lietothegirls on Oct 22, 2009 8:27 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Bigs

We got enough PFs. We need a big C who can bang it out down low. Otherwise we are going to creamed by any team with such a player. Either that or we play small and run the legs off of the bigs…

But then we got issues with depth at other places in the line up. Beno is not a transition PG so Sergio could play more…

May be beyond my limited understanding of the game to really address well.

by MustangMBS on Oct 22, 2009 11:51 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

We need one more dynamic player for sure

and, of course, everything else to go right.

Under the “everything goes right” scenario:

Tyreke becomes a playmaker on offense.
Kevin stays ridiculous because he’s not the focus.
Garcia is the start of your bench.
Spencer/JT combined give you 60ish minutes a night of competant play by bigs.

What we need then is either a Small Forward, that is dynamic and a good shooter. I’m probably talking about someone at least low-level All-Star good. Combine that with one more cometant big guy

or

A big guy like everyone wants above, that demands a double team you can run offense through and hopefully is a good defender. Combine that with a SF that makes open shots and plays good defense (maybe Casspi), and that team is pretty good.

Professional Hyperbole Slayer

by ForThree on Oct 22, 2009 11:58 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

You need to scare teams inside

I just don’t think JTs hustle or Hawes shooting touch will do that.
Like I said, if you want to be a real contender rather than just competant and competetive.

So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii

by lietothegirls on Oct 22, 2009 12:29 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I disagree

We don’ need to “scare” anyone. I don’t think Duncan is scary, he’s just really skilled. Same with Gasol. I don’t think Ilaguskas was scary for last year’s Cavs. What they all have is great players. We just need to get better talent.

That being said, I think we can all agree that we need to get better upfront, we just disagree in when and where we are going to get this player.

The future begins now...

by eduardo_m7 on Oct 22, 2009 12:37 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Pretty much it...

Though I think some would argue that Spence isn’t going to develop into a complete C, thus we need somebody else.

Others would disagree and say he can get there or that we don’t need a traditional low post C. That he will do fine by dragging away the other teams C and thus open up lanes for Tyreke.

Still others would disagree and say JT should play C..

I think we can all agree to disagree.

by MustangMBS on Oct 22, 2009 1:06 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree

having an inside player that is real good is more of a normal template, but examples of very good or even championship teams exist that didn’t have dominant inside players.

Professional Hyperbole Slayer

by ForThree on Oct 22, 2009 1:08 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Who besides the Bulls?

Didn’t have an All-Star Caliber inside player? I think that was an aberration that shows just how much better MJ was than Kobe is.

So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii

by lietothegirls on Oct 22, 2009 1:13 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Rasheed Wallace is a questionable “inside player”.

the old school Pistons with Laimbeer, Salley, James Edwards was their post up option.

Pre-Shaw Phoenix, sure Amare was an All-Star, but he’s only an inside guy in that he finishes alley-oops well.

Rik-Smits and Antonio…can’t remember his last name were the inside guys on Reggie Miller’s Pacer teams.

Not that these guys aren’t good, but some of them aren’t traditional franchise big guys either.

Professional Hyperbole Slayer

by ForThree on Oct 22, 2009 1:21 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Antonio Davis?

The future begins now...

by eduardo_m7 on Oct 22, 2009 1:34 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

thank you

I could see Spencer/JT being Rik Smits/Antonio Davis eventually.

Professional Hyperbole Slayer

by ForThree on Oct 22, 2009 1:38 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Championship teams

not almost.
Wallace a dominant defender (All-Star), Rodman and Sally pretty dominant defenders I’d say – All-Stars.
I should amend to say ‘Dominant against most in thier position’ and that usually means All-Star. Not sure I see a lot of All-Star games in our guys’ futures. Maybe 3rd string (maybe)

So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii

by lietothegirls on Oct 22, 2009 1:39 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

there is also...

Just because its never been done doesn’t make it impossible.

Evans
Martin
A Paul Pierce like 3
JT/Hawes
A Camby like big
A good bench

might be a contender. All I’m saying is, I don’t know that you need a 24/12 big guy to contend. Do I want one? hell yes! but if my choice in the draft is Paul Pierce clone or Marcus Camby close, I don’t think choosing Pierce is a given as a mistake.

Professional Hyperbole Slayer

by ForThree on Oct 22, 2009 1:42 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't want to centend just one year

because everything goes our way. (Indiana etc)
I want to build a team that can contend for several years in a row.
There’ s a kind of team that makes that more likely.
All-Star inside/All-Star outside + at least one marginal All-Star

So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii

by lietothegirls on Oct 22, 2009 1:57 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think we may have two of those

but being able to score inside and Defend inside when jumpshots aren’t falling is critical in the playoffs (see Cleveland)

So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii

by lietothegirls on Oct 22, 2009 2:06 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hope Omri is it at SF

Have to say that given Omri’s previous performance he could be the guy at SF. Time will tell, but I am VERY encouraged by what I have seen and heard so far.

He may end being the steal of the draft.

by MustangMBS on Oct 22, 2009 12:35 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

There's reasonable optimism

and then there’s hoping the late 1st rounder that has had a couple good pre-season games will be a solid NBA starter.

Let’s just slooooow down, we’re all hopeful, but he hasn’t even scored an actual point yet.

Professional Hyperbole Slayer

by ForThree on Oct 22, 2009 1:10 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

2010 draft

It also looks to be a really good PF draft according to nbadraft.net: http://www.nbadraft.net/node/13630

by DustyG on Oct 22, 2009 8:36 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

good - but there's always one guy

(usually)

So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii

by lietothegirls on Oct 22, 2009 1:23 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I loved PW's comment about Omri after the game

PW said that they were talking about the coverage on Amare, and Omri piped up " Coach lead me guard him, I’ll stop him". You’ve got to love youthful enthusiasm.

"If you don't have anything good to say, LIE" - Mom

by HighTops on Oct 21, 2009 5:16 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

very cool

So imitate the action of the tiger!.
Lend the eye a terrible aspect
- and teach them how to war!
Henry V iii

by lietothegirls on Oct 21, 2009 6:11 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

My new best case scenario for the season:

Tyreke: ROY.
Omri: All Rookie 2nd Team
Brockman: All Rookie 3rd Team (hypothetically).

by sdfd on Oct 21, 2009 6:26 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Is there really a 3rd team?

At that point, isn’t it just “Everyone Gets A Trophy Day?”

Rocks are free, and slingshots easily stolen.

by andy sims on Oct 21, 2009 6:57 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

in the NBA version of T-Ball
At that point, isn’t it just "Everyone Gets A Trophy Day?"

by betweentheeyes on Oct 21, 2009 7:53 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ha!

The all 2nd round team, pick 30-40 division.

SACTOWN ROYALTY - Try our thick creamy shakes!

by section214 on Oct 21, 2009 7:58 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

no

hence the (hypothetically)
I think Thorpe made one last year. JT was on it. Solid class, that 2008 one.

by sdfd on Oct 21, 2009 9:12 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

What difference would that make??

Why would we try to fix things right now when we are not even close to contending for the playoffs? This type of moves are done when we are close to achieving something and we need some extra pieces.

Now, if we were to get a young player that could help with our interior defense, that’d be a different story

The future begins now...

by eduardo_m7 on Oct 21, 2009 8:41 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Why would the Clippers bother doing that ed?

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Oct 21, 2009 8:58 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

That too of course

But I just look at it from our point of view. Why bother with this type of moves?

Patience, patience, patience…

The future begins now...

by eduardo_m7 on Oct 21, 2009 9:00 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

82-0 or I'm quitting being a Kings fan

That’s where I stand and I refuse to budge!

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on Oct 21, 2009 9:02 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Kmart

I’m not surprised he’s hardly fouled out. You have to be near the guy you are guarding to pick up fouls.

"The basis for winning an NBA title is having a superstar in his prime. Not an all-star, or a bunch of all-stars, but a superstar."

by coolcatreportdotcom on Oct 22, 2009 2:45 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Who cares about Kenyon Martin?

That’s another team’s problem.

What the hell is Brett Favre doing here?

by otis29 on Oct 22, 2009 4:25 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Any game thread 2nite?

What about radio or tv?

by amonk81 on Oct 22, 2009 4:28 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

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